I just dont get it

[stuckinoz]

I have no problem with the actions Notsure has taken in the wake of his dday. If he truly loves his wife and wants the marriage he is doing the right things.

 

Does he? NS - DO YOU?

 

Has he said he does? (did I miss a post) I don't recall him saying that he was "back in love" with his wife since D-Day (when his initial plan was to leave)

[MistyK]

I am pretty sure that Notsure insisted that the OW would leave if he did.

He even posted about what it would be like trying to blend their families as the OW had children too.

 

That is my recollection as well.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Good points. So how much exactly did NS choose his wife? It seems he only had one choice left.

 

Well, what he said before he ever decided to come clean to his wife was that he DID feel like if he left his wife that OW would leave her H for him. He wasn't clear if my memory serves that he was actually leaving for her, and from what I gather, had not discussed this with OW, as it happened pretty suddenly.

 

Jennie, if you have had experience with beating a drug addiction, then you should understand I would think. He basically is comparing MM's actions in an affair to the actions of an addict. Almost anything goes when someone is ready for their fix. You've been there and you have said you hold no remorse but are thankful for the life experiences.

 

Everyone is riled up because he's not mourning his OW. I don't believe HIS affair was ever actually about the OW it was about him feeling... something... alive... wanted... whatever. He just didn't realize it at the time because he was feeding the need he had. Certainly in overcoming an addiction you learned what it was that put you there, desire for a drug was greater than the desire not to harm yourself.... why is NS expected to behave differently in the throws of an addiction. Affair dynamics are not healthy to ANYONE involved.

[taylor]

The MW WILLING went into the A and did just the same thing.

 

I don't think she did the exact same thing. She did not break a vow. She did not dishonor a commitment. She did not lie to his wife so that she could spend time with him. She did not lie to his children so that she could spend time with him. She did not leave the marital home to hook up with him.

 

 

But I do agree, IF she hurt him, led him on, lied to him...then she, too, should apologize to him.

 

He said he felt "nothing" for the OW, so apparently she didn't hurt him too much. But if she lied to him or treated him crappy in any other way, yes, as a human being to another human being, she should apologize.

 

I apologized to my OM and I believe he should have apologized to me, but I didn't get it. To me, it was the humane thing to do.

 

If two people willingly try to squeeze thru a doorway at the same time and they step on each other's toes doing it, they apologize to each other. They were both willing participants in their attempt to get thru the door first. But they should both apologize to each other for being selfish and stepping on each other's toes. Because it's the humane thing to do.

[NOTSURE7]

I said it was the tone of your remarks - lots of lol's and smiley faces. It wasn't a direct quote, obviously. I know you were trying to help jennie, but your comments illustrate a real insentivity, which is apparently ok with everyone since you are trying to get your M back on track.

 

It's obvious to everyone that you treated your W badly, that goes without saying. But many people here don't care if MM treat OW like crap. Given that this is infidelity, I get that. But I just thought you might want to take a look at the whole picture in reforming yourself, not the part that's politically correct. I never indicated that I think that ought to detract from what your real focus should be - your M. But I do think your insensitivity to how you may have hurt the OW (whether or not the BS's feel she deserved it) explains why you don't get how other WS's have lingering feelings.

 

Obviously you had to give up one or the other. She evidently wanted to stay in her M, and I think you made a good choice-- and I do NOT think that choice was an act of malice against the OW, you were doing the right thing. It is in fact, far more kind than continuing to string her along. That is all. At any rate, I am growing extremely weary of people twisting my words into sentiments I never said. Best of luck with your reconciliation.

 

in the future please dont use " " marks if your talking about what you perceived as my tone, you clearly stated that i said it and used quaotation marks to attribute that i said someone was stupid when i never said that and never would ...

[NOTSURE7]

You're welcome NS.

 

How's MC going? And IC?

 

its going well thanks for asking..

[whichwayisup]

I don't think she did the exact same thing. She did not break a vow. She did not dishonor a commitment. She did not lie to his wife so that she could spend time with him. She did not lie to his children so that she could spend time with him. She did not leave the marital home to hook up with him.

