Untouchable_Fire Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 It's not something you can really explain... it has to be who the guy IS. There's nothing worse than a guy that tries too hard and goes around acting like he's a "bad boy". No Offense, but chances are you can't explain, because you can't tell the difference very well. Honestly, the kind of guy you are probably looking for... will come across as a doormat to you at first glance.
Untouchable_Fire Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 And that's great for you. But women want a strong man, in general. Also though, doormats lack confidence, so do you want a a girl who has little to no confidence? One who will just agree for the sake of agreeing? One who will not make choices? These are all icky traits to me, male or female I'm almost always right... so it's best I have someone who agrees with me, and I don't mind making decisions for myself and others. Plus, people who spend time with me gain confidence over time. I think that you want someone strong... when you perceive yourself as being weak. I am a strong personality, and I can handle other strong personalities... but I don't mind weak ones either.
dreamergrl Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 No Offense, but chances are you can't explain, because you can't tell the difference very well. Honestly, the kind of guy you are probably looking for... will come across as a doormat to you at first glance. But that's not always the truth. The doormat I dated, he came across as just nice at first. But eventually, after dating him for a while, I realized he wasn't just nice. You could walk all over him back and forth for the rest of your life. There was no confidence, strength, choices made, none of that. Who wants someone who will just agree with you for the sake of agreeing? About anything. Someone who doesn't have any real views about anything. They don't have the respect for themselves or the confidence to be who they are. Most of the time, I don't think they know who they are.
dreamergrl Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 I'm almost always right... so it's best I have someone who agrees with me, and I don't mind making decisions for myself and others. Plus, people who spend time with me gain confidence over time. I think that you want someone strong... when you perceive yourself as being weak. I am a strong personality, and I can handle other strong personalities... but I don't mind weak ones either. I don't view myself as weak. I've been through more then enough to know that I am a strong person, but that doesn't mean I want to be strong for two. I want a man who can have his own views, thoughts, feelings, choices, and what not. Perhaps we can turn the tables and say you want someone weak because you want to be able to be agreed with.
tkgirl Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 No Offense, but chances are you can't explain, because you can't tell the difference very well. Honestly, the kind of guy you are probably looking for... will come across as a doormat to you at first glance. I doubt I can explain it to you....so let's just agree to disagree. It's too nice outside and I'm outta here... LATER!
tkgirl Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 I'm almost always right... so it's best I have someone who agrees with me, and I don't mind making decisions for myself and others. Plus, people who spend time with me gain confidence over time. I think that you want someone strong... when you perceive yourself as being weak. I am a strong personality, and I can handle other strong personalities... but I don't mind weak ones either. P.S. you sound like so much fun.. let's date :lmao:
lovesacks Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 just like most guys who say they are nice, really aren't. i think some women are going around claiming they are strong and confident, but are quite the opposite of that. then they have the nerve to expect a strong, confident man in return
Untouchable_Fire Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 I doubt I can explain it to you....so let's just agree to disagree. It's too nice outside and I'm outta here... LATER! I am outside! Yeah for wireless! P.S. you sound like so much fun.. let's date :lmao: If I'm your type that's a bad thing.
Untouchable_Fire Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 But that's not always the truth. The doormat I dated, he came across as just nice at first. But eventually, after dating him for a while, I realized he wasn't just nice. You could walk all over him back and forth for the rest of your life. There was no confidence, strength, choices made, none of that. Who wants someone who will just agree with you for the sake of agreeing? About anything. Someone who doesn't have any real views about anything. They don't have the respect for themselves or the confidence to be who they are. Most of the time, I don't think they know who they are. You make me feel bad that I don't mind a woman that is just a yes woman. I don't like women who are super jealous, attention seekers, or crazy klingy. Those are my big insecurity peeves. My absolute dealbreakers are women who don't listen, fight without good reason, and are not physically affectionate. I don't view myself as weak. I've been through more then enough to know that I am a strong person, but that doesn't mean I want to be strong for two. I want a man who can have his own views, thoughts, feelings, choices, and what not. Perhaps we can turn the tables and say you want someone weak because you want to be able to be agreed with. I see your point. Perhaps this is more of a male/female difference of opinion. Your looking for someone who matches you... more or less. For me that isn't a big deal... there are other traits far more important. Do you see why I don't mind a doormat type though?
