Jealousy kills

[motive2002]

I honestly didn't know about my condition until 2 years into the relationship. It was a surprise, but it also kinda wasn't as it seemed to explain so much. When I went into the relationship, I felt I was ready and had met the right person and I was resolved to be "a good boy" and a "grownup" but I realize now I was idealizing the relationship because of how drunk on honeymoon wine I was. It's not his fault, but there are things he did in the relationship to make it a lot more pronounced.

 

I don't think what you describe is all that uncommon. You're beyond the honeymoon phase and moving into a different chapter of your relationship. Some people never survive past the honeymoon phase and just go bouncing from relationship to relationship going after that "drunk" feeling.

Every problem you face has an opportunity hidden somewhere inside it. You could have an opportunity to take your current relationship to a deeper level of intimacy that can only be shared between two people that have known each other for as long as you have. OR you can bag the whole thing and be free and single.

I'm just saying that I don't believe your approach to a open relationship this late in the game will be well received, and not seeing eye-to-eye on the subject is really no surprise. I've been where you are now, and in the end I decided I was unhappy and broke off the relationship. I tried to be the "good boy", and I was. The concept of an open relationship would have never appealed to my partner so it was a non-issue. I was unhappy in the relationship and wanted to date other people so I ended it.

[vox]

I think since you are HFA you just do not have these feelings and therefore cannot understand them. Yes jealousy is rooted in selfishness and insecurity, but the below statement that you made seems to be the embodiment of selfishness.

 

"I refuse to sacrifice my happiness and potential for experience for anyone else"

 

Perhaps I just don't understand your perspective but I don't see how a relationship can possibly work under those circumstances.

 

I guess it depends on what sort of relationship you want. If I wanted a relationship where I built my whole around someone, felt they were the alpha and omega of my life and expected the same from him. But, how ridiculous and unrealistic is that?

 

I don't want to put limits on my partner. I want him to explore the whole world and some of that will be hand-in-hand with me, and some of that will be on his own. I fell in love with that single person and I don't want to put his firefly light into a mason jar and put the lid on so tight he gets no oxygen and then DIES SLOWLY, WATCHING THE LIGHT SEEP OUT OF HIM UNTIL THERE'S NOTHING LEFT.

 

You know, kinda how most long term relationships go these days.

[vox]

I don't think what you describe is all that uncommon. You're beyond the honeymoon phase and moving into a different chapter of your relationship. Some people never survive past the honeymoon phase and just go bouncing from relationship to relationship going after that "drunk" feeling.

Every problem you face has an opportunity hidden somewhere inside it. You could have an opportunity to take your current relationship to a deeper level of intimacy that can only be shared between two people that have known each other for as long as you have. OR you can bag the whole thing and be free and single.

I'm just saying that I don't believe your approach to a open relationship this late in the game will be well received, and not seeing eye-to-eye on the subject is really no surprise. I've been where you are now, and in the end I decided I was unhappy and broke off the relationship. I tried to be the "good boy", and I was. The concept of an open relationship would have never appealed to my partner so it was a non-issue. I was unhappy in the relationship and wanted to date other people so I ended it.

 

We just had our first RC session yesterday. I'm intrigued to see where it goes.

[rudeaims]

You bring up a lot of good points on the table, Vox. Yet, there are a lot of consequences that one might bring to the relationship, if in fact sexual unfaithfulness took place. Now my fiancé has never physically ‘cheated’ on me, but if in so he had without the consent in which you speak of:

 

"I think I may need to, or we may need to explore other sexual avenues." I want him to come to me and tell me that, because if he's not getting something he needs, or something he thinks as an experience will enrich his life, I want him to have that.

 

…then there can be some personal stress toward myself.

 

Take 1: Most couples generally do not seek consent in which to speak to their partner for permission on their venturing different avenues. This might be in conclusion to your statements of the partner not feeling they can be open in this regard without losing their lover. Yet if it is decided on both partners that it is ok to be in an open relationship- fine. I have been there done that. I call it ‘dating’ with a- don’t ask don’t tell persona. It was great…when I was technically single. Yet when two people make a commitment to one another, it is usually spoken with the respect of keeping yourself for one another. I know my fiancé would not appreciate me flirting, kissing, and having sex etc. with other men.

