BCCA Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 The real problem with these books is that they have completely ruined dating, because everyone is looking for signs that the guy 'just isnt into them' or that the woman 'is just a bitch', so they approach dating as if they are just waiting for negativity to rear its ugly head. Seek, and ye shall find. Instead, there are some pretty basic rules to adhere to, such as a someone saying they are 'too busy' = not interested, but not every guy is just trying to get in your pants and be gone, and not every woman just wants a free meal and a couple drinks. These books use 'one size fits all', blanket statements about both genders. While there are red flags that should be taken seriously in most situations, you shouldnt go looking for bad stuff. You should just take things how they come. Someone isnt interested, oh well, moving on. But dont go 'he didnt call me in X number of days following our date, so hes not as interested as he should be, ill write him off'. Thats just silly. There is a lot of grey area between being treated poorly and being worshipped, and it seems like people dont really look in the middle very often.
Fay Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 At NO POINT does He's Just Not That Into You say that a woman shouldn't respond to a man's overtures. The entire message of the book is to not waste your time on guys who ignore you, treat you badly, cheat on you or are commitment-phobic. The book promotes a healthy give-and-take and does not recommend any unhealthy behavior whatsoever. If some women take the book to mean they should be cold bitches, that's the woman's problem, not the book's. I've never read Why Men Love Bitches, and frankly I'm not interested in reading it at all because I'm not interested in being a bitch, and I wouldn't want to land a dysfunctional man who was attracted to bitches anyway.
loveslife Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 Yep, agreed. Just wanted to clarify. If I am interested, I make it known. If they agree to dates, etc, fine. If they blow me off, I move on. No biggie The problem is not the times when someone blows me off, it's when they give the ole infamous mixed signals or plays games and I'm being naive. I'm getting better at moving on during those times, too, though. Live and learn.
Hkizzle Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 The problem is not the times when someone blows me off, it's when they give the ole infamous mixed signals or plays games and I'm being naive. I'm getting better at moving on during those times, too, though. Live and learn. You know, sending mixed signals is one of the classic moves suggested in the book Art of Seduction, which uses examples from throughout history.
loveslife Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 There is a lot of grey area between being treated poorly and being worshipped, and it seems like people dont really look in the middle very often. It seems many of us are saying this same thing. ANd I think also that people have gotten away from being able to think for themselves. With media so readily available nobody has to anymore. I think all these "self-help" books should be labeled "self-harm." My feeling? Focus on doing what makes you feel good about yourself. Fill your life as richly as you can and the best of the rest will follow. That would be an awful short book though!
loveslife Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 You know, sending mixed signals is one of the classic moves suggested in the book Art of Seduction, which uses examples from throughout history. Yeah, nowadays that technique just pisses me off.
BCCA Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 ANd I think also that people have gotten away from being able to think for themselves. Exactly. And this leads them to these books, which tell them that as soon as X happens, its completely f***ed and they should head for the hills. Or they spend too much time talking about 'best case scenarios' and every woman that doesnt get a dozen long stem roses after date #1 thinks a guy is not that into them. And guys go down the road of being a douche, because it works to an extent, and then lose track of who they really are and end up unhappy, anyway. I think its good to use any of these books as a reference, but there are many, many variables in life, and you should be looking for reasons to be optimistic, not reasons that youre being screwed over.
WTRanger Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 It all comes down to this. If you have to question someone's interest level, it's probably not a good sign things are going to work out. I mean literally and realistically question it. Not this BS of, "Well, he didn't buy me a BMW on the 3rd date so I guess he hates me." or the guy thinking, "Well she didn't suck my balls after I bought her dinner so I guess she's not into me." Any self-help book is meant to be a guide. Those books cannot be taken literally, if they are taken literally they screw things up. There is also no such thing as universal self help, humans are much too diverse for specifics which is why most of those books rely on blanket statements. If those books got specific, you'd need a forklift to carry it around.
MissJoness Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 Well, I'm a girl and I have not pursued a guy that I was interested. A few situations happened to me in which A) A guy I REALLY liked gave me his phone number and I lost it. I searched my purse, my room and everywhere. I knew where he worked but didn't want to call to ask for him because it would look desperate. He never heard from me again B) Another guy I liked gave me his phone number and I never pursued him because I also have a bit of dating anxiety. I didn't have anything to wear on dates and felt that he might lose interest in me. I do this quite a lot. I let opportunities slip by because of my low self esteem at ti mes
loveslife Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 Exactly. And this leads them to these books, which tell them that as soon as X happens, its completely f***ed and they should head for the hills. Or they spend too much time talking about 'best case scenarios' and every woman that doesnt get a dozen long stem roses after date #1 thinks a guy is not that into them. And guys go down the road of being a douche, because it works to an extent, and then lose track of who they really are and end up unhappy, anyway. I think its good to use any of these books as a reference, but there are many, many variables in life, and you should be looking for reasons to be optimistic, not reasons that youre being screwed over. Well, I agree with most of what you said here. But I don't think those books are very useful. In fact, I think they can be very harmful. Telling people what to think.
