caramel c Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 Yeah exactly, perfectly stated. There is no reason at all why a guy won't pay for the first few dates, other than he is a cheap self-aborbed jerk, case in point the OP's situation. We couldn't have aked for a more perfect example of what not paying early on represents long term. Right, this is perfectly clear to me. The OP could have read the signs early on. It is beyond me how the situation escalated into what it is today. Sad, really. There is no shortage of men who long for opportunities to make a lady feel special, and paying for dates is just ONE of them. I'd much rather be in a relationship with one of THOSE, than a guy who treats me like a business partner.
butcher's hook Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 There is no shortage of men who long for opportunities to make a lady feel special, and paying for dates is just ONE of them. I'd much rather be in a relationship with one of THOSE, than a guy who treats me like a business partner. That is so true!
dreamergrl Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 I'm not a gold digger. I will at times offer to pay my way. It depends on the person. But this guy is pathetic. They've been together for a year, and he can eat off of OP, but not offer to take her out, buy her dinner? I'll be honest, the dates I've been on lately, the guys always offer to pay. And even if I'm not comfortable with them paying, at least the offer is there.
boogieboy Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 TA32, talk to the guy, give him a chance to change even if he doesnt. Try to find out the reason he isnt paying for anything. There might be an explanation, or he just might need to be told what the deal is. He is taking advantage of you, and you really should communicate your concerns with him before you move on to someone else.
Untouchable_Fire Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 Butcher's hook is right on and I completely agree. I have no problem paying for dates in a relationship. But, right off the bat, especially the first date, if he doesn't pay then he is not the man for me. I have never had this happen, actually. I've never had a guy accept my offer to pay on a first, second, OR third date. They were happy to get my number, to call, to invite me out, and to pay. There is nothing wrong with that. I expect nothing, but I only accept a gentleman. That attitude irritates the sh** out of me. IF I care about a woman... I have NO ISSUES PAYING. But... on the first date... are you kidding? That is totally screwed up! To my mind it's the equivalent of expecting sex on the first date. It just says that your self centered and sleazy! Why would I want a woman that thinks I need to pay for her time? That's the reason I don't like strippers and prostitutes.
caramel c Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 That attitude irritates the sh** out of me. IF I care about a woman... I have NO ISSUES PAYING. But... on the first date... are you kidding? That is totally screwed up! To my mind it's the equivalent of expecting sex on the first date. It just says that your self centered and sleazy! Why would I want a woman that thinks I need to pay for her time? That's the reason I don't like strippers and prostitutes. Well it certainly was not my intention to irritate you. You said if you care about a woman you have no issues paying. IF YOU CARE about a woman YOU HAVE NO ISSUES paying. There you have it. I expect nothing. I said that for a reason. I hear about people who disagree with me all of the time, which is why it wouldn't surprise me if I ended up going out with a guy who didn't pay. It hasn't happened yet, but it might. I won't go out with him again, thats all. I still didn't EXPECT anything. I see what I'm dealing with and I'm in or out.
Untouchable_Fire Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 Ok, this is turning into the popular debate about whether men should pay for the first few dates or not, yada yada. Back to OP's situation; I'm thinking about 3 things here: This guy is lying to you about his financial situation; he's not making much money at all or he's in financial trouble, so he's leaching off of you.He's socially retarded, and honestly, if he's that clueless at his age, he'll never improve.How much time do you two spend together? Could he be leading a double life? I'm thinking it might be #2 and he's just a douche bag, but since I don't know your whole situation, #1 and #3 are might be worth considering. This is spot on! As a guy, I just read this as he is very thoughtless. Forgetting her birthday... then mentioning it... and not doing anything about it. That should say everything right there! I would encourage her to dump this guy. His money is not worth it.
Untouchable_Fire Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 Well it certainly was not my intention to irritate you. You said if you care about a woman you have no issues paying. IF YOU CARE about a woman YOU HAVE NO ISSUES paying. There you have it. I expect nothing. I said that for a reason. I hear about people who disagree with me all of the time, which is why it wouldn't surprise me if I ended up going out with a guy who didn't pay. It hasn't happened yet, but it might. I won't go out with him again, thats all. I still didn't EXPECT anything. I see what I'm dealing with and I'm in or out. Oh yeah... me and every other guy out there will definitely pay. I would not even allow you to pay! Why? Because I am expected to. No, it's 100% expectation. Your not evaluating traits. Do you think that on the first date your going to magically figure out if the guy is generous or not? Ha! If you really had no expectations... then you would not screen guys based on their willingness to stuff $$$ down your panties.
