Author sunshinegirl Posted August 19, 2009 Author Posted August 19, 2009 Is there some reason you don't just call him? I prefer men who are willing to step out, even if ever so slightly, of their comfort zone, to pursue a woman they're interested in. To put it more bluntly, I don't chase men and I don't appreciate being put in the position of chasing them. I don't want to be the "alpha" in the relationship. I've been clear about my interest and openness, and also clear about wanting him to call. Like Carhill said, it's starting to look like just a bad fit. He might be good friend material, but not good relationship material...for me.
jerbear Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 The question for me now is: do I cut my losses now, as CH suggests, or is there one more chance where I lay down the law like kizik suggests and give him one more chance to dial my digits? (That sounds dirty) Yes... How should I handle this? Or... have him sign up on twitter and follow you... :lmao: Seriously, I think after one date and he doesn't call and only texts... he is stuck in text mode and needs to get with the program. I like cahill's idea of just ignoring his texts. At some point he'll get it or not.
Pink Cupcakes Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 I had a similar situation and I did ignore his texts one day and he DID call that night.
Pink Cupcakes Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 OK, now listen to yourself. Single father of three behaves better and makes time to communicate in a manner you find acceptable and attractive, and he also makes time to be a running buddy. Now, there's a loser if I ever saw one I'm with CarHill on this one! Don't discount him because he has kids if he's a great guy!
Trialbyfire Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 That bolded part relates to my central struggle in relationships: namely that I don't speak up ENOUGH about my needs because I fear being perceived as a b!tch. (Last BF got away with a lot of crap because I was afraid to put my foot down.) Hence me needing advice about how to be direct and forthright without coming across as (unreasonably) demanding.The difficulty is that you want to balance between being assertive and yet, being casual. This is almost impossible to do. Either assert yourself right out the gate by saying I don't like texting and would prefer you call, or relax. As you've mentioned, you've already tried being tactful and gently suggesting he call v. text, of which he's ignoring your gentleness. I would worry less about what you appear to him and try to get what you want. I don't know this guy well enough to know how interested in him I am. There's another guy on the scene who is behaving better (more direct communication etc) but I don't want to go romantic on that guy because he has 3 kids from a previous marriage - we're just running buddies. Wish this guy would communicate the way runner guy does!See, you're not even certain what you want from him so how do you expect him to be certain of your interest? Either you're interested or not. And right now, he's not stepping up to bat. It makes me wonder what kind of signals you're putting out to him, as well.
Author sunshinegirl Posted August 21, 2009 Author Posted August 21, 2009 The silence sandwich worked...I didn't reply to the texts and he called me the next night. So we are slated for date #2 Sunday and I managed to make clear that I prefer him to call me. So we'll see how this goes... Oh - and actually his being sick was kind of an ordeal: he was in the ER twice and sent to a neurologist in the space between our date Wednesday night and Sunday. So maybe the spaciness and reliance on txt messages had something to do with that. (One can hope.)
carhill Posted August 21, 2009 Posted August 21, 2009 I'm sorry to hear his neurological issues affected his vocal cords. I'd hate that. But his fingers were unaffected. That's good news. There is hope. Silence sandwich number two is permanent
Author sunshinegirl Posted August 23, 2009 Author Posted August 23, 2009 [headdesk] I thought I had been clear on the phone that I preferred him to call me - we had a funny exchange where he said "so give me a call sometime...or I can give you a call sometime...whichever" and I said "actually, I'd like for YOU to call ME" and he said, with a laugh, "okay, then, I'll call you." Message conveyed, no? I thought so, anyway. Except, yesterday, he texted me again. No call. I am at the frying pan stage of getting the message across and am rapidly losing interest. He's not listening to me for some unknown reason, or else he thinks the phrase "call me" is interchangeable with the phrase "send a text message". I am practically grinding my teeth at the prospect of tonight's date. Any tips on getting over my annoyance and giving him the benefit of the doubt? And/or bringing this up at dinner and finding out why he keeps relying on text messages? In all events I plan to cut the date off in time to get home for Design Star at 10:00.
