Different ways of ending an EMR

[bentnotbroken]

Sid, I have pondered your words for days. And I'm sure that most MM believe they appear altruistic when they choose to stay at home. And they might appear that way until everyone knows the truth.

 

If I were exMM's W I would absolutely HATE that he chose to stay with me because he THOUGHT he was being altruistic. That would make me feel pathetic! I might even laugh in his face and ask who the hell he thought he was in thinking I needed his mercy!!! He makes her look like a charity case when he says he stays not out of love but out of duty.

 

I think every WH should sit down with his W and tell her what is going on; that he loves someone else and he only stays out of a sense of duty and now that she knows, how would SHE like to handle it. This is the TRUEST form of altruism because it allows the beneficiary to decide what is good for themselves. It allows her to decide how to handle the truth and not have choices made for her.

 

I wonder how shocking it would be for most WHs when they discovered their BSs would dump them in a heartbeat for being treated like a charity case.

 

I'm only talking about MM who really don't love their Ws. If they do, and only state to the OW that they don't, then he has other reasons for staying (such as love) and is only having his cake and eating it too. Then the OW is better off if he never leaves his W.

 

I also wonder how many BWs would decide to stay after such an admission. It would be interesting to know.

 

 

WOW:eek:. This is so how I feel. I know if Mr. Messy had said that to me, he would have been out the door faster than he was in the first place. Who the hell wants to be a charity case. This reminds me of that Gov. Mark Sanford. What he said about his wife on national news...he would try to reconnect with her after he gave up his soul mate. She moved out of the Governor's mansion with her children. She didn't want to be the consolation prize, she wanted to be PRIZED above all others. Way to go WF.

[Devil Inside]

DI,

 

I have not read your posts or threads so forgive me in advance if I ask uninformed questions. You speak as though you might be a serial cheater. Am I wrong? If so, have you come close to finding 'the one'. If not, may I ask your age? Just give an approximate.

 

Thanks.

 

Was just in an A that ended. It was the only A I've ever had.

 

Have I found "the one." I don't know if that really exists. The closest I've felt to that was my xOW, however, I don't know if I trust my emotions...every woman I've been with seems like "the one" in the beginning.

 

I am in my mid thirties.

[Devil Inside]

[quote=Gamine;2335202

 

 

I know that I miss the intensity I had with my husband and if there were a way that I could snap my finger and get it all back I would in a heartbeat. But I also know that the number of men that I would need to satiate any desire for the 'in love' pursuit would be infinity. And that is not the life I choose.

 

So my quest is to find the love within myself that goes beyond the ego and the empty promises it brings to the table. And unlock the puzzle of how to keep excitement inside of the heart... not excitement purely of the flesh... but of the heart. Because if I can do that I have it all.

 

I agree. The first part is to have the awareness to see the pattern in ourselves. I feel great shame for putting my W and OW through the emotional torment I put them through to fill the hole in my soul left from childhood wounds.

 

Second, is the active choice to be a participant in a mature and realistic relationship. I too find serenity in the mature love that comes from a long term relationship or marriage. However, my demon seems to rear its ugly head when routine and boredom set in. I know I need to sit with this feeling as it is only masking pain.

 

Is this fair to my W and children...no. I know that. Was it fair to my xOW...no, she too deserved so much more than I could ever give her.

[Devil Inside]

Hey Jennie Jennie,

 

I went to the book store to find this book but they had nothing in print for Alberoni. Apparently, they are no longer being printed. I guess I'll have to look at Ebay or Amazon to find his books? I believe you did say you found your copy online, right?

 

Thanks,

WF.

 

You can read his books online for free. Just type his name into Google. I started reading a little when this post original came out. I will have to go back and read more later...he has an interesting perspective.

[jennie-jennie]

Hey Jennie Jennie,

 

I went to the book store to find this book but they had nothing in print for Alberoni. Apparently, they are no longer being printed. I guess I'll have to look at Ebay or Amazon to find his books? I believe you did say you found your copy online, right?

 

Thanks,

WF.

 

Yes, it is available online. I don't know if we are allowed to write links here though, but if you google "alberoni" and "sex and love" you will get there. You will find three interesting books there about love by Alberoni which you can download: SEX AND LOVE, I LOVE YOU and FALLING IN LOVE AND LOVING.

 

Have you checked the library? That is where I got my copies.

