Have you ever entered an affair (not ONS) w/o feelings?

[aeh]

Has anyone ever entered into an affair without having feelings for someone? Besides a ONS, of course. Just because it was exciting? Just to "prove something to yourself"? Heaven help me.

[Thaddeus]

Yep. Not an affair in the classic sense (that is, I wasn't married or involved with anyone). And I've explained the reasons before and have no desire to repeat it. All I can tell you is that it was a bad, bad idea, and I hurt a number of good, decent women in the process.

 

Don't. Just don't. It will come back to haunt you.

[Snowflower]

aeh, what are you thinking about doing? A revenge affair?

[aeh]

I can't believe this! Yes, I did have a very brief (2 week) revenge affair with an old boyfriend. Told my H about it. Did it to prove something to myself, I guess. To make me feel less like a victim. To "empower" myself. My old bf jumped right back into old feelings, was zero to 200MPH immediately. He knew my situation, but is/was definitely hoping that I would end my M. I do not regret it. However, as I said in some other thread, I went for coffee last week with an old male friend. He is single also, just as my old bf was recently divorced. I don't have feelings for my coffee friend. I am not attracted to him. However, here I am, still out to feed my ego. I have been wondering about him, if he was interested. In our discussion last week he brought up something about an ex-wife of his who he found out had remarried even though they had still occasionally slept together. He dropped her like a hot potato. We both shook our heads at the notion. He has contacted me through facebook like "Hi, how are you?" a few times this last week. For some stupid reason, I texted him back, "Fine how are you? What are you doing"" He called me and asked me to coffee for tomorrow and I said yes. What the hell am I doing? I'm not even interested. I swear, I'm like Dr Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. I can't believe what I am doing, yet I continue on...Mainly, I am wanting the thrill of finding out if he's interested. How much ego feeding do I need after my H's year long affair? This is crazy! Was eating up all the attention I got from strangers on the weekend and now here I am continuing on in crazyland. I have told my H I love him but I don't know what I want, am re-evaluating everything, my wants, desires, do I want to stay with him? I am so enraged he did this to me but then I have calm, loving moments, too (see "hysterical bonding"--we are still in the midst of it). It's like this has transformed me into a person who didn't need that much sex (according to my H) into a sex fiend. I really am not anticipating anything physical tomorrow, but I don't even trust myself at this point...

[Spark1111]

I think feelings of revenge or empowerment are both normal after the discovery of a long term affair.

 

It's a rollercoaster I certainly can relate to, and I do not judge you for having those feelings.

 

It is very similiar to PTSD, and crazy is a part of the disorder.

 

How often do you see your IC? have you discussed all of this with him? I was stepped up to seeing him twice a week when I was at my craziest.

 

Somewhere in all the madness, you have to decide how you want to proceed. You have to decide, that at the end of your days when you meet your maker, (and we all meet him alone) how the story of your life will be told.....with regrets, or without?

 

And whatever you think may be a regret, whether not having the affairs or having them, only YOU can decide what is right for you.

 

No matter what trauma befalls us in life, we are always the sole author of our autobiographies,the sole propietor of our life's choices.

 

Ya know what I mean????

[IfWishesWereHorses]

AEH,

 

I can't remember... have you received IC???? Geez, you've turned into a kamikaz pilot. Do you have a death wish???? This is self defeating behavior... can you not see that??? Its no less crazy than cutting or mutilating yourself because you need to feel something. You're on your way to loosing yourself, not finding yourself.

 

Stop now, and reevalutate! ***banging head agains wall***

[Snowflower]

aeh, I get what you are thinking...we all go a little crazy after we find out what our CS did to us.

 

I'm sure most BS (myself included) thought about doing what you are doing. I know in my case I even had the guy picked out...I work with him and I know him to be kind of a player...it wouldn't have been too difficult. But in the end, I decided that no matter what I had to stay true to myself.

 

I echo what the Spark and IWWH said above. Don't hurt yourself just to hurt your husband.

