I just dont get it

[ladydesigner]

NS I have to say at first reading this post it struck a chord in me and made me feel used by my OM. But as time has gone on and I really think about your original post...you know what... good for you! That you have moved on and are putting 100% effort into your marriage. That is the way it should be when you end an affair. I am slowly getting to where you are in that I am beginning to wonder what I even saw in my xOM and am really starting to move forward in a positive direction in my own marriage.

[taylor]

taylor

 

Why are you basically trying to get rid of NS by throwing the "internet usage" and "talking to women" thing in his face?

 

Your inability to see that you are doing the exact same thing is just incredulous. Everything that you are saying to him, you should be saying to yourself. You are using every angle you can find to basically say to him that "you are better" and "he is worse".

 

Maybe you should be the person to stop posting to this thread. It is only triggering you in the worse ways.

 

I am not trying to get rid of him. And I don't think I am better than him.

 

We are both wayward spouses.

 

But if he is in marital recovery and in MC, I am sure his MC discussed BOUNDARIES with him and the need to establish TRUST.

 

If a man's affair started in a bar, do you think it would be wise for a man to continue frequenting bars if his goal was to set firm boundaries and establish trust?

 

Same thing.

 

I did not use the internet to initiate my affair. Therefore, no need to "tighten" boundaries there.

 

My affair started at work and THAT is where I had to tighten my boundaries.

 

I am not being "triggered." NS is the one "seething", not me.

 

What I am doing is taking a good look at the steps he is taking in his marital recovery and I see a huge red flag. I am questioning the boundaries that have been established in marital recovery.

 

If my affair started on the internet, believe me, there would be firm boundaries established regarding my usage..either implemented by my husband, my MC, or myself.....regardless of what I said my intentions were.

 

Being in chat rooms and forums is not maintaining firm boundaries in light of how his affair started.

[whichwayisup]

Sorry, but I don't see NS "seething" anywhere.

 

Another thing, NS and I have pm'd and NOT ONCE has he come onto me or even flirted. I don't even know his real name.

 

None of his posts are 'friendly/flirty' in any nature and he is sticking to this section and the OW/OM section, it's not like he's participating in other sections of LS and flirting it up with anyone.

 

You may not see it, but you are being triggered and his posts are bringing out alot of anger and frustration.

[taylor]

He isn't "chatting up" other women. He's getting advice! That's a low blow.. Did YOU tell your H about your postings? "Chatting it up" with other men on here?

 

It doesn't matter what he is doing here.

 

He used the internet to cheat. A firmer boundary should be in place regarding his usage and I can't believe his MC and wife have not insisted on this.

 

 

MANY CS's and even BS's don't tell their spouses about this place..

 

Yes, my husband is quite aware of my postings on LS. For the first 3 or 4 months after D-day, when he came home from work, I would read the threads to him. We were both looking for insight.

 

But after a few months he lost interest in this forum.

 

He knows my username and has access to it at any time.

 

But, to tell you the truth, my husband is not concerned about my internet usage because this is not how my affair started.

 

He is much more concerned about who I work with and the boundaries being implemented there..because THAT is how my affair started.

 

I don't think asking NS if his wife or MC was comfortable with him being in a chat room/forum is a low blow. I thought it was a pertinent question.

[taylor]

My post only came across harsh because i was still seething

 

Uh...he's the one who said he was seething.

[NOTSURE7]

I am not trying to get rid of him. And I don't think I am better than him.

 

We are both wayward spouses.

 

But if he is in marital recovery and in MC, I am sure his MC discussed BOUNDARIES with him and the need to establish TRUST.

 

If a man's affair started in a bar, do you think it would be wise for a man to continue frequenting bars if his goal was to set firm boundaries and establish trust?

 

Same thing.

 

I did not use the internet to initiate my affair. Therefore, no need to "tighten" boundaries there.

 

My affair started at work and THAT is where I had to tighten my boundaries.

 

I am not being "triggered." NS is the one "seething", not me.

 

What I am doing is taking a good look at the steps he is taking in his marital recovery and I see a huge red flag. I am questioning the boundaries that have been established in marital recovery.

