jealousagain Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Hi: Thanks in advance for any responses I get. I don't really have a problem--my boyfriend hasn't done anything yet--but I do have kind of a moral issue that I need some help with. You see, I despise strip clubs, and it's not because I'm a prude or religious. I despise them not only for the obvious, feminist reasons that they are misogynistic and objectify women, but also that they inspire infidelity in relationships. Recently, my boyfriend and I were talking about them, though, and I told him how much I hated them. I told him the reasons why, and made my position totally clear. Then he said something to the effect of "I don't like them either because they are disgusting and display misogyny and chauvinism," etc. I then asked if he said that for my benefit, and he said yes. We dropped the conversation there... I should have told him that I view going to strip clubs as cheating, and see what he thinks about it. He hasn't gone to any clubs since we've been together--or at least any that I know about--and I am really not accusing him of anything like that. My problem is that I want to approach the subject of how he sees it, like if he views it as cheating or not. And, even more than that, what his views on infidelity are in general. We still haven't discussed this in much detail, and we've been together for over a year now. To clarify: we both agree that it's wrong, that he feels that all of the responsibility is squarely laid on the person who cheats and not the person who is being cheated with (I feel that the responsibility is 50% on each person involved in infidelity, but not the person being cheated on) and that he hasn't ever cheated on anyone before (and hopefully never will). Now I haven't told him that I've actually cheated before, one time when I was extremely drunk and I was very unhappy in a relationship, I kissed another guy and immediately regretted it. That doesn't make it right, I know; I did a very bad thing and I will never again repeat it. (It helps that I don't drink at all anymore.) I just hope we're not doomed to have different opinions on the subject. I would break up with him if he didn't share my views at least halfway, or at the very least respect all of them. To have someone that shares my morals and principles is very important to me. I just want to know how best to have this conversation... Link to post Share on other sites
sally4sara Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I'm not sure what you're hoping to gain from bringing it up again while the topic is not relevant to issues in your relationship. You've already told him your view of strip clubs in general. He had nothing more to share on the subject than to tell you want to hear. Even if his opinion is different than yours, he knows your view on it already. Is he planning to go to one soon? If not, it isn't relevant RIGHT NOW to get into a tiff over. Continuing to state your views on something you've already stated your views about seems a bit like fishing for a fight or twisting the screws for no reason. It will just make you sound crazy. Bring it up if it ever does become relevant to your relationship. As to your past with cheating in relation to the subject of strip clubs. I don't think your past is relevant to the strip club subject. It makes you sound like you're looking at using the subject of strip clubs to use as a segue to let him know you've cheated in the past. I'm not sure why you would want to give him this info unless some part of you feels like you should still be punished for it. Do you seek punishment because you think forgiveness will come to you but cannot get that from the person you cheated on? Link to post Share on other sites
Author jealousagain Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 I think you're right. Thanks for an honest answer. I don't want to bring up something that could potentially become a sore spot, and I certainly don't want to raise an issue where there are none. No, he's not planning to go to one any time soon... So I guess it's a non-issue. I just... I was just wondering if perhaps I should reopen my window of opportunity since I missed it when we were talking about it. I don't want to do any damage to our relationship in any way, especially not over something that's kind of moot since it doesn't have any basis in our current reality. My past is only relevant in the discussions about cheating in general. I don't intend to use the strip club thing as a segue into my past, and, if it sounded like I wanted to, it was purely unintentional. I don't know if I want to bring it up at all, actually; there are certain things that are better left unsaid. Link to post Share on other sites
AlektraClementine Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 If you're feeling anxiety, no matter the reason, it's valid. You obviously aren't certain of your BFs feelings on the subject. Why bottle it? It's taken me 20 months with my fiance to finally stop that nonsense. Link to post Share on other sites
AAlike Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 If you're feeling anxiety, no matter the reason, it's valid. You obviously aren't certain of your BFs feelings on the subject. Why bottle it? It's taken me 20 months with my fiance to finally stop that nonsense. I agree that you should not bottle it up, but at the same time, you do need to realize that your boyfriend only needs to be RESPECTFUL of your views, not to completely agree with them. It's one thing to say: "I am not really cool with strip clubs and would appreciate it if you did not go to one while we are dating" versus "I believe that a visit to a strip club constitutes cheating and I don't think that we're compatible unless you feel the same" If I were dating you, and you said the first sentence I'd probably shrug and say "sure" (it'd be a non-issue with me since I find strip clubs to be completely unstimulating), but if you said the second, which I definitely disagree with, it would raise all types of red flags. Link to post Share on other sites
