Lovelybird Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 And if what you say is ever so true, why is that even those who choose "God's Path" still end up in divorce? End up being cheated on? End up cheating? Why is it even those who follow 'the rules' still end up getting hurt, because as another poster, they stayed because that's what God toldt hem to do. because somewhere they don't follow God closely, it is a narrow path. What is narrow path? a path that isn't easy for everyone. Is it easy to swallow pride? is it easy to say sorry? is it easy to forgive? is it easy to sacrifice? Not easy, but the result is life, full of peace and joy. Human can be so blind to own fault, but through enlightening of Spirit of God, one can see his/her own fault and repent and change. We can only see surface, but God knows the heart. We cannot judge who has fault in a couple, seemingly a wife is doing alright, and her husband betrayed her, but maybe only God knows how she is selfish, withhold affections and sex from her husband. seemingly a husband is doing alright in our eyes, and his wife treats him no good, but only God knows how pride he is. In our eyes we maybe are the "right side, its all their fault", but in reality we are blind to our own faults, and these can cause major problems. That is why so important to let God teach us and reveal to us the truth. And God didn't promise us that we won't meet tough times, and said you will have tough times, but through looking up to God and trusting God, we are promised "everything works good for those who love God"
Author dreamergrl Posted August 29, 2009 Author Posted August 29, 2009 because somewhere they don't follow God closely, it is a narrow path. What is narrow path? a path that isn't easy for everyone. Is it easy to swallow pride? is it easy to say sorry? is it easy to forgive? is it easy to sacrifice? Not easy, but the result is life, full of peace and joy. Human can be so blind to own fault, but through enlightening of Spirit of God, one can see his/her own fault and repent and change. We can only see surface, but God knows the heart. We cannot judge who has fault in a couple, seemingly a wife is doing alright, and her husband betrayed her, but maybe only God knows how she is selfish, withhold affections and sex from her husband. seemingly a husband is doing alright in our eyes, and his wife treats him no good, but only God knows how pride he is. In our eyes we maybe are the "right side, its all their fault", but in reality we are blind to our own faults, and these can cause major problems. That is why so important to let God teach us and reveal to us the truth. Now you are validating a person getting hurt when they did not ask for it. Because only God knows. You now validated poor behavior because only God knows. Really, it's sickening. I've been through things that I don't wish upon anyone... and why? Because I didn't follow the only rules there are? Give me a break. I'm not responsible for others actions.
Lovelybird Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 Now you are validating a person getting hurt when they did not ask for it. Because only God knows. You now validated poor behavior because only God knows. I don't validate poor behavior or getting hurt. But this I know, no one is perfect. When a wife withhold affection and sex from a husband, can the husband right if he cheats? NO WAY, I didn't mean that. Both of them are wrong, both of them need to repent. That is another human tendency: if you hurt me, I hurt you too. And this is no good in God's eyes. What I meant is to learn to be humble, and check self, not just "that is all you faults not mine". This is the only way to improve
Lovelybird Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 Now you are validating a person getting hurt when they did not ask for it. Because only God knows. You now validated poor behavior because only God knows. Really, it's sickening. I've been through things that I don't wish upon anyone... and why? Because I didn't follow the only rules there are? Give me a break. I'm not responsible for others actions. you aren't married, it isn't not your 'duty' for offering sex, if this is what you meant
Author dreamergrl Posted August 29, 2009 Author Posted August 29, 2009 I don't validate poor behavior or getting hurt. But this I know, no one is perfect. When a wife withhold affection and sex from a husband, can the husband right if he cheats? NO WAY, I didn't mean that. Both of them are wrong, both of them need to repent. That is another human tendency: if you hurt me, I hurt you too. And this is no good in God's eyes. What I meant is to learn to be humble, and check self, not just "that is all you faults not mine". This is the only way to improve Perhaps you could learn to be humble by not having the "This way is the only way" attitude. And you did validate, in a sense, the wrong behavior, because you claimed a reason why one got cheated on. And hey... maybe the wife withheld sex because it just wasn't good, and she would have known this should she not have waited years to have sex with her husband.
