To those who cheated...

[tami-chan]

you say "For BS", but if they are talking about it before they cheat, then they aren't a BS yet.

 

ok, that out of the way, if someone hasn't cheated, but comes to me with their concerns, you bet I am going to listen. I would most likely have my own list of issues to discuss with her as well.

 

But what I don't have an interest in is dialogue that would lead me down a path that basically states..."well, she cheated, therefore I must give in to this emotional extortion and do as she wants, otherwise she'll just do it again". Only dialogue I will be interested in in that point will lead down the path of me saying something like, "so, when are you coming back to pick up your belongings?"

 

 

 

 

 

if they have already cheated, then it wasn't shutting down and being angry that led them to it in the first place since it wasn't brought up before.

 

And if someone cheats, are you to lead us to believe that a cheating spouse should expect, and be entitled to a betrayed spouse that is NOT angry? Come one. The WS just dealt them one of the biggest blows ever....they WILL be angry, unless they are desperate lapdogs.

The WS SHOULD expect anger, at least at first. For a WS to cheat, then cheat again because they aren't getting the easy way to go is ridiculous.

 

If a WS cheats because the BS is angry about the first cheating, then the WS needs to be served divorce papers.

If they WS has ANY desire to work through the problems in the marriage, they will suffer throught the understandable anger of the BS for a while. They don't have to take anger for years, but at first, it should be understandable. You just f#cked them over in one of the biggest ways....you don't get to cheat, then expect some whipped pup to cowtow to you because you would cheat again if they don't let you off the hook easy.

 

 

Long post....so what is your response to the OP's original question?

[tami-chan]

I had an affair because my husband and I did not have the kind of marriage that we should have had...he was cheat many times over, still, I did not go out of my marriage--I was too busy raising my child and going to school and working. After more than a decade of that...I, frankly, gave myself permission to be with someone else....

 

How did it start....This attractive, successful man relentlessly pursued me-it was very flattering. Until that time the guys who tried to ask me out were like me-students and/or just trying to establish themselves financially. So we had a 2 year EA...that had nowhere to go but bust or go PA....we chose PA..

 

Advice? If you are thinking of having an affair....you better be prepared to lose your H/W or OM/OW or to end up alone when the dust settles...If you cannot imagine losing your SO...then work on you marriage-don't go out of your marriage.

 

Did you ever claim you never had the desire to have an affair, yet when the opportunity arose, you jumped at the chance?

 

Well, I did not set out looking for an affair, that's for sure-there were many opportunities..and no, I did not "jump at the chance"...I do know that I was at the point in my life where I felt I have arrived on my own and was less afraid of the consequences ( if there was going to be any).

[Dexter Morgan]

Never cheated on boyfriend but who knows, what if the opportunity would have presented. Not being in love and opportunity being there, well it would kinda make sense...

 

 

not being in love and opportunity being there, well it would kinda make sense..........to break up and not have a boyfriend.

 

it astounds me that there can be justifications for hurting someone else. if one isn't in love, then one doesn't need to have a boyfriend or girlfriend if the above is their attitude on cheating.

[Dexter Morgan]

Long post....so what is your response to the OP's original question?

 

I don't have to have an answer to the OP's original question in order to participate in a thread that evolves from the first post.

 

You jump in the middle of threads and don't adress the OP too, so nice try here tams. practice what you preach.

[mybrowneyedgirl]

im sure many will say that there obviously was some sort of problem in my marriage that led to an affair but 3 years later i still cant figure it out. my husband is pefect in my eyes and always has been.

 

my AP was a friend who suddenly gave me attention in a way that he hadnt before. we connected and it went from there. and once it started we didnt know how to stop it.

[confusedinkansas]

This is an interesting thread - There's never an "excuse" for an affair....But there are REASONS. ~ Good, Bad or Indifferent.....

Everyone's is different.