 

If my affair started on the internet, believe me, there would be firm boundaries established regarding my usage..either implemented by my husband, my MC, or myself.....regardless of what I said my intentions were.

 

Being in chat rooms and forums is not maintaining firm boundaries in light of how his affair started.

 

 

your affair started at work, do you go to work?...

 

I use the internet for work, its my business,i come here for help and to post and gain insight to try and help me and my marriage...

 

i dont even know if half the people who post are man or woman and it makes no difference, you are really grasping at straws with this one taylor...

[taylor]

Sorry, but I don't see NS "seething" anywhere.

 

Another thing, NS and I have pm'd and NOT ONCE has he come onto me or even flirted. I don't even know his real name.

 

None of his posts are 'friendly/flirty' in any nature and he is sticking to this section and the OW/OM section, it's not like he's participating in other sections of LS and flirting it up with anyone.

 

You may not see it, but you are being triggered and his posts are bringing out alot of anger and frustration.

 

It doesn't matter what he is doing in the forum.

 

Just the fact that he is permitted to log onto a chat room is what I am questioning.

 

It's hard to believe his MC or wife would be comfortable or approve of this in light of how his affair started.

 

What do you think an MC would say to a cheating spouse who used the internet to find women? Would the MC feel perfectly comfortable with the cheating spouse logging on to chat rooms just a few months after D-day....REGARDLESS of what he was doing there.

 

A man who cheated on a woman at a bar could go to the bar every week thereafter to shoot pool. Do you think his MC would consider this wise? Do you think his wife would have no qualms with it?

[whichwayisup]

Uh...he's the one who said he was seething.

Okay sorry, I didn't see that. The thing is Taylor, it's like you're a bulldog and you keep on pushing pushing pushing. Eventually people react and get 'seethed'.

 

Honestly, if you don't care what he does offline (you mentioned that yesterday) then why even bother replying? OFFLINE he's working on himself, his marriage, fixing things with his wife. I really don't think you care either way about NS, so again, what's the point of posting? You just want to point out all negative stuff and not give him any credit for his efforts NOW. Why beat up on him about the past? That's like giving an OW sh.it for having an affair with the first place, instead of encouraging her and supporting her for ENDING an affair with a MM.

[taylor]

MANY CS's.... don't tell their spouses about this place..

 

They should...complete transparency.

 

Otherwise, you are hiding something.

 

And one thing I learned from LS is don't do anything you don't want your spouse to know about or see.

 

Why hide the forum from your BS?

 

There isn't anything you write here that your BS shouldn't already be privvy to in either private discussion or MC sessions.

[NOTSURE7]

Uh...he's the one who said he was seething.

 

again you try to make me look bad...why dont you at the least show the whole qoute..

 

so here is the actual qoute below:not just taylors abridged version...

 

My post only came across harsh because i was still seething over her previous post to me and how hypoctitical people like taylor have been towards me...

 

so you can seei was responding specifiacally to Nid telling me that my post sounded harsh but my points were valid so what taylor failed to show is that i actually wrote the seething portion in direct response to something and i never stated i was seething over all..

 

just another attempt to try and make me look bad..

[whichwayisup]

It isn't a "chatroom".

 

And, I think his wife knew he was posting here, getting help, she would be OK with it, as would the MC. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know.

[whichwayisup]

Because people have the right to come here and vent stuff out of their heads, just like having a PRIVATE conversation with a friend. That is what LS is like. A place to vent, to cry, to open up and be honest..Get advice. Get a grip on things..

 

Anyway, I'm done with this and now want to just focus on NS9's posts. Take care Taylor.

[NoIDidn't]

taylor is really just grasping at straws and thinks no one else can see it, because SHE can't see it.

 

Until she calms down or at least realizes what she is doing, I recommend that NS put her on Ignore.

[NoIDidn't]

your affair started at work, do you go to work?...

 

I notice there hasn't been an answer to this. And it was an excellent point to make.

[taylor]

Taylor, I'm just trying to understand your frame of mind, your anger and resentment towards NS9.

 

Ok, I will try to explain my frame of mind.

 

I am a wayward spouse, just like NS.

