Never thought I would be posting to a site like this

[eddie_d_2000]

Eddie, I have no additional advise to what's been said here, other than, be prepared for tough decisions.

 

My (ex)wife was found out, she was slow to break it off, came clean, etc, etc, etc. I didn't want to listen to people that talked about the "D" word, I had trouble getting my mind around the fact that my marriage would end this way. But then someone told me, set up your boundries, when they're crossed, cut your losses. There's worse things than getting divorced.

 

Best of luck.

 

Yep, I guess you could say I have set my boundaries, I got to prepare myself for the worst, its been rough I must say.

[eddie_d_2000]

Eddie, I have no additional advise to what's been said here, other than, be prepared for tough decisions.

 

My (ex)wife was found out, she was slow to break it off, came clean, etc, etc, etc. I didn't want to listen to people that talked about the "D" word, I had trouble getting my mind around the fact that my marriage would end this way. But then someone told me, set up your boundries, when they're crossed, cut your losses. There's worse things than getting divorced.

 

Best of luck.

 

So what happened with your ex-wife? Did she find yet another man? What signs did you see that tipped you off she was?

[redtail]

So what happened with your ex-wife? Did she find yet another man? What signs did you see that tipped you off she was?

 

Good question. No, it was the same guy, she just got better at hiding it. She said there was NC and the emails were all removed and there were no calls to/from him at work. Sex (between her and I) was back to normal and I was somewhat appeased. I had been going to counseling, she went once and thought it was a waste of time, "we can work this out" she said.

 

So one evening she left her journal out, by mistake. I read it and all the same sh** was going on, very detailed stuff about her married OM and her and the feelings she was having about their continued encounters. So, without "showing my cards", I went and asked her, so, when was the last time you saw this guy? She lied and said it has been NC from when she last told me. Okay, so when was the last time you spoke to him, I asked. She again lied and said it hasn't been since she promised she wouldn't. She asked why I brought this back up and I said, I read your journal, does that change your answer? Her only answer was, how could you? She was caught and she knew it. I kicked her out of the house that night and she told me she was going to go stay at a hotel for the evening, she and this guy got together instead.

 

The lying never quit, once I found out the first time, she just got better at hiding. After I found out the second (last) time, she joked and said leaving her journal out must have been "like a serial killer that wanted to get caught." Interesting analogy...

[eddie_d_2000]

Good question. No, it was the same guy, she just got better at hiding it. She said there was NC and the emails were all removed and there were no calls to/from him at work. Sex (between her and I) was back to normal and I was somewhat appeased. I had been going to counseling, she went once and thought it was a waste of time, "we can work this out" she said.

 

So one evening she left her journal out, by mistake. I read it and all the same sh** was going on, very detailed stuff about her married OM and her and the feelings she was having about their continued encounters. So, without "showing my cards", I went and asked her, so, when was the last time you saw this guy? She lied and said it has been NC from when she last told me. Okay, so when was the last time you spoke to him, I asked. She again lied and said it hasn't been since she promised she wouldn't. She asked why I brought this back up and I said, I read your journal, does that change your answer? Her only answer was, how could you? She was caught and she knew it. I kicked her out of the house that night and she told me she was going to go stay at a hotel for the evening, she and this guy got together instead.

 

The lying never quit, once I found out the first time, she just got better at hiding. After I found out the second (last) time, she joked and said leaving her journal out must have been "like a serial killer that wanted to get caught." Interesting analogy...

 

Wow, I feel for ya man, I really do. My wife doesn't keep a journal, I have pretty much shut everything down, but I wouldn't put it past her to get another cell phone or turn to some other website or something. I am not sure she was really into one guy tho, from reading her phone logs, 3 or 4 guys were calling her and she was having lengthy conversations with em, especially the one guy from CA. I know that all these guys came from the same game, which has been shut down, which was a big step. I will just have to see what plays out in the days and weeks ahead.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Wow, I feel for ya man, I really do. My wife doesn't keep a journal, I have pretty much shut everything down, but I wouldn't put it past her to get another cell phone or turn to some other website or something. I am not sure she was really into one guy tho, from reading her phone logs, 3 or 4 guys were calling her and she was having lengthy conversations with em, especially the one guy from CA. I know that all these guys came from the same game, which has been shut down, which was a big step. I will just have to see what plays out in the days and weeks ahead.