 

I totally understand your feelings; I'm a BW too. But please don't cause harm to yourself-physically or emotionally. It simply isn't worth it.

[PhoenixRise]

Aeh

 

 

No matter what you decide to do with your marriage you need to figure out what your are going to do with your life.

 

I get the impulse to have a revenge affair. I was advised by some friends to do so myself. They thought it would help me get my self esteem back and validate my attractiveness and level the playing field with my husband. I thought about it.

 

For me, I didn't want to be anywhere near the playing field he had been on. AND more importantly, I figured that I needed to recover my sense of myself as a woman in a way that was sustainable and in a way that did not depend on the validation of any man including my husband. Eventually, you will have to get to this point too. If you continue to need validation from other men, you will continue to seek, and seek, and seek, and you will find it looking at you from the eyes of another man briefly but when his eyes are turned elsewhere you feel empty and still in need.

 

I am not judging you here. Please understand that. I get it.

I just don't want this horrible thing that your husband did cause you to ultimately harm yourself. It is one thing to make true sexual choices based on your own desires, it is another thing altogether to be seeking sex with men just to validate yourself.

 

Honey

 

Please be kind to yourself.

[aeh]

AEH,

 

I can't remember... have you received IC???? Geez, you've turned into a kamikaz pilot. Do you have a death wish???? This is self defeating behavior... can you not see that??? Its no less crazy than cutting or mutilating yourself because you need to feel something. You're on your way to loosing yourself, not finding yourself.

 

Stop now, and reevalutate! ***banging head agains wall***

 

We have gone for 3 MC sessions. Tomorrow I go for my first IC. I know what you mean about the "death wish". I know, it is crazy. I am crazy.

[aeh]

I think feelings of revenge or empowerment are both normal after the discovery of a long term affair.

 

It's a rollercoaster I certainly can relate to, and I do not judge you for having those feelings.

 

Thank you for your compassion in my lunacy.

 

 

It is very similiar to PTSD, and crazy is a part of the disorder.

 

How often do you see your IC? have you discussed all of this with him? I was stepped up to seeing him twice a week when I was at my craziest.

 

 

Somewhere in all the madness, you have to decide how you want to proceed. You have to decide, that at the end of your days when you meet your maker, (and we all meet him alone) how the story of your life will be told.....with regrets, or without?

Very true. I can see it for what it is. But yet I am proceeding. Not necessarily into an affair, but I am going to meet someone behind my H's back, and I have been honest with him about everything up until now

 

And whatever you think may be a regret, whether not having the affairs or having them, only YOU can decide what is right for you.

 

No matter what trauma befalls us in life, we are always the sole author of our autobiographies,the sole propietor of our life's choices.

 

Ya know what I mean????

 

Thank you for these words, Spark. You always have sage advice. I will keep telling myself this.

[aeh]

aeh, I get what you are thinking...we all go a little crazy after we find out what our CS did to us.

 

A little crazy??! How about a LOT crazy??!

 

I'm sure most BS (myself included) thought about doing what you are doing. I know in my case I even had the guy picked out...I work with him and I know him to be kind of a player...it wouldn't have been too difficult. But in the end, I decided that no matter what I had to stay true to myself.

 

I echo what the Spark and IWWH said above. Don't hurt yourself just to hurt your husband.

 

Part of me doesn't feel like I am hurting myself. Part of me (maybe all of me?!!) thinks that I am doing what I want to do because I have been the good girl all along and now I am going to have fun, to enjoy myself, just like my H did.

[aeh]

Aeh

 

 

No matter what you decide to do with your marriage you need to figure out what your are going to do with your life.

 

I have no idea what I want to do with my life, at this point. Go back to being a mom in our upscale community, a school and community volunteer, a *cringe* member of a Sunday school class, the neighbor who waves at you on the street while walking with her husband, the mom who is at all of the sporting events....that is my life and all I have ever known...

 

I get the impulse to have a revenge affair. I was advised by some friends to do so myself. They thought it would help me get my self esteem back and validate my attractiveness and level the playing field with my husband. I thought about it.

