He says it is lust for the pictures he looks at

[pashn40ne]

My boyfriend/live in for 12 years has sites he goes to looking at naked woman. I caught him twice recently and when I calmed down enough I tried to talk to him about it. He says it is lust and he said he is a voyeur. He said looking at these pictures is the same as looking out the window and seeing a woman across the street getting undressed. It is arousing he says.

 

Now I feel inadequate, I feel I am not enough for him and I am in pain. I have been trying to deal with this, to rectify it in my head but I guess truth be told I have thus far be unable to. He sits on his computer looking at other woman and getting all worked up. Sometimes he takes care of himself because of how excited he gets. I wonder now, if when he is screwing me is he seeing them?

 

If he just glanced at the pictures and moved on I might be able to deal but he book marks pages of naked woman, he has porn sites that he looks at regularly, not videos just photos. I feel like he is cheating on me and I am just beside myself.

 

Please I need help with this. I do not want to hear that old excuse "Men are visual creatures" cause that is not why men look at pictures of naked woman all the time. I in brief asked a therapist I know why and he said it has nothing to do with men being visual creatures(which we know they are) it is something else. He did not say what though. I do not want a bunch of justifications I just want someone to help me resolve myself. I love him so much I can't even believe it. I do not look at other men and if I see one that is good looking or naked or whatever it does nothing to me because my man is my one and only desire. I know that sounds corny but it is true. All woman feel insecure, we can't help it, look at what we are up against, but this has made me feel more insecure. I was told to just tell him to stop looking but I know if I did he would agree and then he would just be more secretive about it. He knows how I feel.

 

Ok I will stop rambling. Any help / Advice I would truly appreciate it.

[Thaddeus]

I personally think it's less about looking at pictures of nekkid women than it is about disrespecting your feelings. If he knows it bothers you but still continues to do it, THAT's the issue.

 

One thing to be mindful of, though: The tone of your note suggests that you may be comparing yourself to those images. But remember that those images on the websites are highly false. The girls may have implants, the photos are undoubtedly retouched to remove stretch marks and whatnot, the lighting and camera angles and softening filters are used to make them look more appealing.

 

So, two things I'd suggest:

 

1. Stop comparing yourself and your body with the images that are online. Those images don't reflect reality
   
2. Make it abundantly clear to him that it's not about the images he's looking at, it's about the lack of respect he's showing for you when he knows it bothers you but he does it anyway.
   

Good luck.

 

By the way, this is pretty common. Porn, in whatever form, has been around since the pyramids were built. See http://img6.travelblog.org/Photos/55083/260893/t/2259037-Ancient-Porn-2.jpg

[Devil Inside]

Excellent post Thaddeus. I agree with everything he said above. The point for your BF is that it hurts you that he looks at these photos. He should be able to heed your wishes, unless he has a porn issue.

 

Also, seems that some work on your self-esteem would do wonders. Nobody looks like those women...not even those women. It's all a fantasy. If you fear he fantasizes while you two are intimate, ask him what he likes and become his fantasy. Dress up, role-play, give him a lap dance...make it so he can't keep his eyes off of you....become his fantasy woman. Make it apparent that you are willing to do this for him because you respect him and his sexual desire...like he should respect your wishes that he stop looking at porn.

[TaraMaiden]

Yup.

What he said.

 

(Again! Is this deja vu?)

 

You don't trust him, he doesn't respect you. That's two of the fundamental qualities essential to a good relationship (the third one being communication).

 

You really need to logically, coherently and firmly tell him what you object to, and why.

If he persists - he has a problem.

Which unfortunately, makes it your problem.

Where you go from there...... remains to be seen.... doesn't it?

[Trialbyfire]

You've been with him for 12 years, where I assume he's been viewing this or something similar, all this time. What's changed during that time? Were you okay with it at the start?

[Romance]

Honestly though, all men watch porn, it's just how they are. I wish there was a way to not let it bother you, I mean..I'd rather my boyfriend watch porn when we can't have sex than actually go have sex with another woman. I feel like porn is harmless.