Author dreamergrl Posted August 29, 2009 Author Posted August 29, 2009 you aren't married, it isn't not your 'duty' for offering sex, if this is what you meant :lmao: Sex is a duty now? :lmao: Wow. I'm speechless. Wait... no I'm not. Sex will never be a "duty" for me.
hoping2heal Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 Who has power over me? Who get the benefit when I want to wait? It is myself who get the blessings. I don't give myself to a man who doesn't want to commit. why do you think that is mindlessly? Besides our own sexual needs, there are something more important, that is to honor God, because the love God gives us is very deep that we don't want to upset Him, and through HIs love we know whatever HE asks us to do is for our good, I learned this from life experiences not just from book. There are times we are disobediant, and far from God, but soon God make us realize that. Of course God gives one free will to choose, but from experiences the best choice is to follow God's will, whatever God asked me to do is for my goodness, not that God just wants to power over me. What God does, does for love. God's intention is perfect, HE created things bless us, it is our own rebelliousness mess things up. To answer your question, Whoever has told you and made you believe that in order to have a fulfilling and healthy comitted relationship you need to wait for sex, and you need to choose a man because he will wait for sex also. That's who. I think it would be a greater dissapointment (and in the experience of others I have known, it does seem that way) when a woman or man go following this ideal because someone told them "God" wants this for us; goes into that relationship, into marriage, they followed everything by the book, only to have their relationship fall apart down the road due to lack of communication, or sometimes other more norotious reasons such as infidelity. What a terrible dissapointment to find out YOU did everything you believed God wanted, only to have it fall apart on you. Which, let's make it clear I don't think that's "God's fault" and I'm not going to be one of those people who says "where was God then" because I find that all nonsense. People do what they want, and some people cannot think for themselves so they do what someone else wants them to do instead. Some of these people only mean well and think they are really helping. Others have just given themselves a "kingdom" and knighted themselves King because they enjoy the power it gives them. Life is not fair, wonderful things happen to people who do nothing but tear others apart and terrible things happen to loving, compassionate, giving people. And, wonderful things happen to wonderful people, and terrible things happen to people who behave terribly. It's a mix and a match, and you have to use your head to the best of your ability, but you can never,and will never control another person in a relationship or their actions or their actions towards YOU, no matter how many things you study, and check, and try to do right by the book.
EricaH329 Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 And hey... maybe the wife withheld sex because it just wasn't good, and she would have known this should she not have waited years to have sex with her husband. :lmao::lmao:
Lovelybird Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 :lmao: Sex is a duty now? :lmao: Wow. I'm speechless. Wait... no I'm not. Sex will never be a "duty" for me. did you see the quote? that means not really duty
Author dreamergrl Posted August 29, 2009 Author Posted August 29, 2009 did you see the quote? that means not really duty You are the one who claimed women need to be submissive...
Lovelybird Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 Perhaps you could learn to be humble by not having the "This way is the only way" attitude. And you did validate, in a sense, the wrong behavior, because you claimed a reason why one got cheated on. And hey... maybe the wife withheld sex because it just wasn't good, and she would have known this should she not have waited years to have sex with her husband. Sex isn't merely a physically act. Sex connects to soul and spirit. When a couple has sex issues, it hardly is only about sex, but about their heart connections. Good sex is a manifest of a good relationship, is result of it, not because of it. Good sex cannot lead to heart connection, but heart connection can lead to great sex. First thing first, is about heart and spirit, then sex will follow through. That is why waiting is important, you want to develop heart and spirit connection fully before sex, otherwise, sex will stop the deeper growing in the heart and spirit sides.
Lovelybird Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 You are the one who claimed women need to be submissive... submissive doesn't mean slavish, doesn't mean being forced. Biblical sumission means quiet and gentle spirit, a joyful heart to respect her man. It is a position only someone with strength can be
hoping2heal Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 Sex isn't merely a physically act. Sex connects to soul and spirit. When a couple has sex issues, it hardly is only about sex, but about their heart connections. Good sex is a manifest of a good relationship, is result of it, not because of it. Good sex cannot lead to heart connection, but heart connection can lead to great sex. First thing first, is about heart and spirit, then sex will follow through. That is why waiting is important, you want to develop heart and spirit connection fully before sex, otherwise, sex will stop the deeper growing in the heart and spirit sides. I agree you should have a love relationship. Dreamergirl, in kind believes you should have a love relationship. No one here is arguing that you shouldn't be in a loving relationship, I personally think casual sex leads to stds, heartbreak, and unwanted pregnancy because that is a fact, I don't use religion as the basis of it. I avoid it because I personally don't want to deal with any of those things. But, a marriage is not a sign or indicator that your relationship is fully developed, a heart and spirit connection has been made any more so than not being married is an indicator that it HASN'T taken place. You seem to think you need to wait until you get married to have sex first, because God wants you too, and second because in your head you believe being married protects you from relationship problems. Dreamergirl already correctly addressed that, no it doesn't, no it won't, no it can't, no it hasn't for many people. Everyone wants to be in love, everyone wants to stay in love. Marriage or not, not everyone does, and I don't for one second believe it fails or succeeds just because you follow what someone ELSE has told you God wants for you.
