TooAccepting32 Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 Ok.. we're in our 30's He's making a lot more than I am.. he has a high paying job in a professional career.. so he's not poor. We started seeing each other exclusively over a year ago. We share a lot of interests ect.. great match other than a few issues. For the first few months he wouldn't buy me anything.. no dinner, no coffee.. we didn't go on dates. My b-day came up and he got me a rather impersonal card and did nothing else. We sat and talked at my place like any other day. Months went by and finally he took me out for dinner.. after that it was extremely rare and this situation of not even buying me a coffee or anything continued. In the beginning I thought it understandable not to spend on a woman until you know that she's worthy.. and that it's a sure investment. Maybe I'm very low in self esteem. Eventually he reaches the point where he "loves" me.. he's very affectionate physically and wants lots of affection and attention. He spends several nights a week at my place enjoying lovely dinners, wine, etc. I dress sexy and beautiful for him to make it special. He stays over and has breakfast, and I pack him a lunch for work. After a while of this I start to feel like I'm doing the womanly things to show a guy he's special... to "win" a guy's heart.. but he's not doing the manly things to "win" a girl like taking her out. It turns out I was spending way more on him and creating way more special dates for him. I'm talking like 10-20 to 1. There was a time for example when he said "You look beautiful all dressed up for me, let's go out for coffee".. then when we get to the counter he says "go ahead and order" and then he like backs far away so that I have to pay for my own. Then he buys himself a meal and eats it in front of me. I felt worthless.. less than worthless because I had gone out of my way to dress up for him. I am really not an expensive date. I'm just happy with a little generosity and evidence that a person doesn't mind spending a little on me - that I'm worth it (like the price of a $1.50 coffee).. it hurts my heart to think I'm not even worth the pain of spending $1.50. I asked him if he thinks I'm a gold digger or something (If I were, I would have been long gone after 1 week and certainly wouldn't be investing so much myself). He acts like I"m from mars or something.. he really doesn't understand the concept of taking a girl out and paying.. and he thinks a girl should pay half of everything always to be fair. To me it feels like we're not going someplace*together*, we're going someplace spontaneously like we're not even involved with each other. A friend would do more for me. He has taken me out more and a few times it felt like he really wanted to, but for the most part it feels so forced. most of the time it's just us going for breakfast or dinner and me not reaching for my wallet because I've already been feeding him at my place all of the time and putting all this effort in AND once in a while I take him to a special restaurant to make a very special experience for him and I pay for everything. We're not talking cheap either.. it's usually an exotic restaurant. And guess what... he has NO objection to me paying for him, treating him, and making special dates for him. He seems like he thinks he deserves that. (fine, but the pained look on his face when he pays for me makes me feel like he thinks he deserves something that I don't even deserve from him.. when usually it's the guy who does most of the treating on dates) It's great for him. He has me taking care of him and doting on him like a woman, and taking him on exciting dates like a man.. and he feels he deserves it all. This isn't everything...for example accepting half payment for his sister's bday gift, and then just letting me pay everything including HIS meal when we took my brother and mother out for their bdays. There is example after example of what appears to be extreme cheapness. We've been together for over a year now. Recently I had a bday.. he forgot.. then when he found out, he said.. I didn't even get you a card.. I said.. that'sok, you don't have to do something today for my bday, you can do something on another day! He didn't do anything at all. A month has passed. He's been away on business for one week now and didn't call once. He's exploring the city in his evenings. Didn't email. When we're together, he's very affectionate and tells me he loves me.. I feel at that time that it's love and that I might mean something to him. We have a lot in common.. and I'm quite taken with him. When he's gone though......... what am I left with? Everyone loves this guy.. he seems very non manipulative and genuine. He's a very "nice" guy and he's cute so people like him. But ... here I am.. wondering if he's enjoying his time with me for as long as he can for as little as he can invest while not actually valuing me or being really serious about me. I'm 32.. no kids.. I have a lot going for me with the exception of age.. I'm fit and healthy, and according to some I'm a really pretty girl. I would like a family and I don't know if I'll end up all dried up at 34 or something and having to start over. I'm feeling pretty worthless and I'm not sure about right from wrong at this time. Could anyone help?
caramel c Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 RUFKM right now? Wow, I will have to think about this and come back before I say more...