 

For me, I didn't want to be anywhere near the playing field he had been on. AND more importantly, I figured that I needed to recover my sense of myself as a woman in a way that was sustainable and in a way that did not depend on the validation of any man including my husband. Eventually, you will have to get to this point too. If you continue to need validation from other men, you will continue to seek, and seek, and seek, and you will find it looking at you from the eyes of another man briefly but when his eyes are turned elsewhere you feel empty and still in need.

 

I get that. I know it in my head, but part of me also thinks that it is fulfilling to be pursued. Yes, I probably did marry too young, didn't date around in my twenties because I had kids. But I was content with that. Even married a guy who was a bit older than me. And then here I get bitten in the butt!

 

I am not judging you here. Please understand that. I get it.

I just don't want this horrible thing that your husband did cause you to ultimately harm yourself. It is one thing to make true sexual choices based on your own desires, it is another thing altogether to be seeking sex with men just to validate yourself.

 

Honey

 

Please be kind to yourself.

 

Thank you for your words. They make me want to cry. Thank you to all of you for your compassion and not bashing me to pieces. I told my husband I want to separate tonight(but I am not even sure if I mean it). One of us will be moving into the guesthouse or at least into the guest bedroom for awhile.

[zilgurl]

How much do you value your relationship? How did you feel after the ONS. Do you feel good about yourself?

[lostsunsets]

Think. Do you want to remain married? IF you do. Then stop NOW! If you don't then start talking divorce.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

I know, it is crazy. I am crazy.

 

You're not CRAZY CRAZY, just a little off kilter! You've given yourself permission to act in a way that isn't you. Look, everyone here has been there. We all did things that were not how we would normally act or react. I now know that I have the ability if needed to go "ass crazy" on someone, and I did not have that ability before I went crazy the first time! IYKWIM!

 

Good for the IC coundseling. Please talk to her about these things, make sure you get them in. This isn't a good time to be doing things that might affect you later. I think its probably a good idea that one of you is moving out. I just hope the guest house is far enough for right now.

 

You are not supposed to make decisions when you are in shock, reeling, and grieving, and you are making some pretty serious decisions.

Step back and put yourself in check, please aeh. Just for now, you've got the rest of your life to act out.

I'm glad that I didn't screw around on my WS. Thought about it a bunch, but I knew deep down that wasn't me.

[taylor]

I figured that I needed to recover my sense of myself as a woman in a way that was sustainable and in a way that did not depend on the validation of any man including my husband. Eventually, you will have to get to this point too. If you continue to need validation from other men, you will continue to seek, and seek, and seek, and you will find it looking at you from the eyes of another man briefly but when his eyes are turned elsewhere you feel empty and still in need.

 

But, the thing is..how DO we, as women, get that validation..that "sense of self as a woman that is sustainable"?

 

Do we find that in a Sunday school class? Do we find that cheering our children on at sporting events? Do we find that making dinner every night or cleaning the bathroom?

 

Women often do turn to men to find their validation as women.

 

I am not saying aeh should have a revenge affair. NO, NO, NO.

 

But what are some other ways she can find validation as a woman than by seeking it in the eyes and arms of a man?

 

Although I come here from a different place...as a WW, I have also struggled with this and ended up in an EA because of this.

 

aeh, an affair is not the answer to anything. Beyond that, I have no answers for you. I am still searching myself.

[PhoenixRise]

Aeh

 

I think it is good that you and your H are putting a little space between you. I think having him in your face so much of the time is driving you into a rage. AND I think it is great that you are going for IC. You need help to process everything that has happened.

 

Aeh, do you think you have been the person you have been all your life because that is what your husband expected of you or do you think you have just been WHO you really are?

[PhoenixRise]

But, the thing is..how DO we, as women, get that validation..that "sense of self as a woman that is sustainable"?

 

Taylor this is the $64,000,000 question.

 

Do we find that in a Sunday school class? Do we find that cheering our children on at sporting events? Do we find that making dinner every night or cleaning the bathroom?