[jennie-jennie]

I think the thing to remember is that these MM still love their wives, although they are in love with their OW. So if they decide to stay with their wife because of a sense of duty, that is not telling the whole truth. They have stopped being in love with their wives, but they have not stopped loving them. To them the love and duty they feel towards their wife weighs heavier on the scale than their new found soulmate.

 

And then there are of course cake-eaters, who never truly loved their OW.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[jennie-jennie]

Was just in an A that ended. It was the only A I've ever had.

 

Have I found "the one." I don't know if that really exists. The closest I've felt to that was my xOW, however, I don't know if I trust my emotions...every woman I've been with seems like "the one" in the beginning.

 

I am in my mid thirties.

 

DI, to me there is a vast difference between serial monogamy and being in love with love which Gamine describes so well above. We did not originally live beyond our fourties, so how strange is it that our needs now with a longer life span change and we might need "a revolution" in our lives?

 

The question you need to ask yourself is which category do you belong to. The ones who seek the thrill of new love and who will have to go on seeking endlessly if they want to fulfill this desire or the ones who find their love relationship has run its life course and now it is time to move on?

[White Flower]

My impression from reading these boards and elsewhere is that there are cases where a WH stays for reasons other than love; but that in most cases the BW is well aware of this and it is actually a mutual thing. It is one thing to exist in a distant marriage while believing that one's H is faithful but after d-day it is quite another matter. Unless the WH is an exceptional actor or a total sociopath then faking it becomes almost impossible under the watchful eye of a BW.

 

This is a time of complete upheaval and I am sure that most BWs are totally devastated at d-day as they face the loss of the family life and marriage they beleived they had. Going by my H's reactions I would guess that for many of the MM it represents a huge upheaval too as he faces the loss of something that he's gone to so much trouble to preserve while in the A. And for those who have been in a A while never intending to leave their wives they have to fairly quickly put their money where their mouth is - ie either leave their wives for the OW or stay and discard the OW. A few do try to keep both, but I doubt very much that they can do it without the BW having at least some suspicion of it - and I suspect they are a particularly nasty sort of man anyway - I'm aware of the irony of me saying this given it's a rather nasty thing for a man to do to his W anyway.

 

I suspect that most OW who have been quickly discarded after d-day do not fully understand what is going on in the MM's home and the things he is doing to convince his wife that he really wants to be with her. I guess that most women such as myself do not want to be stayed with for the sake of the children. Certainly I didn't want my H to stay if he didn't want to be with me and believe me this was/is something he has to demonstrate to me every day. Not because I am a controlling bitch who won't give him up to the OW so he can be truly happy with her; but because my own world and self-esteem have been shattered, he has apologised profusely and told me it is what he wants (again I note the irony of this) and I have decided it is also what I want.

 

S

I understand the irony and you don't have to apologize for it. Both BW and OW love and forgive the MM and I suppose it is 'nasty' that he benefits from both parties; allows them to pour their hearts out on his shoulder maybe even on the same day. I shudder the thought yet realize it must have happened more than a few times.

 

Regarding the 'quickly disgarded OW', she knows very well what is going on at home. No details, of course, except for one: he chose the W. That is all she needs to know.

 

I for one am glad that you have made it clear to your WH that you demand sincerity on his part along with the duty. I could and would never stand for duty alone. That is not fair to him NOR me.

 

ExMM would say to me, 'If only I could wave a magic wand and she would be just fine [and friendly] I would have no problem leaving her.' Yet if she had a chance at hearing him say this and easily let him go, I couldn't help but wonder if HE could handle her taking it so well. My suspicion is he would be a little dismayed.

[White Flower]

WOW:eek:. This is so how I feel. I know if Mr. Messy had said that to me, he would have been out the door faster than he was in the first place. Who the hell wants to be a charity case. This reminds me of that Gov. Mark Sanford. What he said about his wife on national news...he would try to reconnect with her after he gave up his soul mate. She moved out of the Governor's mansion with her children. She didn't want to be the consolation prize, she wanted to be PRIZED above all others. Way to go WF.

My feelings on the governer is that he wanted the world to see him for his altruistic efforts and what happened? They saw right through it! He lost his W and kids and who knows if his OW ever forgave him. Most of us OW have anonymity; his OW has the whole world watching.

