NightLord1 Posted August 18, 2009 Posted August 18, 2009 Yep...you read the thread title. I truly believe that relationships are going extinct and in a big way. It blows my mind at how much different things are compared to just ten years ago. There are people breaking up constantly and people who have been together for years and years and it seems to be getting worse and worse. It seems to me people don't get with people to have a bonding lasting relationship. Instead, it looks like people just get with people to have someone there so they aren't alone. I have a lot of women friends and they can't stick with one guy for more then a couple months before dropping them and moving on to the next one. Not only do i see this with my friends, but i see this with my friends friends as well. It also doesn't seem to matter how you act with someone because in the end they are going to leave either way no matter WHAT you do. Guys...a women will like you no matter what you do or how you are. If they like you they like you if they don't they don't. If they do there is nothing that will keep them away from you and if they don't like you there is nothing that will keep them from staying around. Period. Girls...if a guy treats you well with respect and consideration then he likes you. If he treats you like a piece of crap then he doesn't respect you and could care less if you are there or not. Trust me I know this. I know on here and in past threads i have preached indifference. Well I still believe in that because at least with indifference I still have my self respect and dignity rather then being some doormat to someone who doesn't appreciate me or how I treated them. Some people may be OK with thinking that treating people with "love" will have more love come back to them. This to me is just a false sense of hope because people will take advantage of someone if they have a chance. If you do not stand up for yourself and put your foot down expect to be a launch pad for injustices. Whether you are nice, needy, clingy, a jerk, dick, player, gentlemen, doesn't matter in the end. You can be all those things or none of them and in the end you will still wind up where you began. Don't bother trying to reconcile with an ex who left you. I'm not saying ignore them because I still don't believe in that but don't sit there hoping they will be coming back because they only will when THEY see it is beneficial for them. Except the fact that for whatever reason your ex left you and instead of feeling sorry for yourself over someone who didn't give a damn about you enough like they said they did move on with your life to better things. People all have their own opinions and sense of what they deem is right and wrong. A lot of people must have control over everything in their life because without control they feel they are helpless. Other people are just messed up after years and years of abuse, rejection, depression, and who knows what else and the only thing that will fix that is themselves and only then if they want to make themselves better. I can honestly say I have been around the block a lot and quite frankly it really is just one big circle. I started at one point and ended at the same point without really going anywhere. Sure the scenery changed but in the end every relationship just pretty much left off where I started before I met them. By myself with absolutely nothing to show for it besides a lot of learning experiences. Regards.
john1988 Posted August 18, 2009 Posted August 18, 2009 Guys...a women will like you no matter what you do or how you are. If they like you they like you if they don't they don't. If they do there is nothing that will keep them away from you and if they don't like you there is nothing that will keep them from staying around. Period. Never a truer statement spoken it's like friends aswell if you like certain people better than others you tend to overlook alot more. It's quite simple they will put up with pretty much anything if they are that into you, if not you will get nonsense excuses and break up.
john1988 Posted August 18, 2009 Posted August 18, 2009 Also agree with indifference it's definitely the way to go if you are unsure it's not being rude and it's not being childish either by ignoring, I never contact my ex but if she makes an attempt with me I always respond and keep it short and sweet.
SCooke Posted August 18, 2009 Posted August 18, 2009 I don't agree with some of the statements here. Especially the one about girls will like you no matter what , and if they don't there's nothing that will make them stay. Sure at the beginning women will overlook some things because the attraction is very strong. But eventually, after the honeymoon period, there's gotta be substance there, there's gotta be love, and compatability. Values come into play, and how you treat one another. There's gotta be trust, respect of one another, and the ability to keep things exciting and fresh for one another. So, if these things are not there, someone will want to leave. Usually women tend to take that step because they analyize the situation much earlier and are better able to feel these things. Guys on the other hand, usually don't do this until there's a big crisis. So I do think how you act and who you are is VERY important in a relationship. In fact, that's why so few relationships last, because we are not good to each other... But I do agree with you on the fact that once a woman's made her mind up to leave, there's not much you can do to change it.