vox Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 Ok.. we're in our 30's He's making a lot more than I am.. he has a high paying job in a professional career.. so he's not poor. We started seeing each other exclusively over a year ago. We share a lot of interests ect.. great match other than a few issues. For the first few months he wouldn't buy me anything.. no dinner, no coffee.. we didn't go on dates. My b-day came up and he got me a rather impersonal card and did nothing else. We sat and talked at my place like any other day. Months went by and finally he took me out for dinner.. after that it was extremely rare and this situation of not even buying me a coffee or anything continued. In the beginning I thought it understandable not to spend on a woman until you know that she's worthy.. and that it's a sure investment. Maybe I'm very low in self esteem. Eventually he reaches the point where he "loves" me.. he's very affectionate physically and wants lots of affection and attention. He spends several nights a week at my place enjoying lovely dinners, wine, etc. I dress sexy and beautiful for him to make it special. He stays over and has breakfast, and I pack him a lunch for work. After a while of this I start to feel like I'm doing the womanly things to show a guy he's special... to "win" a guy's heart.. but he's not doing the manly things to "win" a girl like taking her out. It turns out I was spending way more on him and creating way more special dates for him. I'm talking like 10-20 to 1. There was a time for example when he said "You look beautiful all dressed up for me, let's go out for coffee".. then when we get to the counter he says "go ahead and order" and then he like backs far away so that I have to pay for my own. Then he buys himself a meal and eats it in front of me. I felt worthless.. less than worthless because I had gone out of my way to dress up for him. I am really not an expensive date. I'm just happy with a little generosity and evidence that a person doesn't mind spending a little on me - that I'm worth it (like the price of a $1.50 coffee).. it hurts my heart to think I'm not even worth the pain of spending $1.50. I asked him if he thinks I'm a gold digger or something (If I were, I would have been long gone after 1 week and certainly wouldn't be investing so much myself). He acts like I"m from mars or something.. he really doesn't understand the concept of taking a girl out and paying.. and he thinks a girl should pay half of everything always to be fair. To me it feels like we're not going someplace*together*, we're going someplace spontaneously like we're not even involved with each other. A friend would do more for me. He has taken me out more and a few times it felt like he really wanted to, but for the most part it feels so forced. most of the time it's just us going for breakfast or dinner and me not reaching for my wallet because I've already been feeding him at my place all of the time and putting all this effort in AND once in a while I take him to a special restaurant to make a very special experience for him and I pay for everything. We're not talking cheap either.. it's usually an exotic restaurant. And guess what... he has NO objection to me paying for him, treating him, and making special dates for him. He seems like he thinks he deserves that. (fine, but the pained look on his face when he pays for me makes me feel like he thinks he deserves something that I don't even deserve from him.. when usually it's the guy who does most of the treating on dates) It's great for him. He has me taking care of him and doting on him like a woman, and taking him on exciting dates like a man.. and he feels he deserves it all. This isn't everything...for example accepting half payment for his sister's bday gift, and then just letting me pay everything including HIS meal when we took my brother and mother out for their bdays. There is example after example of what appears to be extreme cheapness. We've been together for over a year now. Recently I had a bday.. he forgot.. then when he found out, he said.. I didn't even get you a card.. I said.. that'sok, you don't have to do something today for my bday, you can do something on another day! He didn't do anything at all. A month has passed. He's been away on business for one week now and didn't call once. He's exploring the city in his evenings. Didn't email. When we're together, he's very affectionate and tells me he loves me.. I feel at that time that it's love and that I might mean something to him. We have a lot in common.. and I'm quite taken with him. When he's gone though......... what am I left with? Everyone loves this guy.. he seems very non manipulative and genuine. He's a very "nice" guy and he's cute so people like him. But ... here I am.. wondering if he's enjoying his time with me for as long as he can for as little as he can invest while not actually valuing me or being really serious about me. I'm 32.. no kids.. I have a lot going for me with the exception of age.. I'm fit and healthy, and according to some I'm a really pretty girl. I would like a family and I don't know if I'll end up all dried up at 34 or something and having to start over. I'm feeling pretty worthless and I'm not sure about right from wrong at this time. Could anyone help? Honestly? He sounds like someone who may be on the high-functioning autism spectrum. You should wiki Asperger's syndrome to see if that sounds like him.
Author TooAccepting32 Posted August 28, 2009 Author Posted August 28, 2009 RUFKM right now? Wow, I will have to think about this and come back before I say more... We do have a sexual relationship.
