I have survived hey, hey-----or may-be not?

[Nowhere Man]

My story as short as I can make it, 18 months ago after knowing her for 17 yrs and married for 13, my wife had a EA and I ran the normal gauntlet, of lies, blame shifting, unjustified anger, just friends, needing space, a multitude of problems with me, minimisation, hidden texts and more lies, discovery, confusion chaos and me eventually suffering from “Love Trauma Syndrome” (and let me tell ya that ain’t funny) etc etc.

 

The final confrontation with me arranging to meet a divorce lawyer and preparing all the official documents to go ahead with divorce. She crumbled and didn’t want a divorce and she made some (there could be more but I don’t, and can never, really know) disclosures about what happened and her feelings etc and agreed to NC. I truly believe that she has kept to her bargain and the EA is over and we are moving slowly on.

 

But, now another problem is starting to arise and one with me not her. See now I am recovered (or recovered enough) and am still analysing and going through the experiences of what went on and her actions. I have read for some people that have gone through similar experiences they end up saying that they “don’t know the person that they once loved anymore.”

 

My problem is that I now know her a lot more about her and what she is really capable of. Her utter, ruthless selfishness not only displayed towards me (I know I didn’t count for her during the EA other than being in the way of her “happiness”) but to our child, the wider family, our financial security and our marriage and everything that we have built. The complete disrespect, uncaring and callous way she treated me.

 

Fine, she had/has problems with me and our marriage. She could have chosen a multitude of ways to deal with this but didn’t.

 

Fine she could have wanted a divorce (she claimed for a year before she met the OM) but didn’t do or say anything. I would have respected her and her wishes and understood if she had.

 

Sure I know the fun, interesting, exciting, loving, caring person she is, or can be. But now I also see a darker side and one that seems, to me, to be darker than hell. A potentially, immoral, uncaring, childish, selfish and cruel person.

 

Anyway, I’m sitting here now thinking is someone who is capable of all that someone I really want to spend the rest of my life with invest my time, emotional energy and finances in?

 

After, fighting so hard, sacrificing and suffering so much, I don’t know if what I fought so hard for was worth fighting for. It's crazy because what did I go through all that for then? It would have been far easier to walk out the door on the first suspicion/revelation.

 

Has anyone else been in this phase? Is there a way out? Will it pass? How did you deal with it? Is it a normal phase?

 

I have even started to have thoughts, make plans for a life without her.

[2sure]

Its possible that you didnt want her so much as you wanted to "win".

And that now that you have.....

[Owl]

This is a normal phase that you go through after the affair.

 

Are you in marriage counseling? What ACTIVE steps are the two of you doing to recover/repair your marriage after all of this?

[Teslacoil]

I totally understand what you're going through. I've had a lot of those same kinds of feelings.

 

Unfortunately in the end I realized that what I was fighting for was NOT worth it. Around the time I was getting to my breaking point, and was going to stop fighting and opt for Divorce, my ex-wife basically said she was giving up, and to me that meant "Divorce" and it was like opening a door when I'd been trapped in a basement for a year.

 

I realized what I'd been spending so much time and energy fighting for was really just a big piece of crap.

[Church Bells]

Its possible that you didnt want her so much as you wanted to "win".

And that now that you have.....

 

As a fellow BH, my best guess is that the above is part of what you are experiencing.

 

NOTHING will affect a man's ego like having his W commit adultery. So you "manned up", put a stop to the A, and "won" her back. Now you're stuck with your "prize" ... a formerly wayward wife. What you thought was so special has now been tarnished and can never be repolished back to its original luster. Her A may not "define" her, but it sure provides a glimpse into what she is "capable" of, given the right circumstances.

 

I bet we also share another aspect of our FWW's A. Both of our WW's "claim" to have stopped short of a full blown physical affair (PA) ... but we will NEVER really KNOW for sure, and it eats away at you over time. I did everything in my power short of requiring a polygraph test to determine if there had been any intercourse or oral, but all I could confirm could best be described as a heavy "make out" session.

 

On good days, I want to believe that, but I'm enough of a realist to know what two horny adults do when such an opportunity presents itself. The relationship is now "tainted" enough with what I DO know, not even considering, what I suspect.

 

I've made the conscious decision to stay and see this through based on a multitude of factors too numerous to post here, but I wouldn't fault any BH who chooses to move on with his life in a different direction based on his own set of circumstances.

 

Only YOU can answer the questions about the quality of your life now, what you can endure, what is the likelihood of it happening again, can you get past "not knowing" for sure, etc.???

