aeh Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 shewter, It sounds like your wife, deep down, did not want to leave your marriage. She still must have loved you but was unhappy with how things had been between the two of you. It sounds like the situation in my own marriage. Although I didn't realize it at the time, my marriage was similar, basically DOA, at the time my husband made some very poor choices. I say it was the 'Bermuda Triangle' of bad circumstances last year. I don't think either my husband or me realized how bad our marriage had become and when things started go so wrong, neither of us knew how to fix it. The thing is, like shewter mentions here and I will as well, sometimes spouses don't want to leave their marriages. They aren't cake-eaters but they aren't sure how to fix things either. It isn't as simple as just leaving and walking away because things were so bad in the marriage, especially if you still really want things to be better. I know it wasn't easy for my husband. He said many times, right before his A, during and even after, "I don't want a divorce, but I'm not happy with what our marriage has become." My husband made some bad choices. I won't deny that and he doesn't either but it wasn't like our marriage was perfect by any stretch. He saw it at that point, I didn't, at least not yet. His choices 'finished off' or 'killed' our bad marriage. But from this, we started a new relationship because in the end we wanted to be together. It's a fine distinction; some people understand it and some don't. Shewter and Snowflower, this is some of the most poignant reading I have done here at LS. For some reason, this really speaks to me today because this is so true for our situation as well. Reading this helps me to see beyond my own immense pain somehow and start to see things from his perspective..which I truly wasn't ready to look at up to this point because I have been so angry.
aeh Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 I agree with this 100% As I processed, reflected and ruminated on my choices after d-day, I realized that our marriage wasn't great before. I wasn't the best wife; in fact, I can admit that a lot of times I barely even put in the effort to maintain the marriage. I can say for a lot of years, my husband did try a lot harder than I ever did. I was content with what we had and eventually my husband and I just existed together. Now, if I had been the best wife I could be, really, really tried and my H still cheated on me...well, then that would have been different. I would have had some different decisions to make. But that simply wasn't my situation. Again, this so speaks to me. Exactly my situation. I must be in the right mood to hear this today.
Snowflower Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 (edited) When reasons are used not as excuses, but as starting points for working on what went wrong then they can be very useful. Thank you for writing this, DI. It's exactly what I believe. I have always maintained that 'explanations are NOT the same as excuses.' For me to even consider a future with my husband, I had to hear and understand why his A happened. There were no excuses from my H. He didn't blame me. But he could explain (however wrong his thinking was at that time) how things happened. Only then could I figure out if I would ever be able to forgive my H. In the end, what she didn't do was more significant than what she did do. I completely understand what you are saying and I like what you wrote here. My H made plenty of mistakes and crossed some lines that he definitely shouldn't have. However, there were also things that he did right, even in the middle of his A. There were boundaries that he maintained and things that he did (or didn't do), in an attempt to preserve some of his own integrity and so that maybe I would give him another chance. Shewter and Snowflower, this is some of the most poignant reading I have done here at LS. For some reason, this really speaks to me today because this is so true for our situation as well. Reading this helps me to see beyond my own immense pain somehow and start to see things from his perspective..which I truly wasn't ready to look at up to this point because I have been so angry. It takes awhile for a BS to get to the point where this type of perspective is possible. It's okay and no matter what, it is an important part of your healing process, aeh, just as the anger was a part. I did the same thing, I was fixated on what my H had done to ME. Eventually though, and MC did help with this, I could see where I had hurt him, as well. Two wrongs don't make a right but I had also failed him over the years, many times. After we began to work through the devastation that was left behind from his A, my H and I really saw each other for who we were. At that point, we were two emotionally wounded individuals who had hurt each other terribly at different times and in different ways. We were for the first time seeing each other at our most vulnerable, all defenses down. It was the start of true intimacy for us. We had NEVER been that close to each other emotionally in the nearly 19 years we had known each other. It was as if in our pain we reached for each other for comfort and mutual strength. Oddly enough, I sensed that we were doing this even before d-day. My H was one of those spouses who was miserable in their choice to have an A and at odd times would reach for me emotionally. It's a very difficult and painful journey, aeh, but if you and your husband are committed enough and can trust each other enough to expose yourselves emotionally to the other, you have the opportunity to build a new relationship. One that will likely be stronger and more loving than it ever was before. It doesn't always work out but when it does-and I have seen other stories like it on LS, it can be a very wonderful thing. Edited October 8, 2009 by Snowflower
bullhunter Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 What led you to it? How did it start? What advice would you give to others trying to strengthen their marriage? Did you ever claim you never had the desire to have an affair, yet when the opportunity arose, you jumped at the chance? Just curious. What led you to it? I was very depressed. My wife seemed to be uninterested in me and focused on her career and children (the children were not mine, which may have contributed to my insecurity as well.) I began to feel inept and incapable and felt my wife was much more intelligent than I. I became friends with a woman who obviously was attracted to me. She was not overly intelligent, and she looked up to me. Her friendship became important. How did it start? The woman moved to another state and asked me to write. We began emailing. As we wrote I began to be more attracted to her. Finally, she came up to visit and we began to be more physical. What advice would you give to others trying to strengthen their marriage? Communicate. Don't assume the worst. Talk to your spouse. If you have problems with her behavior then make sure she understands the extent of the problem. Do not develop close friendships with people of the opposite sex, especially if you are upset with your spouse. It's very easy to assume the best of someone you are not angry at. Did you ever claim you never had the desire to have an affair, yet when the opportunity arose, you jumped at the chance? I never thought I would have an affair, but I did not jump at the chance, either. I've had many chances. This was a bad combination of circumstances.