 

However if you have spoken to him and told him you really do not want him watching that and he disrespects your wishes, that's a whole other ballgame. I'd try sitting down and really letting him know why you don't want him to and telling him it upsets you that he isn't respecting your wishes.

[pashn40ne]

You've been with him for 12 years, where I assume he's been viewing this or something similar, all this time. What's changed during that time? Were you okay with it at the start?

 

 

I would assume so as well. About 7 years ago I had a suspicion he was watching videos, when I would walk in the room I could almost feel immediate panic and he would close what ever he was doing on the computer. He knew then that I did not approve because of things I told him about my ex. Then about 5 years ago I caught his son logged into a site I know he got from his dad cause it was an online game group site and he was looking at pictures - I went up stairs and blasted him, First thing out of my mouth was - Well atleast now I know why you spend so much time on your gaming site. he went down and gave his son a tongue lashing and he was pretty bent because now I knew one of his secrets.

 

So yes I have known which is why I say if I tell him to stop he won't. What is different now is I walked in on him two nights in a row and saw what he was looking at, and when he gave me the Lusting explanation, that felt bad. Lusting means sexual desire, he is getting excited and masturbating over these pictures. Then I thought about how so often I will walk in the bedroom at night and he will barely acknowledge me. I am not a beautiful woman by any comparative means. But I take care of myself, I keep fit and thin and I try to be what ever he wants in the bedroom. Seeing him looking and so engulfed in these pictures, hearing him tell me that they excite him and he gets aroused and ... Well I guess I feel, If I really did it for him like he does for me, if her really loved and respected me the way he says he does then he would not be looking in the first place, and saving certain pictures for later and book marking web sites and so on. And honestly I think his viewing had increased alot because suddenly he was noticeably looking at woman when we were together, not just following with his eyes, turning his head and body to continue watching and what he looks at is always alot younger then I. He never did that before in our relationship.

 

Maybe I am afraid he is tired of me. Maybe as I am aging, even though he is too, he wants something younger, leaner, sexier.

[TaraMaiden]

What do you think you should do?

What do you want to do - for yourself?

 

I'm hoping I get a sound and strong response here, full of positive self-esteem - because you really do need to stop being so down on yourself and realise your self-worth is your greatest asset, and that you deserve better.

[pashn40ne]

Thank you Thaddeus. You are right about my self esteem issues, and I have been working on them and gotten alot better.

As for the respect part maybe that's it. Maybe the looking is not bothering me as much as the fact that he knows it bothers me and yet he does it anyway. That would account for what feels like anger along with hurt.

[pashn40ne]

What do you think you should do?

What do you want to do - for yourself?

 

I'm hoping I get a sound and strong response here, full of positive self-esteem - because you really do need to stop being so down on yourself and realise your self-worth is your greatest asset, and that you deserve better.

 

 

I don't know - If I tell him to stop I know he will say ok because he would not want me to feel like I do but I believe he would continue just make sure he was more discreet. So that sounds like I don't trust him. So I need to work on that I suppose. So I guess I should just talk to him about it again and make sure he understands my feelings and see if there is anything he feels he is not getting out of this relationship that would lead him to where he is.

As for myself.. I need to keep working on my self esteem. I am not sure what I can do to make myself feel better about myself though other then maybe to write down what I am grateful for in my life, all the good I have done in my life and how far I have come in the last several years and just keep reminding myself of those things.

[TaraMaiden]

I don't know - If I tell him to stop I know he will say ok because he would not want me to feel like I do but I believe he would continue just make sure he was more discreet.

 

here's a tester....

if he promises to stop, tell him you know it will be difficult, because it sounds like he's addicted - so how about he lets you change the password, so that he can really kick the habit for you?

 

So that sounds like I don't trust him. So I need to work on that I suppose.

 

Nope. HE needs to work on that, not you.

 

So I guess I should just talk to him about it again and make sure he understands my feelings and see if there is anything he feels he is not getting out of this relationship that would lead him to where he is.

While you're at it, tell him what you're not getting, either....ok? it takes two to tango. If he's lacking something from it - hell, girl, so are you!! And how!!