Author NightLord1 Posted August 18, 2009 Author Posted August 18, 2009 I respect your opinion S but honestly you can have ALL those thing you were saying in a relationship and it still will won't make much of a difference. If someone wants out they want out and nothing you do will change it no matter how fresh or exciting things are or how much trust there is. Trust doesn't amount to s h i t if someone is bored and wants to leave. Having an exciting relationship doesn't mean s h i t if two people can't trust each other. Sure it would be utopia if you can have ALL those things in a relationship and it works out and lasts. Fact is it never does last for any length of time. You may be able to squeeze out a number of years but it will all fall apart at the end in which you would have to rebuild and start over again anyway. You would think with as advanced as the human species have gotten we would have overcome a lot of crap of our ancestors. But being primates we aren't suppose to mate for life. Marriage and religion and everything else society was built upon was just that...it was BUILT not embedded into our gene pool or biology by nature. And the way of the world today it seems to me that those primal instinctive forces are still at play more so then ever. Sure we as humans are intelligent and achieve much but thats part of the human species is to evolve and make greater steps towards improving and refining for survival. I don't see relationships evolving...i see them DEVOLVING.
PhantomSunrise Posted August 18, 2009 Posted August 18, 2009 There are no such things as generalizations on this scale that are accurate. Ever. There never will be, either. You can't just say all relationships are devolving. It's just silly.
SCooke Posted August 18, 2009 Posted August 18, 2009 NightLord1, I totally see where your pessimism is coming from. I have times were I feel like that too. and when you've gone through many relationships and you see the same patterns and when u come to a place like this forum and you see the exact same patterns, it's hard not to say that it's ALL like that. But i know so many people that have been together for so many years and are still in love. My parents have been married for 30 yrs. They love each other so much still. They've had rocky times for sure, but you can feel a bond between them that not much in this world can break...It all comes down to VALUES. It's the mentality of people these days. We give up too easy. We give up on our partners, but more importantly we give up on ourselves. If it's hard, we bail. We are bombarded with options in so many aspect of our lives, that we feel like when it comes to relationships, it's the same way too. We feel like there's someone better out there for us, when most of the time we're not even worthy of anything better. Commitment is the most important part of a long lasting relationship, and today's society, esp in western cultures, does not value commitment as much as it used to. So of course relationships fail if we expect things to always be easy. In every succesful long term relationship, there comes a time when one or both really want to bail, but they decide to make it through, because of the commitment and the underlying love that's there (now some relationships are not worth fixing, like cheating, abuse...) And when they make it through that, the bond will be stronger.
Author NightLord1 Posted August 18, 2009 Author Posted August 18, 2009 There are no such things as generalizations on this scale that are accurate. Ever. There never will be, either. You can't just say all relationships are devolving. It's just silly. Just an opinion didn't say it was written in stone. If you happen to not have experienced what I have and can stay optimistic and hopeful more power to you.
silic0ntoad Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 You know, I still cling to hope that relationships AREN'T dead. But honestly, if you look at the numbers, NL is right. In Europe, relationships are in a staggering decline. It won't take long to catch up here with a 50% divorce rate. I actually had this conversation with some female friends of mine over the weekend. Both of them said the EXACT SAME THING. "People are sexual creatures. We aren't meant to be tied down to one thing." They also went on to say that they didn't believe in marriage. IDK, just words from the horse's mouth, I guess.
Woggle Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 They aren't dead but they are an endangered species. There is too much animosity between men and women these days to have many successful relationships. You can't erase sexual attraction but there is more to love than that.
MrFun Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 I truly believe that relationships are going extinct and in a big way. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interdependence Specifically "Independent thinking alone is not suited to interdependent reality. Independent people who do not have the maturity to think and act interdependently may be good individual producers, but they won't be good leaders or team players. They're not coming from the paradigm of interdependence necessary to succeed in marriage, family, or organizational reality."