dreamergrl Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 You make me feel bad that I don't mind a woman that is just a yes woman. I don't like women who are super jealous, attention seekers, or crazy klingy. Those are my big insecurity peeves. My absolute dealbreakers are women who don't listen, fight without good reason, and are not physically affectionate. And I agree with these in a man. I also don't like insecurities in a man as well, and I find male doormats as insecure. If they were secure in themselves, they would have enough confidence to be who they are, find out who they are, and not just relent to what others want them to be. If you want a yes woman, that's on you, but I don't want a yes man. I want a man who is okay with who he is. And it's not to make you feel bad, it's just my point of view. Two people can be strong and weak. It's about finding a happy medium. I don't think relationships mesh well when one over powers the other. I could possibly have this opinion because my early adult dating life was about being over powered my men, but not in a healthy way. In a they felt the need to be in control in a mean manner - if that make sense. I see your point. Perhaps this is more of a male/female difference of opinion. Your looking for someone who matches you... more or less. For me that isn't a big deal... there are other traits far more important. Do you see why I don't mind a doormat type though? I can see why you don't mind to a point, and it part of it is that it meshes well with you, who you are, and what you want. A doormat male does not mesh well with me and who I want.
Untouchable_Fire Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 I could possibly have this opinion because my early adult dating life was about being over powered my men, but not in a healthy way. In a they felt the need to be in control in a mean manner - if that make sense. Yes, that totally makes sense. That's why I can't handle controlling women! I wonder if Rosey has had a similar experience with controlling men?
Woggle Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 Maybe women who love bad boys are not such great catches themselves. The women on here who ended up cheating the minute she had a man who treated her well probably is a good fit for a bad boy. They both probably deserve each other.
caramel c Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 Hi, Just been doing a stocktake lol of my past relationships. And figuring out most of the have been some kind of 'bad boy' What makes them so attractive? Or am i up for self sabotage. I just ended my latest fiasco of a, ahem, relationship with yet another malfunctioning man. I would have thought at my age 37 that i'd have woken up to myself. I know a man who is lovely. He is attractive. but he is very very nice but he doesnt make me feel excited. I dont want to end up with yet another awful bad boy. So i am getting to know this person quite slowly which isnt my normal style. The more i know him the more nice he seems. he is considerate and very respectful towards women. he is even reliable and takes good care of himself. I really want to give it a chance, get to know him and see what happens. anyone else here in the bad boy or girl cycle? anyone break it and go with a nice guy/girl? and what happened for you. thanks everyone rosey Nothing is hot about bad boys, except maybe if they are what I find physically attractive. No thanks, I'm all set on that.
dreamergrl Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 Yes, that totally makes sense. That's why I can't handle controlling women! I wonder if Rosey has had a similar experience with controlling men? This is why I want a healthy balance between me and the guy I'm with. I don't like feeling like I'm over powering, or being over powered. I think a lot of ladies who are stuck in the bad boy cycle have had much experience with negatively controlling men. And when you get used to that, you don't realize you're stuck in that rut all over again. When I broke out of the rut is when I dated the one and only doormat I'd ever date. I went to the way other extreme, because he appeared nice. Now, after my little dating break, I've got a clear head and know what I want. Neither extreme.
Author rosey77 Posted August 31, 2009 Author Posted August 31, 2009 Hey, Well i been readin all your posts lol. some remeinded me of this guy i was with 3 years ago. He was a so called bad boy. He was covered in tatoos. But you know he was the wimpiest person i ever met. Looked tough as but if he slightly hurt himself he would go on and on like a small child. It really annoyed me no end. that bad boy turned into a bad little brat really. the nice guy i have been talking to lately...well i really want to give it a chance. it is nice to be around someone who can have a decent conversation. Someone you dont have to walk on eggshells with. I would rather have a companion than a combatant now. i know there is some attraction. it is just different. I dont think i need anymore life lessons from bad boy types.
Untouchable_Fire Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 i know there is some attraction. it is just different. I dont think i need anymore life lessons from bad boy types. Rosey, I mean this in the nicest way... but if you don't have a huge attraction... don't take it any further or lead him on for both your sakes. BTW... It IS annoying when somebody wants sympathy points for minor pain.
