I just dont get it

[jennie-jennie]

jwi: "Oh boy Jennie...you are on the express train to heartbreak. First class."

 

I know I might, but I see no reason taking it out ahead of time. As long as I am decided to stay with him, I might as well enjoy the ride.

 

You know, once upon a time I did drugs. Now that is stupid. It's gone 23 years since then. I would never do it again. But you know what, I had fun!

 

You have to allow yourself to live every day of your life, wherever you are at. So MM might never leave his wife? Well, you know what, I don't regret a single day. I have had the time, the sex and the orgasms of my life!

[bentnotbroken]

You're right. That's up to the individual BS though, don't you think?

 

 

Actually according to counselor's and some data that I read it isn't up to the BS. It is up to them to decide to wait...but the reason why they wait is all on the WS. Honestly Misty, I am not sure where you are coming from. NS admitted his actions and took responsibility for stringing the OW along and betraying his wife. The OW is responsible for her decision to enter an affair...periond. How ever it ends, she should be prepared for it since it isn't the primary relationship. IF it were she would have left her H.

 

NS has made a decision to stay in his marriage. And anything that has to be done to help that is what he needs to do. NC without stringing OW and wife along is the most human thing he could do for both of them. The areas of gray are only created by doing the wrong thing. He has decided to do the right thing for what ever reason. He says he loves his wife, he says he and she are working on their marriage, what more should he do?

 

There have been many OW on here being strung along and lied to only to come back and post about MM moving in, moving home again, moving back in with them and breaking down. They are miserable because MM can't make up his mind. NS did and he is being attacked for it. Would a OW be attacked if she dropped MM without even giving him one last word? I seriously doubt it.

[whichwayisup]

NS owes the exMW NOTHING. She isn't part of the equation anymore so for him to continually have to defend himself as to why he isn't feeling anything anymore for the exMW is crazy. He's CHOSEN his wife. CHOSEN to let go of the A, the exMW and all that went with it. He's CHOSEN not to let himself think or anything about the A and only focus on doing what's required to fix his marriage and reconnect with his wife. If the A is thought about or talked about it should be because his wife needs to know answers..Not for him to feel remorseful or feel bad IF he led exMW on. He didn't. She was a WILLING participant in the affair, so she is NOT victim. and neither is he. Only victims in this is NS's wife and exMW's husband.

 

NS has to do full on NC if he wants his marriage to heal. He owes his WIFE, not ex affair partner.

[confusedinkansas]

confusedinkansas: "So what's another reason to stay in a marriage when you are in the center of an affair.....other than duty & obligation?

NS Isn't that why you stayed in YOUR marriage?"

 

what is to ROFL about? her comment made no sense. .

 

I said - "WHEN YOU ARE IN THE CENTER OF AN AFFAIR" - The heat of the moment........What other reason do you have to stay in a marriage?

 

Out of obligation - duty to your family...along with financial, kids...yadda yadda yadda

 

I thought that was the reason NS was staying with his wife (while he was in the affair) as opposed to jumping ship & being with the other woman? He married his wife, therefore he was obligated to stay with her & his children.

 

& Yes Dex...It was a point that does make sense.

You are right though,- Anyone SHOULD stay in a marriage because of LOVE & devotion to their partner. But it's not always that way. (& sometimes even if you take an affair out of the equasion)

[taylor]

ok i am sure i will take heat for this one but i keep reading these posts over and over again where the ws just cant get over the op, they claim there love for their bs and how much they are doing,saying and realizing about their bs and their marriage and how loving and caring etc etc their bs is and how they made such a mistake but then you see post after post of ws who just cant get over the op and sometimes years later are still trying to get past them and are still trying to understand why the op did this or that...

 

so most of you know my story and i am a wh who just confessed all to my w 6 weeks ago and i am working on my m.. who knows maybe i am unique but i just dont get all the pining over the op and the wondering and the therapy needed to get over this op..

 

The op was in the a for there own reasons too, the A happened and now its over, you both served your purposes and the good times are through, time to move on and get over it..

 

again i am sure i will hear it for this one but i just dont get all the pining,the A is over and most likely the op could care less and wants to move on with there life, the A was about good times they dont want to deal with the aftermath or all the crap,so if you really want to be true to your bs then its time to move on..dont ya think?