 

Huh? She DID! The MW LIED TO HER HUSBAND, she broke her vows, she dishonoured a committment. She did what HE did, lie and betray. Anyway, what does it matter now? Honestly? The A is over and NS is over it, enough to only want to focus on healing and reconnecting with his wife again, working on the marriage. He's made his choice and again, I really don't understand what it matters anymore about the A dynamtic and the exMW.

[NOTSURE7]

Good points. So how much exactly did NS choose his wife? It seems he only had one choice left.

 

just to clarify for whatever its worth

 

my ow twice ended the A saying she needed to work on her M,but she never went real nc and i twice dragged her back in with my selfish words..

 

then as most know it all became too much for me and i needed to make decisions in my life,there were many factors at play..

 

so i chose to confess to my W and after long talk i decided to commit myself to my w and my marriage which included ic and mc and to work with my w fall in love with all over again and create a strong m going forward..

 

so i chose to go full nc with my ow...and i mean full nc...

 

the little most of you dont know is that the ow in her last communication before i was able to fully block all of her communications to me she said she was hurt by the fact i was ending it,which struck me as odd since she twice had no problem ending it on me..

 

she also said she had decided to seperate from her H..i ignored that email and i have not had any contact with her..

 

so jennie, as you can see i had many choices and i have made a clear decision on what i want in my life and i have taken responsibility and tackled my m head on....

 

that isisnt a fog at all, thats the way it needs to be done if you want to have an honest shot at true love with my w and a real connection within your m..

[taylor]

It's hard to have empathy for a person who has no feelings. NS said he felt "nothing" for the OW.

 

Everyone is ignoring the possibility that NS was hurt by OW's decision to end the A.

 

No one is ignoring anything. He never brought it up. The most he has said is that he feels "nothing" for the OW. Nothing is nothing. How can you assume anything from nothing.

 

How many men do you know that CAN turn off their feelings when they've been hurt?

 

He never said he was hurt or even bothered by the end of the affair. And I don't ever recall him saying he had hurt feelings he had to turn off. I only recall him saying he was devoid of feelings.

 

While everyone doesn't have that ability, it IS a type of coping mechanism.

 

He didn't even suggest he was "coping" with any hurt feelings. In fact, I don't recall him ever saying he was trying to "cope" at all with the loss of the OW or the affair.

 

Also, as someone stated above, he's in a crisis right now, following DDay. The quickest way to forget about any pain is to induce a greater pain.

 

The only crisis he talks about is the one with his wife...how he upset the apple cart by confessing...and how to get the status quo back.

 

I do not see him dealing with any crisis regarding the loss of the affair or the OW.

 

If a man can compartmenalize enough to carry on an affair while still playing the role of adoring H, then why is it so difficult to believe that he can't/shouldn't be able to just disconnect and sever all emotional connections to his OW.

 

It isn't difficult at all. It's just not something many people can do. The coping and break-up forums attest to that. NS just has this amazing ability to do something that most people wish they could do, but can't.

 

What's difficult to believe is that he doesn't "get" that some people can't turn emotions off like he can, but need time to work thru them.

[NOTSURE7]

just to clarify for whatever its worth

 

my ow twice ended the A saying she needed to work on her M,but she never went real nc and i twice dragged her back in with my selfish words..

 

then as most know it all became too much for me and i needed to make decisions in my life,there were many factors at play..

 

so i chose to confess to my W and after long talk i decided to commit myself to my w and my marriage which included ic and mc and to work with my w fall in love with all over again and create a strong m going forward..

 

so i chose to go full nc with my ow...and i mean full nc...

 

the little most of you dont know is that the ow in her last communication before i was able to fully block all of her communications to me she said she was hurt by the fact i was ending it,which struck me as odd since she twice had no problem ending it on me..

 

she also said she had decided to seperate from her H..i ignored that email and i have not had any contact with her..

 

, as you can see i had many choices and i have made a clear decision on what i want in my life and i have taken responsibility and tackled my m head on....

 

that isisnt a fog at all, thats the way it needs to be done if you want to have an honest shot at true love with my w and a real connection within your m..

[confusedinkansas]

I do not understand the word FOG....Why does everyone keep tossing it around?

 

Is it not true than when you're in an affair, you know damn well what you're doing. When you leave an affair - most of us - do it by making a concious decision. Where does this FOG come in?