 

Mrs. Sanford deserves to live out the rest of her days with dignity. She doesn't need to be looked upon as a charity case. Gov. Sanford looked so foolish, as if saying, 'I'll give up my true love, my prized possession, my soul mate so I can reconnect with my wife. Until she dies. Then I'll go back to my soul mate. Yeah.'

 

Pulleeaase. Altruism my azz:sick:.

[White Flower]

Yes, it is available online. I don't know if we are allowed to write links here though, but if you google "alberoni" and "sex and love" you will get there. You will find three interesting books there about love by Alberoni which you can download: SEX AND LOVE, I LOVE YOU and FALLING IN LOVE AND LOVING.

 

Have you checked the library? That is where I got my copies.

Thank you Jennie-Jennie and Devil Inside. I'll download all the copies from the internet.

 

DI, I'm thinking you're still young. Of course, we all have a different path and mine is not yours, but take some time and keep pondering it. Seems like you're already doing a good job of that.

 

Jennie-Jennie, I'm so honored that you have quoted me in your signature. I'm blushing.

 

Thanks for a pensive thread!

[OW_WS]

And this is what I understand about myself as well. Hence my reluctance to chase the elusive rainbow. In time I would become bored with everyone. I know this about myself with certainty. I can find someone and have all of the excitement and newness but if I have them this aspect will certainly die. Perhaps this is the allure of the affair. The key may be in the 'not having'. Once an affair partner becomes spouse all of the old issues inside of us surface and we are back in a relationship again. Bills, garbage, needs, dinner, coming home late. You name it. It is as if the only way to have it is not to have it. Does that make any sense? I hope it does.

 

I was in love with love, not the day to day. For me once the day to day would kick in my 'in love' could last only a short while. And then I'm back to square one. This is my nature.

 

So I choose someone with whom I may enjoy a 'peaceable kingdom' with. With whom I might share a life including all of the day to day things and the deeper things. The rush of a love affair is like crystal meth. Long term relationships can be like comfort food. As long as we aren't chasing the elusive. The shadow we cannot hold onto. We can look at it, bask in it, but cannot have it.

 

I read once that the 'in love' feeling is like an aphrodisiac that mother nature builds into us in order to get us to settle down with a mate. What follows is the natural occurrence of this initial attraction waning and giving way to life.

 

Like you, I do not wish to spend the rest of my life alone eternally chasing my own tail. Perhaps there is a way to satisfy the ego without living an empty existence chasing desire that virtually has no end. There is no enduring way to satiate this appetite other than living from one partner to the next. But in so doing we lose bits and pieces of ourselves. Crumbs of who we were left behind all along the way. Encounter after encounter.

 

Or we can look upon it for what it is and see that life may not be intended to be just ice cream. Maybe we need the deeper things. Perhaps these are the only things that have any enduring value.

 

I know that I miss the intensity I had with my husband and if there were a way that I could snap my finger and get it all back I would in a heartbeat. But I also know that the number of men that I would need to satiate any desire for the 'in love' pursuit would be infinity. And that is not the life I choose.

 

So my quest is to find the love within myself that goes beyond the ego and the empty promises it brings to the table. And unlock the puzzle of how to keep excitement inside of the heart... not excitement purely of the flesh... but of the heart. Because if I can do that I have it all.

 

Oh my world is this spot on! This was truly worth re-reading -hence the quote-.

 

In a sense and to a degree or other, I think all of us thrill seekers, lovers-of-being-in-love struggle with the above at one point or another. I would presume to some it is not by far this well structured and laid out, to others the morals applied to the realization are different than to you and at the end of the day, reconciling what we know we want and need and what we can actually have and still sleep at night is what it's all about.

 

From talking to many MM and MW and even OM and OW (I'm both) it seems that detaching and compartmentalizing towards NSA sex A while still retaining the M intact is the closest solution to a quandry. But it's not the answer when the drug is being in love, the passion, the revolution and not the sexual thrill in itself, is it? It's even ironic to propose that a sexual relationship can fill in the need for the in-love feeling at a first glance. It's not entirely strange, the passion attached to sex, the excitement of something new, the immense amounts of attention coming with the A are all part of the "in-love" package albeit missing they key ingredient.