SueBee3490 Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 EXACTLY - Some argue here (& I don't understand it) that there are many who cheat in GREAT marriages....Or have a spouse that is AMAZING 100% of the time. Beats me why someone would cheat in that scenario. This described my bf exactly. No problems in relationship, we were very happy together - at least I thought so - but he cheated anyway
pollswolls Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 This described my bf exactly. No problems in relationship, we were very happy together - at least I thought so - but he cheated anyway But is it not true that sometimes in a relationship - One person may think things are super & the other party doesn't feel the same way? So, if the person that's unhappy doesn't vocalize their discontent with the relationship - I say, That's their fault. But if they try & talk to their significant other & that person still doesn't listen...Well, now who's fault is it?
SueBee3490 Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 But is it not true that sometimes in a relationship - One person may think things are super & the other party doesn't feel the same way? So, if the person that's unhappy doesn't vocalize their discontent with the relationship - I say, That's their fault. But if they try & talk to their significant other & that person still doesn't listen...Well, now who's fault is it? Not to hijack this thread but no he did not voice anything wrong. We were a LDR but i was dealing with the same thing he was dealing with - the distance between us! I missed him when he wasn't there but cheating would have NEVER entered my mind. My love for him was what kept me faithful until I saw him again.
silktricks Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 But is it not true that sometimes in a relationship - One person may think things are super & the other party doesn't feel the same way? So, if the person that's unhappy doesn't vocalize their discontent with the relationship - I say, That's their fault. But if they try & talk to their significant other & that person still doesn't listen...Well, now who's fault is it? Assigning blame in such a situation is difficult - there can be many reasons a person doesn't listen, not just because they aren't interested. If the person who is discontent truly wants to be heard they will attempt more than one way to communicate. Sometimes it is my opinion that they don't really want to be heard, because it's more convenient to keep their current (bad) opinion of their SO so they have an excuse to do rotten things themselves....
Snowflower Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 What led you to it? I was very depressed. My wife seemed to be uninterested in me and focused on her career and children (the children were not mine, which may have contributed to my insecurity as well.) I began to feel inept and incapable and felt my wife was much more intelligent than I. I became friends with a woman who obviously was attracted to me. She was not overly intelligent, and she looked up to me. Her friendship became important. How did it start? The woman moved to another state and asked me to write. We began emailing. As we wrote I began to be more attracted to her. Finally, she came up to visit and we began to be more physical. What advice would you give to others trying to strengthen their marriage? Communicate. Don't assume the worst. Talk to your spouse. If you have problems with her behavior then make sure she understands the extent of the problem. Do not develop close friendships with people of the opposite sex, especially if you are upset with your spouse. It's very easy to assume the best of someone you are not angry at. Did you ever claim you never had the desire to have an affair, yet when the opportunity arose, you jumped at the chance? I never thought I would have an affair, but I did not jump at the chance, either. I've had many chances. This was a bad combination of circumstances. bullhunter, you sound a lot like my husband...especially about assuming the worst about your spouse and assuming the best about your AP. This sounds exactly like what my H said at the time of d-day (he confessed) and in our very first conversations afterward. I also agree about the bad combination of circumstances. Were you able to save your marriage?
confusedinkansas Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 If the person who is discontent truly wants to be heard they will attempt more than one way to communicate. Sometimes it is my opinion that they don't really want to be heard, because it's more convenient to keep their current (bad) opinion of their SO so they have an excuse to do rotten things themselves.... Oh if it were only this easy! I am sure I'm not the only one out there who's husband didn't listen - time & time again I tried. He shut me out. It does sound like making excuses - but I tried for years to make him hear me. He just wouldn't. Kept going deeper into his drinking & carousing around. It was his way of dealing with the circumstances at the time. Just like my way of dealing with that - was the affair.
Dexter Morgan Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 Oh if it were only this easy! I am sure I'm not the only one out there who's husband didn't listen - time & time again I tried. He shut me out. It does sound like making excuses - but I tried for years to make him hear me. He just wouldn't. Kept going deeper into his drinking & carousing around. It was his way of dealing with the circumstances at the time. Just like my way of dealing with that - was the affair. and what if problems arise again and his way of dealing with it was to have an affair like you did? what will you do? would you give him the same courtesy of forgiveness after you had your affair? Or would you divorce him?
silktricks Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 Oh if it were only this easy! I am sure I'm not the only one out there who's husband didn't listen - time & time again I tried. He shut me out. It does sound like making excuses - but I tried for years to make him hear me. He just wouldn't. Kept going deeper into his drinking & carousing around. It was his way of dealing with the circumstances at the time. Just like my way of dealing with that - was the affair. I didn't say it was easy. It's not. But it can be done. My husband said the same thing to me, that he kept trying to talk to me... but the way he attempted to talk to me would never have worked - and I'm still certain that he knew it wouldn't work. He certainly seems to be able to talk to me now... and for that matter, he was able to talk to me a few years beforehand as well.... I just don't think that the only thing blocking communication was me. If I tried to say something to him about being unhappy, his response was "I'm unhappy too" that was his way of talking to me. I'm not saying that's the way it is with you, but I do say that if you really truly want to get someone to listen to you, there are ways to make it happen. If you are so unhappy that you're decision is to have an affair, then please - go get a divorce. In the long run it's a lot easier on everyone.
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