Pink Cupcakes Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 The problem with "Why men love bitches" and "he's just not that into you" is that they describe typical alpha male behavior. Many shy guys will come off as the not asking not a girl out, not calling (initially) crowd. The "shy" guys who are like this I have later come to find ALL have tons of issues and aren't dateable because they turn out to be weird. That is my experience, sorry.
Pink Cupcakes Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 Actually, HJNTIY is less complicated because if you have to analyze and reanylze a guy's actions or lack of them, he's just that that into you. Every single one of my longterm attachments began with the guy being very obviously into me. I haven't read Hes just not that into you but I think it would make me crazy if I did, anazlyzing too much. I think we're all capable of judging someone's interest level. But sometimes we fall in love with potential. Oh well.
CaliGuy Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 The problem is not the times when someone blows me off, it's when they give the ole infamous mixed signals or plays games and I'm being naive. I'm getting better at moving on during those times, too, though. Live and learn. Well, just as when someone who truly loves you, their words and actions will not be in conflict with each other, someone who really likes you a lot will not have conflicting words and actions.
CaliGuy Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 B) Another guy I liked gave me his phone number and I never pursued him because I also have a bit of dating anxiety. I didn't have anything to wear on dates and felt that he might lose interest in me. I do this quite a lot. I let opportunities slip by because of my low self esteem at ti mes This is why you won't attract a good man right now. You're going to get stuck with "bottom of the barrel" type of guys until you build up your confidence and self-esteem.
Pink Cupcakes Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 You did the right thing, Miss Jones. A guy who gives you his phone number is JNTIY. a guy who is into you asks for your phone number and calls.
Trialbyfire Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 The problem is not the times when someone blows me off, it's when they give the ole infamous mixed signals or plays games and I'm being naive. I'm getting better at moving on during those times, too, though. Live and learn.Good for you! Who plays games or gives mixed signals to someone they're really into? Fear of loss would factor into this, if they sincerely cared, so they're going to come at you in a more direct fashion. If they're still dancing around undecided with push/pull or are gaming you with the hook, then withdrawal, forget it, move on, HJNTIY!!
loveslife Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 Good for you! Who plays games or gives mixed signals to someone they're really into? Fear of loss would factor into this, if they sincerely cared, so they're going to come at you in a more direct fashion. If they're still dancing around undecided with push/pull or are gaming you with the hook, then withdrawal, forget it, move on, HJNTIY!! Yeah, the road to you-know-where has been paved with my good intentions, giving the benefit of the doubt, etc. etc. And it all makes me kind of sick since I do know the difference. I have been the object of great interest. Like I said, I have learned though.
Cora Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 I agree that He's Just Not That Into You is a great book! He's just not that into you is the answer for everything in that book. A guy would have to be Mr. Perfect to live up to that book. Oh he called you 2 minutes later than he said he would? He's just not that into you. He forgot dark chocolates are your favorite and got you milk chocolates instead? Honey, he just isn't that into you! What? He had to cancel your date because his mother just passed away? You guessed it, he's just not that into you! I feel sorry for you guys, I really do. I do believe that there are clear signs that a guy isn't interested in you, but sometimes people can take things to the extreme!
Pink Cupcakes Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 Cora, if that's what you got from the book, you didn't get it.
Trialbyfire Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 Cora, if that's what you got from the book, you didn't get it. Agreed! (10 character limit)
Cora Posted August 20, 2009 Posted August 20, 2009 I'm not saying the whole book is bad and maybe I didn't get out of it what I should have. Some of the scenarios just seemed a bit extreme to me. Then again, it's been a couple of years since I've read it. Maybe, I need to pull it out again.
Isolde Posted August 20, 2009 Posted August 20, 2009 Guys, if you went on a date with a girl and she seemed somewhat interested but you weren't sure, would you ask her out again? I don't know but I think this is what most women expect... not to be chased, just a clear go-ahead.
Thaddeus Posted August 20, 2009 Posted August 20, 2009 Guys, if you went on a date with a girl and she seemed somewhat interested but you weren't sure, would you ask her out again?Well, as long as I was interested, then sure. I can't read her mind and, as much as I'd appreciate it, I don't expect a woman to take the initiative in asking men out on dates, at least not very early in the relationship.
kizik Posted August 20, 2009 Posted August 20, 2009 Isolde, I'd test the waters with a text. "Hey, had a great time with you, movie Friday?" etc.
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