BobSacamento Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 It's far too early to make demands. This is how this guy operates. It's obvious he doesn't want to be calling you everyday and nor should he. But I think it's nice that he wants to txt between the communication. I'm getting the feeling you are more suspicious than anything or am I off?
Left in a Lurch Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 [headdesk] I thought I had been clear on the phone that I preferred him to call me - we had a funny exchange where he said "so give me a call sometime...or I can give you a call sometime...whichever" and I said "actually, I'd like for YOU to call ME" and he said, with a laugh, "okay, then, I'll call you." Message conveyed, no? I thought so, anyway. Except, yesterday, he texted me again. No call. I am at the frying pan stage of getting the message across and am rapidly losing interest. He's not listening to me for some unknown reason, or else he thinks the phrase "call me" is interchangeable with the phrase "send a text message". I am practically grinding my teeth at the prospect of tonight's date. Any tips on getting over my annoyance and giving him the benefit of the doubt? And/or bringing this up at dinner and finding out why he keeps relying on text messages? In all events I plan to cut the date off in time to get home for Design Star at 10:00. Well I think you are acting a little childish by digging your heels in and not calling him but REQUIRING him to call you. You are trying to control him. You say want to be "persued" but that is just so you can have all the power and a good relationship is two people pursuing each other. He is pursuing you, by the way, just not by calling on the phone. It's a little bit of a game on your part- can you make this guy do something he apparently doesn't like doing to prove himself to you? He has shown you over and over he just doesn't like to call on the phone, but apparently you need a frying pan to the head to get it, right? I think it is stupid and childish when women scream at seeing a spider and refuse to kill them but I am not going to force them to kill a spider, I just accept it as something they don't like to do and move on, no big deal. I'm not going to make them prove themselves to me by REQUIRING them to kill one and judge them as a woman-child because they are afraid of a tiny harmless bug. The phone is this guy's spider. I am sure you have "spiders" of your own you would not want to be judged solely on. Did you ever stop to think he might also be wanting you to call to gauge your interest? You might be sending mixed messages and he is testing you. I do hope if you're going on the date with a plan to attack him or vent or anything other than having a good time with him, and then plan to leave early to get home and watch TV, you'll at least pay for your own dinner. It would be a total dick move if you made him pay for it. I personally haaaattttteeee talking on the phone to women I don't know well. You cannot see their face or reaction. I have an extremely dry sense of humor and on the phone if people don't get it or can't see my delivery they will think I am serious and be offended because they won't get what I am actually saying. I have to be very careful about what I say so I do not offend them, so it becomes a very labored conversation for me because I have think about my responses before I say them. Once they know me, it's not a problem because they know when I am joking. If someone wanted to judge me solely on that, I hope they would be open enough with their own faults to judge themselves too.
butcher's hook Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 I'm sorry to say this but he is not into you. That is the bottom line. He is using the most noncommittal form of communication to let you down easy. I've done this in the past with guys I am not interested in, text message still doesn't shut them out completely but it puts me in a 100% not committed stance where I don't have to deal with a direct rejection which I am horrible at. I hate rejecting guys, but text lets me ween them out easier.
Left in a Lurch Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 I'm sorry to say this but he is not into you. That is the bottom line. He is using the most noncommittal form of communication to let you down easy. I've done this in the past with guys I am not interested in' date=' text message still doesn't shut them out completely but it puts me in a 100% not committed stance where I don't have to deal with a direct rejection which I am horrible at. I hate rejecting guys, but text lets me ween them out easier.[/quote'] Just an FYI- You know what is 100 times worse than being rejected by a woman? Not being rejected by a woman who is not interested in you. If you really, really, really want to hurt a guy over a long period of time, don't be honest and lead him on just enough to make him think you aren't rejecting him when really you are. It's easier for you, but hell for them.