 

Good Luck!!!

[Nowhere Man]

Its possible that you didnt want her so much as you wanted to "win".

And that now that you have.....

 

I didn’t and don’t treat this as a game!

 

No I don’t think that is it, I was fighting for my wife that I knew or thought that I knew. But, did I really know her before or at the time this was going on? No, I didn’t think she was capable of such selfishness and disregard for all that love her and I mean all and not just me.

 

But, now as I look back I can see that she is.

 

What I am wondering is how have other people reconciled this fact that their WW is capable of such selfish, dishonest and sometimes down-right cruel actions and managed to move on to happy re-started marriages. Are they worth it when that other person lurks somewhere inside?

[Nowhere Man]

This is a normal phase that you go through after the affair.

 

Are you in marriage counseling? What ACTIVE steps are the two of you doing to recover/repair your marriage after all of this?

 

No we are not in counselling for 2 reasons 1/ she refuses, I think that the whole episode is an embarrassment to her and she doesn’t what to share it or re-live it (although I did speak to an online coath to help me with mt LTS and the start of this whole thing )and 2/ it is difficult where we live at the moment because we are overseas and it isn’t our native language.

 

We have done several things try to do more active things together such as around the house etc, pleasurable things together going out, weekends away change of diet, working out etc we try and talk about our feelings and relationship more although I haven’t shared this with her.

 

Things are slowly progressing and it feels like we are returning to a better place than the one we were in before. She is more assertive and more self confident than before, which I like actually. She is also embarrassed about what happened and is to some degree regretful of what happened although she still tries to shift the blame onto me.

 

The inherent problems in the marriage were 50% my fault the responsibility for the EA was her choice and I am not sure if she is accepting that and mixes the 2 together in her mind.

[Nowhere Man]

Her A may not "define" her, but it sure provides a glimpse into what she is "capable" of, given the right circumstances.

 

That’s the thing it has redefined her and the type of person she is.

 

I bet we also share another aspect of our FWW's A. Both of our WW's "claim" to have stopped short of a full blown physical affair (PA) ... but we will NEVER really KNOW for sure, and it eats away at you over time. I did everything in my power short of requiring a polygraph test to determine if there had been any intercourse or oral, but all I could confirm could best be described as a heavy "make out" session.

 

Yep true, but for me I resolved that if I had any intention of continuing with this at all I had to trust and believe her just one more time. As really there are only 2 people who can really answer that question. It actually doesn’t bug me so much as her taking the decision to give the guy her phone number, keep in contact with, the lies about it etc etc you know the drill. That decision in my mind marks her out as a selfish person, a liar, and someone who is prepared to throw not only me our son, wider family and all under a bus. That is a personality trait and not a good one. It is that what I am struggling with at the moment.

 

 

Only YOU can answer the questions about the quality of your life now, what you can endure, what is the likelihood of it happening again, can you get past "not knowing" for sure, etc.???

 

Good Luck!!!

 

The quality is ok and improving. I am past not knowing for sure that aspect doesn’t matter too much. As I say it is her personality trait that are worrying me or causing me to re-evaluate at the moment.

 

Thanks and to you to the best of luck.

[seibert253]

The two of you will never truly heal without counseling. The underlying issues of why this happened will never be resolved.

 

You NEED to make counseling a stipulation of R. No if's and's or but's about it. You need to sit your wife down and lay it on the line. You need to tell her she's "going through the motions" and nothing is being resolved. You need to stand firm and tell her you cannot remain married unless the issues you and her have are resolved. As hard as it is, you need to hit her with a 2X4 and give her the option. Put 100% into fixing this, or move out.

[Teslacoil]

If she's selfish or irresponsible enough to say that it's your fault she had an Emotional Affair... then get the hell out of dodge.

 

What I am wondering is how have other people reconciled this fact that their WW is capable of such selfish, dishonest and sometimes down-right cruel actions and managed to move on to happy re-started marriages. Are they worth it when that other person lurks somewhere inside?

 

I didn't reconcile it. I pretty much just discovered that my wife was completely selfish. She was unapologetic, lied, manipulated, had no respect for me, placed no value on our marriage, and still expected to be treated like the bloody Queen of England.

 

I was much happier when I got out. I don't know if other people have better "success" stories. The "success" for me was getting out when I did!

[Nowhere Man]

I totally understand what you're going through. I've had a lot of those same kinds of feelings.