 

 

You're kidding yourself, this is far from over...... She'll call from a pay phone, while you're at work or out..... She'll use the library computer or go to a cafe..... So much has come out in so little time and you seem so oblivious to it all and think prayer will help.... As people are closer to home (not Ca), the danger and opportunity increases.

[eddie_d_2000]

You're kidding yourself, this is far from over...... She'll call from a pay phone, while you're at work or out..... She'll use the library computer or go to a cafe..... So much has come out in so little time and you seem so oblivious to it all and think prayer will help.... As people are closer to home (not Ca), the danger and opportunity increases.

 

Understood...I am still on watch, I don't want to be, but I understand the odds are against me.

[redtail]

Understood...I am still on watch, I don't want to be, but I understand the odds are against me.

 

Understand Eddie, that most of the people here that have been on the sharp end of an affair, do not wish this on anyone, and I for one, hope upon hope that your situation is different.

 

But the signs are all there...

[TaraMaiden]

eddie, let me give you an angle you might not have considered yet:

 

Desire, is natural.

Commitment is a choice.

She made a definitive and solid choice to NOT be faithful.

But she had several guys on strings and this could have gone in one or more different ways...

 

Now, it's an opinion of mine, that this flagrant flirting and diversion from her marriage means one thing - she was getting (or at least desperately looking for) elsewhere, what she wasn't getting from you.

 

Whilst we've all been studiously focussing on her actions, and her betrayal of you, and what we feel would be the best way to handle this - where were you lacking?

She married you in joy and willingness. you vowed to be together, and you both made promises you fully intended to keep.

So what changed her mind?

Where did it all go sour for her?

Why did you stop being her everything, and all she needed?

 

I'm not trying to shift blame here - hell's bells, she is slapped-up guilty of really really foo-ing up big time....

 

But people have a 50% responsibility in a relationship to maintain an effort to love, cherish, support and 'nourish' each other in the way the other person most needs.

It's a two-way street, and much as she is completely guilty of depriving you of her love, attention and 'nourishment'... I'm just wondering if you've reached a point of asking her what she sought elsewhere, and why....?

 

What I'm suggesting may not turn this around, or make it salvageable.... it may even carry risks that increase the chances of you going your separate ways.

But, it's a learning curve, give it that.....

[Owl]

Tara is right, Eddie.

 

Not that you have ANY responsibility for your wife's choice to do what she's done...but that you have responsibility to make changes on your side to improve the marriage.

 

In my first post to you, I'd suggested you check out the free information on the marriagebuilders website (BUT AVOID THE FORUM THERE!).

 

There's a lot of good information there and in the book "Surviving an Affair" by the same author.

 

You should be in 'plan A' right now, which is twofold. The first is what you've been doing...maintaining pressure on her to end her affair(s). Exposure is a key tool, as well as doing the 'snooping' that we've talked about. The other part of plan A...the "carrot" part if you will, is making positive changes in yourself...for yourself. You need to identify the areas where you weren't contributing to the marriage, and fix them. You need to make improvements in YOURSELF.

 

Also, look for something called the "emotional needs questionairre" on the mb website. Insist that you and your wife sit down and fill it out. And, do it TWICE, each. One time, fill it out for yourself, but don't share it initally with your spouse. The second time, fill it out from what you perceive as your spouse's viewpoint. List out what you believe are her top emotional needs, in order.

 

Then sit down and compare each other's lists. See how close she got to knowing your EN's...and see how well you knew hers. Then sit and discuss ways for BOTH of you to improve on meeting each other's EN's.

 

It's a really good tool.

 

Take responsibility for your part of the marriage...but don't accept any blame for her choice to do the things she's done.

 

Make the changes you need to in order to improve your part of the marriage, and to make the marriage a more attractive and safe place for both you and your wife.