 

i guess my question is if you sit here and say how sorry you are and that you realize your bs is so caring and loving and that you can beleive you did this to them and you want your m to work, dosent it seem ridiculous to be expending time and energy on the op still when you should be focusing on only your bs?

 

I think what you "don't get" is how other people don't have the ability, like you do, to turn feelings off overnight like a faucet. Just because you were able to do this doesn't mean everyone can.

 

There are many posters on your other threads who are amazed at your ability to, overnight, go from "soulmate" to "indifference" with regard to another human being. How wonderful it would be if we all possessed that ability you have to totally obliterate emotion at will.

 

If we all possessed that ability no one would ever carry any pain or hurt or guilt inside of them as a result of their relationships with other people.

 

Mothers wouldn't feel guilty for abandoning or aborting children years ago.

 

Fathers wouldn't feel guilty for not spending time with their children years ago.

 

Children wouldn't hurt because parents abandoned them years ago.

 

No one would feel hurt or anger or resentment because someone lied to them, stole from them or beat them.

 

And no one would feel guilty for years for lying, stealing from, injuring, or cheating on another person.

 

No one would feel grief for years when they lost a loved one to death or divorce.

 

There would be no need for "coping" forums or "break-up" forums.

 

It would eliminate the need for so many to turn to their place of worship for comfort and guidance.

 

 

How wonderful it would be if everyone possessed this amazing ability you have to shut emotions off (and turn other emotions on) overnight.

 

The thing is MOST people don't have this ability to do what you are able to do...at least not OVERNIGHT. For MOST, it takes time.

 

You can't validate people's feelings because you can't accept the fact that other people are not like you...that other people can't shut emotions off overnight.

 

More than once, you have been irritated because people felt like you should have had some residual feelings for their affair partner. That's because you "don't get" that many people believe it takes time for feelings to subside. It's been their experience in life that it also takes time for new feelings to replace the old.

 

But, because you have this amazing ability to turn the feelings on and off at will, you "don't get" it.

 

People often come to this forum to seek validation for their feelings, not always to get problems solved. There is a difference. Do you get that?

 

And sometimes feelings need to be worked thru and resolved before solutions can be implemented or have a chance of being effective. Do you get that?

 

Telling people they shouldn't be feeling what they are feeling serves no purpose. Just because you can shut the feelings off doesn't mean someone else is wrong for not being able to. Just because you did it overnight, doesn't mean it's wrong if someone else can't. and needs time to work it out.

 

Feelings are not right or wrong. They just are. And sometimes acknowledging those feelings is the best way to help another person. It's often the first step to resolution. But, you "don't get" it.

 

I really wonder what you would tell a mother who was still grieving over the loss of a child 10 years later...if she came to you and said I want to be happy again...I want to live a full life again.

 

Would you tell her, "Well, if you want to be happy again, stop grieving. I "don't get" why you are grieving if your goal is to have a full, happy life."

 

This is what you sound like here.

 

And it makes me wonder if you truly have it in you to validate/acknowledge your wife's feelings in the aftermath of your affair. How will you feel in 6 months or a year from now when she is still carrying residual feelings because of your affair?

[confusedinkansas]

Nothing to add......Just want to say - EXCELLENT Post Taylor!!

[jasminetea]

About staying in a marriage out of love rather than duty:

 

Nobody stays in love with their partner at all times. Any relationship will ebb and flow. I think in a marriage this state is magnified as the couple have to be together so often and have to share so much.

 

The very nature of an affair means bills, upset children, sick pets and all the other unromantic bits and bobs won't be a joint responsibility and thus the couple are able to focus solely on each other and themselves with little interference. They will also have space in their togetherness, whether that be forced or not, which will allow the heart to grow fonder still. There will be little or no ebb in an affair and if there is, it will more likely be due to external forces and thus the affair partners will not have to address an issue that is purely between themselves. The flow can continue unabated.

 

However, because of the aforementioned tat, in a marriage there is more likely to be ebbs and in these times its easy to feel that you are no longer in love with your husband or wife. But its not as black and white as that, nothing stays static and if one is prepared to wait the ebbs out and work through them, the flows come back stronger and stronger each time.