 

I have been in marital recovery for 1.5 years and the recovery is going very well. This weekend my husband and I will be renewing our vows and leaving for a second honeymoon. I take these vows seriously. They have great meaning to both my husband and I in light of all that we have been through, not just last year, but in the past 5 or so years.

 

When I look back and see how far we have come..from a point where I thought there was no hope whatsoever in recovering the marriage..no hope in fixing that which was broken inside of me...it takes my breath away.

 

That's my personal state of mind right now. I am about to take a huge leap into the future with my husband and I CAN'T WAIT.

 

I know you and others here won't believe this when I say this, but I WANT NS TO GET TO THIS POINT.

 

But I see him making some grave mistakes..ones that do not bode well for recovery. And I call him on it. If he feels uncomfortable, it's because I am trying to force him to look deeper inside himself and answer the hard questions.

 

Some posters choose to hold his hand and be his own personal cheerleading squad. He has enough cheerleaders.

 

As a wayward spouse, like him, I want to give him the proverbial kick in the pants...take a closer look at who he is and what he is doing.

 

Anyone can pat him on the back and say "great job." Yes, that serves a purpose, but it's not enough.

 

I gained at least, if not more, insight from the posters who tore me to shreds...amde me question every thing I said and did... than from the ones who held my hand and agreed with everything I said.

 

 

 

It takes alot of strength to also open up like he has on a public forum and take the beatings he has taken..And he's still here!! Most who get beat up like he has, LEAVE LS and never come back. I give him credit for still posting and facing the music.

 

Yes, it does. And I took the "beatings" as well and faced the music, as well. And I am still here, as well.

 

Like I said, when I look back on the past 1.5 years on LS, I can easily see NOW how those posters who called me out on my own words did far more to help me see the light than those who held my hand.

[whichwayisup]

Yet 1.5 years later, you're still going on about your exOM, feeling like you owe him something, an apology, something..That you two are in NC, happy about it, yet feel slighted as he hasn't contacted you.. The fact he still is in your mind, maybe even in your heart and the way you have been posting to NS, I DO hope you now focus on your husband and have a full recovery.. NS WILL get to that point, but remember, he's well over a year away from where you are.

[NoIDidn't]

Ok, I will try to explain my frame of mind.

 

I am a wayward spouse, just like NS.

 

I have been in marital recovery for 1.5 years and the recovery is going very well. This weekend my husband and I will be renewing our vows and leaving for a second honeymoon. I take these vows seriously. They have great meaning to both my husband and I in light of all that we have been through, not just last year, but in the past 5 or so years.

 

When I look back and see how far we have come..from a point where I thought there was no hope whatsoever in recovering the marriage..no hope in fixing that which was broken inside of me...it takes my breath away.

 

That's my personal state of mind right now. I am about to take a huge leap into the future with my husband and I CAN'T WAIT.

 

I know you and others here won't believe this when I say this, but I WANT NS TO GET TO THIS POINT.

 

But I see him making some grave mistakes..ones that do not bode well for recovery. And I call him on it. If he feels uncomfortable, it's because I am trying to force him to look deeper inside himself and answer the hard questions.

 

Some posters choose to hold his hand and be his own personal cheerleading squad. He has enough cheerleaders.

 

As a wayward spouse, like him, I want to give him the proverbial kick in the pants...take a closer look at who he is and what he is doing.

 

Anyone can pat him on the back and say "great job." Yes, that serves a purpose, but it's not enough.

 

I gained at least, if not more, insight from the posters who tore me to shreds...amde me question every thing I said and did... than from the ones who held my hand and agreed with everything I said.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, it does. And I took the "beatings" as well and faced the music, as well. And I am still here, as well.

 

Like I said, when I look back on the past 1.5 years on LS, I can easily see NOW how those posters who called me out on my own words did far more to help me see the light than those who held my hand.

 

This is bull. You have done nothing but insult the man since you started on this thread.

 

Maybe you took offense to the fact that it seemed like he was frustrated with you for venting about your affair that's long since been ended. But, you have offered him nothing by way of help. Unless the constant barrage of my-affair-was-for-better-reasons is considered help to you.

[whichwayisup]

Like I said, when I look back on the past 1.5 years on LS, I can easily see NOW how those posters who called me out on my own words did far more to help me see the light than those who held my hand.

