paddington bear Posted August 14, 2009 Posted August 14, 2009 I read a book recently that proposed the theory that whatever situation we have in life, that we've made it so - I don't know how this would related to some unforseen event like being kidnapped or something, so let's leave that aside - in terms of relationships or lack of them, we all have got what we wanted due to our actions in the past. So, if you're in a bad relationship now, instead of looking at what's wrong with your partner, you look at yourself and think 'I wanted this, I wanted this person and this situation. I made this so through my actions' - likewise if you're in a good relationship. This really got me thinking. I have been single for years, and during that time I never thought 'I want to be single' and yet, I was so closed to men, to dating, scared s***less that I was going to get severely hurt once again and looking back, much as I said I wanted a boyfriend, I don't know if I really was giving out 'I'm open and available' vibes and hence I got what I wanted which was to isolate myself from men and have no dates. I then got into another 'I just want to be friends' unrequited love situation which has ended rather horribly and broken my heart into smithereens. But looking back, I wonder, I mean, I could have simply said 'no, I'm looking for a boyfriend', but I didn't. I got what I wanted, to hang around waiting for some guy to realise my value and all the heartache that comes with that. Likewise, I now, for the first time in my life have 'a lover'. And again I think 'well, he is just what I needed now, nothing too serious, no total emotional heart-wrenching involvement', so again, I brought into my life what I needed now. Maybe at some point this man won't be enough any more and I will want the total emotional connection too and maybe I'll get what I want then, either to be alone rather than have a non-fulfilling relationship, or to meet someone who fulfills what I need at that point in time. Anyone agree or disagree with this? That we are the makers of our own destiny? Or does where you live and simple bad luck have more of a role to play, and ultimately we have no control over our love lives?
northstar1 Posted August 14, 2009 Posted August 14, 2009 Do you mean are we in control of our own fate? As opposed to some grand plan for us from a higher power?
Thaddeus Posted August 14, 2009 Posted August 14, 2009 Well, it's not a binary choice - that is, fate vs complete control over one's life. It's a mixture of the two (though I hesitate to suggest that there's anything like 'fate'... there isn't). For instance, you cannot control anything about how another person thinks or feels, but you can control how you choose to respond to them. You cannot control the weather or the economy, but you can control your reaction to them.
Trialbyfire Posted August 14, 2009 Posted August 14, 2009 I agree in general, that people are where they put themselves. Life's full of millions of forks in the road, some with more serious implications and others with less. We each make our own choices, including being passive and making no choice, allowing others to affect us too little or too much.
Citizen Drawn Posted August 14, 2009 Posted August 14, 2009 How does the author defend that theory? The problem is the term "want". If we all got what we wanted that would mean we're unconstrained by external influence and resources are abundant.
loveslife Posted August 14, 2009 Posted August 14, 2009 I think that our relationships are a reflection of us. For instance, we couldn't exist in a relationship with an emotionally unavailable person if we ourselves are emotionally available. It just wouldn't work. So, in that way I do believe we get what we "ask for." I used to say that I wanted a healthy, happy relationship. I desperately wanted that. But the truth was that I did not know how to co-exist in a healthy, happy relationship. It was that unfamiliar to me. I lacked the skills. I'm getting closer as I learn. So, setting about improving ourselves is really the way to go. IMO.
Soul Bear Posted August 14, 2009 Posted August 14, 2009 I think that our relationships are a reflection of us. For instance, we couldn't exist in a relationship with an emotionally unavailable person if we ourselves are emotionally available. It just wouldn't work. So, in that way I do believe we get what we "ask for." I used to say that I wanted a healthy, happy relationship. I desperately wanted that. But the truth was that I did not know how to co-exist in a healthy, happy relationship. It was that unfamiliar to me. I lacked the skills. I'm getting closer as I learn. So, setting about improving ourselves is really the way to go. IMO. Kudos for honesty. That's a valuable post:cool:
SoulSearch_CO Posted August 14, 2009 Posted August 14, 2009 Yes, Paddington - I agree with said author - that we create the things in our life that we desire to experience. I wasn't a victim of my bad marriage - I called it forth. There were things I deserved to learn, and I certainly did. I don't regret it for a second. I'm grateful for every lesson that comes into my life - even if I may curse it at first. Because in the end, I always learn more about myself and grow stronger.
