What is considered Game playing?

[Hkizzle]

There are standard strategies each sex can use on each other that work, and they work because by understanding human psychology you can understand what raises your value in the other person's eyes.

 

But when is not being yourself game playing? What if you are naturally unattractive (say a needy guy) and need to change yourself artifically just to get a date started, and then slowly change back?

 

I've had female friends of mine tell me they refuse to not go with their feelings and do what comes natural because that's game playing. But if you're feelings are driving you to have sex with a guy too soon then that's still a bad strategy.

 

Also, I pointed out that if anything that is not natural is automatically game playing then women shouldn't apply make up, because it distorts how a woman really looks. When the guy sees the real person without make up he could be turned off.

 

So what is game playing? Seems like what constitutes game playing varies between individuals.

[BCCA]

Game playing, to me, is any intentional manipulations or acts which are solely intended to get a desired reaction out of someone. What exactly constitutes a game is not clearly defined, and everyone has their own idea.

 

No one wants to change, because that not only requires effort, and a trial and error period, but it also requires the person to admit that what they thought was the right thing to do, wasnt. Almost everyone I talk to in peer support groups, at work, etc. expects the world to change around them.

 

There is also the fact that what people like, and what they respond to, are not the same thing. Women say they like nice, funny, sweet guys, but they respond to arrogant, selfish, and cocky guys. Guys say they want women to be honest, but when they are, we call them b*****s for being mean.

[Hkizzle]

Game playing, to me, is any intentional manipulations or acts which are solely intended to get a desired reaction out of someone. What exactly constitutes a game is not clearly defined, and everyone has their own idea.

 

No one wants to change, because that not only requires effort, and a trial and error period, but it also requires the person to admit that what they thought was the right thing to do, wasnt. Almost everyone I talk to in peer support groups, at work, etc. expects the world to change around them. :love::sick:[[COLOR=#990000]More[/COLOR]]

 

There is also the fact that what people like, and what they respond to, are not the same thing. Women say they like nice, funny, sweet guys, but they respond to arrogant, selfish, and cocky guys. Guys say they want women to be honest, but when they are, we call them b*****s for being mean.

 

Yeah I like that. Most people that fail in whatever aspect of life do so because they don't want to change thmselves and expect the world to change.

 

Ok, so lets say a guy that couldn't attract women before modelled himself after arrogant and cocky guys in order to attract women. Would that be considered as game playing in your books since it's an intentional act? However if he doesn't do it, he can't attract anyone.

[BCCA]

No, I would consider that doing what is NECCESARY to garner a positive response. If he cant find someone by doing what he has in the past, than the common denominator is him. He is the one constant in all his failures, so to overlook the obvious writing on the wall in order to avoid change is futile.

 

Changing is not about doing something for 5 minutes to get a date, and then going right back to what doesnt work. Its about making a lasting change that will better your life.

 

I AM that guy who cant get a date, and am trying very hard to find ways to improve myself in that area. Im not trying to run a game on any of these girls, Im a sincere and honest guy. But being my normal self isnt working at all, so you have to make changes.

[Hkizzle]

Curious, what changes have you been making?

[Yamaha]

I think it's wrong to change yourself just to get a date. If someone wouldn't appreciate you if you didn't change yourself then is that someone you really should be dating?

I think the right person for you will appreciate you but we pick people based on physical attraction first and that governs our behavior. We value them and change to keep them around and usually this type of person will use you because they test you to see what they can get away with.

[Hkizzle]

I think it's wrong to change yourself just to get a date. If someone wouldn't appreciate you if you didn't change yourself then is that someone you really should be dating?

I think the right person for you will appreciate you but we pick people based on physical attraction first and that governs our behavior. We value them and change to keep them around and usually this type of person will use you because they test you to see what they can get away with.

 

The reason why I ask the question in the OP is because there's being yourself, and then there's not being attractive, and also being too lazy or proud to change those traits.

[BCCA]

I think it's wrong to change yourself just to get a date. If someone wouldn't appreciate you if you didn't change yourself then is that someone you really should be dating?

I think the right person for you will appreciate you but we pick people based on physical attraction first and that governs our behavior. We value them and change to keep them around and usually this type of person will use you because they test you to see what they can get away with.

 

Point taken, but you could be doing things that arent good for you that are also stopping you from getting dates. Most nice guy tendencies are counter productive, and work agains the guys self esteem. By doing things to raise ones self esteem, and prevent you from feeling helpless, you change for the positive.

 

If you are not meeting anyone, in a world full of single and attractive mates, you have to wonder why that is. Sure, there are a lot of weirdos, crazies, and douche's out there, but if youre just not meeting anyone normal that appreciates you for who you are, you probably arent being true to yourself anyway. Like I said, when the common denominator of your failed relationships is you, its time to think about why that might be. Im not saying its easy to find the love of your life in 5 minutes, but if you cant even find casual dates (like I cant) something about you isnt doing it for the ladies. I would rather swallow my pride, and give change a chance, than be alone and dateless, waiting for that 'right one' to show up.

