mnm Posted August 25, 2009 Posted August 25, 2009 OK, so I posted a couple weeks ago and got great advice. Here's another question. I told my story last post. He has been trying so hard to make it right with me. Tells me he loves me, rebuilding trust, etc. Everything that he is supposed to do. It's been 4 months since it's been over. Here is my question, I have never gotten the whole truth out of him. In fact the stories have changed when we've talked. The day after I made a comment he told me his EA was lesbian (yeah right!). The stories are never consistent. Do I ask for the whole truth when things are going good, and he's trying so hard, or do I let it go. IF I ask, how do I go about it without a huge blowup on his part. My friends tell me in order to let it go, I need to know and because he changed stories so many times, I can't finish healing. Am I opening a can of worms, or do I leave it alone? I'm torn. There have been so many discrepancies, my mind goes into over time trying to figure out the truth. I think he hasn't told me because he doesn't want to hurt me. He's very remorseful. What do you think?
Mz. Pixie Posted August 25, 2009 Posted August 25, 2009 You can ask for it but you may not get it. Many cheaters are never 100 percent truthful. You need to ask for whatever details you want to know and if he's serious about recovery he'll tell you what you want to know. Be prepared that if he does tell the truth it's going to be very painful to hear.
Author mnm Posted August 25, 2009 Author Posted August 25, 2009 True. My counselor said why do you want to know details, they'll just stick in your head, but doesn't he need to come clean for himself? My friend gets in my head and makes me think more things happened than what he told me. Drunken words are sober thoughts and when he's been drinking and were having intense conversation, he swears he never touched her and he is so remorseful, I have heard him sobbing in his sleep after we've talked. He's sworn he will never hurt me again. Maybe I should accept what he says. Like I said he's trying so hard, I know his conscience is bothering him, would he feel better if he told me?
TaraMaiden Posted August 25, 2009 Posted August 25, 2009 He's still lying? You know he's still lying? You think he'll voluntarily give you the truth just because you ask him? Think again... If he's still lying, he's hiding something. Why? Either because he's trying to protect you from more pain, which I personally find unlikely - although he may give that as a primary reason - or as is more likely, he's trying to cover his tracks because what he did was shameful - and he doesn't want to open up and tell you, because it makes him feel more guilty. "Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practise to deceive".... He's setting up a huge mound of problems for himself, because liars have to remember what they have said. Your mission - should you decide to accept it - is whether to continue reconciling, in spite of his obvious dishonesty - or just end it, because if you can't trust him now, he'll never be trustworthy in the relationship. Your choice. make it with eyes wide open, you hear?
Author mnm Posted August 25, 2009 Author Posted August 25, 2009 He's trying to rebuild my trust. I don't know if I find the truth, I can finish healing? Or am I beating a dead horse? I want to know when and where. Do I wait a while? He thinks things are going great, were moving ahead and to a certain extent we are, but why is there this block I have problems getting past? IF it all comes out, is it over? I want us to work, we have had to many good years together not to work this out. Marriage can be stronger after something like this, if I don't get the truth, am I going to spend my whole life wondering?
TaraMaiden Posted August 25, 2009 Posted August 25, 2009 You don't get it. I'm not even going there. What I am asking you to consider, is: is his lying acceptable to you? Are you prepared to ignore it and plough on regardless (knowing he is still deceiving you) or realise he is a liar, and you're still going to go out with him?
silktricks Posted August 25, 2009 Posted August 25, 2009 He's trying to rebuild my trust. I don't know if I find the truth, I can finish healing? Or am I beating a dead horse? I want to know when and where. Do I wait a while? He thinks things are going great, were moving ahead and to a certain extent we are, but why is there this block I have problems getting past? IF it all comes out, is it over? I want us to work, we have had to many good years together not to work this out. Marriage can be stronger after something like this, if I don't get the truth, am I going to spend my whole life wondering? Some people have to know, some don't. Only you know which of those people you are. I, personally had to know that I had the truth, as every time the story changed it set me back to zero. But that was me. Still, even saying that I doubt that anyone on the outside of a situation ever really knows the truth. Memories fade, stories twist from what they were to what we wish they were - or sometimes what we are afraid they were. Truth is, that maybe they don't even know the truth anymore... So we're left chasing an elusive shadow.
Owl Posted August 25, 2009 Posted August 25, 2009 If you need to know the full details of the affair, tht's fine. Many people do. If that's the case, then you need to communicate that need to him clearly, unmistakeably, and along with that he needs to clearly understand the depth/severity of that need. He may or may not respond honestly. But then YOU determine whether or not that's acceptable, and if it's not, what you're going to do about it. In other words...you need to tell him you need this from him to rebuild the trust, and he needs to understand what will happen if he doesn't meet this need.