loveslife Posted August 14, 2009 Posted August 14, 2009 Kudos for honesty. That's a valuable post:cool: Thanks Soul Bear. I've had to face some pretty harsh realities lately about choices I've made. One thing I've decided is it's never about the other person. It always is about us, our choices, how we feel about ourselves.
loveslife Posted August 14, 2009 Posted August 14, 2009 Yes, Paddington - I agree with said author - that we create the things in our life that we desire to experience. I wasn't a victim of my bad marriage - I called it forth. There were things I deserved to learn, and I certainly did. I don't regret it for a second. I'm grateful for every lesson that comes into my life - even if I may curse it at first. Because in the end, I always learn more about myself and grow stronger. SoulSearch, I think that's well said. We're all given the chance to learn with each relationship - whether the relationship works or not. Where we trip ourselves up, I believe, is when we look at ourselves as victims of the relationship. Not true. We're just learning, learning to define who we are and what we want.
Phateless Posted August 14, 2009 Posted August 14, 2009 I read a book recently that proposed the theory that whatever situation we have in life, that we've made it so - I don't know how this would related to some unforseen event like being kidnapped or something, so let's leave that aside - in terms of relationships or lack of them, we all have got what we wanted due to our actions in the past. So, if you're in a bad relationship now, instead of looking at what's wrong with your partner, you look at yourself and think 'I wanted this, I wanted this person and this situation. I made this so through my actions' - likewise if you're in a good relationship. This really got me thinking. I have been single for years, and during that time I never thought 'I want to be single' and yet, I was so closed to men, to dating, scared s***less that I was going to get severely hurt once again and looking back, much as I said I wanted a boyfriend, I don't know if I really was giving out 'I'm open and available' vibes and hence I got what I wanted which was to isolate myself from men and have no dates. I then got into another 'I just want to be friends' unrequited love situation which has ended rather horribly and broken my heart into smithereens. But looking back, I wonder, I mean, I could have simply said 'no, I'm looking for a boyfriend', but I didn't. I got what I wanted, to hang around waiting for some guy to realise my value and all the heartache that comes with that. Likewise, I now, for the first time in my life have 'a lover'. And again I think 'well, he is just what I needed now, nothing too serious, no total emotional heart-wrenching involvement', so again, I brought into my life what I needed now. Maybe at some point this man won't be enough any more and I will want the total emotional connection too and maybe I'll get what I want then, either to be alone rather than have a non-fulfilling relationship, or to meet someone who fulfills what I need at that point in time. Anyone agree or disagree with this? That we are the makers of our own destiny? Or does where you live and simple bad luck have more of a role to play, and ultimately we have no control over our love lives? Paddington - From your posts in my threads I think you are brilliant, and I think that you are really onto something. The concept you are describing is what I have always believed, and what others mistakenly label "Karma." I believe we create our own reality through the way we treat others and set up our own lives and situations to match our internal state through a series of subtle and often subconscious actions, choices and mindsets. I often think about the things I did early on in this relationship to recreate my last one and how I wish I could escape those early mistakes to transition into what I know this relationship could have been. I don't know if it's possible anymore. Maybe I was just having such a hard time with the idea of not being single anymore that I sabotaged this relationship so I could be single again? I strongly doubt that, but I suppose it's possible. I have no idea. Honestly, I think in the beginning I did recreate my last relationship to win the old situation and make it right for validation, but now that I want this relationship to be good on it's own, the patterns are already in place and I'm not sure it's possible to change anymore. Paddington - would you mind linking this article? I'd be fascinated to read it.
loveslife Posted August 14, 2009 Posted August 14, 2009 The concept you are describing is what I have always believed, and what others mistakenly label "Karma." I believe we create our own reality through the way we treat others and set up our own lives and situations to match our internal state through a series of subtle and often subconscious actions, choices and mindsets. Yes, our relationships reflect who we are inside. Someone who cannot show respect for others lacks respect for themself. Someone who cannot be honest with another is unable to be honest with themself. So, if we're pulling to us dishonest relationships with dishonourable people it's because that is our own relationship with ourself.