[MistyK]

NS admitted his actions and took responsibility for stringing the OW along and betraying his wife.

 

No, he repeatedly laughs about it. It's the tone of the remarks he made to Jennie - like "you must be so stupid to believe that, lol" That's where I have a problem with this.

 

The OW is responsible for her decision to enter an affair...periond. How ever it ends, she should be prepared for it since it isn't the primary relationship. IF it were she would have left her H.

 

NS has made a decision to stay in his marriage. And anything that has to be done to help that is what he needs to do. NC without stringing OW and wife along is the most human thing he could do for both of them. The areas of gray are only created by doing the wrong thing. He has decided to do the right thing for what ever reason. He says he loves his wife, he says he and she are working on their marriage, what more should he do?

 

I totally agree. I don't know why everyone keeps insisting on twisting my words. I think it's great that he made a decision. Any decision is better than no decision. And I think it's great that he's dedicated to his W. And no, I don't think he owes OW anything. BUT, to laugh about stringing OW along, that's messed up. And it totally explains why he doesn't "get it" that other people have residual feelings.

[jennie-jennie]

About staying in a marriage out of love rather than duty:

 

Nobody stays in love with their partner at all times. Any relationship will ebb and flow. I think in a marriage this state is magnified as the couple have to be together so often and have to share so much.

 

The very nature of an affair means bills, upset children, sick pets and all the other unromantic bits and bobs won't be a joint responsibility and thus the couple are able to focus solely on each other and themselves with little interference. They will also have space in their togetherness, whether that be forced or not, which will allow the heart to grow fonder still. There will be little or no ebb in an affair and if there is, it will more likely be due to external forces and thus the affair partners will not have to address an issue that is purely between themselves. The flow can continue unabated.

 

However, because of the aforementioned tat, in a marriage there is more likely to be ebbs and in these times its easy to feel that you are no longer in love with your husband or wife. But its not as black and white as that, nothing stays static and if one is prepared to wait the ebbs out and work through them, the flows come back stronger and stronger each time.

 

Jasminetea, this is not my experience. I have always stayed in love with my significant others throughout the entire relationship. I was in love with my ex for 25 years although we all suffered from his addictive behaviours and mental instability. It was no easy life, but I never fell out of love with him.

[NoIDidn't]

Back to the OP: I don't get it either NS, but people do it, IMO, because they haven't addressed the issues that made them stray to begin with.

 

I think the people that are here obsessing over their APs do so, because they still want both without the complications that d-day or confessing brought them.

 

I think some people are just romantics and don't have a realistic view of love and relationships (and the consequences of such, good and bad), and just tend to continue romanticizing a situation that wasn't healthy for any of the people in the triangle.

 

I have no problem with a person that is able to turn off their emotions like a "faucet". Its a required trait if you wish to make decisions without the cloud of emotions - even in a highly emotionally charged situation.

 

My H had an EA several years ago. Once it was discovered by me and exposed, he turned off the emotions towards her too. She wasn't his concern anymore. He realized that she never was his concern. He wanted out of our marriage for his reasons that had nothing to do with her. It took me a while to believe that, but it became clear as we spoke more about our marriage, not about his EA.

 

And I think that is what you are saying: when are those that are pining over their AP going to actually take a good look at their MARRIAGE and stop romanticizing their AFFAIR? They might not want to look at their marriage, though. Maybe its been a source of hurt and contention for so long, but they are afraid to leave, so they stay and pine for someone else. I just don't think about how this pining is basically a self-fulfilling prophecy about the doom of their marriage (how it contributes to it).

 

I think you ask a good question.

[NOTSURE7]

You know what, NS, I might be fooled, but in that case my MM has fooled himself as well, because he is not lying to me. I give you that when/if Dday comes, his priorities might change, he might look at things differently, just like you do, but he is telling me what he believes/experiences today. Sure, it might be "affair fog" but you know what, it is not easy to tell what you are seeing in a fog, that does not mean you are lying about what you see.

 

A bit humility please, you ARE only 6 weeks out.