 

The consequences of doing so can really be detrimental. What if he contracted an STD or impregnated another woman? That would rob me of bearing our first child or if he contracted an STD or HIV, I was unaware that I was indeed susceptible or to feel defensive in which I felt using a condom was needed for my protection. In term, if it was just kissing or flirting, which typically leads to an added interest for sex with another, this can rob me of my sexual gratification. If my lover is busy with someone else without my consent, I am going to be one horny bastard while he is just peachy. Most ‘cheaters’ would feel guilty and not provide their lover with the physical attention that is desired. This leads to the partner feeling in question of themselves. Why does he/she not desire me? Is it something I have done? Am I not attractive to him/her anymore? While you are sitting there bashing yourself the partner is feeling a new acceptance and disregards your feelings. If in fact it comes up there is either further dishonesty by denial of lack of interest/cheating or they get caught or they come clean and further worry their partner. This is an extremely selfish act.

 

Now as I have said to you before, I have a lot of gay friends. In terms of friends, I do not really care about how many people they sleep with, although, I will tease them of being a man-whore. Most gay people generally do not care for monogamous relations. Most states will not even marry gays. It is alarming as well in which statically gay males have a higher HIV rate than those who are heterosexual. This may be in conclusion with how they share your philosophy, a rather selfish, un-empathetic, liberal, and dangerous one to possess. I do enjoy hearing others opinions, but those beliefs are not for me to share in less I am single

[vox]

You bring up a lot of good points on the table, Vox. Yet, there are a lot of consequences that one might bring to the relationship, if in fact sexual unfaithfulness took place. Now my fiancé has never physically ‘cheated’ on me, but if in so he had without the consent in which you speak of:

 

"I think I may need to, or we may need to explore other sexual avenues." I want him to come to me and tell me that, because if he's not getting something he needs, or something he thinks as an experience will enrich his life, I want him to have that.

…then there can be some personal stress toward myself.

 

Take 1: Most couples generally do not seek consent in which to speak to their partner for permission on their venturing different avenues. This might be in conclusion to your statements of the partner not feeling they can be open in this regard without losing their lover. Yet if it is decided on both partners that it is ok to be in an open relationship- fine. I have been there done that. I call it ‘dating’ with a- don’t ask don’t tell persona. It was great…when I was technically single. Yet when two people make a commitment to one another, it is usually spoken with the respect of keeping yourself for one another. I know my fiancé would not appreciate me flirting, kissing, and having sex etc. with other men.

 

The consequences of doing so can really be detrimental. What if he contracted an STD or impregnated another woman? That would rob me of bearing our first child or if he contracted an STD or HIV, I was unaware that I was indeed susceptible or to feel defensive in which I felt using a condom was needed for my protection. In term, if it was just kissing or flirting, which typically leads to an added interest for sex with another, this can rob me of my sexual gratification. If my lover is busy with someone else without my consent, I am going to be one horny bastard while he is just peachy. Most ‘cheaters’ would feel guilty and not provide their lover with the physical attention that is desired. This leads to the partner feeling in question of themselves. Why does he/she not desire me? Is it something I have done? Am I not attractive to him/her anymore? While you are sitting there bashing yourself the partner is feeling a new acceptance and disregards your feelings. If in fact it comes up there is either further dishonesty by denial of lack of interest/cheating or they get caught or they come clean and further worry their partner. This is an extremely selfish act.

 

Now as I have said to you before, I have a lot of gay friends. In terms of friends, I do not really care about how many people they sleep with, although, I will tease them of being a man-whore. Most gay people generally do not care for monogamous relations. Most states will not even marry gays. It is alarming as well in which statically gay males have a higher HIV rate than those who are heterosexual. This may be in conclusion with how they share your philosophy, a rather selfish, un-empathetic, liberal, and dangerous one to possess. I do enjoy hearing others opinions, but those beliefs are not for me to share in less I am single J

 

Let's divide and conquer:

 

Most couples generally do not seek consent in which to speak to their partner for permission on their venturing different avenues. This might be in conclusion to your statements of the partner not feeling they can be open in this regard without losing their lover.

 

Of course this is. Common relationship/marriage "wisdom" says that you're only supposed to have eyes for your SO. And most people selfishly need that to bolster their own flagging confidence (imho). If people genuinely valued honesty and were more secure, then honesty would be a lot easier to put forth.

 

The consequences of doing so can really be detrimental. What if he contracted an STD or impregnated another woman? That would rob me of bearing our first child or if he contracted an STD or HIV, I was unaware that I was indeed susceptible or to feel defensive in which I felt using a condom was needed for my protection.

 

Everything you said here could happen anyway, and to a number of people in so-called committed monogamous relationships, will happen. Just because someone promised doesn't mean you're guaranteed fidelity, or honesty or anything. You're rolling the dice every day. There's a reason there are sayings like "It's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission."