 

Gamine I don't know your story, have you cheated? If so by what I read above, it's over as you're so devoted to your M. If you never did then have you contemplated it strongly? Let me ask you something. Are you convinced there is enough determination behind you choosing the deeper things -note I did not say "duty" I don't believe it is that simple- that you would not go there if the promise of the intensity is strong enough (again)?

[Gamine]

Oh my world is this spot on! This was truly worth re-reading -hence the quote-.

 

In a sense and to a degree or other, I think all of us thrill seekers, lovers-of-being-in-love struggle with the above at one point or another. I would presume to some it is not by far this well structured and laid out, to others the morals applied to the realization are different than to you and at the end of the day, reconciling what we know we want and need and what we can actually have and still sleep at night is what it's all about.

 

From talking to many MM and MW and even OM and OW (I'm both) it seems that detaching and compartmentalizing towards NSA sex A while still retaining the M intact is the closest solution to a quandry. But it's not the answer when the drug is being in love, the passion, the revolution and not the sexual thrill in itself, is it? It's even ironic to propose that a sexual relationship can fill in the need for the in-love feeling at a first glance. It's not entirely strange, the passion attached to sex, the excitement of something new, the immense amounts of attention coming with the A are all part of the "in-love" package albeit missing they key ingredient.

 

Gamine I don't know your story, have you cheated? If so by what I read above, it's over as you're so devoted to your M. If you never did then have you contemplated it strongly? Let me ask you something. Are you convinced there is enough determination behind you choosing the deeper things -note I did not say "duty" I don't believe it is that simple- that you would not go there if the promise of the intensity is strong enough (again)?

 

Nope... I never cheated. I made this choice PRIOR to getting married and AFTER I had sown my wild oats.

 

I was chased, wined and dined, and lived an 'over the top' life. Until coming here on LS I had taken for granted that all all women had these experiences (at least to some degree) and frankly couldn't figure out why adult and middle aged women were still hung up on sexual affirmation. And as I read the posts and histories I have come to see that for many of them... they have never experienced being chased, pursued, lavished with attention and gifts. I don't want to come off as a jerk, but I received over the top affection and attention all of the time... so it no longer meant anything at all to me. A man would approach me and say... "Do you know how gorgeous you are..." in my teens I'd say... "no... Am I really?..." Then in my 20's it was 'expected' and their flattery, etc... was followed by a yawn.

 

So, the aphrodisiac fed me from the 'mirror, mirror on the wall... who's the fairest one of all"... doesn't exist as a lure.

 

I don't know whether affairs are supercharged between the AP's out of sexual inexperience or what. Or, the sex is really taking place between their ears...

 

It wasn't easy for me to transition from being what I lovingly call a 'butterfly' to being a 'normal' person. I married my husband because I never had any man with whom I 'clicked' so seamlessly... He was my friend, my lover, my intellectual companion and trust me I had enough experience to know what I was talking about. And, when I speak of experience I'm not talking about being sexually adventurous with bizarre sex stuff. I almost never paid for a drink when I went out, so I didn't bother bringing money. I almost never paid for dinner when going out with girlfriends because someone would pick up our tab. I came to almost expect it/anticipate it.

 

So all of the butterfly stuff of being in love with love became empty and boring. When I met my husband deeper things happened inside of my heart and I wanted only him. And have wanted only him ever since.

 

After my husband's affair I was hit like a tone of bricks. This certainly didn't coincide with my life experiences. 8 months after D'day I became sick and tired of his trickle truth and said 'okay... I've had enough'. Told him I was going to go my own way... posted a Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farms version of a profile on Match and received 60 emails inside of 12 hours. I showed him this and told him to tread very carefully with me. And, he has.

 

So for me I stick it out and remain faithful because 'I've been there, done that'. I'm not searching for male affirmation. I'm not searching for an amazing sex partner. I'm not searching at all. I stayed because I promised this person my devotion in sickness and in health and frankly... my guy was sick. Now, I am figuring out how we 'click' now... in the here and now.

 

I learned that the guy with the expensive car and the driver greeting me with champagne and flowers isn't my knight in shining armor. My knight is the one who goes to the store at 1 a.m. to get me cold medicine.

 

I hope my novelette makes some sense. I'm not searching for myself through others anymore. So affairs are meaningless to me.

 

I miss the 'being in love' feeling very much yet I know with certainty that it will evaporate in time. And when it does, what am I stuck with? The person behind the passion is the one you live with. So that is all I care about now...