 

Women often do turn to men to find their validation as women.

 

I am not saying aeh should have a revenge affair. NO, NO, NO.

 

But what are some other ways she can find validation as a woman than by seeking it in the eyes and arms of a man?

 

Although I come here from a different place...as a WW, I have also struggled with this and ended up in an EA because of this.

 

aeh, an affair is not the answer to anything. Beyond that, I have no answers for you. I am still searching myself.

 

I think that for every woman the ways she can find validation will be different. Maybe it is an ongoing process and not a destination. For me, during my separation from my H, I took a lot of time to think about WHO I would be if my H and child never existed. Who would I be if I did not try to live up to my idea of what the labels of wife and mother mean?

 

Now I love my role as a mother, but I realized that this role, this singular realtionship is a very narrow way to define yourself as a woman, it is of course a part of the puzzle, but it should not be the whole. Same deal with my role as a wife. I think that many women start to take these slivers of life and make it the whole (I could be wrong about this and it was just ME who did this).

 

So I asked myself.... what am I doing in my life that makes me feel ALIVE? What am I doing that makes me so excited that I can't wait for my feet to hit the floor in the morning? What am I passionate about?

 

and I rebooted my life based on the answers to those questions. For me, this has been the most affirmative, validating thing I could have ever done for myself.

 

Of course I am still a wife and a mother and I have responsibilities as such. I don't mind. I love being a wife and a mother. But I now know that I am also a woman...a human... and I have a responsibility for my own joy.

 

For me, true validation comes from what you DO. What you build. What you create. The LIFE you live. Now I enjoy male attention as much as any woman and I love it when my H shows me he is attracted to me.... but in and of itself... what does having a man want to have sex with you validate? It is not a rare situation for a man to want to have sex with an attractive woman is it?

 

For Aeh, I can see how her husband's infidelity knocked her for a loop and caused her to seek this male validation. It can seem like a shortcut to feeling attractive and in control again. I just think it is a shortcut that can cause her more pain and regret in the end.

 

This may be kind of rambling. I hope it makes sense.

[taylor]

Now I love my role as a mother, but I realized that this role, this singular realtionship is a very narrow way to define yourself as a woman, it is of course a part of the puzzle, but it should not be the whole. Same deal with my role as a wife. I think that many women start to take these slivers of life and make it the whole (I could be wrong about this and it was just ME who did this).

 

I agree 100 percent with this, PhoenixRise. As my children needed me less and my husband turned his attention to other things (mainly career) I felt less validated as a woman. I realize now (from IC) that these are, as you say, just small "slivers" of what defines us..and what defines us as women. But over time, it's easy to allow these two "slivers" to define the whole of us.

 

So I asked myself.... what am I doing in my life that makes me feel ALIVE? What am I doing that makes me so excited that I can't wait for my feet to hit the floor in the morning? What am I passionate about?

 

THIS is EXACTLY what I have been struggling with, both pre-affair and post-affair. The OM made me feel SO ALIVE. It was PASSIONATE and EXCITING. I thought he was the answer to my life. I thought he was THE answer to my search for happiness. His validation of me as a desireable, attractive woman made me feel all of this.

 

But I know that was the wrong place to find those feelings..to seek that validation. Just as I know that is the wrong place for aeh to seek it.

 

My therapist said I need to do what you did..and perhaps what aeh needs to do. She said I need to figure out what I can do with my life to make me feel ALIVE. What I can feel excited and passionate about every single day of my life. Same words you used above..exactly. She told me not to depend on husband or children for that...it's not their responsibility.

 

But I am still searching, PhoenixRise. I feel lost. I am stuck.

 

I hope aeh thinks alot about what you have written here, before she makes a mistake by jumping into an affair. I know I will.

 

Out of curiosity, may I ask what you "found" that makes you personally feel "ALIVE", excited, and passionate about? I know everyone has to find their own way...just curious to know what you found to work for you.