 

I know during my affair - I knew what I was doing. I may have misplaced my love for my husband due to many factors - a lot out of my control - but I was never walking the streets bug-eyed, in a trance or "in a fog".....

As for the X-MM - I knew what he was. I knew where we stood. Yep, the break-up was hurtful.....Sorry - ramblin'....I just don't understand the crutch in the word FOG!!!

[NOTSURE7]

I do not understand the word FOG....Why does everyone keep tossing it around?

 

Is it not true than when you're in an affair, you know damn well what you're doing. When you leave an affair - most of us - do it by making a concious decision. Where does this FOG come in?

 

I know during my affair - I knew what I was doing. I may have misplaced my love for my husband due to many factors - a lot out of my control - but I was never walking the streets bug-eyed, in a trance or "in a fog".....

As for the X-MM - I knew what he was. I knew where we stood. Yep, the break-up was hurtful.....Sorry - ramblin'....I just don't understand the crutch in the word FOG!!!

 

i think most use fog as an excuse or a justification for our selfish,needy self serving actions when they are in the A..i think fog really is another word for im doing what i want and i know what i am doing but im going to justify it by saying i was in a fog...

 

that being said i beleive when you are caught up in the thrill of it all and eventhough you do know what you are doing you do have a sense of beleif that this ap is the long lost love or soulmate who miraculosly appeared in your life and is giving you everything you need and more,you wonder wow where have they been, but when you release yourself from the throws of the A and begin to reflect you see that they were just fulfilling your needs and that because you were so selfish and needy they just seemed to be the person that was your soulmate.

 

now lots on here have another use for the word fog in dday terms and they like to tell me i am in a fog because i am not adhering to the strict guidelines set on how and what i should be saying and doing post dday..

 

if i am not doing what they did or feeling what they felt or even better apologizing to the ow(ridiculous) then of course what else could it be but (DRUMROLL PLEASE)...you guessed it A FOG....

[taylor]

I don't think she did the exact same thing. She did not break a vow. She did not dishonor a commitment. She did not lie to his wife so that she could spend time with him. She did not lie to his children so that she could spend time with him. She did not leave the marital home to hook up with him.

 

Ok, forgot his OW was married. I was trying to speak in general terms about OWs.

 

In his case, with a MARRIED WOMAN, yes, they were both doing the same thing to their respective spouses and each should apologize to their individual spouses.

 

But INSIDE the affair relationship, he lied to her, led her on, kept her on the hook and drug her back into the affair when she was trying to get out of it. Who knows what else he did to keep the affair going.

 

But bottom line, if he hurt her as well as his wife, he should apologize...I don't care what she was doing outside the affair relationship itself. He should take responsibility for how he acted inside the affair and he should apologize for hurting her.

 

And the MARRIED WOMAN should do the same thing if she treated him like crap inside the affair relationship, despite whatever he was doing outside the relationship. If she hurt him, she should apologize.

 

People hurt other people and should apologize for it. They shouldn't withhold an apology for something they did to another just because that other person did something wrong to a third person.

 

If you steal from someone, you can't say, "I'm not apologizing to John for

lying and stealing from him because I know for a fact he cheated on his wife." You are still responsible for what you did to someone, regardless of what that person did to another.

[jennie-jennie]

NS: "so jennie, as you can see i had many choices and i have made a clear decision on what i want in my life and i have taken responsibility and tackled my m head on....

 

that isisnt a fog at all, thats the way it needs to be done if you want to have an honest shot at true love with my w and a real connection within your m.."

 

Fair enough. I wish you well.

 

Phoenix: "If he truly felt real emotions for the OW in the context of the affair and He believes that those emotions don't stand up to the light of dday.... fine.

But if he was just a MM who was saying and doing anything he needed to to keep the affair alive then he was playing massive head games with the OW and with a bunch of nameless faceless LS posters who tried to help him when he arrived here and putting his marriage on the line for some game he was playing to boot."

 

I am interested in how you look at what Phoenix said above. The answer you would give would really define you as whether you were a cake-eater or not.

[whichwayisup]

But INSIDE the affair relationship, he lied to her, led her on, kept her on the hook and drug her back into the affair when she was trying to get out of it. Who knows what else he did to keep the affair going.

