Author NOTSURE7 Posted August 18, 2009 Author Posted August 18, 2009 I agree...I think he is trying to save you from some pain...it's kind of like drunk drivers who go to talk to teens about not drinking. I know I have advised many to not start affairs because of the pain it has caused me. this is exactly what i am trying to do...who better than to give advice than someone who has lived it and done the same things... but apparently i am in a fog because i am trying to help her with my experince because people have a hard time beeliveing that 6 weeks later i can actually understand what i did wrong in my life.. its the exact opposite, i am out of the fog.... I hope a bit of what i have told you resonates and at best just look out for yourself jennie..
Devil Inside Posted August 18, 2009 Posted August 18, 2009 Again, not at all about the actual advice... it is the wording of it that offended me. And btw... I sure as hell don't think I am helping anyone....seriously... my opinions, thoughts are mine and certainly aren't better than anyone's. I am not one to judge a MM/OW/OM or a BS.....really...... just trying to get through this myself..... not preaching to anyone Sanafa opinions help. I know that reading about other OW's experiences really helped me understand how much I was hurting her. Reading other BS's experiences helped me to understand how my W might feel. Reading anyone's experience of an A helped me feel not so alone. I know you're not giving advice...but I have been helped by your words.
Author NOTSURE7 Posted August 18, 2009 Author Posted August 18, 2009 Read the first five pages...good stuff..I will have to go back and read some more later. We are about the same age my friend...both have little kids. I understand you on many levels. Good to see that you have gotten to a point where you and the W are stronger...it gives me hope. Did you continue to go to IC for awhile, did it help fill that void that your addicitive behaviors filled? oh i am just at the beggining my friend...i actually confessed to my w 6 weeks ago...i am in ic and mc and its truly an amazing life changing experience i am going through.. once you come out of the affair fog and allow yourself a true chance to make decisions, things can become clear and you can make positive changes if you allow yourself the chance...i am not saying confessing is for everyone because i have to tell you the devastation i have caused the woman i love and the sadness and the broken heart i gave her are beyond comprehension and hard to swallow but i was never breaking my cycle unless i faced a severe consequence and confessing to her was about as severe as it gets.. so now i am facing it all head on and we are building a stronger,honest and real future together, it will take alot of time but at least i feel i am on the right path finally... some may say i am in a fog but i can tell you i am very clear headed,more than i have ever been in my 11 years of marriage.. good luck buddy..
Sanafa Posted August 18, 2009 Posted August 18, 2009 Sanafa opinions help. I know that reading about other OW's experiences really helped me understand how much I was hurting her. Reading other BS's experiences helped me to understand how my W might feel. Reading anyone's experience of an A helped me feel not so alone. I know you're not giving advice...but I have been helped by your words. They do of course, but opinions can be taken or left...and wording on the internet is important.... Personally, I prefer those who talk about thier experiences rather than assuming an outcome for another. Just me... I have learned tons... from yourself, Gammon, Phoneix, Tammi... and I am sure I am missing some... and I always appreciate an honest, genuine opinion.... I really do. As I said, I have read most of NS post's, and again... in my opinion coming up of Dday of 2 months and NC of just about a month.... all I can say is the radical 180 is not only rare but seldom lasts. Hence my narcissist comment - I have read and read and read... and imo sounds as if denial is in full force or he truly didn't care about the OW. So for his opinion to be most "use"... I will say.... we all use everyone in our life...that does not mean that we or they don't love us/them. Everyone brings us and can teach us something....it's what we do with it that is important.
jennie-jennie Posted August 18, 2009 Posted August 18, 2009 this is exactly what i am trying to do...who better than to give advice than someone who has lived it and done the same things... but apparently i am in a fog because i am trying to help her with my experince because people have a hard time beeliveing that 6 weeks later i can actually understand what i did wrong in my life.. its the exact opposite, i am out of the fog.... I hope a bit of what i have told you resonates and at best just look out for yourself jennie.. I truly do appreciate your concern for me. You do understand that, don't you?
Author NOTSURE7 Posted August 18, 2009 Author Posted August 18, 2009 I truly do appreciate your concern for me. You do understand that, don't you? i do understand that...its not often on these boards i can write something from experience that might help someone, i am usually the one getting advice or defending myself so when i get the chance to help someone i get passionate about it, your a grown woman and you will make your own decisions, i was just giving you insight into the mind of a mm who has done and said all the same things your mm is saying.. i wish you the best of luck..
jennie-jennie Posted August 18, 2009 Posted August 18, 2009 Yes, it is very interesting to look into the mind of a MM. And into yours as well, Devil Inside. What a name to choose by the way? And Not Sure, what were you not sure about - which woman to choose?