 

 

As for myself.. I need to keep working on my self esteem. I am not sure what I can do to make myself feel better about myself though other then maybe to write down what I am grateful for in my life, all the good I have done in my life and how far I have come in the last several years and just keep reminding myself of those things.

Go to the doctor and get a referral for counselling, or get some time at the library. look up self-help books, and - dare I say it? - Look up Dr Phil's life strategies.....

Do something for yourself, because you want to, and because you deserve it.....

in spades.

[Jersey Shortie]

I don't know why we tell women they shouldn't respond a certain way to porn because its fantasy and real women don't look like that; yet we hypocritically give men free passes to do just that; respond to porn because of the fantasy and the perfect bodies and the variety and the sexual acts. How come we place expectations on women to overcome pornography and not respond to it a certain way while we justify men's porn use and their own responses to it?

 

Yeah girls, please feel uber confident in yourselves and your appeal to your man when he is infront of his computer looking at image, after image after image of teen to 20 something girls being bent over and bleeped! But that's right ladies, please be so self assured in your own sexuality even though you don't meet the expectations he is clearly seeking out through porn. Bunch of hypocrites we are to tell women to be confident in themselves and realize their self worth and how great and special we are individually but have men that on a regular basis are more interested in the women they don't have, then the one they do.

 

Pash, I completely feel for you and actually, I feel the way you do about the subject. There is no woman that can compete with the millions of porn images men look at. At the beautiful young women. At the dirty sexual acts. But even if he is using girls that are dressed up like they are suppose to be in high school, you are suppose to still welcome him into your bed with open arms. At least, that's how it seems what men want. THey don't want to make you feel beautiful, cherished or sexy. They want to look at porn of the women they really want, then want you to be sweet and spread your legs so he can polish himself off, getting the best of both worlds. It sucks knowing how completely worthless women have become to men. It sucks fantasing about your guy and doing your best to look pretty and cute but watching his eyes wander to some (hopefully) 18 year old girl and seeking women out in porn. It sucks realizing that men don't care much about making women feel special or like women. They care about validating other women in porn more then they care about validating their own woman.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

One thing to be mindful of, though: The tone of your note suggests that you may be comparing yourself to those images. But remember that those images on the websites are highly false. The girls may have implants, the photos are undoubtedly retouched to remove stretch marks and whatnot, the lighting and camera angles and softening filters are used to make them look more appealing.

 

How is that suppose to make women feel better? Those girls and images are highly false but men STILL respond to them. How do you NOT expect women to respond to those images and question their bodies when men respond to those images of women and get great pleasure from them? Don't you understand that a woman wants to make her man feel good? She wants to excite him. She wants to see his eyes light up to see her body. But that's not what happens. Mens' eyes light up for some woman they don't even know because she has implants nad has been touched up. How can you guys not understand the clear message that sends about what men desire and want women to be? Clearly, real women are not what men really want women to be. Clearly, the women through porn are what men want. And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand why women judge themselves in these terms when it's clear men use these women as a baraomoter for female beauty themselves. Stop asking women to not respond to to these images because of the fakeness and fantasy when you can't even ask men to do the same. Those images dont reflect reality. And apparently the reality of what women's bodies are for men is so subpar, they have to turn to porn to get the kind of women's bodies they really want.

 

 

Good luck.

 

By the way, this is pretty common. Porn, in whatever form, has been around since the pyramids were built. See

 

What does this have to do with the topic??? The internet and modern tech. has changed the way porn as become so ingrained in our lives. A stone statue of a porn image might have gotten the men excited back then but lets not try and convince our selves that it is anywhere near the level of what porn is today in contect and availablity.

[Trialbyfire]

pash, did you ever come right out at the beginning of your relationship and tell him that porn was a dealbreaker with you? If so, did he ever agree to stop viewing porn or that he didn't view porn?

[Thaddeus]

I know you've got this bee in your bonnet about porn, JS, your assumptions that all men watch porn, are pigs, and that men are "a bunch of hypocrites" and "they (men) want to look at porn of the women they really want, then want you to be sweet and spread your legs so he can polish himself off, getting the best of both worlds."