 

As did she. They both led eachother on, whatever, whatever. Why does it matter now? The A is over.

 

I was trying to speak in general terms about OWs.

 

But that isn't the issue at hand, we're not talking about other OW's, we're talking about the exMW.

[whichwayisup]

JJ, if you want to quote people, instead of bolding it and putting it in quotes, just click on "quote" or the "+" sign, it'll do it for you..Easier that way, instead of copying and pasting..

[NOTSURE7]

Ok, forgot his OW was married. I was trying to speak in general terms about OWs.

 

In his case, with a MARRIED WOMAN, yes, they were both doing the same thing to their respective spouses and each should apologize to their individual spouses.

 

But INSIDE the affair relationship, he lied to her, led her on, kept her on the hook and drug her back into the affair when she was trying to get out of it. Who knows what else he did to keep the affair going.

 

But bottom line, if he hurt her as well as his wife, he should apologize...I don't care what she was doing outside the affair relationship itself. He should take responsibility for how he acted inside the affair and he should apologize for hurting her.

 

And the MARRIED WOMAN should do the same thing if she treated him like crap inside the affair relationship, despite whatever he was doing outside the relationship. If she hurt him, she should apologize.

 

People hurt other people and should apologize for it. They shouldn't withhold an apology for something they did to another just because that other person did something wrong to a third person.

 

If you steal from someone, you can't say, "I'm not apologizing to John for

lying and stealing from him because I know for a fact he cheated on his wife." You are still responsible for what you did to someone, regardless of what that person did to another.

 

you really need to give it up with this i should apologize to the ow,

 

its a ridiculous thing to expect, she is a mw,shes a big girl and i am sure she has moved on with her life as i have.

 

we had an A, it served her purpose as well as mine, now its over, thats the end of it taylor, im not going to disrepect my w any further by apologizing to her and keeping her alive in my marriage and in my head..its over and done with,clean break, its the only way an affair should end if you truly want to have a real chance at your marriage..

 

i accept responsibility for what i did to her,to my w,to my m but now its time to focus on my wife and my marriage and myself and i am tackling everything head on.

 

im not going to waste valuable time pining over or wondering why the ap hasnt called me or asked about me or why they did or didnt do this or that.. etc etc,

 

Its over

[taylor]

just to clarify for whatever its worth

 

my ow twice ended the A saying she needed to work on her M,but she never went real nc and i twice dragged her back in with my selfish words..

 

then as most know it all became too much for me and i needed to make decisions in my life,there were many factors at play..

 

so i chose to confess to my W and after long talk i decided to commit myself to my w and my marriage

 

Your OW wanted to end the affair but you did not respect her wishes and maintain NC.

 

Unlike you, your OW does not possess those amazing powers to just turn emotions off like a faucet. She had residual feelings for you. Hence, she broke NC. Had she been devoid of feelings, she probably could have maintained NC. Her resolve would have been stronger and she wouldn't have let you "drag" her back into the affair.

 

It sounds like you went to Plan B after your OW rejected you twice and you saw the writing on the wall that the relationship really was not meant to be.

 

So now you are working on Plan B...recommiting to your wife and trying to fall back in love with her. Good luck.

 

[And I mean full nc...]

 

This should not be hard for you to do since you feel "nothing" for the OW.

 

 

the little most of you dont know is that the ow in her last communication before i was able to fully block all of her communications to me she said she was hurt by the fact i was ending it,which struck me as odd since she twice had no problem ending it on me..

 

Nothing odd about that at all. People make tough choices, NS. Sometimes they put their feelings aside to do the RIGHT thing. She knew what the right thing to do was....let you go and focus on her marriage. It took you a little longer to figure that out.

 

 

 

You both seem to be on the right track now.

[NOTSURE7]

NS: "so jennie, as you can see i had many choices and i have made a clear decision on what i want in my life and i have taken responsibility and tackled my m head on....

 

that isisnt a fog at all, thats the way it needs to be done if you want to have an honest shot at true love with my w and a real connection within your m.."

 

Fair enough. I wish you well.

 

Phoenix: "If he truly felt real emotions for the OW in the context of the affair and He believes that those emotions don't stand up to the light of dday.... fine.