CaliGuy Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 Yes I have. And... I will take a doormat over a jerk any day. Why? Because I respect myself. I wont tolerate some super bitchy girl. A doormat will be nice to me, which is what I deserve. Maybe if I hated myself I would just go after the self centered women... and kick the nice ones around... but I like myself. Unfortunately while this is nice in theory, you'll eventually get bored by a doormat nice guy and leave him. Because they lack confidence and self-esteem, over time they will be less and less attractive to you. What you want it is a well balanced good man. Not a jerk, not a door mat. well here is something i was reading online about bad boys and girls. The Bad Boy (or Girl) This person seems almost too confident. They claim openly that they don’t need anyone’s approval; that they will do what they want, how they want, and when they want. They tend to rebel against authority, and usually remain aloof. While this individual may seem to have too much self esteem rather than too little, this is actually not the case. The Bad Boy puts on an act to try to prove that he does not need the kindness or acceptance of others. However, this is actually a method for keeping people at a distance – he feels that no one would accept him or want a close relationship with the “real” him. In his mind, he has already decided that others will reject him, so he lashes out preemptively by pushing them away, usually by acting hostile or callous. This is a person who feels that his or her real self is never good enough, and is prone to self-destructive behaviors like drinking. I've said this many times. Jerks and Doormats have the same deficiencies. They just display them differently. They go to the extreme left or right (door mat nice guy to the left, a-hole/jerk to the right). Maybe women who love bad boys are not such great catches themselves. The women on here who ended up cheating the minute she had a man who treated her well probably is a good fit for a bad boy. They both probably deserve each other. Yes, this is also what I have been saying. If you are confident and self-assured, male or female, you will naturally weed out insecure men (door mats or jerks) and be attracted to confident, self-assured signficant others.
Untouchable_Fire Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 Unfortunately while this is nice in theory, you'll eventually get bored by a doormat nice guy and leave him. Because they lack confidence and self-esteem, over time they will be less and less attractive to you. What you want it is a well balanced good man. Not a jerk, not a door mat. First... I don't date men, but nice try. Second, I've never become bored with a woman who was doormattish. Ok, I did have one incident with a woman who had a cat obsession, and hated to leave her house... but she was very assertive in some situations, and that is actually why it didn't work. I havn't dated a school teacher since.
dreamergrl Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 First... I don't date men, but nice try. Second, I've never become bored with a woman who was doormattish. Ok, I did have one incident with a woman who had a cat obsession, and hated to leave her house... but she was very assertive in some situations, and that is actually why it didn't work. I havn't dated a school teacher since. :lmao::lmao: Oh dear....
deux ex machina Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 ...I've said this many times. Jerks and Doormats have the same deficiencies. They just display them differently. They go to the extreme left or right (door mat nice guy to the left, a-hole/jerk to the right). CaliGuy, I never thought of it that way - it makes sense, thanks. This was a while ago...a man who I was starting to fall for, but I held back when I saw his attitude. Apparently, he got burned by an ex, and decided he was going to be a "bad boy" for a change. *rolls eyes* His template for being a bad boy, was being a real prick, to put it plainly. 'Cause someone hurt his feel-bads (and the world owed him something -- note the similarities). He really was a doormat for his ex, sorry to say - and his "new" attitude was in answer to that. I found it off-putting. It made me defensive, and I also had the thought that it wasn't cool at all for future women to have to pay, in essence, for what his ex did. He thought he was an all-new man. However thinking about what you wrote makes me realize that he never did change his core, fundamentally. Nope. He merely manifested it in a different way. Which makes it sadder. Lol Yes, this is also what I have been saying. If you are confident and self-assured, male or female, you will naturally weed out insecure men (door mats or jerks) and be attracted to confident, self-assured signficant others. It takes courage to do it for a lot of people, methinks. To stand, side-by-side with someone you consider an equal, with no games. A lot tougher to do for some people than most are willing to acknowledge. To have the confidence to realize you don't need the jerks in your life, or an unbalanced relationship, to prove your worth/have someone need you...
