Not using NC....

[hoping2heal]

Im sorry - not sure what you mean here? If you mean have we ever met in person, lol - yes - its not an internet relationship - we lived together for 2 years also.

 

If you mean, have we seen eachother since the breakup - no - and I dont think either of us are ready for that yet anyway. Like I said, I want to take it slow just as well as he does.

 

If I misunderstood the question, I am sorry.

 

NP, I myself was confused because you mentioned you weren't going to go to his country, etc. I was just trying to understand what's going on here to the best of my ability.

[HBJen]

Okay HBJen, so he's one of those people who like to cry wolf in other words. I hope he can realise that it is not going to be productive for either of you for him to handle tension in his life or your relationship by ending it. It's going to wear on you and create insecurity issues in you. You are going to get it in your head that you need to avoid conflict because you don't want to overwhelm him and have him pull the cord on your relationship, will in turn lead you to hold your feelings inside, and stop you from honestly and effectively communicating and making your needs known to him.

 

There are all kinds of detriment that take place when one partner pulls this in a R/S you need to make it clear that this is not acceptable and you two need to find another way to deal with stress and conflict in your relationship.

 

What you stated here I completely agree with - again, the reason why we are both taking things exceptionally slowly. There are still many questions up in the air....and I do not want to throw myself back into a situation where it is doomed for failure. At the same time, I dont want to let go of something that I believe so much in.

 

His cry-wolf syndrome, is a result of a sheltered life. A life where he had never experienced any sort of failure or any sort of disappointment. Its sad to believe that at 27 years old - but it is very true for him. He happened to experience a lot of failures over the past couple of years - and hasnt been able to cope properly. He needs to learn to do that, and until that time, I will not be willing to get into a committed relationship with him. But, that doesnt mean that I am going to disappear either. I think that we can grow together from this, if we are both willing to make the right moves.

[HBJen]

NP, I myself was confused because you mentioned you weren't going to go to his country, etc. I was just trying to understand what's going on here to the best of my ability.

 

 

Ahhh - no, he is from the US - and moved here (Toronto) to be with me (I had lived there with him for a while in the beginning, but then we decided to come here).

 

There is a more detailed description of the breakup in the Lost in Love... thread I posted when I first found this site if you want a background on it all.

[Surfer Girl]

Life changing events can reak havoc on peoples lives..... Some what of not being settled and having to identify with the reality.... The fear of trying to comprehend and recognize life changes sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worst.... I guess it depends on whether this person is willing to identify what they can do to fix it and whether or not he needs your help or needs to do it on his own....

[HBJen]

Life changing events can reak havoc on peoples lives..... Some what of not being settled and having to identify with the reality.... The fear of trying to comprehend and recognize life changes sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worst.... I guess it depends on whether this person is willing to identify what they can do to fix it and whether or not he needs your help or needs to do it on his own....

 

Right - I completely agree with you. He does need to figure that out, and I think he is on the path to that. Im not saying that path necessarily means to reconcile with me - but I think that the option is very open at this point.

[hoping2heal]

What you stated here I completely agree with - again, the reason why we are both taking things exceptionally slowly. There are still many questions up in the air....and I do not want to throw myself back into a situation where it is doomed for failure. At the same time, I dont want to let go of something that I believe so much in.

 

His cry-wolf syndrome, is a result of a sheltered life. A life where he had never experienced any sort of failure or any sort of disappointment. Its sad to believe that at 27 years old - but it is very true for him. He happened to experience a lot of failures over the past couple of years - and hasnt been able to cope properly. He needs to learn to do that, and until that time, I will not be willing to get into a committed relationship with him. But, that doesnt mean that I am going to disappear either. I think that we can grow together from this, if we are both willing to make the right moves.

 

 

It also sounds like perhaps he has never learned how to have intimacy with a person either? I get that impression because people who feel they need to be "apart" from their relationships (provided their relationship is not abusive/negative or counterproductive to their changes or healing, and provided it's not a situation with say hard drugs where the other person is newly enlightened and doesn't want to harm the other more) is because they don't view their relationships as a safezone for growth, change, and exploration. In essence they don't know or see how to be vulnerable with their partners, they believe it makes them weak, not understanding the strength it actually brings about. That's what this seems to be about more so than anything. It's one thing to not be sure how to handle dissapointment, but should you feel you aren't safe in your relationship to reasses your life, or make some changes, it's a sign you either do not know how to have intimacy or afraid of, unsure of it or not understanding it. Something along those lines.

