Ladies - Would you date a guy who couldn't defend you in a fight?

[wuggle]

there's no point in visiting this site anymore.

 

I'm sort of with you there, I came to this site for some tough debate, possibly to learn some stuff and maybe (if lucky) to help people having a crap time (as others helped us). Just seems to be constant stupidity and bickering these days, close to calling it quits. I think I will go away for a few weeks then see if it has got any better.

[northstar1]

In truth, I'll be fighting with my guy lol. He fights-I'm in. That means he better not fight. I'm not good at all.

 

One of the best posts I've seen lately.

[carhill]

Lizzie, I gotta say I'd fight for that ass

 

TGIF...

[FleshNBones]

I hear you... I just wanted to know whether an intelligent approach to avoiding conflict would trigger your primal respect as much as an adrenaline-charged confrontation...

 

When I'm in an environment where there is any possibility of a threat or unknowns, I'm outwardly relaxed, but highly alert, observant and taking in and processing all inputs, thinking ahead, kind of automatically planning 'what if' scenarios all along the way. I don't think that my family necessarily even notices (certainly not the kids...) but I'll shift my position in the group, change our path slightly, etc. in response to the environment, and to me, that feels exactly like "being protective." Optimum success to me isn't winning a fight, it's avoiding it in the first place.

Avoiding trouble is very wise. The last thing a troublemaker wants is a fair fight. Even if you do win, there is the possibility of that person will press charges. Let's weigh the potential consequences.

 

Getting into a fight.

1. Getting physically injured if not killed. Troublemakers want to hurt people, and the last thing they want to do is fight fair. Concealed weapons anyone? If his buddy sticks you in the back with a knife, it is game over. Bruce Lee never stopped a bullet.

2. Facing criminal charges. There is some potential prison time here, and it will cost me some $$$$$. If you have a career, you probably won't have it much longer. If you do get incarcerated, you will probably run into guys far more violent than the ones who landed you there in the first place.

 

Avoid a fight.

1. Lose the respect of a woman. Let's face it, a troublemaker won't respect you win or lose.

 

Win a fight. (Conditions for victory)

* First you need to avoid death and serious injury. How many women would want you if you became maimed or paralyzed? If you are dead, she will just look for some else to die for her. Like I said, troublemakers usually don't fight fair.

* You need to avoid incarceration, and legal entanglement in general. Let's face it, she probably won't be around or loyal for very long if you are incarcerated.

* You don't go broke through the legal system assuming it is used. Love seems to come with a price tag.

 

 

The risk of things going horribly wrong are just too great when it comes to fighting.

 

 

Why should I die while pushing you out of the way of that moving vehicle? Couldn't you just look both ways before crossing the street? Is this social Darwinism at work?

[Lizzie60]

Lizzie, I gotta say I'd fight for that ass

 

TGIF...

 

 

Hahaha... no one had to fight for it..

 

There is a lot of bickering on the thread but I have to agree..that women, being 5'0 - 5'6.. can't defend themselves physically against any 'beef'.. so we have to expect our men to jump on the said beef and beat the crap out of him .. to say that we can defend ourselves physically is booullshheet..

[Trialbyfire]

Like I said earlier (echoing Carhill): situational awareness, threat analysis, and preemptive avoidance...

I didn't disagree with either yourself or carhill, but I'd be lying to say, I don't expect my man to protect me, in whatever way possible.

[carhill]

TBF, that (protecting you in whatever way possible) is the essence of situational awareness, IMO. The goal is to achieve the desired outcome with as little input and risk as possible. Efficiency of perception and action.

[Starshine Black]

Lol @ chivalry. It's dead.

[Thornton]

I have mixed views on the situation. I dislike violence unless it's absolutely necessary in self defence, and I wouldn't be impressed with a guy who got into fights all the time. If someone is rude to me I can handle it. If some guy squeezes my ass I'm more than capable of humiliating him at the top of my voice. And let's face it - if I give a guy a slap for feeling me up he's unlikely to retaliate, whereas if my bf hit him there'd be a huge fight - not to mention that if I was arguing with a girl my bf couldn't exactly step in and smack her one!

 

However I still feel that a man should be somewhat protective of his partner. I wouldn't be impressed with a cowardly guy who didn't stand up for himself and me when necessary - and only when necessary, only in self defence or in defence of me when I couldn't handle things and he couldn't defuse the situation and walk away. I'm thinking more of a guy who is protective in extreme situations, who can protect me from muggers and burglars and so on, who is strong enough to carry me out of a burning building, and who can keep me safe if a situation escalates beyond my control. I would always prefer him to deal with the situation in a non-violent way if possible, but equally I'd expect him to protect me if he really had to. I'm as modern as the next woman, but unfortunately I have to admit that there are physiological differences between men and women - in general men are simply bigger and stronger. If some guy attacked me I might not be strong enough to fight him off, but I'd expect that my bf would be.