fishtaco Posted September 1, 2009 Posted September 1, 2009 CaliGuy, I never thought of it that way - it makes sense, thanks. This was a while ago...a man who I was starting to fall for, but I held back when I saw his attitude. Apparently, he got burned by an ex, and decided he was going to be a "bad boy" for a change. *rolls eyes* His template for being a bad boy, was being a real prick, to put it plainly. 'Cause someone hurt his feel-bads (and the world owed him something -- note the similarities). He really was a doormat for his ex, sorry to say - and his "new" attitude was in answer to that. I found it off-putting. It made me defensive, and I also had the thought that it wasn't cool at all for future women to have to pay, in essence, for what his ex did. He thought he was an all-new man. However thinking about what you wrote makes me realize that he never did change his core, fundamentally. Nope. He merely manifested it in a different way. Which makes it sadder. Lol Well, bad boy and doormat are both bad, but at least bad boys get something while the doormats get nothing. It's the lesser of the two evils. I'd say he's one step up. Anyway, it's pretty common. Men have their women-made-me-this-way story, and women have their men-made-me-this-way story. At least he made an effort. I have friends that are on their way to star in their own versions of The 40 Year Old Virgin, without the happy ending, both literally and figuratively, and much more angrier. They won't come out of their shells. They just get pissed off. Entitlement is the sign of the times anyway. It's not just a guy thing. Basic principle, if you're doing something, and it's not working, change your approach. Banging your head against a brick wall isn't going to make it disappear. If it still doesn't work, change it again. So at least he was able to change. Maybe after he figures out being purely a bad boy doesn't work either, he'll change again. He wants more, but at least he's willing to work for it. I'd say to him good job and keep working at it.
deux ex machina Posted September 1, 2009 Posted September 1, 2009 Well, bad boy and doormat are both bad, but at least bad boys get something while the doormats get nothing. It's the lesser of the two evils. I'd say he's one step up. Anyway, it's pretty common. Men have their women-made-me-this-way story, and women have their men-made-me-this-way story. At least he made an effort. I have friends that are on their way to star in their own versions of The 40 Year Old Virgin, without the happy ending, both literally and figuratively, and much more angrier. They won't come out of their shells. They just get pissed off. Entitlement is the sign of the times anyway. It's not just a guy thing. Basic principle, if you're doing something, and it's not working, change your approach. Banging your head against a brick wall isn't going to make it disappear. If it still doesn't work, change it again. So at least he was able to change. My point is he actually hasn't changed, fundamentally. It's coming from the same place. He did change the external - and if you subscribe to "fake it until you make it", then it might've helped him get his power back. My issue with it, was it was at the expense of women who had nothing to do with hurting him in the past. Maybe after he figures out being purely a bad boy doesn't work either, he'll change again. He wants more, but at least he's willing to work for it. I'd say to him good job and keep working at it. I don't think it was a dare-to-be-great situation - not in his particular case. I think he was coming from a weak place. Maybe it was a momentary thing. I never stuck around to find out. I get it. When someone tries something, and it's unsuccessful, they try something else that works better...hope he has.
tkgirl Posted September 1, 2009 Posted September 1, 2009 Maybe women who love bad boys are not such great catches themselves. The women on here who ended up cheating the minute she had a man who treated her well probably is a good fit for a bad boy. They both probably deserve each other. damn it! that was me and I repeat again... for the third or fourth time... it happened about 10 years ago!!! and I did not cheat on him the minute I realized he was a nice guy.. we were together for over two years!!! after the hell I went through with the "bad boy" he was great for me.. I learned a lot about myself and I really did appreciate the way he treated me. And I didn't plan on cheating on him.. but we were at the point where he was talking marriage and maybe I got scared... I don't know... and I guess I got a little restless and met someone who excited me more... and stayed with new guy for about three years... so there's my story. sorry I'm not perfect but I never claimed to be.. so back the F off! geez people!
tkgirl Posted September 1, 2009 Posted September 1, 2009 and for the record... I am confident, my self esteem is just fine thank you, and I am over wanting the "bad boy"... many many years ago actually!
JohnP82 Posted September 1, 2009 Posted September 1, 2009 My issue with it, was it was at the expense of women who had nothing to do with hurting him in the past. I think we all have to deal with what people do to our partners in the past in some way. It may not present itself as overtly but it may be in how they react to certain actions, sexual, etc. There is another thread on here in which some guy's girlfriend refuses to give blowjobs because of something that happened in her past. I don't think we should have to deal with what someone else has done, but in reality we may have to.
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