 

Curious, what changes have you been making?

 

I resisted doing it for so long, but Im checking out a couple dating success books, and watching videos of how to approach women. Ive been trying little exercises to boost my self esteem, and tried to think positively about the rejections as well. I think you really learn so much more through failure than success, but often times we just whine to ourselves instead of trying to learn. Still a work in progress, but sitting on your hands gets you nowhere.

[DSM2709]

Good topic, you can ask my ex about game playing, she's been playing me for the past 4 to 5 months now. Come to think of it, I think she wrote the book on game playing...LOL!!! Sorry, I had to throw that in there.

[Thaddeus]

Women say they like nice, funny, sweet guys, but they respond to arrogant, selfish, and cocky guys. Guys say they want women to be honest, but when they are, we call them b*****s for being mean.

+1. Quoted for truth.

 

Also, game playing is called that for a reason: It takes two to play. A person always has a choice. They can respond to the game-playing or they can simply refuse to play.

 

There's a world of difference, however, between putting your best foot forward or making improvements to yourself and trying to manipulate someone through game-playing. I personally don't see dressing well or using makeup as game-playing at all. But things like trying to make the other person jealous, or insisting that the other partner always call or make the first move, or creating little 'chase-me' games, is game-playing. And it's infantile.

[AlektraClementine]

I held a lot of my true feelings (about things he was doing) from my fiance for a long time. Put up with things, so to speak. Made me miserable. He would tell me all the time, how he wanted for me to speak up, how he needed direction from time to time, how it's not healthy for me to bottle it up.

 

Well, I finally started speaking up. Especially since the proposal. For the most part, I get very irritable reactions and untruths when I speak up. We've been working on it, and it's progressing. Instead of telling him how his behavior makes me feel, I tell him what behavior I expect and which behaviors will make me leave him. He, as a man, seems to respond better to the black and white.

 

When (a lot of) men tell you they want honesty and your true feelings, they don't mean it.

[Thaddeus]

Well, I finally started speaking up. Especially since the proposal. For the most part, I get very irritable reactions and untruths when I speak up. We've been working on it, and it's progressing. Instead of telling him how his behavior makes me feel, I tell him what behavior I expect and which behaviors will make me leave him. He, as a man, seems to respond better to the black and white.

Exactly. Men, as a general rule, want clarity. We don't respond well, or at all, with hints or innuendo or subtle cues or games.

When (a lot of) men tell you they want honesty and your true feelings, they don't mean it.

I disagree. We (well, I can only speak for myself here, but I don't think my experience is much different than other men on the boards here) appreciate knowing how you're feeling and what you're thinking. We cannot read your mind. What we don't appreciate are hours and hours and hours of emotional ranting and talk-talk-talk without an action plan to fix whatever problem it is.

 

We're fixers. But just talking-talking-talking does nothing for us. It might help you vent and feel better, but at the end of the day the problem still exists unless someone takes charge and fixes it.

 

We like to know what the issue is and then we will do what we can to fix it. Fix the problem, the problem goes away, no more issue. Problem solved.

[OldBull]

So what is game playing? Seems like what constitutes game playing varies between individuals.

 

Adults are always playing games, because adults have a past, which therefore necessitates a mask to be worn in public. As the Bard put it, "The world is a stage"...

 

Young kids like yourself don't really have anything to hide, and thus you are wondering if putting on a mask is honest or dishonest. It's okay. In the end, everybody does it. In every area of life.

 

Now go barf yourself.

[BCCA]

I disagree. We (well, I can only speak for myself here, but I don't think my experience is much different than other men on the boards here) appreciate knowing how you're feeling and what you're thinking. We cannot read your mind. What we don't appreciate are hours and hours and hours of emotional ranting and talk-talk-talk without an action plan to fix whatever problem it is.

 

We're fixers. But just talking-talking-talking does nothing for us. It might help you vent and feel better, but at the end of the day the problem still exists unless someone takes charge and fixes it.

 

Exactly. I think most of the time, women just want to be heard, but for us guys - we just want to know how to fix the problem. I've noticed that most of the women really didnt want to FIX the problem, just point out that Ive done something wrong over and over.

[carhill]

I've noticed that most of the women really didnt want to FIX the problem, just point out that Ive done something wrong over and over.

 

They must like you

 

You'll know you've succeeded when you have a woman you can piss off no end and she vents to all her friends about what scum you are (of course not wanting to 'fix' anything), but still stays with you and is loyal.

 

Someday, I'll figure that game out. Maybe when I'm dead....

 

Seriously, IMO, anything calculated, postulated, and formulated in advance to secure a desired response or goal can be considered a 'game'. One can study 'game theory' and find remarkable application in human interpersonal relations.

 

I'm a game anarchist....

[You'reasian]

There is also the fact that what people like, and what they respond to, are not the same thing. Women say they like nice, funny, sweet guys, but they respond to arrogant, selfish, and cocky guys. Guys say they want women to be honest, but when they are, we call them b*****s for being mean.