Author TooAccepting32 Posted August 28, 2009 Author Posted August 28, 2009 Honestly? He sounds like someone who may be on the high-functioning autism spectrum. You should wiki Asperger's syndrome to see if that sounds like him. Oh my god! You may have a point here...... I have known a lot of people with autism and aspergers... I didn't really think of this in relation to him. Especially since he can be so affectionate and want so much affection. Maybe there is a lot I still don't know about aspergers. Actually.. maybe having so much aspergers around me desensitized me to some of the characteristics so that they don't even stand out to me as being out of the ordinary. What you say is definitely something to think about. Maybe I'm being pathetic and hopeful.. but I will look into this. Thanks a lot
caramel c Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 I think this whole situation is pathetic. I am so sorry, I wish I could say something more positive. I feel very positive about you dumping him and moving on to someone who will treat you with class, like a lady, what I hope you truly deserve. Then you will look back and see what a careless scavenger this guy was and how happy you became without him.
butcher's hook Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 Ewwww you should have got rid of him after the first couple of dates when he didn't treat you to the date. This is precisely why you study men early on to see how generous they are, if they don't pay for you the first couple of dates, that is who they are just cheap selfish bastards. YUCK! I'm afraid there is nothing you can do now you have to accept that you set the pace for what you are willing to accept from this guy very early on.
butcher's hook Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 Honestly? He sounds like someone who may be on the high-functioning autism spectrum. Nahh he doesn't have autism, he is just a self-absorbed prick. There a plenty men like this out there, run don't walk if you encounter one.
Lucky_One Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 If you really DO love him, then you could try a novel idea - communication. "BF, I paid chipped in half for your sister's present. Half of dinner for my brother comes to $47.37." "BF, let's eat at your place tonight. It's your turn to cook; I would like something Italian." "BF, I am happy to cook dinner tonight at my place. Please stop and pick up chicken breasts, angel hair, heavy cream, a baguette, and a bottle of Chianti."
vox Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 Ewwww you should have got rid of him after the first couple of dates when he didn't treat you to the date. This is precisely why you study men early on to see how generous they are, if they don't pay for you the first couple of dates, that is who they are just cheap selfish bastards. YUCK! I'm afraid there is nothing you can do now you have to accept that you set the pace for what you are willing to accept from this guy very early on. So wait a minute? Why can't a woman be just as giving in the beginning? If a guy doesn't automatically pay for a meal, he's a cheap selfish bastard? Wasn't there this whole thing I read about, women's liberation where women fought (rightly) for the respect of being seen as equal? Huh, until courtship and then it's all Victorian again.
butcher's hook Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 So wait a minute? Why can't a woman be just as giving in the beginning? If a guy doesn't automatically pay for a meal, he's a cheap selfish bastard? As a woman I am just as giving we take turns, but when a guy does not pay the first couple times he is MOST DEFINITELY a cheap basatard. No ifs ands or buts. I would never see him again if doesn't pay end of story. I have never ever dated a man (who didn't offer to pay on the first couple dates) past a first date. Most men I have dated just pay and get offended if I want to pay. And only men who are generous in this respect end up my boyfriends, I never give a man a second chance if he doesn't pay on the first date. My current boyfriend simply would not accept any money from me by the fourth date when I wante to pay, it took me having to make plans ahead of time to cover the date in order for him to let me pay. He is a gentleman all around!
vox Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 As a woman I am just as giving we take turns, but when a guy does not pay the first couple times he is MOST DEFINITELY a cheap basatard. No ifs ands or buts. I would never see him again if doesn't pay end of story. I have never ever dated a man (who didn't offer to pay on the first couple dates) past a first date. Most men I have dated just pay and get offended if I want to pay. And only men who are generous in this respect end up my boyfriends, I never give a man a second chance if he doesn't pay on the first date. So glad to be gay. Yikes. Princess syndrome is so not cute.
butcher's hook Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 My current boyfriend simply would not accept any money from me by the fourth date when I insisted on paying, it took me having to make plans ahead of time to cover the date in order for him to let me pay. He is a gentleman all around! And guess what he is very generous, very thoughtful and a very balanced person in this respect. He is exactly who he showed to be in those first few dates. YUM! I wouldn't change how I am for anything in the world! It has ALWAYS worked pefectly for me. A guy who shows signs of cheapness early on will be cheap in many respects all throughout the relationship, no thanks! It's not the same in the gay world, I have very close gay friends and they agree it is not like that between men, and that's fine I would not expect you to understand. Just like you should not expect me to understand open relationships amongst gays, or bathhouses, or the idea that you practically feck on the dancefloor when you first meet. Courtship is drastically different from the gay to straight world. Vive la difference!