For me, my H & I for about 3 years prior to my affair had gone thru the toughest time in our marriage & lots of changes. Because of all that he began to drink...& the drinking accelerated to where he wouldn't see me, hear me & really couldn't care less about anyone but himself. Leaving was out of the question for me (for lots of reasons-at the time) So, I started chatting online. It was my escape from dealing with my husband. It wasn't the goal to meet someone, it was purely by accident. My affair partner & I had a lot in common so talking came very easy. The affair itsself lasted over 2 years. We tried to be friends after - but it just didn't work.

 

Fast Forward to today - My husband & I are VERY happy together. We did split for a year - but it wasn't due to the affair. We've "fixed" the major issues & while no marriage is perfect, we have a new respect for each other.

 

Would I ever do it again! HELL NO!! Affairs are most definitely NOT the answer. But you can't tell someone who's never had one this - they just don't get it. My AP was a very very nice man who I fell in love with - But NEVER again! Too much drama - I'm sure that I aged 10 years in those years he & I were togehter!

[Dexter Morgan]

This is an interesting thread - There's never an "excuse" for an affair....But there are REASONS.

 

and those "reasons" are used AS "excuses" by the people who had an affair. They'll say "but thats not an excuse"......but they felt the need to bring it up in an attempt to diminish their actions, or that their actions should be understood.

[NowhereToHide]

and those "reasons" are used AS "excuses" by the people who had an affair. They'll say "but thats not an excuse"......but they felt the need to bring it up in an attempt to diminish their actions, or that their actions should be understood.

 

 

 

Dexter.... not everyone uses "excuses" for engaging in an affair. Most posts I've read on here are people that say that they made a huge mistake and wish it would never have happened.

 

Of course there are reasons behind any behavior or action, good or bad. Reasons, not excuses.

 

People make mistakes. Even you. You may have not cheated, but you're not perfect. No one is.

[Dexter Morgan]

People make mistakes. Even you. You may have not cheated, but you're not perfect. No one is.

 

cheating is not a mistake. Its a conscious decision. People know cheating is wrong, yet do it anyway.

 

unlike a mistake where one doesn't know what the right choice is, but only finds out AFTER the choice is implemented.

 

Nope, I'm not perfect. But I will never willfully betray anyone or stab them in the back. And there is a big difference in not being perfect with regards to cheating, and someone who isn't perfect because they stupidly washed colors with whites:o

[NowhereToHide]

cheating is not a mistake. Its a conscious decision. People know cheating is wrong, yet do it anyway.

 

unlike a mistake where one doesn't know what the right choice is, but only finds out AFTER the choice is implemented.

 

Nope, I'm not perfect. But I will never willfully betray anyone or stab them in the back. And there is a big difference in not being perfect with regards to cheating, and someone who isn't perfect because they stupidly washed colors with whites:o

 

 

You know what? You're absolutely right. If I think back to me entering into my A, I knew it was wrong, but for many reasons (NOT excuses), I did it anyway. And now that it's behind me I can say it was the biggest mistake of my life. It was a willful betrayal as you described.

[schewter]

There are black and white minded people on here and there are those who look beyond the surface. My wife had an EA after 19 years of putting up with my Bulls--t. She told me six months before it happened that she did not feel loved or married...TWICE! I shrugged her off...kept on doing the things I liked to do; drinking, gambling, etc. (only thing I never did was step out on her) Emotionally I was devastated by what happened...even though she backed out of doing the physical deed and came clean to me. From a logical point of view I know I had what happened coming. If for no other reason than to wake me from my reverie. I was lucky to even have a wife when this happened. There are those on here who were being good spouses and their SOs still stepped out on them...I see that as different than my situation.

[whiteberry]

great questions! Hopefully, every husband would read this. This is also a very big question of mine since my father was also cheated.

