Svenn Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 I want to tell you guys my thoughts on this matter just so I can get some feedback about whether or not I'm crazy. Basically, I've cheated on my gf a few times and I don't feel hardly any remorse at all... furthermore, I turned the tables hypothetically on myself to see how it'd feel, and came to the conclusion I'd be ok with her having some one-night stands (with a condom) with other guys, just so long as I didn't hear about it. Is this crazy? My reasoning is that 1. young people (less than 30) especially guys usually have PROFOUND sexual urges that surpass any 'security' or 'romantic' emotion older people experience 2. being such a core part of the human experience, sex should be allowed to happen naturally out of those urges 3. sexual culture is so strong in the U.S. it almost implies the futility of exlusive relationships when one is still young. 4. sexual freedom allows for partners to find out if they really 'love' somebody by doing healthy comparisons... reducing the risk hasty marriage and divorce. The moral problem is when your partner, like my gf, doesn't prescribe to this same theory. Now nevermind the fact that she's my first girlfriend and yet she's had 6 or 7 partners before me, but she is vehemently loyal to me and expects the same back. I feel bad, and I've tried to jokingly hint to her that I'd be ok if she wanted to try another guy for a night. It's a long distance relationship, so maybe that's a factor here.
carhill Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 Why not just date and have sex? You can do that, you know. Or, find a GF who likes open relationships. I'm assuming you've had such a relationship in the past and are used to a partner being sexual with someone else. There's a LS poster, SxyNYCcpl, who is in a swinging relationship and has been part of the lifestyle for some time. Perhaps he can help you. Good luck
Chrome Barracuda Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 ??? WTF doing all this cheating and sleeping around? WTF why dont you both be single, what's the point of being in a relationship?
Island Girl Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 Your post sounds exactly like Chris. Hi Chris!
Chrome Barracuda Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 Are you sure you will not hurt if your gf is in the other guy? WTf how could the GF be IN the other guy, shouldn't he be in her? LOL
Author Svenn Posted August 19, 2009 Author Posted August 19, 2009 Are you sure you will not hurt if your gf is in the other guy? No I'm not sure. But I don't really have a choice if I expect her to be OK with me doing it to other women. I want the comfort and intimacy of a relationship but I still want the physical part with others too... maybe I can't win. Then again I could just stop worrying about it and be like 50% of the "faithful" "traditional" husbands out there who go to vegas and cheat without a second's thought... american culture and the supposedly "family values" wife at home don't seem to care. No one wants to admit it, but I'm starting to think that the "it's not cheating if they don't know" rule is the secret understanding most americans have, conscious or unconscious. I mean for the sake of all that is holy, if so many Americans think they are loyal exclusive partners, why doesn't our country look like the much more family-friendly Saudi Arabia? Most people don't know this, but Saudi Arabia actually is very committed to family values (excluding the whole polygamy thing)- no sexy billboards or mingling between men and women in most public places. I'm not being sarcastic. The very fact that American culture is the way it is implies that the above rule is accepted.
freestyle Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 Is your gf aware of your cheating? I personally don`t subscribe to the philosophy, "it`s not cheating if they don`t know......" Have you considered the possible damage to her if she finds out? You could seriously damage her ability to trust. You said you want to enjoy intimacy in a relationship.True intimacy can never happen unless you are being 1000% authentic with the person you love.If you`re hiding things,part of you is always tip-toeing around, worried about being "caught". There`s nothing wrong with you wishing to "try on different hats" while you`re young (or old, for that matter). If the swinging lifestyle is your bag, I won`t judge you for that. Misleading someone who loves you, however........is not only selfish, but also cruel. If you truly care for your gf, let her know. Allow her the right to make an accurate assessment based on the truth. If she finds out from someone else, the pain and sense of betrayal will be doubled. And this could create baggage for her that will haunt her in potential future relationships. Do you want to put that stigma on her? Which is more important to you: her emotional health..........................................................or you getting your ya-ya`s??? Please, please, be honest with her. Set her free if you don`t see eye to eye on this issue. Then you`ll be free to find someone who shares your point of view, and you may have a very happy and fulfilling relationship.
JustLooking123 Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 I turned the tables hypothetically on myself to see how it'd feel, and came to the conclusion I'd be ok with her having some one-night stands (with a condom) with other guys, just so long as I didn't hear about it. I think you've convinced yourself of this to assuage your own guilt about cheating.