Author dreamergrl Posted August 29, 2009 Author Posted August 29, 2009 Sex isn't merely a physically act. Sex connects to soul and spirit. When a couple has sex issues, it hardly is only about sex, but about their heart connections. Good sex is a manifest of a good relationship, is result of it, not because of it. Good sex cannot lead to heart connection, but heart connection can lead to great sex. First thing first, is about heart and spirit, then sex will follow through. That is why waiting is important, you want to develop heart and spirit connection fully before sex, otherwise, sex will stop the deeper growing in the heart and spirit sides. See, what your not understanding here is that sex also isn't merely about the soul and spirit - if that's how you wish to put it. And actually good sex can lead the heart to a connection, because you're closer as you are connection in a physical sense. You're able to know that the physical portion is there. You can't for physical connection. But emotional connection can grow. When you first meet someone, it's based on physical attraction. Then you move further and find out if you connect mentally and emotionally. There has to be physical attraction. So, if you're SO does not do it for you in bed, it can ruin quite a bit. And how do you know if your SO can do it for you in bed if you wait for years to find out? God cannot make rules for physical attraction. That is a natural instinct.
Author dreamergrl Posted August 29, 2009 Author Posted August 29, 2009 submissive doesn't mean slavish, doesn't mean being forced. Biblical sumission means quiet and gentle spirit, a joyful heart to respect her man. It is a position only someone with strength can be sub⋅mis⋅sive See web results for submissive See images of submissive –adjective 1. inclined or ready to submit; unresistingly or humbly obedient: submissive servants. 2. marked by or indicating submission: a submissive reply. Origin: 1580–90; submiss + -ive Related forms: sub⋅mis⋅sive⋅ly, adverb sub⋅mis⋅sive⋅ness, noun Synonyms: 1. tractable, compliant, pliant, amenable. 2. passive, resigned, patient, docile, tame, subdued. Antonyms: 1. rebellious, disobedient.
EricaH329 Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 Sex isn't merely a physically act. Sex connects to soul and spirit. When a couple has sex issues, it hardly is only about sex, but about their heart connections. Good sex is a manifest of a good relationship, is result of it, not because of it. Good sex cannot lead to heart connection, but heart connection can lead to great sex. First thing first, is about heart and spirit, then sex will follow through. That is why waiting is important, you want to develop heart and spirit connection fully before sex, otherwise, sex will stop the deeper growing in the heart and spirit sides. I do agree with this statement to a certain extent. Let me get some clarification though. You said "That is why waiting is important..." but let me ask something. You fall in love before marriage, correct? While the engagement ring, but not yet the wedding ring, is on the finger? Than why do you have to wait to have sex until after marriage? If you are in love with another person, wouldn't you be able to have sex then? The heart connection is there, then shouldn't the sex follow? Or is sex really only supposed to be allowed after you get married? Forget the love part... it's just the marriage? Seems a little contradictory to me.
Lovelybird Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 The man God gives me certainly will do for me:love:, what God gives only can go beyond my expectation, not below. The point here is if I am willing to choose the one God wants me to choose. God won't forbid me to choose others, but that won't be the best. and you are right, hoping2heal, I won't listen to what others tell me, I listen to God and His guidance, it only gets better and better
hoping2heal Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 The man God gives me certainly will do for me:love:, what God gives only can go beyond my expectation, not below. The point here is if I am willing to choose the one God wants me to choose. God won't forbid me to choose others, but that won't be the best. and you are right, hoping2heal, I won't listen to what others tell me, I listen to God and His guidance, it only gets better and better Honey, whatever gets you through the day. If you believe you are listening to God, then so be it. But it IS possible to think for YOURSELF, still believe in God, still have fulfillment and peace and joy and happiness in life. It doesn't all have to be the way another human being tells you . Trust me, the world isn't HARDLY as black and white as you're seeing it now, or as you NEED to see it in order to make what some other person tells you, seem like the truth.