[Snowflower]

I have no idea what I want to do with my life, at this point. Go back to being a mom in our upscale community, a school and community volunteer, a *cringe* member of a Sunday school class, the neighbor who waves at you on the street while walking with her husband, the mom who is at all of the sporting events....that is my life and all I have ever known...

 

 

Oh, I remember this feeling well, aeh. All I can say is that you are (like I was at that point) at a crossroads in your life...what you knew before was your life is changing or is already gone. I knew I had to learn how to make peace with that.

 

For the 2 years prior to my husband's affair, my life had already gone through some dramatic changes...we had moved nearly clear across the country, my father died of cancer, my kids were growing older and more independent. I felt like I had been scrambling to regain my footing. The loss of my marriage as I knew it was just the final blow. I knew my life had changed forever and I struggled with who I was.

 

Like you aeh, I had been a wife and a mother nearly my entire adult life--it was all I knew. Fortunately though, I had been working on my career the last few years so I felt like I had something of my own. But the loss of my identity as a wife and to a lesser degree-a mother, was extremely confusing to me. I had to figure out who I was again.

 

I was told at the very beginning of this ordeal, a year ago now, that I would learn more about myself than I ever had known before. I thought this person who told me this (a friend of mine) was crazy...I was thinking that it was my husband who needed to figure out what he was doing...NOT me! I had not/was not doing anything wrong.

 

However, I have to say that now, a year later, I have learned so much about myself...my friend was right. And I'm still learning.

 

aeh, take this time to figure out this next stage of your life, regardless of what happens to your marriage. Figure out what you want, what will make YOU happy and go from there!

[taylor]

Snowflower,

How did you validate yourself as a woman before your husband's affair?

How are you validating yourself as a woman now?

 

Not as wife, not as mother, but as a woman..

[PhoenixRise]

 

THIS is EXACTLY what I have been struggling with, both pre-affair and post-affair. The OM made me feel SO ALIVE. It was PASSIONATE and EXCITING. I thought he was the answer to my life. I thought he was THE answer to my search for happiness. His validation of me as a desireable, attractive woman made me feel all of this.

 

But I know that was the wrong place to find those feelings..to seek that validation. Just as I know that is the wrong place for aeh to seek it.

 

But I am still searching, PhoenixRise. I feel lost. I am stuck.

 

I hope aeh thinks alot about what you have written here, before she makes a mistake by jumping into an affair. I know I will.

 

Out of curiosity, may I ask what you "found" that makes you personally feel "ALIVE", excited, and passionate about? I know everyone has to find their own way...just curious to know what you found to work for you.

 

There isn't any one thing I did. It was more a shift in the way I live my life. I got really passionate about the way I live my everyday life...the state of my home, the way I eat, the way I dress, the way I set my table, the work I do. I started thinking about HOW I want to feel in my skin.

 

I started doing things I had always wanted to do but was too self conscious or afraid to try.

 

I started painting. Now Taylor, in general, I am really bad at it. But I love to kick H and child out of the house for a few hours, crank up the music really loud and paint based on what I feel and not what I see. When I get done, I am emotionally rung out. Will my work ever hang in a musem? NO but I feel good when I do it and some of my better peices are hanging on my wall.

 

I had always wanted to ride horses. So I started taking lessons.

 

I started kickboxing. Not an exercise class. Real kickboxing.

 

I started to appreciate and build my own physical strength. I am not nor will I ever be a bodybuilder as I would never want that kind of body but having muscle tone and endurance is validating to me and makes me feel sexy in my own right

 

Have you ever seen the movie The Bucket List with Morgan Freeman and Jack Nickleson? It is about 2 terminally ill men who make a list of things they want to do before they die, then they start doing those things.

 

I made a bucket list that I have/will revisit every year on my birthday to see what I have crossed off and what I need to add for the coming year. This has been a tremendous tool. Because of this list, I have done things I probaly would never have done. Example: I did a tandem skydive and am now planning to go solo next time.

 

I started to write again. Something I had always loved to do but stopped because I convinced myself I didn't have the time.

 

This is just a few changes I made.