 

This leads to the partner feeling in question of themselves. Why does he/she not desire me? Is it something I have done? Am I not attractive to him/her anymore? While you are sitting there bashing yourself the partner is feeling a new acceptance and disregards your feelings.

 

See, this is exactly what I mean. You build a world around someone and then expect them to prop you up. All responsibility for SELF-esteem and SELF-confidence gets thrown right out the window because you got into a relationship. You got a SO, not a lobotomy.

 

Most gay people generally do not care for monogamous relations. Most states will not even marry gays. It is alarming as well in which statically gay males have a higher HIV rate than those who are heterosexual. This may be in conclusion with how they share your philosophy, a rather selfish, un-empathetic, liberal, and dangerous one to possess.

 

As a gay man, while I will absolutely admit that we do enjoy our fun, just as many homosexuals share these values as heterosexuals do. As for being selfish, un-empathetic, liberal and dangerous... Well, it seems pretty selfish to put someone in a gilded box and treat them like a pet; only existing for your entertainment, amusement and need for constant cheerleading and reinforcement. That's pretty selfish seeming to me, personally.

 

Un-empathetic.... Not really. I empathize fully with all the miserable, bed-deathed, former multi-faceted people whose lifeforce, joie de vivre and will to live was drained a little every day until they became yet another middle aged, sexless, joyless creature going through the motions because of the demands of "love".

 

Liberal... ut oh, rude. You're sounding kinda Biblical there. Are you big on the ol' book of Fairy Tales?

 

Dangerous... well, walking outside of your house in the morning is dangerous. Getting into your car and going to work is dangerous. Life is full of risk and reward. I'd prefer to take the risk and go for the reward than live the safe, quiet, meek and mewling life. But that's just me.

[sally4sara]

Thanks! I read a book recently..."The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time". Loved it. And was fascinated with this boy's logical approach to reading emotion. He had to learn facial expressions and the coinciding emotion. Tongue-in-cheek, but interesting.

 

Excellent read; I was amazed at how well the book gave me the sense of constriction to things I do without thinking as well as showing me internal accomplishments I will never achieve.

[2sure]

[QUOTE=vox;2352656]I don't own him. I'm not taking prisoners in the hope of finding that one true person, SO I WILL NEVER LET HIM GO NO MATTER WHAT SO I WON'T DIE OLD AND ALONE OMG.

 

In my estimation, I'd much rather my partner be comfortable and trusting in me knowing he could come to me and tell me anything. Most people would (and do, if this board and ENA are any indication) react totally inappropriately and frankly selfishly if and when a partner says "I think I may need to, or we may need to explore other sexual avenues." I want him to come to me and tell me that, because if he's not getting something he needs, or something he thinks as an experience will enrich his life, I want him to have that.

 

I completely agree. I recently had to throw my husband out of his own home not because he had sex with other people, but because he lied to do it. And thats the thing...when someone cheats its not so much because they want to explore sexually its because they require the whole betraying someone else aspect...unless its hidden and secret , to a cheater, its just no good.

[meep1227]

I disagree with you. If you trully love someone jealousy happens. I'm bi but one of the first things my boyfriend told me when we started dating is that i can't do anything with other women because it's cheating. I respect that. I am willing to give that up for him. If the person you're with isn't willing to quit something for you like kissing or having sex with other people then they really shouldn't be in a relationship should they? they aren't ready to with only one person. If they have something they want to do with someone else then they should have enough respect for the person they are with to leave them or take a break in the relationship to get that out of their system. Jealousy is a human emotion you cannot get over it. No matter what (unless u dont care about feelings) u will feel jealousy. Some people feel it more then others.

[vox]

I disagree with you. If you trully love someone jealousy happens. I'm bi but one of the first things my boyfriend told me when we started dating is that i can't do anything with other women because it's cheating. I respect that. I am willing to give that up for him. If the person you're with isn't willing to quit something for you like kissing or having sex with other people then they really shouldn't be in a relationship should they? they aren't ready to with only one person. If they have something they want to do with someone else then they should have enough respect for the person they are with to leave them or take a break in the relationship to get that out of their system. Jealousy is a human emotion you cannot get over it. No matter what (unless u dont care about feelings) u will feel jealousy. Some people feel it more then others.

 

I don't feel it though. I want my partner to be happy. If that's with me, fantastic. If not, then I want him to find what will with my blessing. I'm not immature. I just approach relationships from a different perspective.