Devil Inside Posted August 18, 2009 Posted August 18, 2009 Yes, it is very interesting to look into the mind of a MM. And into yours as well, Devil Inside. What a name to choose by the way? And Not Sure, what were you not sure about - which woman to choose? Ahh what a screen name...lol...I chose it because I think we all have another part of us inside...a part that we may filter in our everyday lives for many reasons. Even though I try to be as genuine as possible, I often have to keep a lot inside...I figured, when I post here, I can let out that Devil...just a name...not necessarily evil. That and I like the song (INXS). I got to say...it is also interesting to look into the mind of an OW. Very enlightening.
jennie-jennie Posted August 18, 2009 Posted August 18, 2009 DI, your avatar is also fascinating. Compare your avatar to mine. LOL. What are we trying to say?
Devil Inside Posted August 18, 2009 Posted August 18, 2009 DI, your avatar is also fascinating. Compare your avatar to mine. LOL. What are we trying to say? LOL!! ! Appears we are a match! Your dungeon or mine?
jennie-jennie Posted August 18, 2009 Posted August 18, 2009 "LOL!! ! Appears we are a match! Your dungeon or mine?"
Kamikaze Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 this is more nonsense, your comparing abuse to selfish people who have affairs?..i mean really... people in affairs can make decisions without any fear...people who are abused have real fear..that comparison makes no sense. if someone wants to leave there marriage for there so called love of there life or soulmate, they will do it,the reason they dont is because they are selfish and the affair was self serving and thats the reason, they dont want the ow, they just wanted what they had in the a and when they had there cake and to eat it too.. Sorry, you have no idea what you are talking about. All too often, men will not admit, even to themselves, the fact that they are the victim in an abusive relationship. This is related to shame, fear, and belief that it is not as bad the aftermath of leaving. Maybe some will call it love but it is hard to understand how somebody could love a monster, who is inflicting physical and emotional damage on him.
MistyK Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 I don't know whether the problem is that you're full of it or completely soul-less, but I am starting to think it's the latter. Originally Posted by NOTSURE7 hey i am a wh so i can relate to what your ssaying and i can also see the bs your mm is spewing to keep you on the hook.. So is this some kind of admission that you treated the OW like crap? I hope so. Because as long as you're supposedly taking responsibility for your behaviors, you ought to do it for ALL of your selfish behaviors. You don't get a free pass just because she was M and being selfish too. personally i think that the ow is just as selfish and self serving as the om... Speak for yourself and your own OW. If this makes you feel better about excusing yourself for how you treated the OW, then ok, but it's still nonsense. 2 lives isisnt doing crap to him, he will string you along as long as the game can continue and he has you exactly where he wants you, you are beliveing his lines... So all of those 30-odd pages in your original thread about how awful it was for you to live a lie was crap? Are you denying that it was awful for you at the time - now that you are drinking plentifully at the well of sanctimonious hypocrisy? Honest to God, in real life, when people change their lives and hearts on a dime like you did others wonder if they've been brainwashed or joined a cult. I think you are superficially taking responsibility to deflect the crap from the mess you've created. You're just trying to weasel as quickly as possible to calm waters again. You are right, you are just like Jenni's MM. people in affairs can make decisions without any fear...people who are abused have real fear..that comparison makes no sense. REALLY? Fear of the loss of the life you've built, the loss of your full-time parental rights, fear of financial implications - is that all BS too? You certainly had a lot of fear. I guess that was all fake now that you've found redemption. but apparently i am in a fog because i am trying to help her with my experince because people have a hard time beeliveing that 6 weeks later i can actually understand what i did wrong in my life.. its the exact opposite, i am out of the fog.... You're in a totally different fog. When it clears, you'll be way less arrogant, and you might actually have a genuine chance at a REAL connection with your W. Sigh.
SidLyon Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 oh i am right..lol someday you will be sitting there amist your tears and you will say damn that not sure knew what he was talking about... you know the old expression, takes one to know one, beleive me i can see just by his boat analogy what is coming because i have driven that same boat and i also crashed my boat.... Funny but I read the e-mails my H sent to the OW when their A was raging. The boat analogy featured strongly; comparing his marriage to me as being safe and stable on a river and his A as being on a mountain stream about to crash onto rocks. After d-day he let the kayak founder on the rocks (ie threw her under the bus - don't you love these analogies) and chose to save the sinking boat (ha - me -yuk) but no going back to rescue the kayak because that has well and truly broken up. S
PhoenixRise Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 What he is saying is he is not ready to choose yet, and a Dday would not make him make up his mind. As long as he is still undecided he will do what it takes to keep both boats floating. Will he ever decide? Who knows? I haven't figured out yet if he is a cake-eater or not. The future will show. He claims he needs to make a decision because living two lives is too hard on him. But what child shall he kill? LOL Better stop using metaphores now. Don't know what has gotten into me today. JJ What if he HAS already made a decision and the status quo is what he has decided on. Based on his boat analogy it seems that way. My MM explained D-day and "throwing the OW under the bus" like this: You have two boats that you love. One boat starts sinking. You are going to concentrate on that one until it is saved. When you know it is floating safely again, you will have time to think about your other boat. __________________ Unapologetic Other Woman MM has two boats. MM LIKES having 2 boats. If disaster strikes and dday happens he will do and say whatever it takes to keep the endangered boat afloat. When the waters are calm again he will go right back to being a man who enjoys having 2 boats. Why should he decide anything that would change this set up?