butcher's hook Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 Just an FYI- You know what is 100 times worse than being rejected by a woman? Not being rejected by a woman who is not interested in you. If you really, really, really want to hurt a guy over a long period of time, don't be honest and lead him on just enough to make him think you aren't rejecting him when really you are. It's easier for you, but hell for them. I get that, and I totally understand what you are saying which is why I am terrible at having to be the one rejecting I feel really bad about it. If I know I will never see him again I will tell him flat out it's not going to work between us. But if I am on the fence (as the OP's guy seems to be in this case) and I am still studying him to see what he is about and if he will grow on me the last thing I want him to do when I am already pulling away is for him to come looking for me even more, in every single case that is what has killed it for me. If there was even a % inclination that I would want to get to know him better because he did appeal to me he absolutely killed it by coming on stronger when I pull away and ask to take things slow. Why is that? Why it that some guys the more you tell them no I don't want to go out again or I am busy I can't see you this weekend or whatever the reason might be, why do some guys just come on even stronger? I mean how clear do you have to be with some guys that you like to take it slow? And then there are those who you are brutally honest with and explain to them why it won't work and they just want to debate you to death back into liking them. I think I am pretty cool when it comes to guys, if I see signs he is pulling away I let him do his thing, I think men should be the same way with women don't come on stronger when a woman tries to tell you it's not happening due to imcompatibility or what have you. This is precisely why I resort to texts, who needs the headache of some needy chump who can't take no for an answer? Seriously it gets annoying. I don't usually sound this mean but it really does get annoying.
Left in a Lurch Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 Why is that? Why it that some guys the more you tell them no I don't want to go out again or I am busy I can't see you this weekend or whatever the reason might be, why do some guys just come on even stronger? I mean how clear do you have to be with some guys that you like to take it slow? And then there are those who you are brutally honest with and explain to them why it won't work and they just want to debate you to death back into liking them. I get what you are saying, not trying to come down on you personally. The first part about guys persisiting comes from having to be the alpha male and showing the "pursuit" to prove yourself. The start of this thread she said she likes to be pursued. That hard part for a guy is we have to do all the work and determine if she is just weeding out people by how strongly they will persue her. A lot of people I know that ended up married started out with the guy pursuing a woman that said she was not interested in him at all but eventually fell for him. Every romantic movie capitalizes on that concept as being insanely romantic, love at all costs bs. It's no wonder guys do this. I always see it like this though: How do you know when a woman really likes you? She'll agree to go out on dates. She'll laugh at your dumb jokes. She'll smile and flirt with you. She'll suggest getting together at a later date. She'll tell you she had fun and would like to do it again after a date. How do you know when a women is really trying to get rid of you? She'll agree to go out on dates. She'll laugh at your dumb jokes. She'll smile and flirt with you. She'll suggest getting together at a later date. She'll tell you she had fun and would like to do it again after a date. She'll tell her friends you are stalking her. So unless her friends tell you, you can see how hard it is for a guy to figure out. The second kind that try to debate it just make all guys look bad. There is no excuse for them. Just donkey punch them and walk away.
butcher's hook Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 ChatroomH this is where you missed the mark, an "alpha male" (I hate that stupid term it's so trite but since you wanna call it that....) knows how to read female signals it has nothing to do with men being expected to be the pursuers, they SHOULD be the pursuers but they should pursue where there are signs of potential. That is the key to knowing what you are doing VS not having a clue how to date. If a man keeps asking a woman out who is clearly giving him signs she does not want to see him he is not reading her at all therefore he is NO alpha male, he is just some chump following dating rules and missing the mark completely. A man should pursue where there are welcoming signs not where doors are being shut in his face. This is not like building a career, this is romance it's a different attitude altogether. It's like begging for work when someone already told you they are hiring someone else. Persistence is futile in that situation and men should not be persistent when the door is being shut. The same goes for women who hang on to a man's every sign for potential when he is clearly showing minimal if any signs of true interest like the OP's guy. If I were the OP I would have been done with this dude weeks ago. One text too many for my way of seeing things. Once you've been with enough people who were into you, you tend to know the signs. Clearly texting you lame messages and pretending to be available and then not, is not a sign of a man who is interested.