 

Oh trust me, I am not hand holding..Did you not see my earlier replies to him when he first got here? Maybe you see it as hand holding now since I have been standing up for him recently, but trust me, I still am harsh and have no problem pointing something out to him - I'll just do it respectfully and not put him down. What's the point of that? When you put someone down, they aren't going to take in your advice PERIOD. Noone has been "hand holding" NS. BNB, NID, and not me..

[NoIDidn't]

Oh trust me, I am not hand holding..Did you not see my earlier replies to him when he first got here? Maybe you see it as hand holding now since I have been standing up for him recently, but trust me, I still am harsh and have no problem pointing something out to him - I'll just do it respectfully and not put him down. What's the point of that? When you put someone down, they aren't going to take in your advice PERIOD. Noone has been "hand holding" NS. BNB, NID, and not me..

 

Precisely, no one has been holding his hand. When he started this thread, he was accused of turning his emotions off "like a faucet".

 

He's been attacked from the start of this thread. The theme of i'm-a-more-moral-cheater is what sprung from accusing him of basically being heartless.

 

No one has held his hand. It really disengenuous to even imply that.

[taylor]

I notice there hasn't been an answer to this. And it was an excellent point to make.

 

Sorry, NID, I was busy answering WWIU's question.

 

I went back to work for one day, doing the work I am trained and skilled at.

 

But by the end of the day I knew that was not the place I should be working at so soon after D-day.

 

The company had 90 men and 10 women working there.

 

I knew that would not be an environment my husband would want me in in light of the affair and the fact that it started at work. I also felt uncomfortable there. It was like deja vu (sp).

 

So I quit at the end of the day although I was making 30 percent more in pay than at the job where my affair took place.

 

I KNEW where I needed to establish boundaries for myself and so that my husband would feel comfortable. Some posters here agreed that was a wise thing to do to set firm boundaries.

 

I now work parttime at a community center filled with children coming for swimming lessons and elderly women coming for water aerobics. I work during the day when there are few, if any, men around.

 

In time, when I believe trust has been completely established (if that is even possible) I will probably venture back into my real line of work which would put me working in a male-dominated environment again.

 

I am not ready for that and either is my marriage. I opt to establish trust first and foremost.

[Devil Inside]

I don't agree with this. All affairs are, indeed, a result of something broken....inside the person stepping out of the marriage. And frequently that is VERY one-sided. Sure, the problems in the marriage may exacerbate the brokenness inside the one that decided to cheat, but it doesn't MAKE that person cheat.

 

Affairs are about choices. As DI said, his choices were ALL in favor of cheating.

 

I remember my H telling me he was tired of apologizing for what he had done to everyone. I told him, to stop apologizing then. And start doing something that proved that he was sorry. No one wants to constantly hear "sorry" when the actions continue to say "not sorry". KWIM?

 

Excellent post. I know in my case...my issues were exacerbated by the issues in my marriage and vice versa. However, I still made the choices I did...the wrong ones.

 

I think it is important for mt to acknowledge the core issues that are dysfunctional in myself...so that I can work on them. I also need to work on the issues in my marriage. I think my inability to ask for what I want led to be being very unhappy in my marriage.

 

Did my wife have something to do with this...of course. However, I should have stepped up and set boundaries. Instead I let my emotions build up and then went and found someone to have an affair with to feel better about myself.

 

Why I did what I did is the key to recovery...but it is not an excuse. I did what did...I can't blame my brokenness or my broken marriage...it is on me.

 

This is a piece I am working on now. I am the only person responsible for my happiness...and if I am not happy married then I need to not be married or work on what is making me unhappy..having an affair was the cowardly way to deal with my unhappiness. It was a way to feel better without having to set boundaries. I don't want to live like that anymore.

[Devil Inside]

I understand Taylor's point here...the internet and interacting with others on the internet may be a trigger for NS. I don't think anyone would say otherwise. However...in my opinion...I don't see NS coming here to "pick-up" women. I really see him here trying to maintain the recovery he is working hard for.

 

I also come here without my W knowing it. I needed somewhere where I could be completely honest. If I knew she would read what I wrote I would not be able to really say what I want...and then miss out on getting feedback based on the truth...that is the gift of this place.