[Trialbyfire]

TBF, that (protecting you in whatever way possible) is the essence of situational awareness, IMO. The goal is to achieve the desired outcome with as little input and risk as possible. Efficiency of perception and action.

As I said, I don't disagree with you. Where our agreement might or might not end, is if with a 1% chance, the unavoidable happened and physical violence is required. Would you stand up for your woman?

[The Collector]

I don't mind a fight sometimes. I've had fights with some silly sod when they pinched my gfs arse or something. Avoid trouble if possible but don't be a pussy, that's my motto.

[carhill]

Would you stand up for your woman?

She (my stbx) is not my woman anymore, but, yes, I have, physically. Only on a couple of occasions have I done so, but I suffer such disrespect poorly. If other avenues fail, I have and will use my skills to effect the goal I seek. I've also done similar for female friends, but nothing physical or violent has been necessary. Like I said, only a last resort when all other avenues fail. I'm non-violent at heart.

[Trialbyfire]

Then we agree, carhill. I don't idealize scrappers, the man who flies off the physical handle at any provocation, but if someone were to grab a private body part of mine, I would expect that my man would take care of the problem.

 

Even in a verbal disagreement, I will admit that something primal inside of me sits up, when my man takes care of business whether it's male or female.

[EddieN]

Avoid trouble if possible but don't be a pussy, that's my motto.

 

Amen.

 

This is the order of how I handle a guy being a douche:

 

1) Laugh and try to make whatever he said seem like a harmless joke (I might skip this step if it's something really offensive and mean or is directed at someone else besides me). If he's still being a douche, go to step 2:

 

2) Use wit to try to make him feel like a fool for what he's saying, but still laugh and smile. Let him know that you're not going to let him **** with you but you're not going to take him seriously just yet. If this fails...

 

3) Use intimidation. If the guy is still picking on you or a friend or girlfriend, then he's probably just looking for a fight to show his manliness. You can change his mind if you show him you're tough and not afraid to face him. Most likely he's just used to beating up 7th graders for their lunch money and hasn't come face to face with a guy who isn't afraid. If he throws the first punch or makes a significant attack, then...

 

4) Kick his douchebag ass.

[clv0116]

Amen.

 

This is the order of how I handle a guy being a douche:

 

1) Laugh and try to make whatever he said seem like a harmless joke (I might skip this step if it's something really offensive and mean or is directed at someone else besides me). If he's still being a douche, go to step 2:

 

2) Use wit to try to make him feel like a fool for what he's saying, but still laugh and smile. Let him know that you're not going to let him **** with you but you're not going to take him seriously just yet. If this fails...

 

3) Use intimidation. If the guy is still picking on you or a friend or girlfriend, then he's probably just looking for a fight to show his manliness. You can change his mind if you show him you're tough and not afraid to face him. Most likely he's just used to beating up 7th graders for their lunch money and hasn't come face to face with a guy who isn't afraid. If he throws the first punch or makes a significant attack, then...

 

4) Kick his douchebag ass.

 

5) Discover he or his idiot friend have a Smith & Wesson in their pocket and bleed out while help is stuck in traffic.

[silverfish]

The problem is that by reacting to the provocation you are giving the person what they want - a fight...

 

I have dealt with many situations in my line of work that involved aggressive, drunk, or mentally ill people looking for trouble. In most cases I dealt with the problem by looking them in the eye, telling them to leave, not yelling, remaining calm, and telling them the police were on the way.

 

One time my ex got involved by physically trying to get the guy out, it turned into a fist fight, and someone had a glass shoved in their face. All it takes with someone that fired up is physical contact to get them started...it can be a poke, or a hand on the arm, anything. They see that as an excuse to start on you. Best thing is to stand your ground and try and stare them down. They may shout, insult, get in your face etc, but rarely will a man throw a punch or physically attack a woman they don't know.

 

I think that people generally (society) turning a blind eye to violent situations is a major problem. I would always step in and help someone in trouble, not physically, but as a safety in numbers thing.

 

People seem to think it's a case of fight or flight, but there is a better way of dealing with confrontation, by being assertive and anyone can do that.

