I JUST discovered Dr. Laura.

[BCCA]

Air kiss it is

 

I think we might have spent a lot of effort arguing over essentially nothing, but I appreciate a good conversation.

 

And I want to make sure you know that I dont just stick my penis into any willing hole, I have standards, and like I said, if Im dating a girl and Im not into it long term, I tell her and I bail. I know there are guys who just try and get laid, but there are just as many girls that go along with it hoping that sex will sway the guy into an LTR. Both are wrong.

 

Its funny, people are so much more transparent than they think they are, guys and girls alike. I never got why people always tried to play dumb or pull a fast one lol

 

Glad we reached an understanding, thanks for the amicable finish

[BCCA]

Ha. I don't think I actually completely agree with that. The problem is you seem to feel this way about all relationships. You are saying sex has nothing to do with the overall success of a relationship? You seem be speaking in general? Not all, but a lot of relationships do not work out because sex happened too early. It can cause issues.

 

This happened to myself once. When it happened to me, I started having major trust issues. I wondered if I was being used just for sex. I knew the we should have waited. I also realized I did not know this person much after all, and ended up getting hurt.

 

I don't know what it is, but it can screw things up if you want anything meaningful. First of all, you do not truly know the person enough to be that intimate yet. I think trust is the key. If you trust someone on the first few dates or so, then good for you.

 

I do know things happen sometimes, and sex can happen right away. Im not saying the relationship is necessarily doomed, but in a lot of cases it screws things up.

 

I think youre viewing sex as the problem, when in reality, it was the people involved. Ive had sex on the 3rd date and stayed with the girl 5 years, and Ive had sex after 2 months and lost interest for a myriad of other reasons.

 

I think, for me personally, when we have sex is irrelevant, I want to know about YOU and what makes your mind work. If we have sex after a couple of dates, or a couple of months, fine.

 

I will say that I do realize that there are a lot of creep guys out there that use women for sex by acting interested when they arent, and I appreciate your concern. But I can promise that if a guy is really into you, when you guys 'do it' really wont matter a whole lot, unless its on the first date or some other extreme. I just dont think you should get caught up in when you have sex, because youll probably miss other flags/signs along the way.

 

Do you see what Im saying?

[Gemini09]

And this is why the world is full of STD's.

 

Yes, I see what you are saying. Have a great day.

[Gemini09]

No wait. I'm not done

 

Some article I was reading is talking about it. I think it makes sense:

 

Wait to sleep with him

 

"Men do not really equate sex with relationships. The simple fact is that men fall in and out of lust with women all of the time. Just because he is sexually attracted to a girl, doesn't mean that he sees her as a potential long term mate. If you really want to have a lasting romance with a guy, make him wait to sleep with you. Couples need to build emotional bonds in order to weather storms and become stronger. Having sex too early in the relationship takes the attention away from getting to know each other's true personalities."

 

 

I think a lot of women, would like to wait to have sex, because this can assure them the guy truly cares about them, when the time comes to have sex. Not everyone needs that assurance, but I personally do. I would not want to have sex soon unless there was really an emotional connection. With that said, I know everyone is different.

[BCCA]

You point is fair enough, and trust me, well recieved. My only point is that waiting does no guarantee success.

 

And Im not saying jump his bones on the first date, I'm just saying the fact that he waited 2 months doesnt mean he'll stick around another 2.

 

Just curious, what do you consider a fair amount of time to wait, or do you just hold out as long as you can? I ask because Im curious, not looking to discard your opinion.

[butcher's hook]

Air kiss it is

 

 

And I want to make sure you know that I dont just stick my penis into any willing hole, I have standards, and like I said, if Im dating a girl and Im not into it long term, I tell her and I bail. I know there are guys who just try and get laid, but there are just as many girls that go along with it hoping that sex will sway the guy into an LTR. Both are wrong.

 

 

Glad we reached an understanding, thanks for the amicable finish

 

 

Ok that's good to hear, it was sounding there for a bit like sex was the the only focus or she was out. Glad we cleared that up.

 

And for us, or me, it's not about using a guy or manpulating him into liking us, because it's like you said you either like someone or you don't and time won't trick you into liking them more. It's about taking the time to really get to know the person so that when you are intimate with them it is that much more special. Sex with someone you care about is SO much better than when it is with someone you know nothing about. For me it is at least.

 

Anyway, glad we came around too. Fight hard and make up harder! ;)

Overall it was a good discussion.

[Isolde]

I haven't read any of her books but I've read a couple summaries. Some of her advice really makes a lot of sense and I like that she reasserts the significance of gender differences. But (correct me if I'm wrong) she doesn't seem to deal with some of the realities of modern life, i.e. it usually takes two steady incomes to raise a family.

 

I wonder what she'd say about dating... that would be interesting.

[Woggle]

Yikes you went off the deepend there.