butcher's hook Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 That attitude irritates the sh** out of me. Don't blow your lid over it. IF I care about a woman... I have NO ISSUES PAYING. But... on the first date... are you kidding? That is totally screwed up! Nah it's not screwed up it works! To my mind it's the equivalent of expecting sex on the first date. It just says that your self centered and sleazy! But men do expect sex on the first date!! Why would I want a woman that thinks I need to pay for her time? That's the reason I don't like strippers and prostitutes. the only thing I expect is that it could go either way, he may pay like he may not. If and ONLY if I am really interested in the guy, I find it extremely attractive that he pays and I would find it a total turn off that he makes me go dutch. If I am not interested, then I prefer to pay own half I won't be seeing him again so no point in having him pay for me or act as if he is courting me. I don't want to be courted by someone I am not interested in.
caramel c Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 Oh yeah... me and every other guy out there will definitely pay. I would not even allow you to pay! Why? Because I am expected to. No, it's 100% expectation. Your not evaluating traits. Do you think that on the first date your going to magically figure out if the guy is generous or not? Ha! If you really had no expectations... then you would not screen guys based on their willingness to stuff $$$ down your panties. I don't look at it that way at all. There is nothing magical in my rationale. I'm sure there are turn offs you can think of as far as girls go. And, I'm sure that some of them are deal breakers for you. You don't have to validate my points; it doesn't bother me that we disagree. lol about the panties
butcher's hook Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 Do you think that on the first date your going to magically figure out if the guy is generous or not? Ha! Yes first impressions are everything. When you go into a job interview do you think the person interviewing you is going to say "oh well he said or did nothing that made him stand out from the rest of the candidates but I think he might have the potential to be a stellar employee, let's take a gamble on him" No way, you only have one chance to make that first impression. You snooze you lose. I am not saying you are not generous but if you are and you meet a woman who will notice this right away you blew your chance then and there. As long as you are aware and prepared to make a possible bad first impression then it's totally fine to proceed as you do. You must not be that interested in a woman if you don't care about a first impression. It's only men who are financially unstable or selfish who won't pay that's the bottom line.
Untouchable_Fire Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 Don't blow your lid over it. Nah it's not screwed up it works! But men do expect sex on the first date!! the only thing I expect is that it could go either way, he may pay like he may not. If and ONLY if I am really interested in the guy, I find it extremely attractive that he pays and I would find it a total turn off that he makes me go dutch. If I am not interested, then I prefer to pay own half I won't be seeing him again so no point in having him pay for me or act as if he is courting me. I don't want to be courted by someone I am not interested in. Sorry for throwing a bit of a tantrum there. Your probably right. I've just gone through some stuff about this recently and I'm projecting it into this thread. Honestly, I don't really do anything over the top for a first date anyway. I don't look at it that way at all. There is nothing magical in my rationale. I'm sure there are turn offs you can think of as far as girls go. And, I'm sure that some of them are deal breakers for you. You don't have to validate my points; it doesn't bother me that we disagree. lol about the panties You have a great sense of humor, and I see your point. You've always had guys pay, because at the end of a date they are probably interested enough that they genuinely want to pay. Yes first impressions are everything. When you go into a job interview do you think the person interviewing you is going to say "oh well he said or did nothing that made him stand out from the rest of the candidates but I think he might have the potential to be a stellar employee, let's take a gamble on him" No way, you only have one chance to make that first impression. You snooze you lose. I am not saying you are not generous but if you are and you meet a woman who will notice this right away you blew your chance then and there. As long as you are aware and prepared to make a possible bad first impression then it's totally fine to proceed as you do. You must not be that interested in a woman if you don't care about a first impression. It's only men who are financially unstable or selfish who won't pay that's the bottom line. Your probably right. It's not so much about being generous as it is creating an impression of generosity. The ones that don't are like the OP's boyfriend and are selfish, or socially retarded. On a personally level... I don't like being treated like my money is my worth. I suppose that is for another thread.
caramel c Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 Sorry for throwing a bit of a tantrum there. Your probably right. I've just gone through some stuff about this recently and I'm projecting it into this thread. Honestly, I don't really do anything over the top for a first date anyway. You have a great sense of humor, and I see your point. You've always had guys pay, because at the end of a date they are probably interested enough that they genuinely want to pay. Your probably right. It's not so much about being generous as it is creating an impression of generosity. The ones that don't are like the OP's boyfriend and are selfish, or socially retarded. On a personally level... I don't like being treated like my money is my worth. I suppose that is for another thread. A girl should never treat you as though you are a meal ticket. If they are dating you because they are bored and just want to go out and get a free meal then F them. They are taking you for a ride. And a girl that is only going out with you out of boredom, or because she sees that you are wealthy will show her true colors in other ways. I'm sure there are tell tale signs of that. An example would be her being super interested in the car you drive, or your watch, or asking you questions about your home. I could go on and on but you know what I mean... I am sure butcher's hook and I make it well known that we appreciate everything that a guy does for us. It's not that we just sit there showing no sign of grattitude. That would not be very nice at all.