Author dreamergrl Posted August 29, 2009 Author Posted August 29, 2009 The man God gives me certainly will do for me:love:, what God gives only can go beyond my expectation, not below. The point here is if I am willing to choose the one God wants me to choose. God won't forbid me to choose others, but that won't be the best. and you are right, hoping2heal, I won't listen to what others tell me, I listen to God and His guidance, it only gets better and better Wow, so when God gave me a drunken abusive boyfriend, that was oh so beyond my expectations. :rolleyes:
prettybaby Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 I didn't go through all 5 pages, but with my current partner: we dated for a little over 2 months first (= 20-something dates), and I had already known him forever prior to dating. Ok, honestly, those 2 months were the 2 longest months of my life lol but I wouldn't change a thing; it made it so special. With my ex, it happened within a month, and I thought that was fast for me lol Especially since we had started dating right after we met, so he was basically a stranger at that point. In retrospect, I would have preferred to get to know him better first, because I feel like I got caught up in a relationship a little faster than what I emotionally felt like at the time. It turned into a pretty solid long term relationship that lasted over 5 years, but the beginning stages had their fair share of awkwardness and issues. Which is something I haven't experienced with my current partner, as we got to know each other so well first. It all happened fairly smoothly and without any headaches, and when we finally "did it", it was 100% genuine love. That being said, I don't have a whole lot of experience to compare. And ultimately, I have no idea what's an average good timing. I guess it really depends on the person / couple. I do know that sex on the 4th date is an average and I realize there's nothing wrong with it. It's just not something I could do, especially not if it's someone I've just met. I also don't think that waiting until marriage is something I could ever do.
hoping2heal Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 Wow, so when God gave me a drunken abusive boyfriend, that was oh so beyond my expectations. :rolleyes: Dreamer, the idea is that had you gone to church, and met a man who seemed to be godly, waited for marriage to have sex with you, was an active member in the church, served others, gave and showed he had a good heart and you two courted, you wouldn't have ever ended up with a drunk or abusive boyfriend. That is what you are told and that is what many believe, oh the heartache I've witnessed when girls have believed that the outward appearances that are taught in several religions and played out very well, come crumbling down and they realise that either they are bored stiff, their husband is a jerk, their husband is a closet cheater/drinker/porno pirate. Personally, I have witnessed much more "debacuhery" in the relationships of my religious friends, than my more secular or spiritual friends, I think this has nothing to do with God, but rather the damage done when people are taught to repress natural instincts and feelings, and made to feel these things are shameful, and bad. I think that's actually why it seems to be so much more prevalent, becaue religious people are usually taught to hide things, from themselves first and foremost, and then others and eventually **** hits the fan.
Lovelybird Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 I do agree with this statement to a certain extent. Let me get some clarification though. You said "That is why waiting is important..." but let me ask something. You fall in love before marriage, correct? While the engagement ring, but not yet the wedding ring, is on the finger? Than why do you have to wait to have sex until after marriage? If you are in love with another person, wouldn't you be able to have sex then? The heart connection is there, then shouldn't the sex follow? Or is sex really only supposed to be allowed after you get married? Forget the love part... it's just the marriage? Seems a little contradictory to me. That is a way to show substantial love: have sex after marriage. Want to store the good part for the marriage, not tastes it stealingly before marriage. it shows dedication, "if I love you, I can wait for a little while". Human's passion can come and go, but if they honor God, their love isn't based on passion only, but substantial love. Ok, human's love is limited. If they focus on "can he/she satisfy me?", then this marriage isn't built on strong foundation. When one couple focus on God and learn unconditional love from God, then they can pass their limitations, and bring true love into their marriage.
Author dreamergrl Posted August 29, 2009 Author Posted August 29, 2009 Dreamer, the idea is that had you gone to church, and met a man who seemed to be godly, waited for marriage to have sex with you, was an active member in the church, served others, gave and showed he had a good heart and you two courted, you wouldn't have ever ended up with a drunk or abusive boyfriend. That is what you are told and that is what many believe, oh the heartache I've witnessed when girls have believed that the outward appearances that are taught in several religions and played out very well, come crumbling down and they realise that either they are bored stiff, their husband is a jerk, their husband is a closet cheater/drinker/porno pirate. Personally, I have witnessed much more "debacuhery" in the relationships of my religious friends, than my more secular or spiritual friends, I think this has nothing to do with God, but rather the damage done when people are taught to repress natural instincts and feelings, and made to feel these things are shameful, and bad. I think that's actually why it seems to be so much more prevalent, becaue religious people are usually taught to hide things, from themselves first and foremost, and then others and eventually **** hits the fan. And I find that idea to be twice as bad. Because it now places me to blame.
Lovelybird Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 Wow, so when God gave me a drunken abusive boyfriend, that was oh so beyond my expectations. :rolleyes: I bet you didn't listen to God. or followed His advices
Lovelybird Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 And I find that idea to be twice as bad. Because it now places me to blame. it was part of your fault. Why did you choose a man like that?
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