AAlike Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 My reasoning is that 1. young people (less than 30) especially guys usually have PROFOUND sexual urges that surpass any 'security' or 'romantic' emotion older people experience 2. being such a core part of the human experience, sex should be allowed to happen naturally out of those urges 3. sexual culture is so strong in the U.S. it almost implies the futility of exlusive relationships when one is still young. 4. sexual freedom allows for partners to find out if they really 'love' somebody by doing healthy comparisons... reducing the risk hasty marriage and divorce. Well, I think that there is certainly merit to all four of these points - in fact, that is why I refrained from trying to be in a very serious relationship until I was almost 30, and I agree that many people (not all, definitely case-by-case basis) would be better served by doing the same. I also don't understand how people find long-distance relationships possible...but again, that's me. that being said, I don't think that it would be that difficult to find the casual-yet-consistent type of relationship that you desire (I hate to call it "friends with benefits" because that makes it sound so trashy which I don't think that it is). the problem is that you DO NOT have that with your current girlfriend - so even if your four points are completely valid in a general sense, they bear NO impact on the fact that you are deceiving someone who you profess to love!! Now nevermind the fact that she's my first girlfriend and yet she's had 6 or 7 partners before me, but she is vehemently loyal to me and expects the same back. I feel bad, and I've tried to jokingly hint to her that I'd be ok if she wanted to try another guy for a night. It's a long distance relationship, so maybe that's a factor here. so am I correct in assuming that you were a virgin when you met her?
Author Svenn Posted August 22, 2009 Author Posted August 22, 2009 Well, I think that there is certainly merit to all four of these points - in fact, that is why I refrained from trying to be in a very serious relationship until I was almost 30, and I agree that many people (not all, definitely case-by-case basis) would be better served by doing the same. I also don't understand how people find long-distance relationships possible...but again, that's me. that being said, I don't think that it would be that difficult to find the casual-yet-consistent type of relationship that you desire (I hate to call it "friends with benefits" because that makes it sound so trashy which I don't think that it is). the problem is that you DO NOT have that with your current girlfriend - so even if your four points are completely valid in a general sense, they bear NO impact on the fact that you are deceiving someone who you profess to love!! Thanks for saying they're valid, and I do recognize your point. I actually have been with her 7 months and never told her I loved her, I said I would keep those words for someone I was prepared to marry... because you would never not-marry somebody you loved if it was true love. This sentiment is sort of a cornerstone of my approach to relationships- whereas everybody else in the world seems to want to fall quickly in love, be absolutely exclusive and responsible, and then tearfully break up when they want to move on... which just seems stupid. To the above posters, yes, I think I am trying to cover up my own guilt with all these excuses. When I did cheat on her with another girl for like a week I felt absolutely sick for like 3 weeks during and after, it was the most emotionally stressful part of my life, like someone in my family died. At another instance though I only cheated via a one-night stand, and felt little remorse. Despite the emotional pain I cause her and myself, I still feel like experiencing other women is a more critical endeavor at this point in my life.... I mean, maybe she's the right person for me, but if she's not am I just supposed to "settle" for her cuz it's convenient? that's what everyone else I've known does- they're with an imperfect partner but are too afraid of the emotional pain of a break up. so am I correct in assuming that you were a virgin when you met her? No I'd been with 2 other people, but they were only one-night (actually couple hour) stands. It is a noteworthy point though- I was essentially a relationship-virgin and but she had had several serious long-term bf's before me- which person then is really hurting the other more?
calizagg Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 Good comparison to Saudi Arabia. American society is quite hypocritical, I agree. A. I know many married men who cheat, and their wives would have to be absolutely mentally handicapped NOT to know. If the guy makes decent money they don't really ask much. B. Everyone will say it is so wrong, but most of those people never have the opportunity, or even a girlfriend to cheat on. C. If a woman suspects you are cheating, many times a funny thing happens. Her interest level in you sky rockets. You are better to be the cheater than the boring guy who nobody wants. D. Another strange thing happens when you are in a relationship with a woman. Her friends want you, other women who see you with her want you, and women thrown themselves at you. Then of course if you cheat you are the bad guy.