[HBJen]

It also sounds like perhaps he has never learned how to have intimacy with a person either? I get that impression because people who feel they need to be "apart" from their relationships (provided their relationship is not abusive/negative or counterproductive to their changes or healing, and provided it's not a situation with say hard drugs where the other person is newly enlightened and doesn't want to harm the other more) is because they don't view their relationships as a safezone for growth, change, and exploration. In essence they don't know or see how to be vulnerable with their partners, they believe it makes them weak, not understanding the strength it actually brings about. That's what this seems to be about more so than anything. It's one thing to not be sure how to handle dissapointment, but should you feel you aren't safe in your relationship to reasses your life, or make some changes, it's a sign you either do not know how to have intimacy or afraid of, unsure of it or not understanding it. Something along those lines.

 

I believe there is definitely some truth to what you are saying here. We had a discussion a couple months ago about our past relationships and how they reflect on how we deal with things now. Other than his first girlfriend which was a highschool sweetheart for 4 years - his longest relationship from there was 6 months. The reason being that, whenever the "honeymoon" period was over, one or the other person just got out (it wasnt just him that bolted). He is lacking in a lot of experience. He doesnt have good relationship rolemodels around him either.

 

With me and him - we stayed together past the honeymoon period - we endured some pretty hard stuff (especially hard stuff for him). There just became a point where he was not happy with himself, and didnt know how to deal with it other than closing off.

 

He doesnt like to be vulnerable at all - he doesnt understand how to be - so you are forsure right on this course also.

 

I am not saying here he is the only one that has issues. I have trust issues, very much so. I have insecurities that I expected him to take care of. I realize that now, and its something I need to work on for any future relationship.

[TaraMaiden]

How about you both agree to go complete NC for 2 months, both go to individual Counselling, then touch base?

[Surfer Girl]

There are a few red flags.... The fact he has not been able to sustain a long term relationship.... I hope for your sake he is not a CP....

[HBJen]

There are a few red flags.... The fact he has not been able to sustain a long term relationship.... I hope for your sake he is not a CP....

 

What is a CP?

 

I dont know what he is - I am hoping to see him grow from all of this. There are red flags, on both of our parts forsure - but nothing in life is perfect, and no one in life is perfect either.

[HBJen]

How about you both agree to go complete NC for 2 months, both go to individual Counselling, then touch base?

 

I dont want to go 2 months without contact - neither does he. Councelling, sure - I agree with that as an option - but I dont think its necessary to have NC to do that. Its a path of moving onto other things instead of a path of moving towards a future together.

[TaraMaiden]

On the contrary, it is absolutely essential. How on earth can you get to the bottom of your emotions, feelings and issues if you constantly have the distraction of a source of those emotions and feelings clouding your perception?

You need a break from each other, precisely to avoid touching base and comparing notes.

you need to have some independence and find your own self before trying to heal yourselves.

Individual counselling doesn't necessarily mean your moving apart. it may well bring you much closer together.

but you both need the opportunity to shed some crud without the responsibility of being answerable to one another.

Even as couples, sometimes things have to be faced alone.

I really believe that.

[hoping2heal]

I believe there is definitely some truth to what you are saying here. We had a discussion a couple months ago about our past relationships and how they reflect on how we deal with things now. Other than his first girlfriend which was a highschool sweetheart for 4 years - his longest relationship from there was 6 months. The reason being that, whenever the "honeymoon" period was over, one or the other person just got out (it wasnt just him that bolted). He is lacking in a lot of experience. He doesnt have good relationship rolemodels around him either.

 

With me and him - we stayed together past the honeymoon period - we endured some pretty hard stuff (especially hard stuff for him). There just became a point where he was not happy with himself, and didnt know how to deal with it other than closing off.

 

He doesnt like to be vulnerable at all - he doesnt understand how to be - so you are forsure right on this course also.

 

I am not saying here he is the only one that has issues. I have trust issues, very much so. I have insecurities that I expected him to take care of. I realize that now, and its something I need to work on for any future relationship.

 

Okay about him : You can pass the message along and either he will or he won't be able to understand it or recieve it, but you have to be vulnerable to maintain and grow a deep relationship. If you don't, well what happened here was a perfect example of WHAT happens if you don't. A relationship where two people can't learn to be vulnerable with one another and build true intimacy I'm not sure how long that can last in any case. So it might be difficult or uncomfortable, but if he wants to maintain something lasting with you or anyone else, he's going to have to suck it up and work on that. Now, his partner also has to do the same and he and his partner can make it easy on eachother by directly and honestly expressing needs, cares, concerns etc. No game playing, no "the chase" mentality. No, it's hard but it means telling them your true heart and vice versa.

 

If you tell your partner "I like/need/enjoy" this, you make it easy on them don't you to have that need met, yes? So, while it will take effort on his behalf, he should also have a partner working alongside him making the vulnerability transition easier on him.

 

Okay now You- you said have you have trust issues? Why is that? Is it directly related to him, or in general? Have you been through some kind of experience in your past that has caused the trust issues? What's going on there with that?