[confusedinkansas]

There are black and white minded people on here and there are those who look beyond the surface. My wife had an EA after 19 years of putting up with my Bulls--t. She told me six months before it happened that she did not feel loved or married...TWICE! I shrugged her off...kept on doing the things I liked to do; drinking, gambling, etc. (only thing I never did was step out on her) Emotionally I was devastated by what happened...even though she backed out of doing the physical deed and came clean to me. From a logical point of view I know I had what happened coming. If for no other reason than to wake me from my reverie. I was lucky to even have a wife when this happened. There are those on here who were being good spouses and their SOs still stepped out on them...I see that as different than my situation.

 

This is a post that could very well have come from my husband. Thanks for sharing this.

This does happen in real life - In the real world there are gray areas.

Not saying that when someone is cheated on they deserved it.........

 

BUT, if you're being less than what you should be - **** CAN happen! Some people say "Karma". And by that I don't mean your wife stuck it to you or that I stuck it to my husband because he or you were being less of a husband. She probably did it for the same reason I did - ESCAPE! (without leaving)

[65tr6]

There are those on here who were being good spouses and their SOs still stepped out on them...I see that as different than my situation.

 

I dont know if I was a good spouse but definitely was a responsible spouse. Never gambled or drank like you did ....but I am sure I wasn't perfect. (but then being perfect could cause it's own issues, right ?). But you are right my situation was probably quite different from yours.

 

I also think most of the affairs just "happen" as opposed to someone "looking" for them...believe they have dead marriages before stepping outside. Some may communicate in no uncertain terms how they feel but then I dont know if it serves as a wake up call like you said. My wife never communicated to me explicitly but I will be honest..I would have probably brushed her off...the key being "probably".

[65tr6]

The stresses and issues of my reality were only part of the reason my affair started. The other reason, and probably the main one, was my own insecurity, and low self esteem. My AP wants me, loves me, etc., and that made me feel good about myself for that time. Yes, he wants me for sex, and probably only tells me he loves me so that he can keep me hooked so he can get the sex! Which when I look at it now makes me realize that all he's done is make me feel worse about myself rather than better.

 

I know I will get beaten up for this. What you said probably applies to most wayward wives. And would you say your self-esteem took a further beating because of this (not trying to add an insult to the injury) ?

[JamesM]

Good questions. I am going to answer them (if I may) as one who has not had the affair yet, but knows that it is possible Being in the sexless situation that I am in, I can answer the questions already. And yes, I think knowing what could happen and knowing the answers may actually keep me from an affair.

 

What led you to it?

 

A sexless marriage, and no action on her part to change it. In fact, she has expressed that she does not want sex anymore.

 

 

How did it start?

 

It would start because there would be that moment with someone when we looked at each other after becoming closer and closer emotionally. That look would lead to a kiss. And then step by step it would be an affair.

 

 

What advice would you give to others trying to strengthen their marriage?

 

Listen to your partner. And I mean....listen. Truly understand that his or her concerns are to be taken seriously....even if you trust that person 100%. When your partner's needs are left unfilled, then you leave him or her open for an affair. Preventing it will prevent much heartbreak.

 

Even if you have heard this song and dance, think of how it can be solved. This may be the time that your partner gives up trying to get his or her concerns met.

 

Unfortunately, it is rare that the unfulfilled partner is taken seriously. It is only after the fact that the person betrayed says, "Why didn't you tell me before?" when he or she was told plenty of times, but never really took those complaints or pleas as one step before an affair.

 

Did you ever claim you never had the desire to have an affair, yet when the opportunity arose, you jumped at the chance?

 

I can say that I do not have the desire to have an affair, yet in the right position at the right time, I know that anything is possible. If the opportunity arose, I cannot see my self jumping at it. However, rather than find out the answer, I think I will keep from having any opportunities.

 

 

 

ok, that out of the way, if someone hasn't cheated, but comes to me with their concerns, you bet I am going to listen. I would most likely have my own list of issues to discuss with her as well.

 

 

The one thing I have heard over and over here and on other boards from people whose partner cheated is this very statement: "If he or she had come to me with their concerns before the affair, then I would have listened."