sweetjasmine Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 I mean for the sake of all that is holy, if so many Americans think they are loyal exclusive partners, why doesn't our country look like the much more family-friendly Saudi Arabia? Most people don't know this, but Saudi Arabia actually is very committed to family values (excluding the whole polygamy thing)- no sexy billboards or mingling between men and women in most public places. I'm not being sarcastic. The very fact that American culture is the way it is implies that the above rule is accepted. Saudi Arabia? Are you f-ing kidding me?! The US doesn't look like "more family-friendly" Saudi Arabia because the US isn't run under strict Sharia law. In Saudi Arabia, adulterers are stoned to death. There are stories about female rape victims being sentenced to 200 lashes after being forced to confess they were guilty of adultery by being raped. Women aren't allowed to work in a workplace with men. They need their husband's permission to leave the house for work, and she can't go to or from her job without being escorted by a close male relative. Women aren't allowed to drive. Women are required to wear the abaya and in some places the niqab, and they regularly get harassed by the Mutawa if they don't. Also: According to Saudi Arabia's Shariah law women's clothing should meet the following conditions: Women must cover their entire body, but they are allowed to expose one or both eyes in necessityWomen should wear abaya and niqab thick enough to conceal what is underneath, and the abaya should be loose fitting.Women should not wear bright coloured clothes or clothes that are adorned so that they may attract men's attention. Women are segregated almost everywhere: Most Saudi homes have one entrance for men and another for women. In Saudi culture, a woman is not allowed to meet her spouse unveiled until after the wedding. Saudi daughters are encouraged to wear the niqab in public.[/url] Sex segregation plays an important role in Saudi's culture and society. Not only all offices, schools, universities, libraries are segregated, but also women in Saudi must have a husband or close male relative as an escort while going out. Yeah, treating women like worthless pets and not even second-class citizens is an awesome display of "family values". If only the US were that committed to family. No one would cheat if they got stoned to death for it.
calizagg Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 I know a couple "western" women who went to Saudi Arabia and cannot believe the level of respect they received. In the states typically they are looked at as something to put a penis into. Oh and you work and pay bills. The Saudi men want to marry you before sex. Western men just want sex then can't wait for you to leave. I am not saying the above it right, but that's how men view women in America. As sex objects.
sweetjasmine Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 I know a couple "western" women who went to Saudi Arabia and cannot believe the level of respect they received. I wouldn't feel respected if I were in a country where I had to cover myself up and wasn't allowed to do anything on my own accord and where I was treated no better than the family dog. I wouldn't feel respected if I were in a country where I could be flogged for being a rape victim and reporting the crime. In the states typically they are looked at as something to put a penis into. I don't think that's true across the board. The Saudi men want to marry you before sex. That's probably because pre-marital sex is illegal in Saudi Arabia, and women are faced with the threat of honor killings in addition to the punishments meted out by the legal system. FFS, a father shot his daughter because she was chatting with a man on facebook, and a brother killed his two sisters for talking to men in public. And somehow the fact that women are faced with the threat of death if they have sex outside of marriage and without men's permission means that Saudi men don't think of women as sex objects? Because they're willing to marry first? Marriage gives them all the power, anyway. What about the fact that marital rape is a serious problem in Saudi Arabia? Women who refuse to have sex with their husbands are beaten and then raped. How is that not treating them like sex objects? I am not saying the above it right, but that's how men view women in America. As sex objects. I don't agree, but even if that's true, in Saudi Arabia, men view women as all-purpose objects who are required to obey them at all times. How's that any better?
calizagg Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 Sorry, I disagree. It depends on how you are looking at it. I was reading an article written by a western women who moved to the middle east. As an example, her husband simply loved even touching her hair after years of marriage. Why? Because men are not bombarded by sex from every angle all day and night. They do not even see women's hair, which makes all the rest much more exciting. Compare that to the USA where usually the guy is tired of sleeping with the same girl after a few months. Sex is everywhere. It is easy to get. There is nothing special anymore about sleeping with a woman. (As you can see by the thread) Have you spent time in the middle east? Or just reciting some propaganda you heard on tv? And I do not think the vast majority of muslim women would want to trade spots with you at all. Divorce, depression, work, used for sex, drugs, etc etc.
sweetjasmine Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 As an example, her husband simply loved even touching her hair after years of marriage. Why? Because men are not bombarded by sex from every angle all day and night. They do not even see women's hair, which makes all the rest much more exciting. Compare that to the USA where usually the guy is tired of sleeping with the same girl after a few months. Sex is everywhere. It is easy to get. There is nothing special anymore about sleeping with a woman. (As you can see by the thread) No, guys aren't tired of sleeping with the same girl after a few months. Maybe some are, but you're making ridiculous generalizations. I don't see how treating women like property and beating and raping them for refusing to have sex with you makes sleeping with a woman more "special". Have you spent time in the middle east? Or just reciting some propaganda you heard on tv? Yes, I have been to the Middle East, and in Egypt I was repeatedly groped in public by men on the street who thought it was okay to reach out and cop a feel because I wasn't a local. I haven't been to Saudi Arabia. And I do not think the vast majority of muslim women would want to trade spots with you at all. Divorce, depression, work, used for sex, drugs, etc etc. Of course they wouldn't. It's their life and culture. But I'm sure the vast majority of Saudi women who have been raped or beaten by their husbands would like for it to f-ing stop. This conversation is absolutely revolting. I'm done with it.
samsungxoxo Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 So why not dump your current girlfriend because it's not fair for her and look for a woman that's into swinger lifestyle... Easy answer don't you think, then you won't have that issue no more.