 

If you don't have anything in your life that you feel passionate about right now Taylor, why don't you start with thinking about things you have always wanted to do but was too afraid to try? Make a list. Then start doing those things. There is probaly where you will find your passion and validation. At least, that is what worked for me.

[Snowflower]

Snowflower,

How did you validate yourself as a woman before your husband's affair?

How are you validating yourself as a woman now?

 

Not as wife, not as mother, but as a woman..

 

I had been aware even long before my husband's affair that I needed/wanted to do more with my life than be only a wife and a mother. I knew my kids would eventually grow up and I needed something for me. I knew I wanted certain things for myself and in the fallout of my husband's actions, I am so glad I did this.

 

It was a double-edged sword though...

 

Several years ago, once my children were a bit older and didn't need me as much, I went back to school and finished my degree so that I could pursue my dream profession. My husband was wonderful and supported me 110% as I worked to achieve this.

 

I did achieve this dream...unfortunately, I was so focused on my dream that I did neglect my husband and marriage. Hence, the double-edged sword...I was achieving what I wanted but at the expense of my marriage-I hadn't learned how to balance these things. Fortunately though, my career would support me if I was suddenly on my own again, which I thought was going to be the outcome.

 

Learning how to balance and discern what truly important was one of those things I learned about myself in my own introspection.

 

Now, I am learning to balance these things-my career and other things that are important in my life.

 

Also, like Phoenix mentioned, I am doing things I always wanted to do but never had the opportunity to try...things that I knew I would be good at, just for the confidence-boost. I took up snowboarding, for example! My teen-aged kids are both proud and a bit embarrassed that their mom enjoys the same sport that they do!

[taylor]

Thank you PhoenixRise and Snowflower for sharing your stories and your valuable insight.

 

I feel like I am at the crossroads. I have been there for some time now. I took a wrong turn..to you know where. And now I am back at that same crossroads again.

 

I feel like Tom Hanks in the Castaway movie...standing at that dirt-road intersection, turning himself from this direction to the next..not knowing which road to take.

 

A part of me is fearful that I will NOT find the passion or validation in anything I try...that even if I give it the effort, I will come up empty, lonely and unfulfilled.

 

I know it is fear holding me back. And indecision. Perhaps also, not really having a good handle on who I am.

 

A couple points really stuck out:

 

Trying things I've always wanted to try..looking for passion and validation there.

 

Doing things I know I am good at..and finding confidence in myself this way

 

Looking inward to find validation. That's a tough one because I've always defined my self-worth by how other people thought of me.

 

Thinking about how I want to feel in my own skin..thinking about who I want to be....again a tough one because it involves introspection.

 

It seems like when you are growing up and in your early 20's your life script is already written for you in a way...you get your education, you get your job, you find your mate, you have your children...AND THEN WHAT...where's the rest of the script?

 

I guess this is why I feel lost or stuck.

 

You have both given me..and I hope aeh...some wonderful food for thought tho and I want to thank you both for that.

 

I hope you both have a wonderful weekend.

[Thaddeus]

A part of me is fearful that I will NOT find the passion or validation in anything I triy...that even if I give it the effort, I will come up empty, lonely and unfulfilled.

Nobody gets guarantees. You can put all the effort that you have in into something, whether it's a relationship or a career or a hobby or anything else. That may improve your chances for success, but it's not a given.

 

This may seem off-topic, but if you stay with me you'll get the connection.

 

Have you read Malcom Gladwell's Outliers? Essentially, the premise of the book is that people who are successful, in whatever aspect of their life, have often had simple luck that's given them opportunities that others may not have had. Being born at the right time, with the right circumstances and even in the right country has a tremendous influence on how and what they achieve later in life.

 

That's not to say that hard work and perseverance counts for nothing - that's not it at all. But it is to say that, like it or not, there are a lot of things that are simply out of our control that also are drivers.

 

Point is that the only guarantees are that NOTHING will happen without some sort of effort. Making the effort might improve your chances, but guarantees don't exist.