googlegirl Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 i am going through the same issues with my boyfriend. we recently went to las vegas and eventually admitted that he had a private dance. but the thing that hurts is that he sat and had a drink wth this girl. i know it is the rule that u have to buy u and her a drink but i dont like the idea that they had a full on conversation and he refered to her as a nice girl. i feel so jealous. if i bring it up he gets mad but i just cant seem to let go. i just feel like if it were any other girl stripping for him it would be cheating so why does it suddenly make it okay just because he paid for it?????? doesnt make sense to me. what do others think? Link to post Share on other sites
googlegirl Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 sorry i meant to say he not we Link to post Share on other sites
2sure Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 OP - its quite possible that you and your BF have entirely different views regarding strip clubs. Also, it sounds like you have a stronger feeling about your views on the subject than he does. In other words, he doesnt agree with you, but doesnt feel passionate about the subject either way. Thats not a bad thing. Unless this subject means so much to you that you are ACTIVE in protesting strip clubs, or some other equal issue - whats the difference? If its important to you and not so much to him...often in good relationships ...you just let your partner have that. As in, he doesnt think strip clubs are bad but you do...they mean nothing to him, so he wont go. Why wouldn't that be enough? Does he HAVE to change not only his actions but his thought as well? I mean, sometimes thats important of course...but is it this time? Link to post Share on other sites
ReturnToSender Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I agree that you should not bottle it up, but at the same time, you do need to realize that your boyfriend only needs to be RESPECTFUL of your views, not to completely agree with them. It's one thing to say: "I am not really cool with strip clubs and would appreciate it if you did not go to one while we are dating" versus "I believe that a visit to a strip club constitutes cheating and I don't think that we're compatible unless you feel the same" If I were dating you, and you said the first sentence I'd probably shrug and say "sure" (it'd be a non-issue with me since I find strip clubs to be completely unstimulating), but if you said the second, which I definitely disagree with, it would raise all types of red flags. I wholeheartedly agree with this... Whether or not he thinks strip clubs are wrong is not the point..whether or not he thinks they are wrong "for him" is what matters. And I have to say....if Im in a relationship where Im faithful, give no reason to show otherwise, and live my life in a way that compliments my partner, yet my SO felt infidelity was a major concern, it woudl freak me out. That to me woudl throw off red flags that hes got a guilty conscious...and I would start to second guess him and his intentions! Not good... Link to post Share on other sites
boldjack Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 OP I don't condemn strip clubs or defend them, and I 'm not sure that going to them could be considered cheating. The main problem you appear to be having is one of communication. You must make your feelings known to your BF and get his ideas, in return, so that both of you are aware of each others boundaries. Link to post Share on other sites
AAlike Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Return to Sender and 2sure have some good points. By making a huge issue out of something that could potentially be a non-issue, you risk coming across as controlling or insecure. I have no interest in going to dance clubs either, I never liked them when I was single, but if my GF said "you better not go to clubs because I consider that cheating and if you don't, we have issues", I'd immediately think "wow, how controlling and/or insecure is this girl and what else is she going to consider to be cheating?" now if I started GOING to clubs she would have every right to ask why I was doing so...you see the difference? (I feel that the responsibility is 50% on each person involved in infidelity, but not the person being cheated on) oh yeah? you think that the other man/woman bears as much responsibility as the actual cheater?? I assume that this is in the situation that the cheater discloses that they are taken, but even so that is a pretty bold statement. and that he hasn't ever cheated on anyone before (and hopefully never will). Now I haven't told him that I've actually cheated before, one time when I was extremely drunk and I was very unhappy in a relationship, I kissed another guy and immediately regretted it. That doesn't make it right, I know; I did a very bad thing and I will never again repeat it. (It helps that I don't drink at all anymore.) I just hope we're not doomed to have different opinions on the subject. I would break up with him if he didn't share my views at least halfway, or at the very least respect all of them. To have someone that shares my morals and principles is very important to me. I just want to know how best to have this conversation... no offense, but you are really asking a lot here - you are saying that you could potentially BREAK UP with this guy because he doesn't share your sort-of-extreme views on something that he hasn't even done and has shown no inclination to do that you think would constitute cheating - all the while maintaining a rather liberal and self-serving view about cheating itself and not being honest with him about your own cheating. by your logic, he's only "half-cheating" anyway by being at the strip club since the blame falls 50/50 on him and the stripper, right? These viewpoints seem to be a bit incongruous, and I'm thinking that this is more a manifestation of insecurity than anything else. Link to post Share on other sites