Thaddeus Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 It's unfortunately, but I have to agree with NL. Here's why (IMHO): Young women are brought up to believe in all sorts of nonsense when it comes to relationships. The way relationships are portrayed in movies and romance novels and all the rest is taken as a true reflection of reality. It's not, of course, but that's the impression they're given. They're also told that they can "have it all" - family, career, a loving spouse and all the goodies which comes with an upper middle-class life - pretty much without any effort. Another lie. Then reality strikes. Love fades (as it always does). Careers stall. The fantasy of running slow-motion through tall grass with the husband and kids is replaced by the reality of runny noses, poopy diapers, financial woes and relationship power struggles. At some point, one (or both) of the partners say, "This isn't working for me. This isn't how life is supposed to be. I'm better off on my own. It's all about ME." The culture of narcissism doesn't help. There is little room for compromise or interdependence. How often do we see posts on this very site that include the phrase, "I won't settle"? As if compromise and interdependence are somehow perceived as being negative. For the record, I don't think men are somehow innocent victims in all of this. Many men will happily trade in their 40-year-old spouse for two 20-year-olds in hopes of rekindling that passion that they had with their original wife many years ago. It doesn't work, of course, but that doesn't stop men from trying. *edited to add* Seems that MrFun and I were posting at about the same time and both made references to interdependence. But he did the research, I just pulled ideas out of my head. But the fact remains: A culture of hyper-individuality isn't conducive to interdependence.
silic0ntoad Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 I agree Thad. Men normally look to enhance their own prestige with "trophy" wives. When the old one is cast aside for the new one, sh*t hits the fan. IDK. I've said it before, I'll say it again- it's cultural. No one is truly happy until they can accept things as they are. People don't see or understand what they have. And even after they lose it they are disallusioned to think it will be easier.
EmperorR Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 Yep I agree like I always say here, it doesn't matter how good you treated your ex it means nothing nothing in the end. Heck my last ex was in a abusive relationship for 3 years. I dated her 2 months I get dumped and I treated her with respect and dignity it doesn't matter
silic0ntoad Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 Yep I agree like I always say here, it doesn't matter how good you treated your ex it means nothing nothing in the end. Heck my last ex was in a abusive relationship for 3 years. I dated her 2 months I get dumped and I treated her with respect and dignity it doesn't matter You are right. I can guarantee this; after my current break up, I WILL NOT allow anyone in as closely as I did this time around. I'd rather keep parts of me to myself. Sad part is, I see it everywhere. My friend Mike just found out his GF is/was cheating on him. They broke up. Last night, I had to break up a fight between him and the new guy. My sister cheated on her husband. My buddy Bob is about to screw around on his current GF, who he treats like garbage. I'll be damned if I allow myself to fall into those traps again.
adamt Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 I think the world is a lot smaller now with stuff like email,mobile phones and so on. So much temptation and easy to hide secrets. Just look at all the friends people have on face book.people are chasing the impossible dream of a perfect relationship that they pick up from the media and the celebrity culture. it is easier to work all over the world. Women have all the power, i think they do more of the breaking up. Times have changed. Women now have career jobs,can be fully independent and dont need the financial support of a man. They are not afraid to break up and be on their own. It is now acceptable to have children outside wedlock or never get married. People will quit a relationship rather than work on it. Years ago you got married just once or would stay with the same person all your life. now it is becoming acceptable that you stay together for 7 years or so and move onto someone else. I see people who are in their mid 30s break up from a long term relationship/marriage because they want to see what is out there as they missed out on their early 20s. People seem to settling down later. People in their 30s are doing what peopel in their 20s do.
silic0ntoad Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 Adam, you are right, but I don't think it's all EVOL WOMEN. It's a combination of things. To be honest, I really couldn't care less about the outcome of any girl I date from this point forward. I am not preaching self defeatism, but I am saying, most guys jump into things too quickly, and don't take things slowly. I am talking to two girls right now. Both are amazing people in their own way. But, I won't see either of them more than perhaps once a week. Why? It's too soon for me after the end of my RS, but I am also not letting anyone in so easily. They've got to earn it. Traditional marriage now seems a logical fallacy. With Polyamorous marriages, what's the point? I actually dislike it when a partner won't take the other partner's name. Why? Because it shows you are clinging to what you were- single, independant. When you get married, you become one, socially, economically, mentally, emotionally. IDK, just random thoughts, but look at the patterns. The evidence is ALL there.