 

I know there are limitations of physical strength, but sometimes a man getting into a fight can make your situation as a woman worse in my experience

[Odyssey]

Unfortunately having met many morons over the years, i can tell you right now, the stand-up-puff-up-your-chest & shouting-back-response (in hope of showing how tough you are) is the the best way to guarantee a fight. But that's what most people think is the best way to handle someone getting in your face. Or worst diplomacy without the force to back it up is useless.

 

Most of the time it's better to swallow pride than blood.

[clv0116]

The best way to defuse a situation in my experience is often to simply turn my face a little toward my date while still watching the threat and say "we need 911 now".

 

It's amazing how reasonable people can get.

[Trimmer]

As I said, I don't disagree with you. Where our agreement might or might not end, is if with a 1% chance, the unavoidable happened and physical violence is required. Would you stand up for your woman?

I think it's a very small group of men who, if they were backed into a corner and physical violence was required, would turn tail and run, saving themselves, leaving their woman in danger.

 

However, I am still not sure of the subtle implications of your wording. You call this "standing up for your woman" - that sounds like you are looking for chivalry, underscored by your "lovestruck" emoticon below.

 

If there's truly no way out, if you are in imminent danger of physical harm, then it's not about "standing up for you," it's about taking the regrettable path of applying the force needed to prevent you both from harm.

 

 

Then we agree, carhill. I don't idealize scrappers, the man who flies off the physical handle at any provocation, but if someone were to grab a private body part of mine, I would expect that my man would take care of the problem.

 

Even in a verbal disagreement, I will admit that something primal inside of me sits up, when my man takes care of business whether it's male or female.

Now again here, I find your wording vague, and only because I'm trying to understand the threshold of what you expect (your word...) Let me ask this: if a dope in a bar gropes a boob or your ass, once he lets go, what problem needs to be "taken care of" - what "business" needs to be taken care of - by getting physical (that's the context of your comment, juxtaposed as it is against the fact that you don't idealize the guy who "flies off the physical handle at any provocation, but....")

 

I'm not saying that grabbing your body is OK, or that it's not a problem. I'm just trying to understand in more detail: you got grabbed and now the 3 of you are standing there looking at each other (and probably the guy's buddies/backup, as others have pointed out.) What does your SO's next move need to be to keep/gain your respect? Does he need to get physical to "teach the guy a lesson," to prove to you that he's man enough to do that? If he simply stares the guy down, and turns you away, maybe putting himself between you and the guy as you turn, does that seem like tucking his tail between his legs and running?

 

For me, there's a dividing line between that 1% you talk about above of being cornered with imminent harm coming your way and no remaining options, and the idea of "teaching someone a lesson," "standing up for me," "showing them they can't get away with something," "not being a pussy" (as Collector said) "putting them in their place," or simply being "chivalrous" (as Starshine Black complained is dead.) And that's why I'm wondering how you "expect" him to "take care of business" after being grabbed that will leave you , assuming it doesn't leave one or more people in the hospital or jail, of course. (Or is that too, as long as it's the other guy?)

 

Would you lose all respect for him if he just turned you around and you walked away together?

[Trialbyfire]

I think it's a very small group of men who, if they were backed into a corner and physical violence was required, would turn tail and run, saving themselves, leaving their woman in danger.

I agree.

 

However, I am still not sure of the subtle implications of your wording. You call this "standing up for your woman" - that sounds like you are looking for chivalry, underscored by your "lovestruck" emoticon below.

 

If there's truly no way out, if you are in imminent danger of physical harm, then it's not about "standing up for you," it's about taking the regrettable path of applying the force needed to prevent you both from harm.

Handling someone, is putting them into their place which means "hands off", however he chooses to do it. Chivalry doesn't have to include physical violence but can include it, if he feels it's necessary. I'm not going to second-guess what my man feels is appropriate.

What does your SO's next move need to be to keep/gain your respect? Does he need to get physical to "teach the guy a lesson," to prove to you that he's man enough to do that?

Not necessarily. Refer to above response.

If he simply stares the guy down, and turns you away, maybe putting himself between you and the guy as you turn, does that seem like tucking his tail between his legs and running?

No it doesn't. That's enough for me, in that it let's the other guy know it's hands off and not to do it again. Referring to my ex-H's actions, even if the guy had buddies, he dominated by physical presence and palpable aggression.

Would you lose all respect for him if he just turned you around and you walked away together?

Firstly, it would be stupid to turn our backs to someone aggressive. If you're going to walk away, do it so they can't jump you from behind, which is the way cowards will react, especially when liquored up. I'm fine with walking away if the situation warrants it.