 

Unfortunately in the end I realized that what I was fighting for was NOT worth it. Around the time I was getting to my breaking point, and was going to stop fighting and opt for Divorce, my ex-wife basically said she was giving up, and to me that meant "Divorce" and it was like opening a door when I'd been trapped in a basement for a year.

 

I realized what I'd been spending so much time and energy fighting for was really just a big piece of crap.

 

I got to my breaking point and was on the way to the lawyer when she broke down, wept and appeared remorseful. She finally opened up and acknowledged that it was some form of EA and not the usual “just good friends” bit which we had been through a thousand time before.

 

It was like coming out of the deepest darkest pit. Things have progressed and we are doing ok. It is just this growing problem I have over what type of person she really is.

[Trimmer]

I didn’t and don’t treat this as a game!

I believe you. I don't think it was just "to win", but rather trying to save/recover a relationship you valued, one that you were in grave danger of seeing destroyed.

 

I was fighting for my wife that I knew or thought that I knew.

I think that is key. During the initial trauma, you are fighting to "get back" what is at risk - your vision of the undamaged good times that are the best parts of your relationship.

 

But afterward, you can't help integrating the new knowledge into your vision of your wife, and come up with the conclusion that things have changed, something has broken, and whatever the future may bring (and it may be good or bad, I'm not assuming...) what's past is gone. Innocence is lost forever.

 

Sorry, I don't have a lot of positive suggestions, but I think it is not at all unusual for you to feel this way, and I don't think it's just about winning a competition. Initially, it's about trying to stave off the loss of a precious thing and avoid further trauma by getting "back to the way things were", but eventually the reality sets in that you are in a new world, and that any relationship will need to exist in this new context.

[Bryanp]

Hello,

 

I guess I am just cynical but from what you have written your wife continued to lie to you until you were getting set to go to a lawyer. It sounds like she just gave up enough information to keep you from going. From what you have written it does not sound like a single drunk encounter. She gave the OM her phone number, continued contact with him, continued to lie about it and finally grudgingly admitted to just heavy kissing. (what is wrong with this picture?) Most cheating wifes will rarely ever tell you the complete truth. I don't see why you don't have a polygraph done? I think her reaction to possibly having one will tell you a great deal about her ability to tell the truth. I wish you luck.

[Nowhere Man]

Hello,

 

I guess I am just cynical but from what you have written your wife continued to lie to you until you were getting set to go to a lawyer. It sounds like she just gave up enough information to keep you from going.

 

No it wasn’t like that. It was far more complicated and drawn out. I just got to a point where I couldn’t keep playing ring a roses around the “he is just a friend” guess what is going to happen next etc etc bull anymore. It was the end of the game and she realised it. Decision time.

 

 

 

 

From what you have written it does not sound like a single drunk encounter. She gave the OM her phone number, continued contact with him, continued to lie about it

 

No it wasn’t and yes she did. Which must have been a conscious decision after she first met him. Which is what my current problem is, her conscious decision.

 

 

and finally grudgingly admitted to just heavy kissing.

 

No she never admitted that.

 

 

(what is wrong with this picture?) Most cheating wifes will rarely ever tell you the complete truth. I don't see why you don't have a polygraph done? I think her reaction to possibly having one will tell you a great deal about her ability to tell the truth. I wish you luck.

 

I know they wont, they will minimise everything as much as they possibly can.

 

The thing or my thing is I have come to terms with all that, we have agreed to a fresh start that seems to be slowly going in the right direction. She is pulling and I am pulling. But, what I am thinking is…. if this was the first time that I met her and we were starting in a relationship and someone told me that she has the side to her character that I now know exists would I wish to continue seeing her, build a relationship with her?

 

The answer I am coming up with would be no.

 

But, I have read a lot of couples who have survived say that there marriage are now better and strong than before. I am wondering how or if they have encountered the same feelings/questions I am asking myself.

[Nowhere Man]

Thank you all for taking the time to read and respond to my thread. I’m off to bed to think and hopefully to dream. I will be back tomorrow and reply then.

[Chrome Barracuda]

Yeah ive been there before I dont think any man wants to be made to feel like he's second best and also all those questions and thoughts are swirling in your head of what she's capable of.

 

It sucks but if she aint doing anything to rebuild your trust, it makes you think, huh.

 

So what are you gonna do?

[freestyle]

Hi NM:

 

My heart goes out to you for the pain you`re experiencing. What I`d like to recommend is picking up a copy of "Not Just Friends", reading it and seeing if you can get your wife to read it as well.

 

It gives a very comprehensive view of what can lead to EMRs, as well as

what steps are necessary if reconciliation is chosen. I gained a lot of insight from reading it after going through the trauma of my bf having an EA.