 

He may have feelings for you within the affair but they are limited to the affair, thats all i am saying here..When and if dday comes you will see that all of the feelings and the rush of excitement and the break from his life you provided him were just his way of fulfilling all of his needs and having his cake and eating it too..

[bentnotbroken]

No, he repeatedly laughs about it. It's the tone of the remarks he made to Jennie - like "you must be so stupid to believe that, lol" That's where I have a problem with this.

 

 

 

I totally agree. I don't know why everyone keeps insisting on twisting my words. I think it's great that he made a decision. Any decision is better than no decision. And I think it's great that he's dedicated to his W. And no, I don't think he owes OW anything. BUT, to laugh about stringing OW along, that's messed up. And it totally explains why he doesn't "get it" that other people have residual feelings.

 

 

But don't you think that is exactly what he was doing to his wife? He is in counseling to help him understand the need to consider others feelings and the impact his actions will have on those in his life. If he didn't do that with his own wife(and it keeps being posted on here that he "switched to quickly")why is it not understandable that he would do the same thing with the ow. His actions are pretty close to the same. He is a work in progress...no? If he were 100% there in understanding his actions(and words) have an impact he wouldn't be here. JMO.

[NOTSURE7]

jwi: "Oh boy Jennie...you are on the express train to heartbreak. First class."

 

I know I might, but I see no reason taking it out ahead of time. As long as I am decided to stay with him, I might as well enjoy the ride.

 

You know, once upon a time I did drugs. Now that is stupid. It's gone 23 years since then. I would never do it again. But you know what, I had fun!

 

You have to allow yourself to live every day of your life, wherever you are at. So MM might never leave his wife? Well, you know what, I don't regret a single day. I have had the time, the sex and the orgasms of my life!

 

you are a mm who wants an ow and an affairs dream come true...but with all your fun and orgasms and the fact that you yourself stated you wanted a commitment and for him not to be a mm, you will everntually find heartache and sadness...

 

so the question is, is the rush and the excitement and the time and the sex and the orgasms all really worth it?

 

i can tell you that all the things i have done and all of my selfishness and self serving and the utter disregard i had for my w were definetely not worth my heartache and my sadness...

 

so carpe diem all you want but i can tell you that the end game with the mm will most likely not be worth all your sex and orgasms...

[Dexter Morgan]

just out of curiosity, NS, if your wife said she is having a hard time getting over what you did with another woman....what would you say to her if she said that she needs to go out and have another man make her squeal and give her orgasms in an attempt to help her cope?

 

dont get me wrong, this isn't a serious suggestion that she do this and I in NO WAY would respect someone even if they have been cheated on that thought this way.

 

but some people do believe that getting even and evening the playing field is what they need to move on. So what would you say if she says she wants to go out with the girls next weekend so she can hunt down a man and take him back to a hotel?

[jennie-jennie]

you are a mm who wants an ow and an affairs dream come true...but with all your fun and orgasms and the fact that you yourself stated you wanted a commitment and for him not to be a mm, you will everntually find heartache and sadness...

 

so the question is, is the rush and the excitement and the time and the sex and the orgasms all really worth it?

 

i can tell you that all the things i have done and all of my selfishness and self serving and the utter disregard i had for my w were definetely not worth my heartache and my sadness...

 

so carpe diem all you want but i can tell you that the end game with the mm will most likely not be worth all your sex and orgasms...

 

NS, I think we look at life differently. If you knew the price I had to pay for those happy days of drug abuse, you would understand I know something about paying the price for the good times. I recently spent 1 1/2 years in bed treating a disease I caught during my drug addiction period way back when. It was awful. But during that treatment I made new friends and new experiences I never would have made had I not had to "pay the price". I would not be without any of my life experiences. They have made me who I am today.

 

Did I use the term "exclusive relationship" in an inappropriate way? I did not mean commitment. I meant exclusive in contrast to open. A relationship where you only have one lover. To me that does not mean commitment that means every day making the choice to stay with your lover and only make love to them because you realize you still are in love with them.

 

And you may have feelings for your wife within Dday haze. The question which is not answered yet is if you do in the long run.

[jennie-jennie]

"so the question is, is the rush and the excitement and the time and the sex and the orgasms all really worth it?"

 

Are you regretting your affair?