vox Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 My current boyfriend simply would not accept any money from me by the fourth date when I insisted on paying, it took me having to make plans ahead of time to cover the date in order for him to let me pay. He is a gentleman all around! And guess what he is very generous, very thoughtful and a very balanced person in this respect. He is exactly who he showed to be in those first few dates. YUM! I wouldn't change how I am for anything in the world! It has ALWAYS worked pefectly for me. A guy who shows signs of cheapness early on will be cheap in many respects all throughout the relationship, no thanks! It's not the same in the gay world, I have very close gay friends and they agree it is not like that between men, and that's fine I would not expect you to understand. Just like you should not expect me to understand open relationships amongst gays, or bathhouses, or the idea that you practically feck on the dancefloor when you first meet. Courtship is drastically different from the gay to straight world. Vive la difference! Yeah, but see, you didn't REALLY offer. You only offered to get him to validate your whole "gentleman" (Actually, meal ticket gimme gimme bs) thing. You were testing him, plain and simple. I'm a person, not a wallet with a person attached. And if you don't want to change, that's awesome. If you found some dude who wants to spoil you and treat you like the princess you obviously are and have been since you were little, more power to you. It just doesn't come across as anything more than being vapid, greedy and parasitic. So, congratulations! Don't you dare change for the world
butcher's hook Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 Yeah, but see, you didn't REALLY offer. You only offered to get him to validate your whole "gentleman" (Actually, meal ticket gimme gimme bs) thing. You were testing him, plain and simple. I'm a person, not a wallet with a person attached. What are you even talking about?!?!? By the fourth date I didn't just offer you are right I took care of it. I had to do it on my own ahead of time in order to have him let me. He just would not accept it if we were out and I suggested "I wanna get this round" No the first few times I never offered at all, in fact he never even gave me a chance waitress came with the bill he just took care of it then and there didn't even look at me. TOTALLY hot! I smiled and allowed him to pay and he did and I thanked him and made him feel very manly for taking care of me. When he walked me home I hugged him tight and gave him a kiss goodnight and told him I had a wonderful time and thanked him for the great date again. he texted me 5 mins later to see when he could call me to see me again! It's hot! Now that we have been seeing each other for a few months we take turns treating each other.
butcher's hook Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 It just doesn't come across as anything more than being vapid, greedy and parasitic. You are just jealous because this doesn't fly in the gay world! :laugh: It's funny because when guys whine about having to pay for a girl on the first dates I always tell them just turn gay, then you never have to worry!
vox Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 You are just jealous because this doesn't fly in the gay world! :laugh: It's funny because when guys whine about having to pay for a girl on the first dates I always tell them just turn gay, then you never have to worry! I've always had more income than everyone I've ever dated. I offer to pay usually out of simple necessity, and yeah, it bothers me. I don't want someone to pay my way, though. Not really. To me, that just says that I'm not capable of standing on my own two feet. There were plenty of people when I was in my late teens/early 20s who were all too eager to try to buy my affection with money, dinners, drugs... and I cannot tell you how repugnant that whole mindset is. I actually saw a women say in another thread "THIS MAN IS EMOTIONALLY PERFECT FOR ME. HE PAYS FOR EVERYTHING." How utterly disgusting. Lady, you're no princess, and you're not a queen. I feel really bad for guys who have to deal with the likes of this.
caramel c Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 Butcher's hook is right on and I completely agree. I have no problem paying for dates in a relationship. But, right off the bat, especially the first date, if he doesn't pay then he is not the man for me. I have never had this happen, actually. I've never had a guy accept my offer to pay on a first, second, OR third date. They were happy to get my number, to call, to invite me out, and to pay. There is nothing wrong with that. I expect nothing, but I only accept a gentleman.