 

Your generalizations are sweeping, but you are welcome to your misandry. It's a free country.

 

But the point - even agreed to by the OP (or did you miss that bit?) - was that it wasn't about the porn. It was about him disrespecting his partner. See her post #9. And I happen to agree with her. His actions are hurtful.

 

If the dude were here with me now, I'd slap him upside the head (metaphorically speaking). He's got a vibrant, intelligent and attractive woman right in front of his nose. WTF is he doing looking at computer images on a monitor???

[MissJoness]

Most women, the majority get jealous (the same for men) when their partner lusts after somebody else--whether it be a celebrity or a real person. It's natural. I don't for a second believe the responses when some of the women say that they are fine with their men lusting after pinup models on the internet, that it's natural and one shouldn't be threatened because IRL women feel quite the opposite. Some women turn a blind eye just for the sake of the relationship but probably still feel threatened they just don't express it.

 

I know when I was with my boyfriend, it bothered me when he looked at pinup models in print magazines and online. I felt very devalued and very jealous. It's natural.

[pashn40ne]

Thad I honestly do not believe that all men watch or look at porn and not all men are dogs or dishonest. I believe he cares for me very much or I would never have stayed with him all these years. He is a man of very strong habits/addictions and yes I do believe it maybe an addiction.

Regardless, I thank you for your understanding and your posts. It helps me just to know I am not alone in the way I feel, and am even justified to a degree.

 

Maybe we as a couple need to get involved in something we can do together. With me in working full time and going to school and kids and him working and traveling on and off maybe we do not have the kind of time we need to have together to make our relationship more full <?> Well rounded?

 

Thank you all for your posts - I feel better now then I did when I started this thread. Atleast I am not shaking now.

[Trialbyfire]

Most women, the majority get jealous (the same for men) when their partner lusts after somebody else--whether it be a celebrity or a real person. It's natural. I don't for a second believe the responses when some of the women say that they are fine with their men lusting after pinup models on the internet, that it's natural and one shouldn't be threatened because IRL women feel quite the opposite. Some women turn a blind eye just for the sake of the relationship but probably still feel threatened they just don't express it.

 

I know when I was with my boyfriend, it bothered me when he looked at pinup models in print magazines and online. I felt very devalued and very jealous. It's natural.

I can honestly say I don't get jealous unless there's flirtatious interaction AND there's something off about our relationship.

 

Porn girls are a joke to me. I mean seriously, how can you be threatened by someone whereby 1/2 to 3/4s of her isn't real, whether cosmetically/surgically/air brushed enhanced? What kind of girl would put herself into the position where she gets paid to spread them for anyone who the studio chooses? Is she so stupid that she can't make a decent living at something else? How little a girl like this must respect herself. It's pathetic.

[pashn40ne]

pash, did you ever come right out at the beginning of your relationship and tell him that porn was a dealbreaker with you? If so, did he ever agree to stop viewing porn or that he didn't view porn?

No it was never something we ever discussed. It never occured to me that this was something he was into.

[Thaddeus]

Thad I honestly do not believe that all men watch or look at porn and not all men are dogs or dishonest. I believe he cares for me very much or I would never have stayed with him all these years. He is a man of very strong habits/addictions and yes I do believe it maybe an addiction.

Regardless, I thank you for your understanding and your posts. It helps me just to know I am not alone in the way I feel, and am even justified to a degree.

Just to be clear, my mini-rant wasn't directed at you.

Maybe we as a couple need to get involved in something we can do together. With me in working full time and going to school and kids and him working and traveling on and off maybe we do not have the kind of time we need to have together to make our relationship more full <?> Well rounded?

 

Thank you all for your posts - I feel better now then I did when I started this thread. Atleast I am not shaking now.

No question, it's tough to carve out "couples time" with the myriad of things we're all expected to do in our days.

 

One thing you might try - this worked astonishingly well for me and my first wife - is that we took a cooking class together. We both enjoyed cooking and thought a class would not only teach us something, it would give us something to do together as a team.