Chicago_Guy Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 What is wrong with you people?????????? Just because you happen to have a vagina between your legs doesn't mean you're entitled to anything. Reading these sites makes it increasingly difficult to have respect for women. Seriously :sad: I agree. I always pay for at least the first few dates, but you'd be amazed at the sense of entitlement that some women out there seem to have - some women don't even thank men for buying dinner. I actually went out with a girl a couple times who told me that men like to pay for everything. Even though she probably made at least $100k as an accountant, should wouldn't pay for anything and was very self-centered on top of that. What's the difference between some women who expect men to pay for everything and some men who expect women to have sex with them after a couple dates? Both have ridiculous senses of entitlement. I suppose that dating is a necessity to weed out such people.
Untouchable_Fire Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 A girl should never treat you as though you are a meal ticket. If they are dating you because they are bored and just want to go out and get a free meal then F them. They are taking you for a ride. And a girl that is only going out with you out of boredom, or because she sees that you are wealthy will show her true colors in other ways. I'm sure there are tell tale signs of that. An example would be her being super interested in the car you drive, or your watch, or asking you questions about your home. I could go on and on but you know what I mean... I am sure butcher's hook and I make it well known that we appreciate everything that a guy does for us. It's not that we just sit there showing no sign of grattitude. That would not be very nice at all. Yeah, I just dumped somebody for not having any... gratitude. It's not the first time either. I think from now on I'm going to do things different. I'm going to be a cheap skate after a month of dating. If she isn't interested enough after that period to continue on... then I'm lucky to be rid of her early.
Vet Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 Yeah, I just dumped somebody for not having any... gratitude. It's not the first time either. I think from now on I'm going to do things different. I'm going to be a cheap skate after a month of dating. If she isn't interested enough after that period to continue on... then I'm lucky to be rid of her early. Does gratitude = sex, here?
sally4sara Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 I am all for paying for yourself when you go on a date. We are not children and it is not illegal for women to work a job for pay. Enough with the "prove my worth by spending money" attitude. If you can't tell your worth without a man spending money on you, a guy being cheap is not your problem. However if the guy is raiding your fridge and sleeping over more often than he hosts, he damn well better be chipping in on the grocery bill and rent. And if he wants the sexy costume treatment - he should buy the lace and latex himself as it is more for him than it is for her.
butcher's hook Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 Yeah, I just dumped somebody for not having any... gratitude. It's not the first time either. I think from now on I'm going to do things different. I'm going to be a cheap skate after a month of dating. If she isn't interested enough after that period to continue on... then I'm lucky to be rid of her early. I agree with that strategy. I usually offer to pick up the date or make the plans for a date so that I can pay for it, by the third or fourth date, that way he knows it is not going to be this situation where I am some spoiled princess just out to get free stuff. That's gross! Enough with the "prove my worth by spending money" attitude. If you can't tell your worth without a man spending money on you, a guy being cheap is not your problem. Oh no no it's not about my worth. My worth is the same whether he pays or not. It's about his generosity, his tendencies, and his ability to take care. It's just another manly quality I find sexy. and a guy being cheap IS my problem, it is if I want to date him with serious intent. I am not going to stay with el cheapo sorry.
Kamille Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 To go back to the OP: have you ever talked to him about any of this? Does he have any idea how his 'cheap' attitude is affecting you? If not, then informing him you have concerns is the first place to start. Also, about him enjoying the dinners in and not taking you out... Well, while you might enjoy going out, is it a possibility that he's just the kind of guy who likes staying in? And oh, if he forgets your birthday again and it upsets you... Then say so! Don't pretend everything is all right when clearly you are starting to fume inside. Basically, yes, your bf is cheap [and, for the rest of the board, this has very little to do with who paid what on the first dates...], but you definitely need to work on asserting yourself.