Author mnm Posted August 25, 2009 Author Posted August 25, 2009 Some people have to know, some don't. Only you know which of those people you are. I, personally had to know that I had the truth, as every time the story changed it set me back to zero. But that was me. Still, even saying that I doubt that anyone on the outside of a situation ever really knows the truth. Memories fade, stories twist from what they were to what we wish they were - or sometimes what we are afraid they were. Truth is, that maybe they don't even know the truth anymore... So we're left chasing an elusive shadow. That is how I am. Everytime there is a new twist, I think about it more. Did it help you? You're right about memories. The funny thing, and maybe most of the reason I've dealt with it better than most, is that he was drunk most of the time when talking/texting or being around her. Just can't see how you can develop a relationship with beer goggles on. How did you go about asking with out causing a huge argument cuz I want to do it right. He can be very open when its the right timing. Whats bad is that he knows me so well, he can tell that something is bothering me and he so insecure that I will go elsewhere.
Author mnm Posted August 25, 2009 Author Posted August 25, 2009 You don't get it. I'm not even going there. What I am asking you to consider, is: is his lying acceptable to you? Are you prepared to ignore it and plough on regardless (knowing he is still deceiving you) or realise he is a liar, and you're still going to go out with him? I get it. No it's not acceptable, I don't like it, but don't know how to approach it the right way, so it doesn't do more harm than good.
MistyK Posted August 25, 2009 Posted August 25, 2009 I get it. No it's not acceptable, I don't like it, but don't know how to approach it the right way, so it doesn't do more harm than good. He broke your trust. But it sounds like you are afraid that he will abandon you if you ask for the truth. If he is truly dedicated to making things work with you, he may get annoyed, but he'll get with the program and get honest. If you ignore what appears to be his continued deception, you may always wonder and I think it's hard to rebuild trust when you're missing some "bricks".
TaraMaiden Posted August 25, 2009 Posted August 25, 2009 "Ok bUddy: Get this: I do love you, but you are still lying to me. No, don't deny it and make it worse. So - you either stop - period - tell me the whole truth - or it ends here, today. make your mind up." And see what the response is. If he goes shame-faced, and apologises, and promises to tell the truth, then wait and see. if he protests, says you're being unfair, demanding, unreasonable, or tries to turn it round on you - then he will never change. Sometimes, you have to be tough.... I should know.....!
Author mnm Posted August 25, 2009 Author Posted August 25, 2009 I am a little worried, he has said if I bring it up again, he's leaving because i still am living in the past. Like I said in my original post, I say stuff when I've drank, that's not how I want to approach this. I know he wont leave, I don't like rocking the boat (abandonment issues, long story). And don't everyone flip, I just need to know how to go about it.
PhoenixRise Posted August 25, 2009 Posted August 25, 2009 If he is still lying to you then he is NOT trying to rebuild your trust. He is trying to feed you sh** amd make you like it. The rebuilding of trust includes complete transparancy and complete honesty. AND on top of all of this, he is threatening to leave you if you continue to press the issue. He sounds like a man who still has something to hide. Please keep your eyes open.
foreal Posted August 25, 2009 Posted August 25, 2009 I am a little worried, he has said if I bring it up again, he's leaving because i still am living in the past. Like I said in my original post, I say stuff when I've drank, that's not how I want to approach this. I know he wont leave, I don't like rocking the boat (abandonment issues, long story). And don't everyone flip, I just need to know how to go about it. Are you and your H in Marriage Counseling? If not, go! And that is where you can bring up these issues- a neutral ground with an objective moderator. And don't drink before you go! That your H threatens to leave if you bring up the subject is highly suspect...that you bring it up while drinking is self destructive to you and your M. I am sorry to say but there was most likely a physical affair as well and he just doesn't want to hurt you further. Find a MC who has specific experience dealing w/ infidelity- go see this person and in the session, bring up this subject. good luck! you need the truth, you deserve it the truth, your M will not heal unless your H gives it to you.
Author mnm Posted August 25, 2009 Author Posted August 25, 2009 If he is still lying to you then he is NOT trying to rebuild your trust. He is trying to feed you sh** amd make you like it. The rebuilding of trust includes complete transparancy and complete honesty. AND on top of all of this, he is threatening to leave you if you continue to press the issue. He sounds like a man who still has something to hide. Please keep your eyes open. When he has something to hide do you mean still now, or he hasn't been completely honest with everything before? I know its over now, I can tell that. If he got it out in the open, do you think he could deal with it better? I have talked to him about what his issues were with me and it doesn't hurt, it used to and if would bring them up again, it just a way of healing and I understand that. I think he told me most of the truth at the beginning, he said they almost had a physical thing, but as time went on, he made more light of the situation, like time fades the memories?
Owl Posted August 25, 2009 Posted August 25, 2009 OK, you need to take back the control here. Why does HE get to set the tone for recovery? It does NOT work that way!!!!! Tell him point blank that if he wants to leave rather than actually work on recovering the marriage...he knows the way out. Seriously...do NOT let him control this situation...because you will NOT recover your marriage if you do. INSIST on the things that you need to recover your marriage. Marriage counseling, NC with the OW, "open book" honesty, full access to all his communications, a complete understanding of HOW he conducted the affair, etc... If he refuses, then you know that your marriage is not recoverable...and it's time to let him go. And he needs to know that this is where you stand.