 

As far as her continuing the affair...it's not only a risk...this early in the situation, it's a likelihood. That's why you need to snoop. You need to help her overcome her addiction...just like searching a drug addicts room for his drug of choice.

 

Have the two of you started marriage counseling (MC) yet?

 

Have you worked out a plan to help her be more accountable to you...to help her PROVE to you that she's ended her affair(s)?

[eddie_d_2000]

Tara is right, Eddie.

 

Not that you have ANY responsibility for your wife's choice to do what she's done...but that you have responsibility to make changes on your side to improve the marriage.

 

In my first post to you, I'd suggested you check out the free information on the marriagebuilders website (BUT AVOID THE FORUM THERE!).

 

There's a lot of good information there and in the book "Surviving an Affair" by the same author.

 

You should be in 'plan A' right now, which is twofold. The first is what you've been doing...maintaining pressure on her to end her affair(s). Exposure is a key tool, as well as doing the 'snooping' that we've talked about. The other part of plan A...the "carrot" part if you will, is making positive changes in yourself...for yourself. You need to identify the areas where you weren't contributing to the marriage, and fix them. You need to make improvements in YOURSELF.

 

Also, look for something called the "emotional needs questionairre" on the mb website. Insist that you and your wife sit down and fill it out. And, do it TWICE, each. One time, fill it out for yourself, but don't share it initally with your spouse. The second time, fill it out from what you perceive as your spouse's viewpoint. List out what you believe are her top emotional needs, in order.

 

Then sit down and compare each other's lists. See how close she got to knowing your EN's...and see how well you knew hers. Then sit and discuss ways for BOTH of you to improve on meeting each other's EN's.

 

It's a really good tool.

 

Take responsibility for your part of the marriage...but don't accept any blame for her choice to do the things she's done.

 

Make the changes you need to in order to improve your part of the marriage, and to make the marriage a more attractive and safe place for both you and your wife.

 

As far as her continuing the affair...it's not only a risk...this early in the situation, it's a likelihood. That's why you need to snoop. You need to help her overcome her addiction...just like searching a drug addicts room for his drug of choice.

 

Have the two of you started marriage counseling (MC) yet?

 

Have you worked out a plan to help her be more accountable to you...to help her PROVE to you that she's ended her affair(s)?

 

I like the questionnaire, I am having her fill one out as well, I hope to be able to go over it tonight, thank you for this.

[eddie_d_2000]

What is hopeful about the questionnaire is that my wife and I have already talked about most of those points on the questionnaire. There will be a few questions that will bring about some good talks tho, so it will be helpful.

[eddie_d_2000]

Tara is right, Eddie.

 

Have you worked out a plan to help her be more accountable to you...to help her PROVE to you that she's ended her affair(s)?

 

Tell me please what kind of plan I could work out to help her prove to me that she's ended her affair(s). This has been one of the biggest things for me.

[eddie_d_2000]

eddie, let me give you an angle you might not have considered yet:

 

Desire, is natural.

Commitment is a choice.

She made a definitive and solid choice to NOT be faithful.

But she had several guys on strings and this could have gone in one or more different ways...

 

Now, it's an opinion of mine, that this flagrant flirting and diversion from her marriage means one thing - she was getting (or at least desperately looking for) elsewhere, what she wasn't getting from you.

 

Whilst we've all been studiously focussing on her actions, and her betrayal of you, and what we feel would be the best way to handle this - where were you lacking?

She married you in joy and willingness. you vowed to be together, and you both made promises you fully intended to keep.

So what changed her mind?

Where did it all go sour for her?

Why did you stop being her everything, and all she needed?

 

I'm not trying to shift blame here - hell's bells, she is slapped-up guilty of really really foo-ing up big time....

 

But people have a 50% responsibility in a relationship to maintain an effort to love, cherish, support and 'nourish' each other in the way the other person most needs.

It's a two-way street, and much as she is completely guilty of depriving you of her love, attention and 'nourishment'... I'm just wondering if you've reached a point of asking her what she sought elsewhere, and why....?

 

What I'm suggesting may not turn this around, or make it salvageable.... it may even carry risks that increase the chances of you going your separate ways.