But if he was just a MM who was saying and doing anything he needed to to keep the affair alive then he was playing massive head games with the OW and with a bunch of nameless faceless LS posters who tried to help him when he arrived here and putting his marriage on the line for some game he was playing to boot."

 

I am interested in how you look at what Phoenix said above. The answer you would give would really define you as whether you were a cake-eater or not.

 

listen, during the A of course i felt emotions,my early posts reflect that..but these emotions do not stand up to the light of day, they were affair emotions and thats all..

 

i never promised my ow anything,not one thing from day 1, so now the A is over and i am falling in love with my wife all over again and realizing that it was my w i always wanted but i was too selfish and needy and self serving to ever give her a chance and i always assumed she couldnt satisfy my every need, now i am realizing she can, what is so wrong with that?

 

i just dont get why some people cant understand it and have to call it a fog or dday haze......

[whichwayisup]

Your OW wanted to end the affair but you did not respect her wishes and maintain NC.

 

No, the OW was the one who kept breaking NC after she ended it, twice..

 

Anyway, great post NS. That needed to be said.

[NOTSURE7]

Your OW wanted to end the affair but you did not respect her wishes and maintain NC.

 

Unlike you, your OW does not possess those amazing powers to just turn emotions off like a faucet. She had residual feelings for you. Hence, she broke NC. Had she been devoid of feelings, she probably could have maintained NC. Her resolve would have been stronger and she wouldn't have let you "drag" her back into the affair.

 

It sounds like you went to Plan B after your OW rejected you twice and you saw the writing on the wall that the relationship really was not meant to be.

 

So now you are working on Plan B...recommiting to your wife and trying to fall back in love with her. Good luck.

 

[And I mean full nc...]

 

This should not be hard for you to do since you feel "nothing" for the OW.

 

 

 

 

Nothing odd about that at all. People make tough choices, NS. Sometimes they put their feelings aside to do the RIGHT thing. She knew what the right thing to do was....let you go and focus on her marriage. It took you a little longer to figure that out.

 

 

 

You both seem to be on the right track now.

 

it wasnt plan B,there was no writing on the wall,i had alot of factors that played into my confessing to my w and none had to do with a feeling i was losing my ow, in fact my ow was strong and all in when i ended it..

[taylor]

just to clarify for whatever its worth

 

my ow twice ended the A saying she needed to work on her M,but she never went real nc and i twice dragged her back in with my selfish words..

 

This to me sounds like she did want the affair to end.

 

Why would he have to "drag" her back if she really wanted back in the affair.

 

I think she wanted OUT but residual emotions weakened her resolve.

 

I think he KNEW she wanted out, but he wasn't ready yet (he admitted that). He wanted the affair to continue...more than she did.

 

And I think he gave it up when he realized her heart really wasn't into it any longer.

 

After all, he had to drag her back.

[NOTSURE7]

This to me sounds like she did want the affair to end.

 

Why would he have to "drag" her back if she really wanted back in the affair.

 

I think she wanted OUT but residual emotions weakened her resolve.

 

I think he KNEW she wanted out, but he wasn't ready yet (he admitted that). He wanted the affair to continue...more than she did.

 

And I think he gave it up when he realized her heart really wasn't into it any longer.

 

After all, he had to drag her back.

 

you pretty much come up with your own theories and no matter what i write you go with them...

 

she wanted to work on her marriage but she never stopped contacting me so yes i dragged her back in because i still wanted the A at that time..

 

then i decided i wanted the A to end and i took the steps to end the A for real and for good...she still wanted the a and even sent me an email letting me know she left her H...

 

and now its over..and i have moved on, you on the other hand are still posting about your mm 1 year later when you have supposedly dedicated yourself to your m and h...personally i think thats wrong..

[jennie-jennie]

JJ, if you want to quote people, instead of bolding it and putting it in quotes, just click on "quote" or the "+" sign, it'll do it for you..Easier that way, instead of copying and pasting..

 

But can you put two quotes in one post that way?

[whichwayisup]

But can you put two quotes in one post that way?

 

Yup, but use the "+" option, it'll give you as many quotes as you want, then hit reply when you're ready. Then if you want, you can and cut parts out that you don't need (let's say if it's a long post and you only want a snippit of it, just delete the part you don't want)..