 

That was not the point of my comment it was to demonstrate that no strings attached sex for women generally really doesn't exist, there are are few exceptions. We are wired differently.

 

@BCCA I thought you said you didn't feel the need to debate this anymore?

 

I don't feel that I went off the deep end. For most women wanting more after sex is not about attachment or falling in love but more about a woman having to have something that is out of reach for her. Once she gets what she wants she gets bored and does not want it anymore.

[Isolde]

I don't feel that I went off the deep end. For most women wanting more after sex is not about attachment or falling in love but more about a woman having to have something that is out of reach for her. Once she gets what she wants she gets bored and does not want it anymore.

 

If a woman likes a guy's personality and is attracted to him--FWB will most likely make her want an R. If the woman's indifferent to the guy's personality but is attracted to him--she'll probably get somewhat attached but not for long and might just chase him for the heck of it. Either way, bad idea.

[Star Gazer]

Phew...glad you don't think I LOOK like her!

 

Nah, I'd never say that!

 

Why were you loath to admit it, SG?

 

Because on the one hand, I'm all for equality and treating the genders the same, giving them equal power and value, blah blah blah... and sometimes Dr. L's advice has a flavor of...what's the word...subservience. That's a harsh word, but I think you know what I mean.

 

On the other hand, I really do believe (and agree with Dr. L) that men and women are just too different to expect equal treatment, equal expectations, equal needs, equal everything. And as much as she may advocate "taking care of a man," in one way, I know she also advocates that a man "provide for his woman" as well.

 

I guess I just struggle to find the balance between true equality and old-fashioned values.

 

For the most part though, it really does come down to common sense.

[Thaddeus]

I don't know if this has been mentioned, as I didn't see it in the thread, but her doctorate has nothing whatsoever to do with psychology or counselling or anything of the sort.

 

She got her PhD in physiology; her doctoral thesis is apparently entitled, Effects of Insulin on 3-0 Methylglucose Transport in Isolated Rat Adipocytes.

 

What rat insulin has to do with interpersonal relationships is anybody's guess.

[New Again]

Nah, I'd never say that!

 

 

 

Because on the one hand, I'm all for equality and treating the genders the same, giving them equal power and value, blah blah blah... and sometimes Dr. L's advice has a flavor of...what's the word...subservience. That's a harsh word, but I think you know what I mean.

 

On the other hand, I really do believe (and agree with Dr. L) that men and women are just too different to expect equal treatment, equal expectations, equal needs, equal everything. And as much as she may advocate "taking care of a man," in one way, I know she also advocates that a man "provide for his woman" as well.

 

I guess I just struggle to find the balance between true equality and old-fashioned values.

 

For the most part though, it really does come down to common sense.

Star Gazer, so far, this is exactly how I feel also, and I'm struggling with it a bit. It DOES seem to make some sense, but, well...there's a pretty big "but"

[New Again]

I don't know if this has been mentioned, as I didn't see it in the thread, but her doctorate has nothing whatsoever to do with psychology or counselling or anything of the sort.

 

She got her PhD in physiology; her doctoral thesis is apparently entitled, Effects of Insulin on 3-0 Methylglucose Transport in Isolated Rat Adipocytes.

 

What rat insulin has to do with interpersonal relationships is anybody's guess.

 

I love that you either know this, or checked into it! I always check into things like that also; haven't made it that far with this one though, so I'm glad you pointed it out. Little busy with work this week!

[Isolde]

I guess I just struggle to find the balance between true equality and old-fashioned values.

 

I think many women do feel the same way. Honestly, I feel like until America does a better job helping mothers achieve a work life balance, people have no business blaming frazzled mothers for being "feminists" and "ignoring their children" for their jobs. Few have the luxury of being SAHM's or part time, right now.

[Isolde]

 

Isolde it's not up to America to help people to find a balance. That's up to each family. Maybe some people should think twice about whether they can even afford to have a family you know?

 

I don't mean the American government but I was more talking about American society as a whole, our workplaces, etc. I do agree that the primary responsibility lies with families to decide what's right for them.

 

All I'm saying is it's unfair to say that women are feminist workaholic b&*#@$ when many of them really do need to work full time jobs for their kids. I do agree many people have way too many kids for their incomes, but I don't think that not being able to be a SAHM is a reason not to have ANY kids. Whatever... I basically agree with what SG said, that Dr. Laura makes some very compelling points but is a trifle old fashioned to be really popular with the latest generations. (In addition, she's controversial on gay issues, etc. which does not sit well with many of my generation.)

 

I do see the appeal of being demure in a relationship, believe me. But that's not going to work for everyone, all the time, in every situation. Women have a lot to balance in today's world, so I think people are sometimes a little harsh on them--both feminists and traditionalists, for what it's worth.

[Touche]

Oh yeah, Isolde. Totally agree with you on all counts. No question there.

[sexibanez]

what a fascinating thread, i learned so much, thanks!