[clv0116]

I think it's a very small group of men who, if they were backed into a corner and physical violence was required, would turn tail and run, saving themselves, leaving their woman in danger.

 

Agreed.

 

 

 

 

For me, there's a dividing line between that 1% you talk about above of being cornered with imminent harm coming your way and no remaining options, and the idea of "teaching someone a lesson," "standing up for me," "showing them they can't get away with something," "not being a pussy" (as Collector said) "putting them in their place," or simply being "chivalrous" (as Starshine Black complained is dead.) And that's why I'm wondering how you "expect" him to "take care of business" after being grabbed that will leave you , assuming it doesn't leave one or more people in the hospital or jail, of course. (Or is that too, as long as it's the other guy?)

 

Yup. People talk big but in the end it's better to walk away, call 911, or do what it takes to avoid a bullet/knife/gang-beating. And 1% is terribly generous.

[Art_Critic]

Ladies - Would you date a guy who couldn't defend you in a fight?

There are a lot of situations that women can find themselves in, ranging from being groped/touched by some idiot in a bar to rape. How many of you ladies feel that, when push comes to shove, the man needs to step up and protect you?

 

Men - your opinions on the subject are equally welcomed!

 

Honestly.. if a women needs defending for a grope in a bar then I would look for a more drama free woman..

 

Also.. Who says a woman needs any defending at all unless of course her life is threatened or there is some domestic disturbance ?

 

I'm as much of a gentleman as you can get and I wouldn't fight someone if some guy groped my girl/wife in a bar..

I would give him a piece of my mind and then both of us ( girl and I ) would exit the situation without any fighting..

Fighting would just lead to jail and assault charges being filed and if the girl got off on that then she needs more help then just defending..

 

IMO.. fighting for those type of reasons goes along with being childish and not grown up and only leads to more problems then they resolve..

 

Now. if my wife or child's life was in danger then look out... but of course removing them from the danger would be my highest priority and not punching someone in the face.

[sally4sara]

Now. if my wife or child's life was in danger then look out... but of course removing them from the danger would be my highest priority and not punching someone in the face.

 

Here you bring up where I think maybe it can be put into perspective for some women.

 

Ladies, if you were walking through a parking garage with your 12/14ish year old kid and there was an unruly group of guys trying to get a reaction out of you, would you really need to make an issue so your child would feel you were not a coward? You are the comparatively stronger person of your current couple.......

 

I know I would just get my kid out of the situation calmly and quickly as possible.

[dunstable]

A real man would defend his date. Indeed, he would defend anyone who was being victimized. Equally, a real woman would do the same.

 

I remember how a now ex-wife fled one time when I was threatened with attack. I remember how I was mugged in the presence of a male colleague who made no attempt to defend me.

 

I think anyone, male or female, who doesn't defend other human beings from unjustified attack is contemptible. I would go without hesitation to the aid of another person, male or female, who was at risk of an unjustified assault.

[FleshNBones]

I have mixed views on the situation. I dislike violence unless it's absolutely necessary in self defence, and I wouldn't be impressed with a guy who got into fights all the time. If someone is rude to me I can handle it. If some guy squeezes my ass I'm more than capable of humiliating him at the top of my voice. And let's face it - if I give a guy a slap for feeling me up he's unlikely to retaliate, whereas if my bf hit him there'd be a huge fight - not to mention that if I was arguing with a girl my bf couldn't exactly step in and smack her one!

Women can get away with a lot.

I'm thinking more of a guy who is protective in extreme situations, who can protect me from muggers and burglars and so on, who is strong enough to carry me out of a burning building, and who can keep me safe if a situation escalates beyond my control.

I hope you don't mind if I crush some of your romantic notions.

I think the best way to avoid muggers is to avoid dark alleys, and areas where you can be isolated.

I think burglars generally strike easy places (not secure) where valuables are usually in plain sight. I think they usually try to avoid the home owner, tenant, or whatever.

If there is no smoke then you can make your exit with your own two feet. If the place is filled with smoke, you should crawl your way out. Most people die from smoke inhalation, not the flames themselves.

 

There is a difference between brave and stupid. Stupid usually ends up on the obituary.

I would always prefer him to deal with the situation in a non-violent way if possible, but equally I'd expect him to protect me if he really had to. I'm as modern as the next woman, but unfortunately I have to admit that there are physiological differences between men and women - in general men are simply bigger and stronger. If some guy attacked me I might not be strong enough to fight him off, but I'd expect that my bf would be.

You are as frail a human being as he is. The most sensible thing would be to avoid trouble when possible. Rambo would not survive in a real battlefield.