Dark-Farmer Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 I think your view on strip clubs is a bit ridiculous. Just stepping foot in an establishment is cheating? the same category as have sex with another woman? I'm sorry that's ludicrous And i have a negative look on strip clubs and i still think you view is wrong. I also think they are dirty places and extremely rarely go to them. I also feel if your man did go to them and you didn't like it, he should not go. I would see if you said "don't go to strip clubs" and he did anyways and wouldn't stop; then there would be a problem. I mean i am in a committed relationship and i went to one, for my brother’s bachelor party, it's no biggy and my girlfriend knew. She didn't seem thrilled but, she didn't make a big stink either. You sort of are assuming that when guys go to strip clubs they sit there and turn into zombies and drool until they get kicked out, which really isn't the case. (Unless you're like a single virgin hermit man living in the wild) As for spawning infidelity, they don't necessarily do so more than any other bar or club. If someone wanted to cheat they will always find someone, anywhere. I've been hit on more at regular bars way more that strip clubs, and i was in a relationship so i said no. Link to post Share on other sites
MSUE Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 how is going to a strip club cheating? not in my book...I personally don't think its a big deal...I see as entertainment...but that's just me...I just wonder if something of this caliber is reason to start a big back and forth I don't want to know what it would be like when something major does happen...and trust me every R has its bumps...often times this all comes down to insecurities here's a bit of advice...make your BR a stripclub for him...give him a lap dance and have fun with it Link to post Share on other sites
phineas Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 On strip clubs - looking is ok as far as i'm concerned but a lap dance (touching) may be pushing it depending on the relationship. I wouldn't hide I was going to a strip club from my GF or Wife but I also wouldn't waste money on lapdances either out of respect. But i'd look. Link to post Share on other sites
AAlike Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 I would see if you said "don't go to strip clubs" and he did anyways and wouldn't stop; then there would be a problem. I mean i am in a committed relationship and i went to one, for my brother’s bachelor party, it's no biggy and my girlfriend knew. She didn't seem thrilled but, she didn't make a big stink either. right - the only times that I've been to strip clubs in the past few years have been for bach parties or some other stupid special occassion - in all honesty I think we would have had more fun shooting pool or whatever...however, I can't even imagine having to tell the other people at the bachelor party "hey I can't go with you guys because my fiancee considers it to be cheating". but like you said, if I started to go just to go, I can see where the concern would arise. You sort of are assuming that when guys go to strip clubs they sit there and turn into zombies and drool until they get kicked out, which really isn't the case. (Unless you're like a single virgin hermit man living in the wild) right - I think that women sensationalize them quite a bit...anytime I've gone it's been way more about the humor and the absurdity than anything "erotic". Link to post Share on other sites
Thaddeus Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 anytime I've gone it's been way more about the humor and the absurdity than anything "erotic".I personally haven't been to one in years, but I found this to be absolutely true. There's very little "erotic" or arousing, it's all actually rather silly. Link to post Share on other sites
ReturnToSender Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 While on the extreme end of the scale, I wouldnt say flat out that her view is "wrong" No one can decide for another what is right or wrong. When it comes to things like this...the views and boundaries vary so wildly...theres no right or wrong...theres no one way to approach everything. There are a lot of people with extreme views...from one end of the scale to the other. I dont see a problem with strip clubs, but thats just my personal view. I realize there are other views to be had... There are plenty of guys who feel as strongly against sex clubs and other sexual matters. Ive read it plenty of times on here, about lots of sexual related matters, guys saying they would cut loose and run from a woman whose sexual views didnt agree with their own...even if she wasnt actively practicing...just knowing its something shes done or would do would be reason enough. Anyway, if its that much of a major deal, and it causes that much bad feeling and discontent against a partner, then it comes down to compatibility, and finding someone who shares the same values. Its a shame in a way, but at the same time...no one else has to be in that relationship feeling what she does except for her..and if she feels negatively towards him and cant be truly happy with him because they dont agree on this....thats not fair to either of them. Link to post Share on other sites
