Do I ask for the truth?

[Spark1111]

True intimacy is based on NO SECRETS! Not even of the affair.

 

His shame and guilt are not more important than your pain. In fact, many cheaters use their remorse as a deflection from truly being accountable for their actions and the reasons that led them to cross those boundaries.

 

Understanding WHY they crossed those boundaries in the first place is the really, really hard work. Many do not want to do it, or are not ready to do it for a very long time.

 

It still needs to be done, IMHO.

 

He avoids conflict, and conflict avoiders are more likely to cheat and cheat again.

 

Get to counseling, both Individual and Marital. Learn how to get and receive the details you need.

 

Every time another lie, or omission of details occurs, the recovery clock sets squarely back to zero. Trust is NOT being restored.

[Snowflower]

Why would you even want to know? You will just hurt more, and obsess over small details that are of no importance.

 

Focus on the thing that IS important:

 

Trying to fix both your lives.

 

 

This is probably very similar to what mnm's husband is telling her.

 

And this is exactly what is wrong with their recovery...mnm is being told to 'forget about it' 'get over it' or 'its not important' when nothing could be further from the truth.

 

mnm needs to be able to find out the answers to what she needs to know...and her husband needs to provide this information to her. It isn't a matter of finding out painful details...mnm will determne for herself what she needs to know...it is a matter of finding out the TRUTH.

[Owl]

Why would you even want to know? You will just hurt more, and obsess over small details that are of no importance.

 

Focus on the thing that IS important:

 

Trying to fix both your lives.

 

For a lot of people (myself included)...if I'm being asked to forgive something...I need to know what it is I'm forgiving.

 

This is a very, very common 'requirement' for BS's in order to forgive and rebuild trust after an affair.

 

A big part of the pain a BS deals with is the DECEPTION. It's rebuilding the trust. In order to rebuild the trust, they need the WS to be honest NOW about what they were lying about before.

 

They need to see openness and honesty NOW...where it wasn't before. It's a clear sign of a desire to recover. And in this case, his complete lack of desire to give this information is a big red flag that he's NOT truly wanting to recover the marriage.

[misternoname]

"I am a little worried, he has said if I bring it up again, he's leaving because i still am living in the past. Like I said in my original post, I say stuff when I've drank, that's not how I want to approach this."

 

Dispicable! If you don't "drop" it he's leaving??? Wake up...he's resorting to very low tactics with that statement. Basically he's telling you that you're never going to get the whole truth and nothing but the truth and you best like it. I'm willing to venture that 90%+ of EA's are actually full blown affairs. I can't imagine that any hetrosexual man really wants just someone they can confide in, lean on, etc. Men want sex...it may be different for women but guys are guys and they don't enter into illicit relationships to just have a "buddy."

 

Assume the worst and then make your decision. But don't lose your dignity in the process. Based on your posts I can't imagine why you'd subject yourself to this kind of relationship but that's up to you.

 

BTW...if a cheater "gets away" with one they're alot more likely to do it again in the future. I was the victim of multiple affairs from my ex wife. I always forgave and forgot and never truly put my foot down. The result was a marriage that was peppered with infidelity. I'm so glad that part of my life is OVER...just wish I had got out along time ago.

[eyeswide]

Hi mnm --

 

I have experience on both sides of this issue -- I hope it will help.

 

And first, let me offer this caveat -- you can NEVER know EVERYTHING...even if you give the guy truth serum...you can't get inside his head and his heart in the moment that this siht was going down -- (he can't even get there anymore either) and I began to realize that THAT was what I was trying to achieve because then I thought I'd finally have the answer to the question "HOW DID THIS HAPPEN????"

 

But you just can't get there...

 

So -- that said:

 

1) I'm a WS whose husband knows most but not all and he hasn't asked for much. At this point I sometimes think it would be better to give him more of the details -- then they wouldn't gnaw at me anymore, but I realize that if I did it without his wanting it, it would only be for my own conscience cleansing. He knows the key truths -- the outline of the relationship and the main things that happened -- just not a lot of the hurtful little details. I can't really figure out why he would need to know anymore and I know that I'm over the relationship and would never go back to it or to hurting my spouse again for anything. And he doesn't seem to be tortured by it anymore -- for a while he asked me things, but he's really stopped asking me questions and when I try to demonstrate that I'm open to saying more, he doesn't run away from it but he just doesn't seem to need to know.