 

Maybe a cooking class isn't quite up your (or your husband's) alley, but the point is to do something together as a team, rather than separately as individuals. A language class, maybe? Dancing lessons? I dunno... whatever would work for you.

[MissJoness]

I can honestly say I don't get jealous unless there's flirtatious interaction AND there's something off about our relationship.

 

Porn girls are a joke to me. I mean seriously, how can you be threatened by someone whereby 1/2 to 3/4s of her isn't real, whether cosmetically/surgically/air brushed enhanced? What kind of girl would put herself into the position where she gets paid to spread them for anyone who the studio chooses? Is she so stupid that she can't make a decent living at something else? How little a girl like this must respect herself. It's pathetic.

 

Not just the girls in porn, but some of the more mainstream pinup models who are considered more respectable. I know my boyfriend used to look at them. While, some of them may have had some cosmetic enhancements, not all of the models are ugly less attractive w/o all the airbrushing and hair extensions. I think it makes some women feel more secure saying that they are "fake" (I know it makes me feel that way) but actually some of them are just naturally, attractive/gorgeous women with near perfect bodies in those magazines/music videos that men like to look at. It does suck knowing this. The makeup/hair just adds to their already attractiveness. Most of the women really do have nice bodies--to be a model you cannot have a jacked up body that needs too much airbrushing, etc because that means that the magazine will have to spend more money on airbrushing/etc and they're not going to do that unless you're a big name. Everyone acts like there aren't some women who are just naturally gorgeous, and some of the models are. And yes, I get very jealous when my partner devotes a lot of time admiring them and lusting after those women.

[Trialbyfire]

Not just the girls in porn, but some of the more mainstream pinup models who are considered more respectable. I know my boyfriend used to look at them. While, some of them may have had some cosmetic enhancements, not all of the models are ugly less attractive w/o all the airbrushing and hair extensions. I think it makes some women feel more secure saying that they are "fake" but actually some of them are just naturally, attractive/gorgeous women in those magazines/music videos that men like to look at. The makeup/hair just adds to their already attractiveness. Most of the women really do have nice bodies--to be a model you cannot have a jacked up body that needs too much airbrushing, etc because that means that the magazine will have to spend more money on airbrushing/etc unless you're a big name. Everyone acts like there aren't some women who are just naturally gorgeous, and some of the models are. And yes, I get very jealous when my partner devotes a lot of time admiring them and lusting after those women.

If your partner is spending A LOT of time devoted to checking out women in an obsessive fashion, you have a problem, Houston! If he admires here and there, no big deal.

 

No matter how great looking or not so great looking a woman is, there will always be someone who's better. But...your partner is with YOU, for a reason. Maybe focus on that, rather than on being jealous or envious about someone who has no impact on your relationship.

 

Now if there was flirtatious interaction AND something felt off about the relationship, then it's time to start examining why he felt the need to flirt, while not meeting YOUR needs in a relationship. More than likely, he's still on the prowl so his lack of commitment, is exacerbating insecurities within you.

 

And the bolded statement is an assumption, due to your own personal insecurities. I do feel secure within my relationship so none of it threatens me. I've only felt insecure twice and both times, my gut instincts were bang on, whether it was a man who cheated or one who was uncommitted.

[sxyNYCcpl]

No it was never something we ever discussed. It never occured to me that this was something he was into.

 

First a couple of points.

 

You never discussed it. Why??

 

It never occurred to you he might use it sometimes. What in the world led you to that conclusion?

 

If you ask 100 random men (or even women for that matter) if they use porn, how many do you suppose would say yes, assuming they're being truthful? If you answer that question in an intellectually honest manner, you know it's an overwhelming majority. So, statistically speaking, it's much more likely that he does than doesn't, yet you not only concluded he didn't with no concrete reason to think that, but you also expected him to comply to an unstated rule that he better not.

 

Now, it is somewhat true that his refusal to respect you is a problem, but IMO ordering your spouse never view porn is an unreasonable demand. Some here completely disagree with that, but to me, a marriage is a partnership of equals, but it's equally true that it is on you guys to negotiate the terms of your relationship.