Citizen Drawn Posted August 14, 2009 Posted August 14, 2009 Reverse causation often features in these types of psuedoscientic arguments - basketball players are tall, therefore basketball makes you tall. You're in an unhappy relationship therefore you wanted an unhappy relationship. I doubt anyone in an unhappy marriage wanted one, they probably wanted a lifelong companion that would be there for them a lot more than they wanted a divorce.
loveslife Posted August 14, 2009 Posted August 14, 2009 Either that or we just can't help it if we're not attracted to someone.
New Again Posted August 14, 2009 Posted August 14, 2009 I pretty much agree. I now consciously seek out what I want, and act accordingly; I think I've always done this, but not consciously when I was younger. It would suck to feel so helpless - that is, if you didn't believe you had any control over your life, situation, etc. Kinda like Thad said - you can't control everything, but you can control how you react.
HeadlessZebra Posted August 14, 2009 Posted August 14, 2009 I don't entirely agree that everything we get is because we "asked for it". Take for example the following situation: A girl meets a guy and he acts like the perfect man - attentive, loving and wonderful. She gets hooked into him. She falls in love. A few months down the line, he starts showing his true colors, but she's already hooked in by the oxytocin, the memories of what it used to be and whatnot. She wants to realize he's not what she thought, that he's really a cold, distant and heartless wretch, but she wistfully waits for it to go back to "the way it was". She fell in love and is too attached already to just up and let it go. She's sure that, given enough time and the right situation, he'll revert to his initial wonderfulness. Are you telling me she secretly wanted a cold, distant and heartless wretch? That she "asked for it"? Don't be ridiculous!
Phateless Posted August 14, 2009 Posted August 14, 2009 Reverse causation often features in these types of psuedoscientic arguments - basketball players are tall, therefore basketball makes you tall. You're in an unhappy relationship therefore you wanted an unhappy relationship. I doubt anyone in an unhappy marriage wanted one, they probably wanted a lifelong companion that would be there for them a lot more than they wanted a divorce. This is a very good point. To clarify, I think it's more about unwittingly being attracted to what feels familiar and thereby going for the same type of person or same type of situation and accidentally setting yourself up for failure and repeating your own mistakes. Does that make sense? It's about the tension between being rational and emotional. There was an article about what we do to shoot ourselves in the foot when attempting to change and it focuses on why we subconsciously and actively prevent the change we seek. I guess the argument is that some part of us wanted the situation we are in and thereby sought it out, attempted to create it, or were unwittingly attracted to it because of some need to overcome previous drama. Make sense?
Citizen Drawn Posted August 14, 2009 Posted August 14, 2009 Either that or we just can't help it if we're not attracted to someone. Two people get married aged 22. One persons marriage breaks down the others doesn't. Did one want a long term marriage and not the other? Of course not. You can control what you're attracted to, but that doesn't mean it's going to lead to the relationship you WANT. You just have to take your best guess based on previous experience and hope that it lasts.
HeadlessZebra Posted August 14, 2009 Posted August 14, 2009 "Everyone gets what they secretly were looking for" is as much magical thinking as "karma" and "God works in mysterious ways".
Citizen Drawn Posted August 14, 2009 Posted August 14, 2009 This is a very good point. To clarify, I think it's more about unwittingly being attracted to what feels familiar and thereby going for the same type of person or same type of situation and accidentally setting yourself up for failure and repeating your own mistakes. Does that make sense? It's about the tension between being rational and emotional. There was an article about what we do to shoot ourselves in the foot when attempting to change and it focuses on why we subconsciously and actively prevent the change we seek. I guess the argument is that some part of us wanted the situation we are in and thereby sought it out, attempted to create it, or were unwittingly attracted to it because of some need to overcome previous drama. Make sense? Yes, that does make sense, and I think this is aligned with my point about taking your best guess on previous experience. You had a relationship breakdown, you learn and try not to choose those same things, and find the reason why you chose those things. The problem is, even then, because it's a two way partnership, you can't control the other person or what is going to influence them over the duration. So even though you took your best shot, a couple of years down the line you may have found that things have changed. This is why I debate the word "want". It's more like "you are with a partner you have chosen based upon a number of factors".