MistyK Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 JJ, I think Phoenix is right. But the metaphor isn't totally accurate. Both boats actually have a slow leak and MM is ignoring it. (The leak: The longer it goes on, the more frustrated you will get and the more likely his W will find out. He's not giving his all to either relationship because he's trying to maintain both). If he does nothing, both boats will sink but we can't tell which one will go under first. One boats needs to be bailed out and the other needs to be let sink. Right now the leak is slow, but that can change at any time. It can't stay like this - something will have to happen one way or another and hopefully you don't get destroyed in the wake. BTW, my xMM gave me a boat analogy too. He said he wanted to make sure my boat was stable before he'd hop in (all that time waffling before he moved out) and since then he'd been standing with one foot in each boat as the boats move slowly away from each other (still not being definitive with either R).
confusedinkansas Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 1st let me say - the boat analogies......cracking me up - TRUE as they are - I just can't believe I'd never heard them before. 2nd - I understand sort of - why you all are being so hard on NS. I too believe it is totally impossible to have Zero feelings for an affair partner ONE day after D-day. (Unless of course you are a pretty cold hearted human) No one says that you have to pine away for this person for the rest of your life. No one said you have to keep her in the foreground of your thoughts. But to say that you basically couldn't care less....well that's kinda cold. Perhaps his arrogance (as it's coming across) is the old FAKE IT TIL YOU MAKE IT. (theory) You believe something in your head but your heart doesn't buy into the theory. So, you keep saying things are what they are - such as "I have NO feelings or care nothing at all for this other woman, never did, never will again" Say it long enough & eventually your brain & your heart catch up with each other (does that make sense)
jennie-jennie Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 Phoenix and Misty, I hear you. I am very aware of the risk that MM will prefer to let this go on forever.
confusedinkansas Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 Here's something else I thought of - & I am probably just as guilty as the next guy. Those of us that have been in affairs - We still come to LS...we still talk of our tribulations & troubles that the affair has caused in our lives.... Doesn't THIS ALONE Keep the affair partner somewhat in the foreground of our thoughts?? We're still basically talking about THEM. We are still talking about what happened.....As well as how our lives have changed, BUT the reality is - if it weren't for the affair partner, we wouldn't be here in the first place - Now would we? Just a thought!
MistyK Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 1st let me say - the boat analogies......cracking me up - TRUE as they are - I just can't believe I'd never heard them before. I also got a pool analogy from him. I am the pool, nice and warm and he knows he can swim, but didn't want the ladder (his W) taken away yet. I get it, everyone likes to have a plan B. But that's so wrong. It always pissed me off that xMM "needed" his plan B (his W) until he was "sure" about the D and being with me, but I was not afforded the same luxry - dating other people while he "decided" was absolutely out of the question. And it's not like his W had a fallback either.
Spark1111 Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 I also got a pool analogy from him. I am the pool, nice and warm and he knows he can swim, but didn't want the ladder (his W) taken away yet. I get it, everyone likes to have a plan B. But that's so wrong. It always pissed me off that xMM "needed" his plan B (his W) until he was "sure" about the D and being with me, but I was not afforded the same luxry - dating other people while he "decided" was absolutely out of the question. And it's not like his W had a fallback either. Ah, Misty, and that is the rub of it isn't it? He gets his pool and his ladder, while neither you or his unknowing spouse have the oppurtunity to swim in new pools! Or, neither the OW or BS have the opportunity to hire a new boat builder!:p:p God, I love metaphors!
Devil Inside Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 Phoenix and Misty, I hear you. I am very aware of the risk that MM will prefer to let this go on forever. So JJ...the real question...if he is never going to leave his W...is that ok with you?