[meep1227]

I don't feel it though. I want my partner to be happy. If that's with me, fantastic. If not, then I want him to find what will with my blessing. I'm not immature. I just approach relationships from a different perspective.

 

If not with you then you shouldn't be in a relationship it's that simple... Be friends. Or even fwb.

[blair08]

Everyone is different. What one might do, another may not. What one might think, another may not. You may not get some people'e logic and they may not get yours. And so on.....

[loveslife]

I've always been of the mind that I want the person I'm with to be happy, even if that's not with me. And I'd want them to be honest about it with me.

 

But, yeah, then the relationship would end, right? What's the point in seeing someone else at the same time?

 

Interesting note: I discovered that this attitude of wanting the person to be happy even if not with me and not trying to get them to stay if they want to leave.... has made some feel I didn't care very much.

 

Oh and I agree with those who say that people who like to see someone else simultaneously tend to like to do so in secret.

[vox]

If not with you then you shouldn't be in a relationship it's that simple... Be friends. Or even fwb.

 

Well, if I'm incapable of jealousy, then I'm somehow not allowed to be in a relationship? Isn't that the teensiest bit judgmental?

[JackJack]

I knew a guy I went to school with a long time ago, who just simply didn't have a jealous bone in his body.

 

I remember another friend asking him why he didn't get jealous. His response was, and I quote: "I just don't give a damn enough to be jealous. It doesn't mean I don't care or love the person I'm in a relationship with. It just means there are some things in this world that i can not be bothered with to be jealous about."

[loveslife]

I think many can agree that jealousy is sad and selfish. This thread really confuses me though. I went back and re-read the OP. You're not talking about jealousy really. You're saying that you prefer what many call an Open Relationship. And that's fine. It's your right, your preference.

 

There's a big difference in many people's minds between being jealous and being monogamous. I don't think you should label people who want a committed, monogamous relationship as jealous.

[rudeaims]

I think many can agree that jealousy is sad and selfish. This thread really confuses me though. I went back and re-read the OP. You're not talking about jealousy really. You're saying that you prefer what many call an Open Relationship. And that's fine. It's your right, your preference.

 

There's a big difference in many people's minds between being jealous and being monogamous. I don't think you should label people who want a committed, monogamous relationship as jealous.

 

 

I completely agree with the above statement ^

As long as both parties are on the same page...there is nothing "wrong."

[Dexter Morgan]

I really don't understand all these threads of people being paranoid, or jealous about things their SO/H/W/partner/BF/GF does.

 

Now, I realize I come at this from a fundamental mental/emotional place, having Asperger's Syndrome, but let's examine this logically:

 

I am confident, mature, intelligent, attractive, SELF-SECURE and self-reliant. Because I know that I can do anything I set my mind to, have anyone I want and believe I bring a great deal to the table for a prospective partner, I do not get jealous. My goal for any relationship is that I want true honesty over things like (to me) outmoded and unrealistic concepts like monogamy.

 

If I love someone, I want him to thrive. I want him to learn and grow and experience everything life has to offer; some of those things with me, and some of those things on his own. Just because I'm in a relationship with someone, that doesn't mean I own him, or put demands on him to have eyes only for me, not to look at other people, or not to flirt with other people.

 

I don't own him. I'm not taking prisoners in the hope of finding that one true person, SO I WILL NEVER LET HIM GO NO MATTER WHAT SO I WON'T DIE OLD AND ALONE OMG.

 

In my estimation, I'd much rather my partner be comfortable and trusting in me knowing he could come to me and tell me anything. Most people would (and do, if this board and ENA are any indication) react totally inappropriately and frankly selfishly if and when a partner says "I think I may need to, or we may need to explore other sexual avenues." I want him to come to me and tell me that, because if he's not getting something he needs, or something he thinks as an experience will enrich his life, I want him to have that.

 

Otherwise, it gets buried and ends up like the literal thousands of threads here about cheating and infidelity. Physically speaking, being with one person sexually forever is not realistic, and frankly, clearly, DOES NOT WORK.

 

I mean, think about it. You could be in a relationship for 10 years. This person may have stuck with you through thick and thin. Been there for you in ways no one else was, or could be. Supported you financially when you were unable and allowed you to be there when he/she needed it too. And some of you yahoo crackers would up and divorce/dump this person if they happened to kiss someone else or sleep with someone else, or even bring up the possibility?