 

And so many times when one sits back and analyzes the situation, then the person who cheated out of desperation DID share the concerns and did so many times. The problem is that the person was never taken seriously or always thought that (a) the person would never cheat, so he or she can be placed on hold until another day, or (b) he or she will get over this rant and things will get back to normal.

 

If your partner has complaints, then deal with them. Period. And yes, I need to tell myself the same thing regarding my wife, too.

[65tr6]

If your partner has complaints, then deal with them. Period. And yes, I need to tell myself the same thing regarding my wife, too.

 

Have you told your wife that you are on the verge of having an affair ? If so, what is her reaction ? What if the affair does serve your wife as a wake up call....?

 

Or better why have an affair....why not an open marriage ?

[JamesM]

Have you told your wife that you are on the verge of having an affair ? If so, what is her reaction ? What if the affair does serve your wife as a wake up call....?

 

Or better why have an affair....why not an open marriage ?

 

My story is well documented here, and my last thread tells how I have or have not handled this.

 

To answer your question briefly, in the past, I did tell her that if she did not want sex and did not care enough to meet that need, then she should not care if I cheated. She responded that time (three years ago) by really showing interest in sex...for about four months. My last thread tells how in April, she actually told me that she has no interest in sex and if it was that important, then I might just have to get it elsewhere. I know she doesn't expect me to do it, and when I mentioned this conversation to her a few weeks back, then she "forgot" it.

 

That is why I strongly emphasize listening and taking one's partner seriously. Ya never know when he or she quits trying or is in a position that is very, very tempting.

 

What would her reaction be if she found me in an affair? Anger, righteous indignation (outwardly). Inwardly, she would be devastated and hurt. She would blame herself. And then she would choose one of a few routes....

 

1. Beg me to come back and rebuild a marriage. Then after the threat is gone, she would lose interest in sex because she had me.

 

2. Keep me but never have sex with me anymore

 

3. Divorce me and let everyone know why.

 

4. Truly be sorry and rebuild the marriage.

 

 

 

But feel free to PM me. I am not "in the mood" (where have I heard that before? ) to hijack this thread over me.

[schewter]

<<BUT, if you're being less than what you should be - **** CAN happen! Some people say "Karma". And by that I don't mean your wife stuck it to you or that I stuck it to my husband because he or you were being less of a husband. She probably did it for the same reason I did - ESCAPE! (without leaving)>>

 

Plain logic really CinK...my wife was looking to me to make her feel special as a woman and I was not stepping up...eventually, somebody else did. Now some on here will say "well she should have left and then started down that path" and they have a point but it's never that simple. Sometimes it's pretty hard to let go of the railing. Our marriage was DOA when it started to happen and the OMs timing was impeccable...the more he was pulling her the more I was pushing. When I finally woke up and realized what I stood to lose and fought for her I was able to win her back...that is a miracle!! She admits she did wrong...but not, in my books, as wrong as a woman or man who does this in a better marriage...everything's relative.

[confusedinkansas]

 

 

EXACTLY - Some argue here (& I don't understand it) that there are many who cheat in GREAT marriages....Or have a spouse that is AMAZING 100% of the time.

Beats me why someone would cheat in that scenario.

 

I definitely agree that it is not easy to just walk away from a marriage - for some it's depending on how many years you have been with your spouse. I have been married 29 years. VERY long time - So, "just walking away" would have been out of the question. Lots here in LS believe that because of an affair the marriage is dead - gone - not revivable! If you take a spouse back after cheating it makes you a weak human being. I'm just one that disagrees with that logic.

 

I'm glad for you (& Me as well) that your marriage worked out & you won her back.....Just like my husband finally stepped up to the plate & saw what he would lose if changes didn't occur.

[Snowflower]

 

Plain logic really CinK...my wife was looking to me to make her feel special as a woman and I was not stepping up...eventually, somebody else did. Now some on here will say "well she should have left and then started down that path" and they have a point but it's never that simple. Sometimes it's pretty hard to let go of the railing. Our marriage was DOA when it started to happen and the OMs timing was impeccable...the more he was pulling her the more I was pushing. When I finally woke up and realized what I stood to lose and fought for her I was able to win her back...that is a miracle!! She admits she did wrong...but not, in my books, as wrong as a woman or man who does this in a better marriage...everything's relative.