kizik Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 How do you know when a woman really likes you? She'll agree to go out on dates. She'll laugh at your dumb jokes. She'll smile and flirt with you. She'll suggest getting together at a later date. She'll tell you she had fun and would like to do it again after a date. How do you know when a women is really trying to get rid of you? She'll agree to go out on dates. She'll laugh at your dumb jokes. She'll smile and flirt with you. She'll suggest getting together at a later date. She'll tell you she had fun and would like to do it again after a date. She'll tell her friends you are stalking her. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Love it. So true. Thanks CRH. And ladies, stop sh*t-talking us just to make yourselves look good.
Left in a Lurch Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 If a man keeps asking a woman out who is clearly giving him signs she does not want to see him he is not reading her at all therefore he is NO alpha male, he is just some chump following dating rules and missing the mark completely. A man should pursue where there are welcoming signs not where doors are being shut in his face. This is not like building a career, this is romance it's a different attitude altogether. It's like begging for work when someone already told you they are hiring someone else. Persistence is futile in that situation and men should not be persistent when the door is being shut. I think where you miss the mark is that women do not give clear signals. It just doesn't happen very often in reality. Their signal is a peppy, "Sure, I'd like to go out again too!" and then when the guy calls and calls because he got the green light, she can't believe he won't take a hint when she doesn't answer. A week later he bumps into her in public and she acts like nothing happened and says, "I was really busy, but maybe we can get together next week" while her 'body language' is giving him a hug and a smile, and again she can't believe when he calls next week, how could he not get the hint? It's never a matter of a welcome sign vs. a closed door. It's more like a door cracked open with sign on it that says "Come Inside, Maybe". To a guy, "Lets' do it again some time" said with a smile means she wants to do it again, but in reality it may mean she wants to see him or she doesn't. Even other women don't know what womens signals are. It's very rare for a woman to give a clear signal to someone she is not interested in outside maybe a bar. Even you said you casually text the guy until he gets the hint and gets tired of texting you with no action on your part. That is not a clear signal, and you are in the majority of women, not the minority. You are leading them on, faking interest, hoping they'll learn you are just faking. You can't blame men for not catching the signals, because your signals are often the opposite of what you are trying to convey. Then again, sometimes they are not. Without reading your mind or knowing you intimately, how would we know what kind of woman you are and what your signals mean after one date?
kizik Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 CRH sums it up perfectly, again. Those are all great points. Women be confusin'!
Left in a Lurch Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 As an example I have gone out with women that I have had to call 3 times before I got a call back for a second date. I always figure if after a second call she doesn't call back she is not interested but 2 of the women I called multiple times were really into me, but shy to call back as I later found out. Another one called a day or two after I would call and she was not very interested at all. But we had conversations that were light and fun. How am I supposed to guess correctly which type of woman I am talking to after 1 date? Anyway, my apologies to the OP for getting off topic.
butcher's hook Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 I think where you miss the mark is that women do not give clear signals. It just doesn't happen very often in reality. Oh yes we do! When we are not interested or on the fence then we don't give clear signals. You need to learn to understand and see that. Messages don't get lost, or mysteriously gone from the phone system, the probabilities of that are slim to none. Especially now with call display she knows you have been calling message or no message there is NO excuse. As an example I have gone out with women that I have had to call 3 times before I got a call back for a second date. I always figure if after a second call she doesn't call back she is not interested but 2 of the women I called multiple times were really into me, but shy to call back as I later found out. That is your problem right there you are barking up the wrong tree. You can call her a few times to try to get her live, but you leave her ONE message if she does not return your call stop chasing her, you are wasting your time. You haven't learned to read the signals yet. That is what is confusing you. Stop chasing women that don't want to be chased by you, focus on the ones that reciprocate. Please, women are not shy to call back!! They are either playing stupid games of hard to get or feeding you a line, but they are NOT shy to call back a guy they like.