ReturnToSender Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 but like you said, if I started to go just to go, I can see where the concern would arise. right - I think that women sensationalize them quite a bit...anytime I've gone it's been way more about the humor and the absurdity than anything "erotic". Keep the hope alive...hah! There are a lot of women who could really care less. I knew when I met my bf he went to strip clubs...and I knew when hed gone, because there are publications that they only have at strip clubs and Id find them in his magazine rack. Doesnt bother me one way or the other if him and his friends go out there for some drinks and check out whatever there is to check out there. On his own though, he stopped going. The only reason I can venture to guess is most of his friends are now dating/married/etc and leaving that world behind...maybe because their gf's/wives put an end to it Funny story, my ex told me that he used to go to strip clubs to help swear himself off of women whenever a bad relationship ended...he said the same thing you did..that it was all so amusing and crazy...it made women out to be so comical. He said that any smart woman would be more afraid of her man passing by a sharply dressed sexy woman who casts him a sensual look than the naked women reaching into every guys pocket...thats their job, the stranger on the street is actually interested. Link to post Share on other sites
Dark-Farmer Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 .and if she feels negatively towards him and cant be truly happy with him because they dont agree on this....thats not fair to either of them. But to end a 1 year relationship because of such a minor discrepancy is stupid. If he said well i don't think that going to a strip club is cheating what so ever, but i don't really like going and i won't go for you. there is no legitimate reason for her to be upset Link to post Share on other sites
LakesideDream Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 JealousAgain, Why don't you just tell your BF that strip clubs are a deal breaker for you? Personally I would welcome that type of frankness in a lady. Link to post Share on other sites
ReturnToSender Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 But to end a 1 year relationship because of such a minor discrepancy is stupid. If he said well i don't think that going to a strip club is cheating what so ever, but i don't really like going and i won't go for you. there is no legitimate reason for her to be upset Hey I agree...you think so, and I think so too, but its not my relationship and its not up to me to decide whether or not what someone feels is legitimate or not...everyone doesnt think the same way I do, nor do they have to. I can only give my point of view based on what I think and my own experience and hope someone takes it into consideration as a point of view they may be missing. The ultimate decision in someone elses relationship is not mine to make however. Link to post Share on other sites
AAlike Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 JealousAgain, Why don't you just tell your BF that strip clubs are a deal breaker for you? Personally I would welcome that type of frankness in a lady. I agree that would be fine but it doesn't seem to be accurate. she seems to be saying that he HAS to hate them and consider them to be infidelity, not just that she doesn't want him to go. to break it down more simply, w/o the strip club element: "Hey I don't like dogs" - totally fine statement "Hey, a dog would be a dealbreaker for me" - totally fine statement "Hey, I know we don't have a dog, nor have you ever brought one up, but if you don't hate them I think that's a major philosophical difference worthy of ending our relationship" - perhaps overreaching?? Link to post Share on other sites
ReturnToSender Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 I agree that would be fine but it doesn't seem to be accurate. she seems to be saying that he HAS to hate them and consider them to be infidelity, not just that she doesn't want him to go. ...this right here is why I mentioned, she probably needs to be with someone who shares her same values. At least in this subject, she is on the extreme end of the scale...and I would venture to guess there are other subjects she is extreme about as well. Anyone who doesnt share the same values would get incredibly frustrated with being told not just what to do, but how to think. That (to me) is controlling behavior. Thats not fair to him at all...and its not fair to her either to stay just because shes been with him for a year and is made to feel stupid for her value system, then secretly harboring ill feelings about it. Better I believe to be with somoene who shares the same views, and thinks the same way she does. Harmony. Link to post Share on other sites
AAlike Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 ...this right here is why I mentioned, she probably needs to be with someone who shares her same values. true - but realize that means that she needs: - A guy that agrees that a strip club is equal to infidelity - A guy that is OK with the fact that she actually HAS been unfaithful in the past, that is if she plans on being honest hmmm...can anyone say "null set"?? therefore I think she'd be better served by trying to maybe be a little more realistic with her views. Link to post Share on other sites
MissJoness Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 i am going through the same issues with my boyfriend. we recently went to las vegas and eventually admitted that he had a private dance. but the thing that hurts is that he sat and had a drink wth this girl. i know it is the rule that u have to buy u and her a drink but i dont like the idea that they had a full on conversation and he refered to her as a nice girl. i feel so jealous. if i bring it up he gets mad but i just cant seem to let go. i just feel like if it were any other girl stripping for him it would be cheating so why does it suddenly make it okay just because he paid for it?????? doesnt make sense to me. what do others think? You should dump him. I probably would have smacked him repeatedly in the back of the head for that mess. Link to post Share on other sites
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