Thaddeus Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 Women have all the power, i think they do more of the breaking up. Times have changed. Women now have career jobs,can be fully independent and dont need the financial support of a man. They are not afraid to break up and be on their own. It is now acceptable to have children outside wedlock or never get married.I think this is a big part of it as well. Depending on where you live, stats stay that about 70% of divorces are initiated by women. Now, certainly, some divorces are started because the guy is too lazy or just doesn't care enough to start the proceedings. But I'd guess that it also has to do with that fantasy of romance that I referenced earlier. As soon as she 'falls out of love' (that is, the reality doesn't match with the fantasized ideal), that's the excuse she needs to drop the divorce bomb. And since divorce no longer has the social stigma that it once did, it's simply the easy way out. No time or effort spent working out problems, just start divorce proceedings.
silic0ntoad Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 I think this is a big part of it as well. Depending on where you live, stats stay that about 70% of divorces are initiated by women. Now, certainly, some divorces are started because the guy is too lazy or just doesn't care enough to start the proceedings. But I'd guess that it also has to do with that fantasy of romance that I referenced earlier. As soon as she 'falls out of love' (that is, the reality doesn't match with the fantasized ideal), that's the excuse she needs to drop the divorce bomb. And since divorce no longer has the social stigma that it once did, it's simply the easy way out. No time or effort spent working out problems, just start divorce proceedings. Hate to say it, but I agree Thad. It's the same overseas, only it's been happening alot longer. The majority of women do initiate the divorce. Just check out the seperation/divorce thread and you'll see EXACTLY what we are talking about.
DustySaltus Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 This is the biggets problem I see with relationships these days: When my X and I broke off our engagement one of my friends told me "You need to find someone that fits into your plan. They need to understand your plan and be on board with it through thick and thin". What he failed to mention is that the woman is also looking for you to "fit into their plan as well" Marriage.....check Kids.....check House....check Move to California....."wait a second"? She agreed to my plan, I agreed to hers but things change. And what I have learned more than anything else is to forget what you heard in the past and live one day at a time. In a relationship, you need to bring the energy EVERY DAY. Too many people take off weeks at a time, because it's work...hard work.
Trialbyfire Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 Wow, how devastating it must be for men to realize that women have the same choices in life, that men had, all along...
Woggle Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 Women only have the power if you let them have it. Why do men act like we utterly powerless to do anything about this? If respect ourselves and conduct ourselves as strong men then women will react to us that way. A few years ago I decided to never be a doormat for another woman again and my life changed after I commited myself to growing a spine. Usually women that are no good show their true colors before you get serious but men ignore it for a multitude of reasons.
adamt Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 I think how things are distributed in a divorce is wrong. For example if someone commits adultery they should be in a far weaker position when sorting the divorce out and who gets what. But thats going off topic and a totally different topic. Marriages just arnt treated with the same respect anymore that they are meant to be forever
Trialbyfire Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 Each person has full control over themselves and their personal environment, to the degree that we each decide who to keep in our lives. If your environment is full of close friends and family, who prefer to be single, it becomes your reality. My environment, when looking at close friends and family, is full of people in successful LTRs or marriages, therefore, I view relationships favourably since this is my reality. Also, dating and relationships aren't guaranteed forever. In each relationship that doesn't work, you hopefully learn something more about yourself, rather than solely pointing the finger externally, that it's everyone else's fault and you were the perfect mate. Even if you were the perfect mate, you're the one who chose this/these people, the only constant in a string of relationships that didn't work. So, overall, what I'm trying to say is that you can point the finger externally, getting more and more bitter, or you can learn from each experience but retain a positive attitude. You can bet that the latter kind of person is the one who's going to attract others with positive energy. The former will fail.
Thaddeus Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 I think how things are distributed in a divorce is wrong. For example if someone commits adultery they should be in a far weaker position when sorting the divorce out and who gets what. But thats going off topic and a totally different topic.Actually, it's very germane to the topic at hand. Where I live (it's probably like this in most of North America, but I can't be 100% sure on that) the reason for the divorce is completely immaterial to how financial issues are sorted out. This has led to situations (a couple of which I know of first-hand) whereby the couple has kids, get a house, wife has an affair, sues for divorce, takes the kids and the house and gets alimony and gets child support and restricts paternal visits... meanwhile, the guy who has done absolutely nothing wrong is left with, well, nothing. It actually encourages women to have affairs and file for divorce. This happens all the time. Now, to be fair, there are some numbskulled men out there who have affairs with their secretary (or whatever) and end up getting taken to the cleaners in a divorce settlement. I have little sympathy for them; they made their bed (proverbially speaking) so they should have to lie in it. Where it goes off the rails is when the guy is completely the innocent party in the divorce proceedings and still gets destroyed in the settlement.
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