2sunny Posted August 25, 2009 Posted August 25, 2009 If he is still lying to you then he is NOT trying to rebuild your trust. He is trying to feed you sh** amd make you like it. The rebuilding of trust includes complete transparancy and complete honesty. AND on top of all of this, he is threatening to leave you if you continue to press the issue. He sounds like a man who still has something to hide. Please keep your eyes open. i think his lack of honesty and unwillingness to be open is hindering your moving forward. if my man did this to me i would tell him it's over. in fact, mine did do it this way - and i should have ended it the first time. ten years after - he did it again and i immediately divorced him knowing he wasn't capable of honesty and being faithful. he never intended to heal the marriage - he just wanted me to accept him cheating and lying like it was all ok. i put my foot down because he never gave me the truth the first time, so i was inclined to believe the second time would just be a cover up as well. a cover up he wanted me to accept as "good enough - even though i didn't have all the info i needed to heal."
Gamine Posted August 25, 2009 Posted August 25, 2009 OK, so I posted a couple weeks ago and got great advice. Here's another question. I told my story last post. He has been trying so hard to make it right with me. Tells me he loves me, rebuilding trust, etc. Everything that he is supposed to do. It's been 4 months since it's been over. Here is my question, I have never gotten the whole truth out of him. In fact the stories have changed when we've talked. The day after I made a comment he told me his EA was lesbian (yeah right!). The stories are never consistent. Do I ask for the whole truth when things are going good, and he's trying so hard, or do I let it go. IF I ask, how do I go about it without a huge blowup on his part. My friends tell me in order to let it go, I need to know and because he changed stories so many times, I can't finish healing. Am I opening a can of worms, or do I leave it alone? I'm torn. There have been so many discrepancies, my mind goes into over time trying to figure out the truth. I think he hasn't told me because he doesn't want to hurt me. He's very remorseful. What do you think? Do you want to live a lie or live in truth? Do you want to make one of the most important life decisions based upon facts or fallacy?
Author mnm Posted August 25, 2009 Author Posted August 25, 2009 OK, you need to take back the control here. Why does HE get to set the tone for recovery? It does NOT work that way!!!!! Tell him point blank that if he wants to leave rather than actually work on recovering the marriage...he knows the way out. Seriously...do NOT let him control this situation...because you will NOT recover your marriage if you do. INSIST on the things that you need to recover your marriage. Marriage counseling, NC with the OW, "open book" honesty, full access to all his communications, a complete understanding of HOW he conducted the affair, etc... If he refuses, then you know that your marriage is not recoverable...and it's time to let him go. And he needs to know that this is where you stand. Thanks Owl, he has done the NC, I have full access to his communications. I doubt the marriage counseling, though. He's never expressed his feelings, emotions, problems he's going through with me. He keeps it all in side. Has for the entire 14 years we've been together. It takes a lot to get him to communicate. He keeps saying "You act like I actually slept with her. I know I broke your trust, but it's over it's been over and it will never happen again."
Owl Posted August 25, 2009 Posted August 25, 2009 But again he doesn't understand what you need to recover. And that's part of what an MC can help the two of you deal with. And again...HE is the one who 'screwed up'. HE doesn't get to set the terms of recovery. HE doesn't tell you what he will or won't do in order to rebuild your trust and your marriage. If you let it work this way, he WILL cheat on you again. YOU need to be strong. You need to INSIST on what you need...not want, and make sure you know the difference...but insist on what you need to recover your marriage. Tell him what those needs are...and INSIST that he meet them, or that he gets out. Odds are real high that he doesn't want to divorce...but he knows that the THREAT of doing so will keep you in check. Stop letting him threaten you with this...
Author mnm Posted August 25, 2009 Author Posted August 25, 2009 Thanks again Owl. I have always been the type to not stand up for myself in all my relationships (family especially). He tells me all the time to stand up to my dad because of how he treats me. Says how can you let people walk all over you. How is what my H did any different?, but worse. He wants me to be strong and stand up for myself, then that is what I am going to have to do with him. He doesnt want a divorce, he loves me, but we're never going to get past this completely. We've stopped talking deeply lately and that worries me, not that it going to happen again, but haven't had the time.
Author mnm Posted August 25, 2009 Author Posted August 25, 2009 I have to leave for work, but keep these coming, I really need all the help I can get. It's funny, I think things are getting better, and they are we've come a long way, it just this is a block.
MistyK Posted August 25, 2009 Posted August 25, 2009 He's never expressed his feelings, emotions, problems he's going through with me. He keeps it all in side. Has for the entire 14 years we've been together. It takes a lot to get him to communicate. Hmm. He's got some serious intimacy issues. Is he in individual counseling? Sounds like he will need it.
utterer of lies Posted August 25, 2009 Posted August 25, 2009 What do you think? Why would you even want to know? You will just hurt more, and obsess over small details that are of no importance. Focus on the thing that IS important: Trying to fix both your lives.
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