 

shewter, It sounds like your wife, deep down, did not want to leave your marriage. She still must have loved you but was unhappy with how things had been between the two of you.

 

It sounds like the situation in my own marriage. Although I didn't realize it at the time, my marriage was similar, basically DOA, at the time my husband made some very poor choices. I say it was the 'Bermuda Triangle' of bad circumstances last year. I don't think either my husband or me realized how bad our marriage had become and when things started go so wrong, neither of us knew how to fix it.

 

The thing is, like shewter mentions here and I will as well, sometimes spouses don't want to leave their marriages. They aren't cake-eaters but they aren't sure how to fix things either. It isn't as simple as just leaving and walking away because things were so bad in the marriage, especially if you still really want things to be better. I know it wasn't easy for my husband. He said many times, right before his A, during and even after, "I don't want a divorce, but I'm not happy with what our marriage has become."

 

My husband made some bad choices. I won't deny that and he doesn't either but it wasn't like our marriage was perfect by any stretch. He saw it at that point, I didn't, at least not yet. His choices 'finished off' or 'killed' our bad marriage. But from this, we started a new relationship because in the end we wanted to be together.

 

It's a fine distinction; some people understand it and some don't.

[Snowflower]

EXACTLY - Some argue here (& I don't understand it) that there are many who cheat in GREAT marriages....Or have a spouse that is AMAZING 100% of the time.

Beats me why someone would cheat in that scenario.

 

I definitely agree that it is not easy to just walk away from a marriage - for some it's depending on how many years you have been with your spouse. I have been married 29 years. VERY long time - So, "just walking away" would have been out of the question. Lots here in LS believe that because of an affair the marriage is dead - gone - not revivable! If you take a spouse back after cheating it makes you a weak human being. I'm just one that disagrees with that logic.

 

I'm glad for you (& Me as well) that your marriage worked out & you won her back.....Just like my husband finally stepped up to the plate & saw what he would lose if changes didn't occur.

 

I agree with this 100%

 

As I processed, reflected and ruminated on my choices after d-day, I realized that our marriage wasn't great before. I wasn't the best wife; in fact, I can admit that a lot of times I barely even put in the effort to maintain the marriage. I can say for a lot of years, my husband did try a lot harder than I ever did. I was content with what we had and eventually my husband and I just existed together.

 

Now, if I had been the best wife I could be, really, really tried and my H still cheated on me...well, then that would have been different. I would have had some different decisions to make. But that simply wasn't my situation.

[Devil Inside]

and those "reasons" are used AS "excuses" by the people who had an affair. They'll say "but thats not an excuse"......but they felt the need to bring it up in an attempt to diminish their actions, or that their actions should be understood.

 

When reasons are used not as excuses, but as starting points for working on what went wrong then they can be very useful.

[Athena]

EXACTLY - Some argue here (& I don't understand it) that there are many who cheat in GREAT marriages....Or have a spouse that is AMAZING 100% of the time.

Beats me why someone would cheat in that scenario.

 

... because he's a narcissistic arsehole...

[schewter]

<<shewter, It sounds like your wife, deep down, did not want to leave your marriage. She still must have loved you but was unhappy with how things had been between the two of you.>>

 

She loved me and hated me at the same time Snow. When she started to let the OM push the envelope with her (he was the aggressor / pursuer) she told me since that part of her thought that this person was going to save her marriage. She knew and I do too (though I hate to admit it emotionally) that the only thing that would impact me enough to make profound and fundamental changes within myself would be the very real threat of losing her to somebody else. She did not go physical...she knew that there would be no coming back from that and she was right; the EA was hurtful enough but the combination of both would have pushed me past the point of recovery. In the end, what she didn't do was more significant than what she did do.