[taylor]

Yet 1.5 years later, you're still going on about your exOM, feeling like you owe him something, an apology, something..That you two are in NC, happy about it, yet feel slighted as he hasn't contacted you.. The fact he still is in your mind, maybe even in your heart and the way you have been posting to NS, I DO hope you now focus on your husband and have a full recovery.. NS WILL get to that point, but remember, he's well over a year away from where you are.

 

I did feel like I owed him an apology and I did apologize to him 1.5 years ago when we went NC. I do not seek anything from him now..not for 1.5 years.

 

Yes, 1.5 years ago I felt slighted he did not contact me when I lost my job and my dad. That's because we had agreed to be friends..we did not have NC then. But he just disappeared and it left me confused for a long time. Some anger resurfaced out of the blue about this just last week and a good vent on the OW/OM thread helped me to quickly put it into perspective.

 

I understand NS is a full year away.

[NoIDidn't]

Sorry, NID, I was busy answering WWIU's question.

 

I went back to work for one day, doing the work I am trained and skilled at.

 

But by the end of the day I knew that was not the place I should be working at so soon after D-day.

 

The company had 90 men and 10 women working there.

 

I knew that would not be an environment my husband would want me in in light of the affair and the fact that it started at work. I also felt uncomfortable there. It was like deja vu (sp).

 

So I quit at the end of the day although I was making 30 percent more in pay than at the job where my affair took place.

 

I KNEW where I needed to establish boundaries for myself and so that my husband would feel comfortable. Some posters here agreed that was a wise thing to do to set firm boundaries.

 

I now work parttime at a community center filled with children coming for swimming lessons and elderly women coming for water aerobics. I work during the day when there are few, if any, men around.

 

In time, when I believe trust has been completely established (if that is even possible) I will probably venture back into my real line of work which would put me working in a male-dominated environment again.

 

I am not ready for that and either is my marriage. I opt to establish trust first and foremost.

 

Good for you for quitting that job, but you are still missing a larger point.

 

You still work. You are still in an environment that could lead to another affair. I know that you say that there are few men around, but that could change with new hires, or by adding different clientele.

 

My H worked with his EA partner too. I had to let him go to work. Like you, he is in a highly specific field. He could take his knowledge and apply it elsewhere, but he loved/liked his job, so I opted for trusting him. I established some pretty strong boundaries of what I would and wouldn't accept (and dropped them because I wasn't interested in being his warden), but I couldn't and wouldn't tell him to leave his job. He'd had 10 years there by then. She hadn't even had one. She should have left, and she did two years later.

 

Its possible that NS's W is trying to trust him as well.

 

You have led to an interesting point though. You met your OM at work, on a job you were specially trained to do. He met his OW over the internet, where he conducts his business, he took advantage of other offerings on his computer.

 

It could certainly just be that you both found your affairs in environments where you felt confident and competent. Its not so unusual.

[bentnotbroken]

Sorry, NID, I was busy answering WWIU's question.

 

I went back to work for one day, doing the work I am trained and skilled at.

 

But by the end of the day I knew that was not the place I should be working at so soon after D-day.

 

The company had 90 men and 10 women working there.

 

I knew that would not be an environment my husband would want me in in light of the affair and the fact that it started at work. I also felt uncomfortable there. It was like deja vu (sp).

 

So I quit at the end of the day although I was making 30 percent more in pay than at the job where my affair took place.

 

I KNEW where I needed to establish boundaries for myself and so that my husband would feel comfortable. Some posters here agreed that was a wise thing to do to set firm boundaries.

 

I now work parttime at a community center filled with children coming for swimming lessons and elderly women coming for water aerobics. I work during the day when there are few, if any, men around.

 

In time, when I believe trust has been completely established (if that is even possible) I will probably venture back into my real line of work which would put me working in a male-dominated environment again.

 

I am not ready for that and either is my marriage. I opt to establish trust first and foremost.

 

 

Taylor forgive me if I am mistaken, but didn't you say you were let go by your boss because they didn't want any drama. And he got to keep his job. Didn't you say he didn't even call you after you lost your job? I am a bit confused.