But, it's a learning curve, give it that.....

 

Well, I know I was definitely lacking in the romance dept, when we go out, she would reach to hold my hand and I would maybe hold it for a minute and let it go. I would tell her I love her in the morning, but never when we went to bed, all the little things that couples do I didn't do. We never went out together without the kids, trips were more like routines, we really drifted apart and she was getting in a rut as was I. Our wedding anniversary would consist of just going to a restaurant and going home, nothing special, just felt like a trip out to eat. I got to admit, I was more of a friend than a lover, but a lot of this has changed after I found out she was doing the dirty talk. It got bad for me when I found out about the affair, but I halfway expected this affair. I do believe she is sorry for what she has done and wants to fix things.

[Owl]

Tell me please what kind of plan I could work out to help her prove to me that she's ended her affair(s). This has been one of the biggest things for me.

 

It starts with her confessing exactly how she "got away with it". Explaining all the steps she took to hide it from you, and then working with you to identify ways that you can "check up" on her to verify she's not resumed or started new.

 

There are no garauntees...but it's a shot. She may or may not be honest...but the more you know, the more you can look out for.

[eddie_d_2000]

It starts with her confessing exactly how she "got away with it". Explaining all the steps she took to hide it from you, and then working with you to identify ways that you can "check up" on her to verify she's not resumed or started new.

 

There are no garauntees...but it's a shot. She may or may not be honest...but the more you know, the more you can look out for.

 

Well, all that is pretty much out in the open, she was simply calling and meeting him in the game. She told me she was taking a trip to meet some women photographers in Los Angeles and to go to Disneyland and half of that was true, except she was meeting him in Los Angeles. I think we are past that point. I think I am finally in that "checking up" phase where all her methods are either shut down or I have full access to it.

[eddie_d_2000]

One other nice benefit I have with her is that I have instant messenger and she is on there as well, so I can pretty much see if she goes idle for a long period of time, so I have a good idea if she leaves the house or does something else that I may not know about.

[Owl]

Did you get a keylogger installed on her computer? Have you gone into her IM and enabled logging at least, so that you can read the chats she has with others later?

 

My wife did this too...but she was still chatting OM at the same time as well.

 

If you can't get a software keylogger, they do make hardware ones that will catch her keystrokes at least...they attach to the computer as a pass-thru to connect her keyboard to the computer.

 

Has she shown any signs of the "withdrawl" that I discussed earlier? Any anger at all for having to "change"?

[eddie_d_2000]

Did you get a keylogger installed on her computer? Have you gone into her IM and enabled logging at least, so that you can read the chats she has with others later?

 

My wife did this too...but she was still chatting OM at the same time as well.

 

If you can't get a software keylogger, they do make hardware ones that will catch her keystrokes at least...they attach to the computer as a pass-thru to connect her keyboard to the computer.

 

Has she shown any signs of the "withdrawl" that I discussed earlier? Any anger at all for having to "change"?

 

I don't have to worry about the IM, she only has me and a couple of women on there, she just uses it mainly to leave me messages about supper or whatever.

 

I don't need the keylogger yet, I can see her history, so I know full well if she is going to a site that is not work-related.

 

At this point the only thing she could do is leave the house and go to another computer somewhere else, which I would have to have someone follow her to see what she is doing. She does care for our 3 year old at home during the day so that is going to make it hard for her to do a lot of things, but I understand it won't be impossible. I think if she tries to do something else, I will know about it.

[eddie_d_2000]

Has she shown any signs of the "withdrawl" that I discussed earlier? Any anger at all for having to "change"?

 

I haven't really seen any signs of withdrawal yet that I can see. I told her that she could come to me if she needed anything or just needed someone to talk to, to which she acted like everything is good now and she is over it. That did concern me and keeps me in the investigative mode for sure.

[Trojan John]

There are many, many ways to hide computer activity and delete damning history or logs. I don't know how technically inclined she is, but I would get a keylogger anyway were I you.