 

I think most of you people don't look at things logically. You're too busy wanting to be told how awesome you are and basically be a smug married (thank you, Bridget Jones) when you really should be smart enough, humble enough and brave enough to understand that the universe of your partner should not, and won't ever begin and end with you. To suggest otherwise, implies a culturally accepted, but really unhealthy and sad nonetheless, narcissism.

 

I've rambled on here, but basically, I think you people need to stop using your neuroses and insecurities to rule the roost on how you approach relationships and truly look at things objectively.

 

What do YOU think? Am I just a whore? A crazy autistic? Or might there actually be something to what I'm proposing?

 

after that long winded self-pat on the back, all i have to say is....oh brother:rolleyes:

[meep1227]

I never said anything about being jealous. I said that whats the point in being in a relationship if you want to sleep with or make out with other people. to me that makes no sense. being jealous has nothing to do with that. jealous just happens to some people. and like someone else said as long as both people agree to being in a non-open relationship then they shouldn't want to be with other people. if they end up wanting to be with others then switch paces and make it open or break it off.

[Gamine]

Vox, then why not just move on. Find a guy who shares your desire to be a lone wolf as the mood strikes and stop trying to convince the world that you have found some unique avenue to fulfillment. You are operating with a different chemistry and, truth be told, it is considered to be a form of a disability. But you are trying to get into the heads of those who don't share your disability.

 

No one is forcing you to be with this guy. And, truth be told, freedom does not come with a price. Not his. Not yours. Find a situation with a partner who can walk to the beat of your drum and act out all you want. But for heaven's sake stop trying to turn a situation upside down and inside out and stamp it as 'correct'. There are loads of gay guys who are into what you are talking about. If your fella isn't, then why don't you just leave him alone and find a dude who likes to troll the hook ups like you do.

 

Honestly. For being such a freebird you certainly seem to like being a control freak. In the 'voice of freedom' you want to hijack someone else's life, tell everyone else they're screwed up, and dictate the way life SHOULD be. Well, live the way you think life should be led and if your partner isn't cut from that mould than leave him alone and let him find the sort of relationship that suits him. You want to be a freebird? Then don't ask anyone to change or pay your price.

[Neutrino]

I read almost all the posts in this thread....

 

It sounds like a clash between 2 religions - each trying to convince the other their way is better. IMO different people make different choices - not the same thing will be suitable for everyone and there is no one ultimate truth.

 

BTW : because of my strong objection to religion - I loved the "Old book of Fairy-tales" line

 

My approach is different to all (and I do not plan to convince anyone that if it's better for me - it would be better for them too), my life is planned and built as an independent self-reliant person, if my partner wished to explore things I find objectionable, I do recognize the fact I can not enforce my will or make their decisions for them - however - equivalently I will not accept their decisions enforced on me either. I would let my partner make their own decision - and then make my own accordingly.

 

To my point of view this is a very clean and simple approach, of course different people want different things, and excluding exact sciences for a minute here - logic is also subjective....

 

My relationship is also going through changes I can not even define at this stage - so this subject caught my attention.

[rudeaims]

I read almost all the posts in this thread....

 

It sounds like a clash between 2 religions - each trying to convince the other their way is better. IMO different people make different choices - not the same thing will be suitable for everyone and there is no one ultimate truth.

 

BTW : because of my strong objection to religion - I loved the "Old book of Fairy-tales" line

 

My approach is different to all (and I do not plan to convince anyone that if it's better for me - it would be better for them too), my life is planned and built as an independent self-reliant person, if my partner wished to explore things I find objectionable, I do recognize the fact I can not enforce my will or make their decisions for them - however - equivalently I will not accept their decisions enforced on me either. I would let my partner make their own decision - and then make my own accordingly.

 

To my point of view this is a very clean and simple approach, of course different people want different things, and excluding exact sciences for a minute here - logic is also subjective....

 

My relationship is also going through changes I can not even define at this stage - so this subject caught my attention.

 

 

Too bad he threw "the ol book of fairy tales" line at me when I never said one thing on the Bible/religious views. I told him he had liberal views which of course he does! He is gay!

[Stall Tactics]

lol, The OP here is my boyfriend. I can't go into this stuff here because the therapist requested we spend more time communicating to each other rather than bitching about each other behind each other's backs.

 

But what an interesting thing to find.

[Dexter Morgan]

I never said anything about being jealous. I said that whats the point in being in a relationship if you want to sleep with or make out with other people. to me that makes no sense.

 

then why are you in a relationship with a buy you claim to be in love with, but are wanting a guy at your place of employment?