[HBJen]

Okay about him : You can pass the message along and either he will or he won't be able to understand it or recieve it, but you have to be vulnerable to maintain and grow a deep relationship. If you don't, well what happened here was a perfect example of WHAT happens if you don't. A relationship where two people can't learn to be vulnerable with one another and build true intimacy I'm not sure how long that can last in any case. So it might be difficult or uncomfortable, but if he wants to maintain something lasting with you or anyone else, he's going to have to suck it up and work on that. Now, his partner also has to do the same and he and his partner can make it easy on eachother by directly and honestly expressing needs, cares, concerns etc. No game playing, no "the chase" mentality. No, it's hard but it means telling them your true heart and vice versa.

 

If you tell your partner "I like/need/enjoy" this, you make it easy on them don't you to have that need met, yes? So, while it will take effort on his behalf, he should also have a partner working alongside him making the vulnerability transition easier on him.

 

Okay now You- you said have you have trust issues? Why is that? Is it directly related to him, or in general? Have you been through some kind of experience in your past that has caused the trust issues? What's going on there with that?

 

Thanks for the advice about him. We agreed that over the next couple of weeks we are not going to discuss our relationship/past/issues - and in turn, if we choose to speak to eachother, it will be because we want to, and because we want to enjoy eachothers company. But when we do talk about "us" again, this will be on the table.

 

In regards to me: My relationship before him was a pretty crazy one. Made some mistakes and trusted someone who didnt deserve to be trusted. I was less heartbroken, more right pissed that the jerk could do what he did to me (we built an online company together and the entire time he was planning out a situation to take off with it and my money, which he was successful in doing so). I had to start over completely when all this happened, and it took me about 10 months to get on my feet again financially. I wasnt hurt by the lost love, as I dont believe I was ever in love with that guy - I was just intrigued and infatuated, and enjoyed the business venture. But - I learned a good lesson on trust - to be very wary of it.

 

I met "him" 10 months after this whole situation occured, a very "fantasy" type meet too. And he was MUCH different from this man. He was kind and gentle and laid back and ambitious and romantic......and overtime, I learned to trust him. There was an instance in our relationship about a year ago where he really hurt me emotionally. And from that point forward, I think I raised my expectations of him too high. I didnt trust in his words as much and I questioned things. Just became insecure - and since he was going through his own emotional rollercoaster, it didnt help (although, I did help in many other ways). I said I forgave him, but obviously I didnt completely - and I take ownership for that.

[HBJen]

On the contrary, it is absolutely essential. How on earth can you get to the bottom of your emotions, feelings and issues if you constantly have the distraction of a source of those emotions and feelings clouding your perception?

You need a break from each other, precisely to avoid touching base and comparing notes.

you need to have some independence and find your own self before trying to heal yourselves.

Individual counselling doesn't necessarily mean your moving apart. it may well bring you much closer together.

but you both need the opportunity to shed some crud without the responsibility of being answerable to one another.

Even as couples, sometimes things have to be faced alone.

I really believe that.

 

I guess I just dont believe that it is "essential". I believe it is in a lot of situations....but, I dont feel that way here. We are taking a physical break - we are not in eachother's faces every day like we were. We both realize that there is something there that we need to repair - and are taking the time to see if its possible.

 

Yes - there are things we need to face alone - which is why I understand what he is doing. But, facing it alone doesnt mean that you have to not talk. It doesnt mean that you have to exclude them from your life.

[Beeotch]

Whatever decision you make...the members of this forum are not the ones who will live with it. Therefore do what you feel is appropriate for you. If it doesn't work...so be it. You learn from your mistakes. I guess trying and failing is better than never trying at all and always wondering....

 

A wise person once told me that people believe that love is always 50/50 but it's not true...that sometimes one partner is stronger and one can give 90 and the other can only give 10....but working together, the stronger building up the weaker, eventually it will come around to both giving equally. It makes sense.

 

But everyone has to look at their own situation. For my ex and I...I did all I could. I have left it alone completely...but for someone else this may not be what is best. You have to follow your gut....as you said love is a risk, relationships are risks....you just have to decide which risks you want to take and go from there....but NOTHING is secure.

[Surfer Girl]

Cp is committment phobia..... One that wants to be in a relationship but gets anxiety about being in a relationship that gears towards committment and tries to distance themselves to relieve the anxiety....

[HBJen]

Whatever decision you make...the members of this forum are not the ones who will live with it. Therefore do what you feel is appropriate for you. If it doesn't work...so be it. You learn from your mistakes. I guess trying and failing is better than never trying at all and always wondering....