Left in a Lurch Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 That is your problem right there you are barking up the wrong tree. You can call her a few times to try to get her live, but you leave her ONE message if she does not return your call stop chasing her, you are wasting your time. You haven't learned to read the signals yet. That is what is confusing you. Stop chasing women that don't want to be chased by you, focus on the ones that reciprocate. Please, women are not shy to call back!! They are either playing stupid games of hard to get or feeding you a line, but they are NOT shy to call back a guy they like. Um, no, they were shy. They turned out to be very interested in me. One was talking marriage after a month. The one said she wanted to see how interested I was in her. In fact, she met me briefly at a friend's house and told him to give me her number. I think women think they are being clear because they know what they are thinking in their minds but forget the men are not reading their mind. I am guessing you have never tried to date a woman. I have had a woman at a party be relatively rude to me the entire night to a point where a mutual friend told her to lay off and I figured she hated me for some reason, later to hear from that friend's wife she asked if I was single and wanted her number. How am I supposed to read that signal? I have had one that agreed to a second date and told her best friend she thought I was cute and funny and liked that I was tall and athletic. She had no interest in me. She called me back whenever I called her and would talk at length about things. How was I supposed to read that?
butcher's hook Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 Um, no, they were shy. They turned out to be very interested in me. One was talking marriage after a month. The one said she wanted to see how interested I was in her. In fact, she met me briefly at a friend's house and told him to give me her number. Well more then shy she sounds kind of psycho! Nut jobs are in a league of their own. :laugh: I think women think they are being clear because they know what they are thinking in their minds but forget the men are not reading their mind. I am guessing you have never tried to date a woman. Fair enough I have neved dated women and I know women can be a real nightmare to deal with, I get that! I have had a woman at a party be relatively rude to me the entire night to a point where a mutual friend told her to lay off and I figured she hated me for some reason, later to hear from that friend's wife she asked if I was single and wanted her number. How am I supposed to read that signal? And how did that pan out did you call her and ask her out? More importantly WHY WOULD YOU call her and ask her out after how she treated you the very first time you interacted with her? Regardless of what she said to your friend after, that's hear say, what she did to you face to face is what you should focus on ACTIONS not words. She also sounds like a nut job, who needs that? That is not misleading you that is just you encountering a nut job don't even consider that in your realm of what women do to send men signals. I have had one that agreed to a second date and told her best friend she thought I was cute and funny and liked that I was tall and athletic. She had no interest in me. She called me back whenever I called her and would talk at length about things. How was I supposed to read that? It happens, people can be interested in the begining stage and then lose interest after a couple of dates. You should not go by what friends tell you, you should just go on your interaction with with your date directly. People talk, for all you know her friend was the one liking you and was just saying all that to pump you for your level of interest, there are all sorts of reasons why people do things. Ok quite possibly she really did like you on first meeting and then changed her mind, it does happen people ARE allowed to change, that's what dating is for. Nothing is cast in stone because you agree to go out on a date with someone. Is she sending you mixed messages or were you relying on third party info to decide the girl's level of interest? Now if SHE has told you she really liked you and whole lot of misleasleading comments and then turned around and treated you indifferently that's another story.