 

2) I'm a BS who knows just about everything and you know what? I'm obsessed with their relationship, haunted by it, even, and spend WAY more time than I should thinking about it. I go through their emails in my head over and over because i've practically memorized them. I think about them together when I'm making love to my husband.

 

So, sure, this tendency to obsess could just be a difference in personality but it seems possible that it is a result of knowing too much? Something to think about...

 

I'd say to you, what would come of knowing more? Are there any truths that are game changers for you? If no, why not let him know that? If it's really a matter of "It won't change whether my level of commitment to my marriage but I think it will bring me piece of mind to really know X,Y, and Z," then offer him amnesty for telling you that truth...do it in the presence of your MC so he or she can facilitate.

[redtail]

Mnm, you've received a lot of good advise here. You're in the middle of this, so I understand that from your perspective, it's difficult to remain objective. Unlike most of us, we have hindsight to go on. Your scenario has not yet played itself out, and I know how it feels to be uncertain of the outcome.

 

You want it work out, so rocking the boat seems counter productive. But in my opinion, you have very little information to base your decisions on. Excuse my frankness, but the lesbian story is horsesh*t. The rest of the story is vague at best. So, in my opinion, you need a safe place to get at least more of the truth, because I know you won't get the whole truth. That place would be MC if possible.

 

Have a plan, the truth could change your perspective, and that's okay. Best of luck to you.

[Dexter Morgan]

Do I ask for the whole truth when things are going good, and he's trying so hard, or do I let it go.

 

you don't need the whole truth. he's lying to you anyway. just assume the worst, cuz more than likely, thats what happened.

 

details don't matter. he is a cheater

 

 

IF I ask, how do I go about it without a huge blowup on his part.

 

why would he blow up? he should be showing the utmost humility and humbleness. if he blows up because you don't have the answers you want....well thats just too damn bad for his cheating ass.

 

if he blows up because you are asking him questions BECAUSE of what HE DID....then maybe he needs to move out.

 

 

 

My friends tell me in order to let it go, I need to know and because he changed stories so many times, I can't finish healing.

 

honestly, you never really will heal all the way. You can get back to some sort of normalcy, but there will always be his cheating eating away at you even on the most minute level.

 

and you definitely will never forget. so question is....why settle for that?

 

 

Am I opening a can of worms

 

no, the can of worms was one that your H opened. Cant open a can that has already been opened.

 

 

or do I leave it alone?

 

it doesn't really matter. whether you question him, or whether you leave it alone, you still have his cheating that will enter your mind from time to time. so it doesn't really matter. this will never go away.

 

not saying this to depress you...just trying to get you to think....is it worth it? Why stay with him? Isn't there a better life, and a better man out there for you? Answer to the latter is a most definite "yes".

[2sure]

Ask all you want, he isnt capable of giving you the truth. Just doesnt have that skill. He will admit only to what you irrefutably know , or to the minimum amount he has to just to sound credible. Asking for and receiving the truth is an exercise in frustration. If you can forgive him, making getting the truth a condition of that...just isnt really going to happen. What he says might satisfy you temporarily, but it will not sit well forever.

[silktricks]

That is how I am. Everytime there is a new twist, I think about it more. Did it help you? You're right about memories. The funny thing, and maybe most of the reason I've dealt with it better than most, is that he was drunk most of the time when talking/texting or being around her. Just can't see how you can develop a relationship with beer goggles on.

 

How did you go about asking with out causing a huge argument cuz I want to do it right. He can be very open when its the right timing. Whats bad is that he knows me so well, he can tell that something is bothering me and he so insecure that I will go elsewhere.

 

I bolded that line - because I didn't care about the size of the argument. Though I hoped our marriage would recover I wasn't as worried about that as I was worried about staying sane. So - I asked and asked and asked whatever I felt I needed to ask at each moment. I didn't care what he thought about my broken heart and questioning because he caused the situation... so it was up to him to either help me solve it - or not. If he would have chosen to not help me work through it, then it would have meant that neither our marriage nor my sanity was as important to him as he said they were.

 

It was up to him to prove to me that he was completely whole-souled committed to fixing our marriage. And he did.