 

A wise person once told me that people believe that love is always 50/50 but it's not true...that sometimes one partner is stronger and one can give 90 and the other can only give 10....but working together, the stronger building up the weaker, eventually it will come around to both giving equally. It makes sense.

 

But everyone has to look at their own situation. For my ex and I...I did all I could. I have left it alone completely...but for someone else this may not be what is best. You have to follow your gut....as you said love is a risk, relationships are risks....you just have to decide which risks you want to take and go from there....but NOTHING is secure.

 

Well said B - on all points really. I agree with everything you have said here, and thank you so much for your input.

[hoping2heal]

Thanks for the advice about him. We agreed that over the next couple of weeks we are not going to discuss our relationship/past/issues - and in turn, if we choose to speak to eachother, it will be because we want to, and because we want to enjoy eachothers company. But when we do talk about "us" again, this will be on the table.

 

Okay, just something for you to think about. You know the details/plans of your relationship far better than I, so I'm not sure what you two are planning, but I was under the impression you both wanted to reconcile. If that is the case, I can't see how avoiding the issues you two need to work on is going to make them better. You're both going to need to have a mature atitude about them, and instead of putting them away in the drawer out of fear of what kind of reaction or "Set off" they might bring about, drag them out into the light and start working on them. I mean I guess I'm not sure I quite understand the intent of beating around the bush, but maybe you can help connect those dots for me.

 

In regards to me: My relationship before him was a pretty crazy one. Made some mistakes and trusted someone who didnt deserve to be trusted. I was less heartbroken, more right pissed that the jerk could do what he did to me (we built an online company together and the entire time he was planning out a situation to take off with it and my money, which he was successful in doing so). I had to start over completely when all this happened, and it took me about 10 months to get on my feet again financially. I wasnt hurt by the lost love, as I dont believe I was ever in love with that guy - I was just intrigued and infatuated, and enjoyed the business venture. But - I learned a good lesson on trust - to be very wary of it.

 

Okay, yes I can understand how that would open your eyes a bit. He can help you out with your trust issues by providing you with consistency in his actions, and also once you two figure out how you can both work at your relationship together, in a partnership instead of trying to build bridges alongside eachother that is going to help with security also. There was some trust that was broken when this guy "Cried wolf" about the break up, so he needs to understand that his responsibility if he wants this to work is to not only show some understanding and willingness to work on his issue; being vulnerable and building intimacy; but also being patient with you as you have your moments of insecurity and also provide you with consistency. On your part, you need to decipher when you're being insecure because of "you" and when he's doing something to cause it; and if he is, communicating in a productive way to help him turn that into a security instead.

 

I met "him" 10 months after this whole situation occured, a very "fantasy" type meet too. And he was MUCH different from this man. He was kind and gentle and laid back and ambitious and romantic......and overtime, I learned to trust him. There was an instance in our relationship about a year ago where he really hurt me emotionally. And from that point forward, I think I raised my expectations of him too high. I didnt trust in his words as much and I questioned things. Just became insecure - and since he was going through his own emotional rollercoaster, it didnt help (although, I did help in many other ways). I said I forgave him, but obviously I didnt completely - and I take ownership for that.

 

I think the same principles as I said earlier apply to this situation, that and why didn't you tell him you don't forgive him? Figure out for yourself why you felt you couldn't be honest with him about his hurt and what it meant for you. It's going to be essential you learn to be in touch with your feelings and boundaries and feel safe and comfortable in your relationship to let him know when he's overstepped them, when he's hurt you, and when you can't just shake it off and shrug a bit. It's OKAY to say "You know what, you hurt me and I want to forgive you right now, but I just can't yet. I'm working towards that and I feel like something has been broken, I want us to work together to repair that but it's going to take some time for me." The truth will always be better.

[HBJen]

Ok - its not necessarily avoiding...its the fact that we talked about it a lot on Thursday (about 6 hours) and then after agreeing on some things, decided to just take some time to enjoy eachother when we speak - and come back to it. One of our biggest problems were the fact that we got on eachothers nerves because of stress and our situation at the time...and we both want to give eachother a chance to just enjoy some moments and get some positivity back. Its not beating around the bush, but just taking things slowly and not overwhelming eachother.

 

Thank you for the insecurities advice - I completely agree. And in all honesty - whether I get back with him or not - that is something I need to fix and resolve - and your thoughts there are very helpful.

 

I agree - the truth is very important, and I have never held back how I feel - probably said to much at times instead - again, why I am trying to pace things, because I need to improve on that for the growth of my relationships.

 

Its amazing how complicated something can be. Ive wondered a lot today, especially after all the discussions in this thread. I am hurting a lot still too - and I am still very confused about a lot of things. I know that I want him, thats not something I am confused about - but I am definitely confused about how to move forward and how to deal with certain things.