 

Never called a woman a b**** for being honest, esp. if her delivery wasn't hostile.

[carhill]

When that honesty can be a two-way street, I'm 'game'

[BCCA]

Never called a woman a b**** for being honest' date=' [b']esp. if her delivery wasn't hostile[/b].

 

Well, thats just it. How often are they honest without being mean? Not really a whole lot, in my experience. They tend to go from hinting and inuendos to being a complete b**** until you get the point. Not really a lot of middle ground.

[Hkizzle]

Well, thats just it. How often are they honest without being mean? Not really a whole lot, in my experience. They tend to go from hinting and inuendos to being a complete b**** until you get the point. Not really a lot of middle ground.

 

Yeah it's either hinting and expecting us to read their minds or getting emotional.

 

Why not just be concise and unemotional?

[AlektraClementine]

Yeah it's either hinting and expecting us to read their minds or getting emotional.

 

Why not just be concise and unemotional?

 

The problem here HKizzle is that you're asking women to conform to a man's nature. That's all fine and good as long as men on an equal basis try to conform to a woman's nature.

 

We're not unemotional creatures. Quite the opposite. Why should we always be expected to translate those emotions so that a man can better understand them? Sometimes we'd like you guys to translate for yourselves.

 

Case in point - I speak my fiance's language sometimes. Sometimes he's speaks mine. Most frequently when the head butting has reached the "wall" place as we like to call it.

 

You can't just expect all women to give up their emotional nature and start speaking "dude" language. Otherwise, date dudes.

[AlektraClementine]

and trust me... your non-emotional, stare at the sky, mouth agape nature frustrates us just as much.

[Hkizzle]

Yeah I understand, and the natural differences between men and women and how they deal with problems create many of the problems we experience.

 

However I've had girls that deal with problems proactively, and girls that just shut down and expect me to read their mind. I've even had one girl say to me once that she hated men that couldn't read her mind.

 

That is just silly.

[You'reasian]

Well, thats just it. How often are they honest without being mean? Not really a whole lot, in my experience. They tend to go from hinting and inuendos to being a complete b**** until you get the point. Not really a lot of middle ground.

 

Just had a conversation with a lady friend about this topic. She's a level-headed woman, who doesn't have to be over the top to get her point across.

 

Some women do not communicate directly. Some do. Those that do and say what they want and need to say are never b*****, unless they come across resistance to what they are saying, which then becomes a debate. Guys do too.

 

Too often women build their frame of reference about men through round about ways. Instead of talking to a specific guy about the relevant issue, they go to Cosmo or a book written by a woman about men.

 

In addition, one guy doesn't have all the answers, because we guys are completely different from one another. Even our social groups are different from one another - a college fraternity is going to have different group think than a rock band which group thinks different than a university board which group think different than a crew of mechanics. Add to it, that some guys have interests in more than one social group. Then there are guys who are loners, who develop more self-formed personal beliefs and behaviors.

 

To sum it up, the more guy friends a woman has from different circles, the better scope she has about guy behavior.

[Thaddeus]

To sum it up' date=' the more guy friends a woman has from different circles, the better scope she has about guy behavior.[/quote']Oh, I don't know about that.

 

If a woman has a cluster of men in her orbit, you can bet your last dollar that each and every one of them wants to get into her pants.

 

Lots of women like the attention, they love lots of "guy friends" and enjoy what they do for her, mostly because it buffs up her ego, providing she doesn't have to do anything for them. These sorts of relationship are almost always highly one-sided. (And, on a brief side-note, if a woman with a bunch of guy friends milling around her insists that they're all 'just friends' and she thinks that none of them are drawn to her sexually, she's either deluded or in denial.)

 

Point is, any woman with men hovering around is being presented with a skewed demographic. Because of that, they won't be acting in a way that's independent of her influence.

 

So IMHO, I don't think your assertion that the more guy friends a woman has, the better insight she has into male behavior. Her source data isn't free of bias, therefore her conclusion won't be accurate, ESPECIALLY when it comes to game-playing.

[You'reasian]

Oh, I don't know about that.

 

If a woman has a cluster of men in her orbit, you can bet your last dollar that each and every one of them wants to get into her pants..

 

I'm comfortable with a woman having guy friends and if she's hot, that's true. However, I like to see how she behaves around them before I consider whether its worth a concern.

 

So IMHO, I don't think your assertion that the more guy friends a woman has, the better insight she has into male behavior. Her source data isn't free of bias, therefore her conclusion won't be accurate, ESPECIALLY when it comes to game-playing.

 

I suggested that she have guy friends from several circles, giving her a broad range of male behavior, rather than just one guy or one group.

 

This gives her better prospective then getting source data from cosmo or a book written by a woman, for instance, who can't understand why men go hunting.

 

BTW its nice being able to talk to women who speak their minds, even if we disagree. I'm enjoying it, taking Jersey Shortie for instance. Atleast, she's being honest about her opinions.