 

You said you thought it might be an addiction. Why is that? Is he spending money you don't have? Neglecting responsibilities? Most importantly, is your real world sex life suffering BECAUSE of his porn usage? If the answer to that is no, then it's not an addiction, it's a clash of values. He believes it's acceptable to use porn, you do not. Just because it's a value clash and not an addiction does not mean it is not a problem, it just means it may not have the resolution you think. Rereading your first post, you have so many typical, but not really accurate, reactions (I'm not enough for him, etc) that I would encourage you to explore and understand why you reacted in such a manner.

 

At the end of the day, if it's a deal breaker for you, it may be a deal breaker. I doubt you will convince him that a little porn from time to time is genuinely unacceptable, the best case you can likely hope for is that he'll hide it from you, in which case you'll become resentful, or he'll force himself to not just to appease you, in which case he will. I wish you luck.

[pashn40ne]

sxyNYCcpl here is where I stand. The occasional wondering eye casual glance has never been a problem. It is the turning of the head and when it can't turn anymore turning the whole body as he follows a 20 year old in a mini skirt and high heals as she walks by while I am standing right next to him that bothers me. It is the daily viewing and getting excited and admittedly lusting after that bothers me. It is the continual seeking pictures of other woman both models and, according to him, real woman in real life sexual encounters, that bother me. All of those are about respecting me and our relationship or the lack of. How can he tell me that I am so sexy, enticing, all he wants, and then spend countless hours looking at other woman, getting aroused and on occasion masturbating to said pictures and then have me believe what he says. It is a contradiction at best.

 

I completely understand men are visual creatures but, for instance, I am completely in love with this man, he is my one desire, looking at pictures of almost naked men could be something I do but I don't because it does nothing for me, I have what I want, what I need and all I care to have.

So why then, if he is in the same place as he says, that I am his only desire, that he loves me completely and wants no other, is he looking at other woman all the time or alot of the time and getting off? Why does that feeling a man has for his woman not prevent that behavior and why would a woman not see it as a contradiction and hurtful and so on. It feels like he is cheating in a way.

 

I also never said I would order him to stop. I honestly feel like now that it is above board there has been a lie removed from the relationship but I am not sure where that puts things. do you know what I mean?

[Jersey Shortie]

Porn girls are a joke to me. I mean seriously, how can you be threatened by someone whereby 1/2 to 3/4s of her isn't real, whether cosmetically/surgically/air brushed enhanced? What kind of girl would put herself into the position where she gets paid to spread them for anyone who the studio chooses? Is she so stupid that she can't make a decent living at something else? How little a girl like this must respect herself. It's pathetic.

 

And the men that eat it all up? That spend time downloading her? Looking at her body and thinking good things about it? Wheether it's real or not? If a girl who does porn is pathetic. What is the man that looks at the porn, enjoys it and spends time admiring that girl's body and sexual performance?

[TaraMaiden]

....So why then, if he is in the same place as he says, that I am his only desire, that he loves me completely and wants no other, is he looking at other woman all the time or alot of the time and getting off? Why does that feeling a man has for his woman not prevent that behavior and why would a woman not see it as a contradiction and hurtful and so on. It feels like he is cheating in a way.

 

I also never said I would order him to stop. I honestly feel like now that it is above board there has been a lie removed from the relationship but I am not sure where that puts things. do you know what I mean?

 

That's exactly what it is, if it is depriving you of the emotional, physical and intellectual attention you would be otherwise having.

It doesn't matter how he does it, with whom and to what level. he is being unfaithful to the premise of his marriage.

 

It's not a question of 'ordering' him to stop, either.

it's a question of making him see that this erodes your dignity, your presence in his life and it is completely disrespectful, dishonourable and unfeeling.

he's addicted, needs counselling and needs to see, for himself - to realise, truly, eyes wide open - that he is being completely and totally, unacceptably unreasonable.

 

Until then, you are fighting a losing battle, and the only decision you have to make is to whether keep fighting, or give in gracefully, and end it.

 

Really, those are your choices.

 

Because the proviso for the former, is that he does really realise for himself, that this is a massive problem.

Until then, there is nothing you can do.