 

In some ways I would think everything happening when he was drunk could help - as long as he never again drinks when you aren't there..... I would certainly agree with you about it not being a "real" relationship in any way.

 

I don't doubt that he's insecure now. He's probably scared that you'll do the same back to him - I know my H was. Which showed how little he knew me in some very important ways. We had some looonnnnggg discussions about that as part of our recovery, too.

[mnm]

Hi mnm --

 

I have experience on both sides of this issue -- I hope it will help.

 

And first, let me offer this caveat -- you can NEVER know EVERYTHING...even if you give the guy truth serum...you can't get inside his head and his heart in the moment that this siht was going down -- (he can't even get there anymore either) and I began to realize that THAT was what I was trying to achieve because then I thought I'd finally have the answer to the question "HOW DID THIS HAPPEN????"

 

But you just can't get there...

 

So -- that said:

 

1) I'm a WS whose husband knows most but not all and he hasn't asked for much. At this point I sometimes think it would be better to give him more of the details -- then they wouldn't gnaw at me anymore, but I realize that if I did it without his wanting it, it would only be for my own conscience cleansing. He knows the key truths -- the outline of the relationship and the main things that happened -- just not a lot of the hurtful little details. I can't really figure out why he would need to know anymore and I know that I'm over the relationship and would never go back to it or to hurting my spouse again for anything. And he doesn't seem to be tortured by it anymore -- for a while he asked me things, but he's really stopped asking me questions and when I try to demonstrate that I'm open to saying more, he doesn't run away from it but he just doesn't seem to need to know.

 

2) I'm a BS who knows just about everything and you know what? I'm obsessed with their relationship, haunted by it, even, and spend WAY more time than I should thinking about it. I go through their emails in my head over and over because i've practically memorized them. I think about them together when I'm making love to my husband.

 

So, sure, this tendency to obsess could just be a difference in personality but it seems possible that it is a result of knowing too much? Something to think about...

 

I'd say to you, what would come of knowing more? Are there any truths that are game changers for you? If no, why not let him know that? If it's really a matter of "It won't change whether my level of commitment to my marriage but I think it will bring me piece of mind to really know X,Y, and Z," then offer him amnesty for telling you that truth...do it in the presence of your MC so he or she can facilitate.

 

 

I know how it happened, we stopped being a couple and just lived in the same house with kids. Whatever the truth is is not going to be a game changer for me, won't change the fact that we can work this out. Especially because of the extinuating circumstances(don't flip out please, but it was a bad couple years for both of us). I do want piece of mind. I don't need every detail, just want the whole story w/o the bs changing of stories.

[mnm]

I bolded that line - because I didn't care about the size of the argument. Though I hoped our marriage would recover I wasn't as worried about that as I was worried about staying sane. So - I asked and asked and asked whatever I felt I needed to ask at each moment. I didn't care what he thought about my broken heart and questioning because he caused the situation... so it was up to him to either help me solve it - or not. If he would have chosen to not help me work through it, then it would have meant that neither our marriage nor my sanity was as important to him as he said they were.

 

It was up to him to prove to me that he was completely whole-souled committed to fixing our marriage. And he did.

 

In some ways I would think everything happening when he was drunk could help - as long as he never again drinks when you aren't there..... I would certainly agree with you about it not being a "real" relationship in any way.

 

I don't doubt that he's insecure now. He's probably scared that you'll do the same back to him - I know my H was. Which showed how little he knew me in some very important ways. We had some looonnnnggg discussions about that as part of our recovery, too.

 

Thanks, I think if I push, in the right way, right time when things are calm and we are bonding, I can talk with him. I just happen to do some of it the wrong way, which I am working on changing. I have a habit of just storming in and letting loose, not a good way to open communication.

 

Last night I was having a really hard time with it because of my friend and I's discussion. He kept asking me what was wrong, he knows me too well. It wasnt the time or the place because our kids were up and it was a long day after work. He was so sweet and loving and caring to me last night and I wanted to lay into him. I kept it to myself for when it is the right time. If I would have let it out in the wrong way or blasted him (which is what I wanted to do) it would have not been productive or good for the kids.

 

It's funny how close our stories sound. I have pushed him in earlier months almost trying to sabotage (subconciously) our relationship to see how he'd react. If he'd stay or go. He stayed.

 

Thanks again