Author Svenn Posted August 26, 2009 Author Posted August 26, 2009 Sorry, I disagree. It depends on how you are looking at it. I was reading an article written by a western women who moved to the middle east. As an example, her husband simply loved even touching her hair after years of marriage. Why? Because men are not bombarded by sex from every angle all day and night. They do not even see women's hair, which makes all the rest much more exciting. Compare that to the USA where usually the guy is tired of sleeping with the same girl after a few months. Sex is everywhere. It is easy to get. There is nothing special anymore about sleeping with a woman. (As you can see by the thread) Have you spent time in the middle east? Or just reciting some propaganda you heard on tv? And I do not think the vast majority of muslim women would want to trade spots with you at all. Divorce, depression, work, used for sex, drugs, etc etc. I agree with you. sweetjasmine is obviously emotionally unstable and I highly doubt she has been "groped repeatedly" on the streets of Egypt, if even been there. Anyway, I'm putting the blame for my immorality entirely on myself, but I do think US society's constant idolization of the 'player' lifestyle does play a role in cheating. I think there is value in trying a few different memebers of the opposite sex before settling down, but that shouldn't be extended to blatantly flaunting sexuality everywhere. Any idiot knows there's lots of things wrong with Saudi Arabia's approach to women, all I'm talking about is the positive pro-family aspect. I agree calizagg, most people never have the opportunity to cheat, thus they easily judge how immoral it is. In acient cultures, some prince or princesses were showered with young women or young men constantly on their lap, I defy anyone to claim, had they been in that situation, they wouldn't be cheaters. I'm interested in your idea that women's interest in a man skyrocket when the man cheats??
rudeaims Posted August 26, 2009 Posted August 26, 2009 I do not think you are crazy. I think that you are immature.
vox Posted August 26, 2009 Posted August 26, 2009 I do not think you are crazy. I think that you are immature. Differences in sexual proclivity are individual and not really something that (within reason, of course) should be judged. If you want to have your own whole person and build your whole life around him, that's awesome. I'm with Svenn here. I don't really require monogamy, and in fact, I'd probably request it otherwise. I like sex, but in a relationship, I'm not a sexual person. To me, it's just a responsibility and pressure and an expectation I don't ever feel good about past the honeymoon phase. And before you blast me for being a monster, I have Asperger's Syndrome, so I'm on the HFA spectrum and aspies often don't have the same hormones (oxytocin and vasopressin, specifically) that you all do to BOND us with our partners.
missdependant Posted August 26, 2009 Posted August 26, 2009 I want to tell you guys my thoughts on this matter just so I can get some feedback about whether or not I'm crazy. Basically, I've cheated on my gf a few times and I don't feel hardly any remorse at all... furthermore, I turned the tables hypothetically on myself to see how it'd feel, and came to the conclusion I'd be ok with her having some one-night stands (with a condom) with other guys, just so long as I didn't hear about it. Is this crazy? My reasoning is that 1. young people (less than 30) especially guys usually have PROFOUND sexual urges that surpass any 'security' or 'romantic' emotion older people experience 2. being such a core part of the human experience, sex should be allowed to happen naturally out of those urges 3. sexual culture is so strong in the U.S. it almost implies the futility of exlusive relationships when one is still young. 4. sexual freedom allows for partners to find out if they really 'love' somebody by doing healthy comparisons... reducing the risk hasty marriage and divorce. The moral problem is when your partner, like my gf, doesn't prescribe to this same theory. Now nevermind the fact that she's my first girlfriend and yet she's had 6 or 7 partners before me, but she is vehemently loyal to me and expects the same back. I feel bad, and I've tried to jokingly hint to her that I'd be ok if she wanted to try another guy for a night. It's a long distance relationship, so maybe that's a factor here. Your poor girlfriend... I think you should be single if you don't feel any remorse. Think of how heartbroken she would be if she found out.. First you say you feel no remorse, then you say you feel bad. So which is it? I think you should look for another swinger-type, and I think that these sorts of feelings should be out in the open. My BF and I have included other couples and people in our sex life, but we do it OPENLY. We don't hide things from each other, we trust each other.. that is key. Going behind your SO's back is pretty immature. Trying to support a relationship where both of you have different morals and beliefs about relationships and sex is pointless. Move along, IMO. Save her the heartbreak.
Lish Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 Really, you sound like a right catch... </end sarcasm>
EricaH329 Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 Just reading through this post has made me sick to my stomach. Really makes me appreciate my fiance. The man with morals. What a concept.
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