[eddie_d_2000]

Well, we are making good progress guys, she actually is exhibiting a sign of depression Owl, she is eating more, which isn't a good thing, but at least shows she is trying to work thru it.

 

We filled out the questionnaire and we pretty much knew what each other wanted and expected, but we have had a couple of months to work on that now. If we had taken the questionnaire before I found out about anything, it would have been a very revealing tool for us. We were still able to learn some things about each other anyways so it was a successful endeavor.

[Owl]

OK, so work on meeting each other's ENs going forward.

 

When is your MC scheduled to start? That's going to be critical in this as well.

 

A couple of other thoughts. One of the good things from MB that you should consider is the "15 hours/week". The belief is that in order to maintain a healthy relationship, a married couple should spend a MINIMUM of 15 hours/week in quality time with each other. Not sitting watching TV, not taking care of the kids...but active "fun" time that is spent bonding with each other. Date nights, game nights, etc... NO ONLINE GAMING Basically time for the two of you to start courting each other again. You might consider this.

 

During that time, there is NO relationship talk, no talk about the marriage, the cheating, the addictions, etc... Only positive, fun activities and discussions.

 

Now, that time is kinda hard to do well during the first stages of recovery, but there's a trick to it.

 

Schedule your '15 hours'. And, schedule time each night to have the "affair/relationship discussions" as well. Set a limit...an hour, or a half hour to discuss all the stuff about the affair/recover/marriage/etc... Start keeping a discussion journal, and document what's discussed. When the time limit is up...write down anything left you still wanted to discuss, and use that as your starting point for the next night's conversation. Do this when there are no distractions (kids, outside activities, etc...). Have some kind of "treat" waiting for the both of you for after the discussion...a bit of ice cream, coffee...something to reward yourselves for the tough activity. AND END ANY DISCUSSIONS OF THOSE ISSUES WHEN THE TIMER GOES OFF.

 

These are a couple of tools that helped my wife and I.

[65tr6]

Well, we are making good progress guys,

 

Make sure there is total NC.

 

Start open/honest talk about the A. Get everything out now. You may want to set specific time for this. May be 1 hour a day. And if things get out of hand, you take timeout. You only talk about the A during this time.

 

Change your behavior, if you have not done so already. You mentioned about filling out EN questionairrie. That is good. Also do the love buster one. I think this is even more important. Eliminating the love busting behavior from either side.

 

You are doing good eddie, you just started the journey. It is very delicate/vulnerable in the beginning stages because any time there is contact, the clock is reset. You start all over again.

[eddie_d_2000]

Well, I have been feeling way better myself, I came home a little earlier yesterday cause I knew she wouldn't be home so I could check her history, I didn't see anything outside of the ordinary. She's not going to be able to see that guy again because of the distance and the crazy story she would have to come up with, so thats a good thing for our marriage. She could still have the potential to go see him, so I will have to stay on my toes for quite a while.

[eddie_d_2000]

Make sure there is total NC.

 

Start open/honest talk about the A. Get everything out now. You may want to set specific time for this. May be 1 hour a day. And if things get out of hand, you take timeout. You only talk about the A during this time.

 

Change your behavior, if you have not done so already. You mentioned about filling out EN questionairrie. That is good. Also do the love buster one. I think this is even more important. Eliminating the love busting behavior from either side.

 

You are doing good eddie, you just started the journey. It is very delicate/vulnerable in the beginning stages because any time there is contact, the clock is reset. You start all over again.

 

We have started an open/honest talk about the affair, she appears to be coming fully clean with me on it, but she was pretty much doing this after I found out, this has been more for my benefit than hers. She is saying that after his wife found out they both agreed to keep things more on a friendship level and just help each other repair their own respective marriages. She did tell me that now that I have cut everything off it feels like she has lost several friends, and one good friend. She said they have been talking about things that she and i have been working on and things that he and his wife are working on. She seems pretty honest about it. I asked her if his wife was ok with them still talking and she said that he told her to do the *67 before he calls her cause she found out through the phone bill, but my wife hasn't said a thing to him for over a week now, so I have learned a lot about how it all went down. She told me some about his looks and things like that, so I think some progress is being made.