[NOTSURE7]

NS owes the exMW NOTHING. She isn't part of the equation anymore so for him to continually have to defend himself as to why he isn't feeling anything anymore for the exMW is crazy. He's CHOSEN his wife. CHOSEN to let go of the A, the exMW and all that went with it. He's CHOSEN not to let himself think or anything about the A and only focus on doing what's required to fix his marriage and reconnect with his wife. If the A is thought about or talked about it should be because his wife needs to know answers..Not for him to feel remorseful or feel bad IF he led exMW on. He didn't. She was a WILLING participant in the affair, so she is NOT victim. and neither is he. Only victims in this is NS's wife and exMW's husband.

 

NS has to do full on NC if he wants his marriage to heal. He owes his WIFE, not ex affair partner.

 

well said, thank you

[angie2443]

Mothers wouldn't feel guilty for abandoning or aborting children years ago.

 

Fathers wouldn't feel guilty for not spending time with their children years ago.

 

Children wouldn't hurt because parents abandoned them years ago.

 

I really wonder what you would tell a mother who was still grieving over the loss of a child 10 years later...if she came to you and said I want to be happy again...I want to live a full life again.

 

Would you tell her, "Well, if you want to be happy again, stop grieving. I "don't get" why you are grieving if your goal is to have a full, happy life."

 

 

I understand what you are saying in this post. I'm just interested in the parent/child references. I feel that OP and OW are adults that knew what they were getting into. I'm not saying that either deserved to be thrown under a bus, but that they knew it was a possibility. This is different from a parent/child relationship in which one person really is unaware. I was wondering if there was something in this thread that made OP's relationship with OW seem like a parent/child relationship. Otherwise, I have seen healthy people who were able to turn their feelings off for someone pretty quickly. I'm not saying it's right. I'm just saying that I've observed this before. I don't really know if OP is one of those people or not.

[NOTSURE7]

"so the question is, is the rush and the excitement and the time and the sex and the orgasms all really worth it?"

 

Are you regretting your affair?

 

yes i completely regret the affair...

[NOTSURE7]

just out of curiosity, NS, if your wife said she is having a hard time getting over what you did with another woman....what would you say to her if she said that she needs to go out and have another man make her squeal and give her orgasms in an attempt to help her cope?

 

dont get me wrong, this isn't a serious suggestion that she do this and I in NO WAY would respect someone even if they have been cheated on that thought this way.

 

but some people do believe that getting even and evening the playing field is what they need to move on. So what would you say if she says she wants to go out with the girls next weekend so she can hunt down a man and take him back to a hotel?

 

we have spoken about this issue because i have asked her if she has those feelings and i although i would genuinely understand if she did because she deserves to be loved and cherished and i didnt provide that..

 

that being said, she said she has morals and would never do that to me, she said if that were the case she would leave me and tell me why she was leaving me, i told her i respected that and she said but i love you and i want to be with you, so i dont beleive that will be an issue here...

 

in answer to the question of what would i say, i would probably say i understand what your feeling and i understand why your wanting to do this. but i would implore her to think of the reprecussions and to think how stooping to my level would not solve or change anything, i would remind her of how selfish and self serving i was and remind her of the devastation and the pain i have caused her..i would also remind her of how we have made progress in these past 6 weeks and how detrimental it would be to us..

 

then i would let her make up her own mind...

[NOTSURE7]

NS, I think we look at life differently. If you knew the price I had to pay for those happy days of drug abuse, you would understand I know something about paying the price for the good times. I recently spent 1 1/2 years in bed treating a disease I caught during my drug addiction period way back when. It was awful. But during that treatment I made new friends and new experiences I never would have made had I not had to "pay the price". I would not be without any of my life experiences. They have made me who I am today.

 

Did I use the term "exclusive relationship" in an inappropriate way? I did not mean commitment. I meant exclusive in contrast to open. A relationship where you only have one lover. To me that does not mean commitment that means every day making the choice to stay with your lover and only make love to them because you realize you still are in love with them.

 

And you may have feelings for your wife within Dday haze. The question which is not answered yet is if you do in the long run.