 

I felt like I was losing my sanity, and after reading this book, I`ve learned that it`s a completely normal reaction. It says that survivors of infidelity actually show symptoms similar to those people who have lived through major catastrophes. "Being betrayed by the one whom you trusted the most feels like a mortal wound..." (apologies to the author if that wasn`t the exact wording)

 

So, I`m hoping this could be helpful to you as well, and perhaps you can make a better-informed decision about whether or not to reconcile.

 

Sending you thoughts of comfort and healing...................

[Spark1111]

Hi NM! I too am a BS married to a minimizer who reluctantly spoke trickle truths. It's been two years since DDay.

 

My process to healing has been three-fold:

 

I had to forgive the affair.

 

I had to forgive the lies and deception (Harder)

 

I am working on regaining my respect of him (Hardest).

 

As an honest person with a lot of personal integrity, it remains so hard to wrap my head around his lack of honesty and personal integrity.

 

Lots of counseling, IC and MC. Generally, the cheater gains the most insight in IC as they explore the personal issues that led them to slide over the marital boundaries.

 

My logic told me he is the weaker of the two of us; vulnerable, insecure, needy and not a good communicator in those regards. My emotions, however, were a raging rollercoaster of pain, betrayal and mistrust.

 

He is working hard to be a better man, spouse, father, and to REALLY understanding why he did what he did. The more he learns of himself, the stronger he gets, the greater his remorse.

 

In MC, we are working on being better able to communicate our needs to each other and our marriage is vastly different, better than it was.

 

Is there a pastor, someone in your area, that the two of you could talk to?

[PhoenixRise]

NM

 

I have been where you are. I think it is a healthy part of a good reconciliation if true reconciliation is what you desire. I think you would have to be insane NOT to completely reconsider your marriage and your relationship with your W after you have been betrayed. Of course you are seeing her with different eyes. You have discovered that she is capable of cruelty and deception this new information about her affects the whole picture of her.

 

I think without any outside help IC and MC your marriage will either fail or limp along in an unhappy state.

 

Tell your wife that you are imagining a life without her and it looks pretty good. Tell her that if she wants to be married to you that she must stay in total NC with the OM and that she must participate in MC to help improve the marriage. She strayed. She doesn't get a choice. She gets to make it up to you and she gets to prove to you that SHE can be trusted (if this is even possible).

[freestyle]

Hi again NM:

 

So your wife is embarassed by everything and doesn`t wish to discuss the issues?

 

I have an analogy that may help:

 

You can sweep things under the rug, but what do you end up with?

 

A lumpy rug.

 

And it gets real hard to keep your balance on a lumpy rug.

[imagine]

Beware of the trickle truth. All details of the affair have to be exposed.

 

Go easy on her and try to anticipate nasty revelation. Do NOT negatively reward her for new info. Until the history is clear it will be very hard for you to progress.

 

If you have not met her EN's before, its time you find out what they are. Now is the time to begin a new marriage. Get both of you on board.

[kakui215]

But, I have read a lot of couples who have survived say that there marriage are now better and strong than before. I am wondering how or if they have encountered the same feelings/questions I am asking myself.

 

It's been 15 months since I discovered my wife's EA (and the fact that they were planning on meeting to consummate a PA). We're now getting along very well, and I can actually say that recently (i.e. the past 2-3 months) there are more days when I think we've never had as good a relationship as we have now than days when I return to the sense of betrayal and, as you mention, discovery of a dark side of which I'd never believed she was capable.

 

My wife, by the way, also resisted counseling out of shame. (She's Japanese, a culture in which people are typically baffled by the notion of sharing such intimate secrets with a stranger since they often avoid discussing such things even with those they are closest to.) She finally agreed a few months ago and we've gone a few times, though travel and other things with our kids prevented us from going the past few weeks. The MC has helped somewhat, but more important is that we've both been trying to avoid old habits that led to our feeling so apart from each other. With 4 kids, that's not easy, but we're making progress!

 

Nevertheless, I imagine that no matter how well we do, there will be times when I go back to those old feelings of betrayal and dark discovery, but my hope is that if we keep working on it, those moments will continue to get shorter and less frequent.

 

I'm sure you'd also love to hear from someone who's gone through a similar situation but is now years away from it and who's marriage really is stronger. Anyone?

[Dexter Morgan]

I have even started to have thoughts, make plans for a life without her.

 

I suggest this is the plan you need to implement. Don't waste any more of your short years on this planet on her.