Author paddington bear Posted August 17, 2009 Author Posted August 17, 2009 Hi all, I wrote that post, then forgot to check back! In reply to some of them, I think the getting what you want bit, might not be all that conscious, it is more in retrospect that you can look back and think 'maybe I brought some of this on myself'. I think Phateless sums it up exactly when he said "To clarify, I think it's more about unwittingly being attracted to what feels familiar and thereby going for the same type of person or same type of situation and accidentally setting yourself up for failure and repeating your own mistakes." And Zebra: "A girl meets a guy and he acts like the perfect man - attentive, loving and wonderful. She gets hooked into him. She falls in love. A few months down the line, he starts showing his true colors, but she's already hooked in by the oxytocin, the memories of what it used to be and whatnot. She wants to realize he's not what she thought, that he's really a cold, distant and heartless wretch, but she wistfully waits for it to go back to "the way it was". She fell in love and is too attached already to just up and let it go. She's sure that, given enough time and the right situation, he'll revert to his initial wonderfulness. Are you telling me she secretly wanted a cold, distant and heartless wretch? That she "asked for it"?" See...this is what I used to think like. I would wonder why every man, no matter how diverse and from what background somehow ended up being very much the same and I've come to think that maybe, just maybe it's not to do with them, but with me. If you think of others merely reacting to you and what you are putting out, then you will get back what you think you deserve. If you keep having repeat patterns going on with relationships and other things, if you keep doing the same things, you will get what you always got, because you are always acting in the same way. So, if to use the example above, you meet a guy who is sweet and nice, and then stops being so, you can either think 'oh here we go again' and just hang around and hope for things to change, like you're used to (like I used to ), or think 'right, boundary crossed' and let go of him and this time do something different - that's what I mean regarding 'getting what you want'. If you hang on in there hoping for he or she to return to what they were, you are actually getting what you want, to spend your time hoping that someone else will change and being dissatisfied. And in fact the initially nice, attentive guy, might have become less attentive due to your own insecurity, or neediness, or that you show him through your own actions that you are ok with his behaviour. Phateless, it wasn't an article, it was a book...and I'm embarrassed to repeat the title here, because it sounds so cheesy, but I bought it after reading reviews on Amazon, basically, it's pretty useful life coaching advice masquerading as a 'how to get dates' book, the advice within however, could be applied to any aspect of your life as a lot of the reviewers said, which is why I bought it and I found to be true - I guess a lot of what was written many might say has been said before, but sometimes it's how that advice is presented, that makes it finally get into your head and this one, for some reason hit a nerve (in a good way!!). http://www.amazon.com/Make-Every-Man-Want-You/dp/0071597816/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1250548897&sr=1-1
juliebijoux Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 I disagree with the idea that what you put out there is what people react to. Sometimes the terrifying thought is that we will never ever know what someone else is thinking or why they do the things they do. A lot of problems stem from the fact that I (and others too) forget that everyone else in the world has a life that is just real as yours. (I read that in Atonement) Therefore, I have found that it is best for me to find ways to concentrate on having a better relationship more assertive and confident in myself because I am the only one that I can actually control. If I'm not feeling confident in myself I act jealous in relationships with family and friends, and I do poorly in school and work. Wanted to add that it doesn't always work with total success, and it has taken me a loooonnng time to build up my confidence. I still have times where I feel completely damaged and out of control, but now I am able to not let those moments last so long.
Trialbyfire Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 Let's use an example. You walk into a room feeling like a million bucks about yourself, for whatever reason, not feeling the least bit self-conscious, restrained or grumpy. Consider it a venue you're comfortable in. Do you find that people are more drawn to you or not?
Author paddington bear Posted August 17, 2009 Author Posted August 17, 2009 Let's use an example. You walk into a room feeling like a million bucks about yourself, for whatever reason, not feeling the least bit self-conscious, restrained or grumpy. Consider it a venue you're comfortable in. Do you find that people are more drawn to you or not? Yes I do and that has happened, the difference between that and other times where I've had my mind on something/someone else and then think 'no man flirted with me, I'm invisible' but then friends point out all the people there checking me out, but I was totally closed to it.
Trialbyfire Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 Yes I do and that has happened, the difference between that and other times where I've had my mind on something/someone else and then think 'no man flirted with me, I'm invisible' but then friends point out all the people there checking me out, but I was totally closed to it.Absolutely. You're open, receptive, confident and positive. You draw people in! Come on, the rest of you, you can take over a room if you work it and believe in yourselves.
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