 

everyone loves the haze and the fog and the daze, you all have so many different hazes and fogs for me that even i dont know which one you think i am in....lol

 

apparently if i see things clearly but it dosent fit the exact mold of what i am "supposed" to be thinking or saying based on everyones experience then wow i must be in a daze...

[NOTSURE7]

No, he repeatedly laughs about it. It's the tone of the remarks he made to Jennie - like "you must be so stupid to believe that, lol" That's where I have a problem with this.

 

 

 

I totally agree. I don't know why everyone keeps insisting on twisting my words. I think it's great that he made a decision. Any decision is better than no decision. And I think it's great that he's dedicated to his W. And no, I don't think he owes OW anything. BUT, to laugh about stringing OW along, that's messed up. And it totally explains why he doesn't "get it" that other people have residual feelings.

 

show me were i ever said "you must be so stupid to believe that, lol"

 

show me were i called someone stupid?you are quoting something i never said..

 

listen i know i hit your ow nerve but please dont start attributing things to me that i never said...

 

i was trying to help jennie understand what mm men do in affairs, i think i am well versed to speak on the subject as i have lived it and done it..i was trying to warn her so maybe she wouldnt get hurt, you perceive it as what you want but you have to stop looking at it from an ow who was hurt perspective..

[NoIDidn't]

just out of curiosity, NS, if your wife said she is having a hard time getting over what you did with another woman....what would you say to her if she said that she needs to go out and have another man make her squeal and give her orgasms in an attempt to help her cope?

 

dont get me wrong, this isn't a serious suggestion that she do this and I in NO WAY would respect someone even if they have been cheated on that thought this way.

 

but some people do believe that getting even and evening the playing field is what they need to move on. So what would you say if she says she wants to go out with the girls next weekend so she can hunt down a man and take him back to a hotel?

 

 

 

Hey, Dex, I know you didn't ask me this question, but I wanted to answer.

 

My H didn't have sex with his OW since it was an EA, but when we started looking to heal our marriage, he actually gave me "permission" to do what he did, if it would help me heal. I don't think that a tit-for-tat on that level is healthy or helpful, but some people do it and say it helps them.

 

But he put conditions on it, and I told him he didn't have my permission or any associated conditions, and yet he still did it.

 

I don't think that "hunting down a guy and taking him back to the hotel" is the same thing as having a person develop feelings for you (whether the feelings are reciprocated or not). When someone has a revenge affair, I would hope that they opt for more than just a ONS and get something out of it more than just wild sex..

[MistyK]

show me were i ever said "you must be so stupid to believe that, lol"

 

show me were i called someone stupid?you are quoting something i never said..

 

listen i know i hit your ow nerve but please dont start attributing things to me that i never said...

 

i was trying to help jennie understand what mm men do in affairs, i think i am well versed to speak on the subject as i have lived it and done it..i was trying to warn her so maybe she wouldnt get hurt, you perceive it as what you want but you have to stop looking at it from an ow who was hurt perspective..

 

I said it was the tone of your remarks - lots of lol's and smiley faces. It wasn't a direct quote, obviously. I know you were trying to help jennie, but your comments illustrate a real insentivity, which is apparently ok with everyone since you are trying to get your M back on track.

 

It's obvious to everyone that you treated your W badly, that goes without saying. But many people here don't care if MM treat OW like crap. Given that this is infidelity, I get that. But I just thought you might want to take a look at the whole picture in reforming yourself, not the part that's politically correct. I never indicated that I think that ought to detract from what your real focus should be - your M. But I do think your insensitivity to how you may have hurt the OW (whether or not the BS's feel she deserved it) explains why you don't get how other WS's have lingering feelings.

 

Obviously you had to give up one or the other. She evidently wanted to stay in her M, and I think you made a good choice-- and I do NOT think that choice was an act of malice against the OW, you were doing the right thing. It is in fact, far more kind than continuing to string her along. That is all. At any rate, I am growing extremely weary of people twisting my words into sentiments I never said. Best of luck with your reconciliation.

[Spark1111]

I agree and believe the offer is made more to help the WS from alleviating the devastating guilt they are feeling for the own actions, then to help a BS to heal.

 

Otherwise, why impose conditions? To make THEM feel better about the offer.

 

It is lunacy.