Lucky_One Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 The simple fact is that people tend to value most the things that cost them the most. You take better care of a $350 cashmere sweater than you do a Gap t-shirt (if you are in the cashmere affording cohort), or you take better care of a Gap t-shirt than of your Hanes undershirt that you picked up in a 3pack at Wal-Mart (if you are in a lower income bracket). A beater is called a beater because it is cheap, and no one cares what happens to it. You don't see a guy in a Maybach calling it a beater.
vox Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 Butcher's hook is right on and I completely agree. I have no problem paying for dates in a relationship. But, right off the bat, especially the first date, if he doesn't pay then he is not the man for me. I have never had this happen, actually. I've never had a guy accept my offer to pay on a first, second, OR third date. They were happy to get my number, to call, to invite me out, and to pay. There is nothing wrong with that. I expect nothing, but I only accept a gentleman. What is wrong with you people?????????? Just because you happen to have a vagina between your legs doesn't mean you're entitled to anything. Reading these sites makes it increasingly difficult to have respect for women. Seriously :sad:
butcher's hook Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 I've always had more income than everyone I've ever dated. I offer to pay usually out of simple necessity, and yeah, it bothers me. What do you mean you offer to pay out of simple necessity? I don't want someone to pay my way, though. Not really. To me, that just says that I'm not capable of standing on my own two feet. There were plenty of people when I was in my late teens/early 20s who were all too eager to try to buy my affection with money, dinners, drugs... and I cannot tell you how repugnant that whole mindset is. Neither do I, that we can agree on. I just want to see how generous a man is in the early stages this will denote how he is in many other aspect in the long run of the relationship. Look at what happend to the OP the guy won't even get a birthday gift, makes HER pay for his family's b-day gifts and completely takes her for granted. I would be petrified to form a longterm relationship with a man like that no matter how handsome and "nice" he appears to be to my friends. The main difference from the gay to hetero world is that hetero couples look to form families they date and get together with the long term potential to form a family unit, so in doing this we do take into account how we operate in terms of our financial management and how generous we are in those respects because this will carry over to how we are with a combined household, all the combined material assets and most importantly how generous we are with our children. So as a woman you take this into consideration early on. You know... the provider and committed partner vs a "ship crossing in the night"? I actually saw a women say in another thread "THIS MAN IS EMOTIONALLY PERFECT FOR ME. HE PAYS FOR EVERYTHING." That IS disgusting, I agree with you on that FULL ON! My guy doesn't pay for everything nor would I ever want to be a kept woman I am a career woman and I come with my own financial assets and independence it's still nice to be courted and asked out to dinner by a man who is romantically interested in you. We still go out on dates even though we could just as easily just stay home but it's fun to be courted. Sometimes he treats others I do.
Carm Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 Deal breakers from me: 1. Guys not paying on the first or second date. It doesn't have to be expensive. I once went on a first date (he asked me out) we had one drink each when the bill came he just sat there until it was ridiculous and I just grabbed and paid, oh he did insist on paying the tip. Jerk. 2. If you're giving more than you are getting in return and I'm not talking about money here. It's about emotional integrity. From the sound of your thread, he wouldn't have lasted long in my life.
caramel c Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 What is wrong with you people?????????? Just because you happen to have a vagina between your legs doesn't mean you're entitled to anything. Reading these sites makes it increasingly difficult to have respect for women. Seriously :sad: lol I'm sorry if I offended you, but I don't see anything about a relationship that is fair and even, or 50/50. Thats the kind of relationship you have with someone at work, not a romantic relationship. I don't want to be treated like a coworker, I want to be treated like a lady.
prettybaby Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 Ok, this is turning into the popular debate about whether men should pay for the first few dates or not, yada yada. Back to OP's situation; I'm thinking about 3 things here: This guy is lying to you about his financial situation; he's not making much money at all or he's in financial trouble, so he's leaching off of you.He's socially retarded, and honestly, if he's that clueless at his age, he'll never improve.How much time do you two spend together? Could he be leading a double life? I'm thinking it might be #2 and he's just a douche bag, but since I don't know your whole situation, #1 and #3 are might be worth considering.
butcher's hook Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 I don't see anything about a relationship that is fair and even, or 50/50. Thats the kind of relationship you have with someone at work, not a romantic relationship. I don't want to be treated like a coworker, I want to be treated like a lady. Yeah exactly, perfectly stated. There is no reason at all why a guy won't pay for the first few dates, other than he is a cheap self-aborbed jerk, case in point the OP's situation. We couldn't have aked for a more perfect example of what not paying early on represents long term.
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