Author sunshinegirl Posted August 23, 2009 Author Posted August 23, 2009 So...some interesting discussion in this thread...some of it fairly wayward of the original situation. To the person who thinks I am trying to control this guy...I guess that is one way of seeing it. To my mind, I have made several very clear and direct requests, that he has ignored for one reason or another. I have given open, welcoming signals that I would be interested to get to know him better, with ONE REQUEST - that he pick up the phone. The flip side of the 'control' angle on this is his total dismissal and ignoring of said request. If he hated talking on the phone, he could SAY SO and we could have had a conversation about it. Instead he says "yes, I'll call you" and then he texts me. Or he keeps going back to "how about you call me?" For more background: my dating history is littered with episodes of me not standing up for myself, for accepting less than great or frankly disrespectful behavior. I have also been put in the position of initiating/leading relationships with men before (which I have gone ahead and done) and I neither liked being in that role, nor did the relationships work out. I am looking for a man who is willing to lead, to take a risk. If I like the man I will definitely encourage and follow. But I am done leading myself - I am just not compatible with the kind of men who like the women to lead. That being said, no doubt I am still learning how to strike the right balance between being clear about my needs versus being controlling about them, and maybe I am putting too much emphasis on the phone thing. But even beyond the phone thing, he has been forgetful about several things - for instance, two hours ago he texted me to ask if we were on for 6pm. On the phone Wednesday we agreed on 7pm. This is the third time he's forgotten details of when/where we're meeting. One time? No problem. But it's starting to look like a pattern, and it's an annoying pattern. And I do agree he's putting only halfhearted effort into this. As much as I am struggling with how to handle this situation, I am also trying hard to give him the benefit of the doubt and not judge too harshly. Unfortunately, every new interaction I have with him seems to confirm the flakiness/half-heartedness. It's to the point where I almost wonder if I should just cancel the date - (which is in an hour and a half) because all of this has pretty much killed my interest, and I'm not really sure what will revive it at this point. If I do go, I will definitely pay my own way. I'm not a jerk and I'm not out to 'get a free meal.' UPDATE: I canceled the date. My attitude is too far in the hole at this point and it didn't seem fair for him to be on a date with someone who has already written him off.
butcher's hook Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 For more background: my dating history is littered with episodes of me not standing up for myself, for accepting less than great or frankly disrespectful behavior. Yes and it seemed like you were doing it again here. You were trying too hard to see if someone liked you that is only on the fence about you. Though I think that probably given how you may have behaved in the past this was at least a step in the right direction so give yourself a pat on the back for that. For being more assertive in making your needs heard and showing in your actions what is going to work and what is not. Good for you for that. I have also been put in the position of initiating/leading relationships with men before (which I have gone ahead and done) and I neither liked being in that role, nor did the relationships work out. It rarely does work when the woman takes all the initiative so don't feel bad about that, you have living proof of why it doesn't work it will help you act with conviction. I am looking for a man who is willing to lead, to take a risk. If I like the man I will definitely encourage and follow. But I am done leading myself - I am just not compatible with the kind of men who like the women to lead. You are not alone, I think most women don't want to be with some sap who sits like a lump on a log waiting for the woman to do all the work. That being said, no doubt I am still learning how to strike the right balance between being clear about my needs versus being controlling about them, and maybe I am putting too much emphasis on the phone thing. I don't think you were being controlling, I would have to see what the poster who said that meant by that?, I don't get that!?! I think you're getting much better at drafting out a game plan for yourself and spotting the signs of the types of men that are undesirable. You will get very good at it and able to waste less time as you go along! And I do agree he's putting only halfhearted effort into this. As much as I am struggling with how to handle this situation, I am also trying hard to give him the benefit of the doubt and not judge too harshly. Unfortunately, every new interaction I have with him seems to confirm the flakiness/half-heartedness. Nah enough is enough, it's one thing to be open minded and nice about giving people a chance, it is another to bark up the wrong tree. UPDATE: I canceled the date. My attitude is too far in the hole at this point and it didn't seem fair for him to be on a date with someone who has already written him off. Good job!! Don't waste another moment on that dude, he sounds like a complete waste of time for you. Whatever it was that attracted you to him should be seriously reconsidered given how he as acted this far. Nice job Sunshinegirl! You will feel so much better about this than waiting around for someone who only makes you feel worse about yourself. Look at all the guesing you were having to do with this guy. Dating should not be this hard.
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