Author NOTSURE7 Posted August 19, 2009 Author Posted August 19, 2009 I don't know whether the problem is that you're full of it or completely soul-less, but I am starting to think it's the latter. So is this some kind of admission that you treated the OW like crap? I hope so. Because as long as you're supposedly taking responsibility for your behaviors, you ought to do it for ALL of your selfish behaviors. You don't get a free pass just because she was M and being selfish too. Speak for yourself and your own OW. If this makes you feel better about excusing yourself for how you treated the OW, then ok, but it's still nonsense. So all of those 30-odd pages in your original thread about how awful it was for you to live a lie was crap? Are you denying that it was awful for you at the time - now that you are drinking plentifully at the well of sanctimonious hypocrisy? Honest to God, in real life, when people change their lives and hearts on a dime like you did others wonder if they've been brainwashed or joined a cult. I think you are superficially taking responsibility to deflect the crap from the mess you've created. You're just trying to weasel as quickly as possible to calm waters again. You are right, you are just like Jenni's MM. REALLY? Fear of the loss of the life you've built, the loss of your full-time parental rights, fear of financial implications - is that all BS too? You certainly had a lot of fear. I guess that was all fake now that you've found redemption. You're in a totally different fog. When it clears, you'll be way less arrogant, and you might actually have a genuine chance at a REAL connection with your W. Sigh. looks like i definetely hit an ow nerve here...lol thanks for your opinion but i feel right now i have a genuine chance at a real connection with my w because i am not spending my days wondering and pining and posting and dreying on and on about the ow,the fact is i chose to end my A and go no contact, so to keep her in my mind and keep on wondering this and that serves no purpose. i beleive the only way to have a true shot at a real connection is to free your mind and be clear..
Author NOTSURE7 Posted August 19, 2009 Author Posted August 19, 2009 JJ What if he HAS already made a decision and the status quo is what he has decided on. Based on his boat analogy it seems that way. My MM explained D-day and "throwing the OW under the bus" like this: You have two boats that you love. One boat starts sinking. You are going to concentrate on that one until it is saved. When you know it is floating safely again, you will have time to think about your other boat. __________________ Unapologetic Other Woman MM has two boats. MM LIKES having 2 boats. If disaster strikes and dday happens he will do and say whatever it takes to keep the endangered boat afloat. When the waters are calm again he will go right back to being a man who enjoys having 2 boats. Why should he decide anything that would change this set up? This is exactly my point..i mean he starts off with "throwing the OW under the bus" I dont think there is any mystery as to what the mm will eventually do here.. he loves having 2 boats,aka having your cake and eating it too..he basically says that when the first boat crashes(the ow and the affair) that he will throw the ow under the bus until he calms the other boat down(the bs), and who knows how long that will really take and then maybe he will return, its funny that the ow find this acceptable.. so here i am trying to just help her to realize that this mm is playing her because i was that mm and i can give her valuable insight but yet i seem to hit a nerve and i am told instead that i am in a fog.. what seems to be is that ow's dont want to beleive that we mm are all alike,they dont beleive it until they are hurt and posting on here looking for answers as to why and how this could have happened.. They all think that their mm is the real deal and different from the rest,that he loves her so much and wants to be with her but he just cant leave his W, they beleive his stories and his manipulations,so for all that beleive their mm are so truthful and real i also have to tell you: i just saw elvis having breakfast with a martian on a ufo and they were headed to see bigfoot because they beleive he was on the grassy knoll the day jfk was shot..
MistyK Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 looks like i definetely hit an ow nerve here...lol thanks for your opinion but i feel right now i have a genuine chance at a real connection with my w because i am not spending my days wondering and pining and posting and dreying on and on about the ow,the fact is i chose to end my A and go no contact, so to keep her in my mind and keep on wondering this and that serves no purpose. i beleive the only way to have a true shot at a real connection is to free your mind and be clear.. Honestly I find it annoying that you justify your "stringing along" the OW by the idea that she was selfish too (and she was in this case, obviously as a MW). But that doesn't make it ok for you to use people and discard them like trash. You really ought to think about taking responsibility for everything, not just what your W wants to hear. There are some people who actually emotionally connect with the OW, obviously you weren't as emotionally involved as you thought (based on your posts). It's a wee bit sociopathic if you ask me, but ok, whatever works for you. Since you can obviously use people so easily, I wonder what you are able to offer your W at this point. Are you even capable of genuine emotional connection? The fact that you just don't understand how people cannot shut off their emotions like a faucet is indicative of a real problem here. You are right though, a WH needs to find a way to let go of feelings to stay in a M, but wanting that to happen doesn't always make it so, and everybody does so in their own time. I think it's particularly difficult for MP who were dumped by the OP because it wasn't them wanting it over to save the M. They are left with the same ambivalence about the M they had before, at least in the immediate aftermath- I guess I ought to do the right thing now. You know?
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