Untouchable_Fire Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 Does gratitude = sex, here? No, that part was very good. It had to do with a hissy fit over me not buying a dress. To be fair, I did invite her to an event that requires a nice dress, but I bought her one 2 months ago for a similar event.
butcher's hook Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 To go back to the OP: have you ever talked to him about any of this? Does he have any idea how his 'cheap' attitude is affecting you? If not, then informing him you have concerns is the first place to start. [and, for the rest of the board, this has very little to do with who paid what on the first dates...], Whatev, it has everything to do with it. And excuse me but she has discussed it with him and here is his answer: I asked him if he thinks I'm a gold digger or something (If I were, I would have been long gone after 1 week and certainly wouldn't be investing so much myself). He acts like I"m from mars or something.. he really doesn't understand the concept of taking a girl out and paying.. and he thinks a girl should pay half of everything always to be fair. To me it feels like we're not going someplace*together*, we're going someplace spontaneously like we're not even involved with each other. A friend would do more for me. I would never take a chance to go into a relationship with a guy that showed very early on that he is selfish and cheap, for the simple fact that it could turn out exactly like this loser turned out. If you have time to waste on gambling like this, good on yeah. For the simple fact that it could turn out exactly like this situation I would never take a chance.There are far too many normal guys out there willing to put forth their best foot forward to waste time on self-centered losers. It had to do with a hissy fit over me not buying a dress. To be fair, I did invite her to an event that requires a nice dress, but I bought her one 2 months ago for a similar event. OMG she expected you to buy her a dress for an event just because you invited AND you had already bought her one a few months before? Didn't she have a wardrobe? No wonder this convesation made you upset that's gross on her part!
Kamille Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 Thanks BH's for responding with charming roll-eyes. In my view, she didn't address the issue. She wondered if there was something wrong with his perception of her. She personalized it. She didn't tell him she had an issue. She asked him if he had one. I feel that debating who should pay for the first date and what it means isn't very helpful to the OP, considering she's been dating this man for over a year. I've been in all kind of scenarios (my circle is lot less conservative then most) where the man paid or we went dutch, and I feel who pays and does what in the beginning isn't a reliable indicator of attitudes toward finances. I certainly feel, as I have said, that there really isn't a point in debating this issue at lenght in this thread. What's done is done. Congrats to you, BH's, for having the good sense to stave off cheap men within the first few dates - but how does that help the OP any?
Kamille Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 To sum up my last post: I still strongly feel that part of the issue is that, yes, most definitely he is cheap - but the OP also seems to have a hard time asserting herself in a constructive way. So, while she may not be able to change him, she could perhaps benefit from learning how to assert herself, know what she wants and feel safe asking for it.
butcher's hook Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 Thanks BH's for responding with charming roll-eyes. You'r right I apologize for the rolley eyes, they are just fun to use! ;) Your rather blanket "who pays has very little to do with how things turn out" is rather final and somewhat pompous" says who? it has very little to do with it? What I am saying is that it "could be linked" some people are less willing to stick around to find out, where as you are saying it has very little to do with that, it's a bit dismissive of other's points of views. In my view, she didn't address the issue. She wondered if there was something wrong with his perception of her. She personalized it. She didn't tell him she had an issue. She asked him if he had one. Fine but I am going on what she posted, I bet any money it has been discussed and the answer is more than likely "no problem here, women should pay half end of story" meanhwile she is being used for much more than half. But you are right we don't know for sure, we are only going on perception. I feel that debating who should pay for the first date and what it means isn't very helpful to the OP, considering she's been dating this man for over a year. I've been in all kind of scenarios (my circle is lot less conservative then most) where the man paid or we went dutch, and I feel who pays and does what in the beginning isn't a reliable indicator of attitudes toward finances. I certainly feel, as I have said, that there really isn't a point in debating this issue at lenght in this thread. What's done is done. Congrats to you, BH's, for having the good sense to stave off cheap men within the first few dates - but how does that help the OP any? You're right, sorry if it came off like I was trying to "be better" than the OP, it was not about comparing wtih the OP. We were just discussing why it makes sense for guys to pay early on and the conversation just evolved like that. But you are right, it doesn't help the OP now since what's done is done.
Untouchable_Fire Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 I feel that debating who should pay for the first date and what it means isn't very helpful to the OP, considering she's been dating this man for over a year. I've been in all kind of scenarios (my circle is lot less conservative then most) where the man paid or we went dutch, and I feel who pays and does what in the beginning isn't a reliable indicator of attitudes toward finances. I certainly feel, as I have said, that there really isn't a point in debating this issue at lenght in this thread. What's done is done. Congrats to you, BH's, for having the good sense to stave off cheap men within the first few dates - but how does that help the OP any? It should empower the OP by giving her a baseline for how other women allow men to treat them! OP's boyfriend sounds like he has issues far beyond just being a cheap bastard. His overall lack of thought for his GF's situation and feelings display some major issues. Also, the coffee shop incident proves he has no problem spending money on himself, without thought to the people around him!
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