Does This Fit Your Scenario, BSs?

[Spark1111]

I blogged on another site how I tried to calmly contact the other woman and received no response. Instead, she called up my husband at his new office and angrily told him to tell me to back off.

 

Initially, having only empathy for a lonely and vulnerable single mother, I reformed my opinion of her. If three adults in a long term triangle get hurt, I thought three adults could calmly discuss almost two years of their lives after the devastation of DDay. I was wrong, but didn't understand why.

 

The psychologist on the other blog weighed in with "adults do not engage in affairs." There are basically two types of personalities that are vulnerable to engaging in an affair.

 

First scenario: Someone with an unresolved parent/child conflict that leads to an emotional vulnerability in adulthood. If you weren't praised or flattered or validated enough in childhood, your need for it does not diminish in adulthood and you remain susceptibly weak in this area. You could have a wonderful marriage, but unresolved childhood needs make you seek validation wherever and with whomever you find it.

 

Second scenario: you are bored and complacent with your primary relationship, but lack the tools and maturity to communicate your need for change and excitement.You grow despondent and become vulnerable to a triangle in which the roles are victim and rescuer (the affair partners) and persecutor (BS). This is filled with heavy drama and excitement.

 

In my own personal scenario, there is definitely aspects of both in my WS and his OW. The most hurtful aspect is that I had to be demonized so the halo could be placed on her head. She was still embittered toward her exH, and he was miserable in his own life for which I was blamed, unfairly so. (Scenario two.)

 

We are two years since DDay. In IC, he is slowly discovering that his mother, while she loved him, was not all that validating and was somewhat manipulative. (Scenario one) He has admitted that the attention and flattery was the biggest turn on.

 

So after all the rollercoasting, the insecurities, the rage I have experienced in an effort to heal and reconcile, I have returned to square one: It had nothing to do with me.

 

Do these scenarios ring true for you?

 

And if they do, does it help in your healing as it did me?

[bentnotbroken]

Spark, I always knew it had nothing to do with me. The things that hurt me the most were them having sex in my home, the plans to screw me financially, talking about my(his)kids as if they were nothing, and the lies. My healing began when I realized they weren't capable of having empathy or remorse. The NPD personalities are destructive and I couldn't let them destroy me(I was doing a pretty good job of it on my own)or my children. Forgiveness was the only answer for me. I released the feelings of payback.

 

Though every so often I still have to deal with the actions of the OW, it doesn't bring me the same anxiety or anger it once did. The anger comes, but it is never stays for a long time anymore.

[Impudent Oyster]

I.

 

First scenario: Someone with an unresolved parent/child conflict that leads to an emotional vulnerability in adulthood. If you weren't praised or flattered or validated enough in childhood, your need for it does not diminish in adulthood and you remain susceptibly weak in this area. You could have a wonderful marriage, but unresolved childhood needs make you seek validation wherever and with whomever you find it.

 

Do these scenarios ring true for you?

 

And if they do, does it help in your healing as it did me?

 

Most definitely the first scenario rings true.

 

H had an older brother who was the classic overachiever, scholar, valedictorian, professionally successful, his parents treated him like a god, placed him on a pedestal and went on and on about his achievements.

 

Although H was just as smart, he rebelled, failed a year of HS even having to repeat his senior year, didn't get into a great college and has spent the rest of his life proving his worth.

 

Even though he's very, very successful, he needs contstant attention, praise and validation. He STILL competes for his mother's approval.

 

We discovered this in MC and he in IC as well. I don't know if he'll ever get over that need, but at least he's aware that this is his issue and that he's vulnerable to it. I think this was the major contributor to his affair. The OW showered him with praise and flattery to the point that it was sappy, and he ate it up.

 

Even now he'll come home and tell me about some compliment someone gave him or accomplishment and he's like a child who got an A+ in school.

 

He realizes now how this need for validation is beyond normal and to adjust his expectations of me. As the counselors told us and him...this had nothing to do with me but with his issues. I truly believe he realizes that his expectations are unrealistic and that the OW was nothing more than a tool to feed the bottomless pit of his ego.

[PhoenixRise]

First scenario: Someone with an unresolved parent/child conflict that leads to an emotional vulnerability in adulthood. If you weren't praised or flattered or validated enough in childhood, your need for it does not diminish in adulthood and you remain susceptibly weak in this area. You could have a wonderful marriage, but unresolved childhood needs make you seek validation wherever and with whomever you find it.

 

Second scenario: you are bored and complacent with your primary relationship, but lack the tools and maturity to communicate your need for change and excitement.You grow despondent and become vulnerable to a triangle in which the roles are victim and rescuer (the affair partners) and persecutor (BS). This is filled with heavy drama and excitement.

 

It had nothing to do with me.

 

Do these scenarios ring true for you?

 

And if they do, does it help in your healing as it did me?

 

 

My situation was also a blending of the two. My H absolutely had/has mother issues. She was a single mother who bonded very closely with my SIL but not with my H. She always praised any, and I mean ANY accomplishment of SIL but when H excelled....nothing.

 

So from what I have seen of their correspondence, OW praised my H to the high heavens.

 

AND yes, during the affair, my H cast himself as the victim with me as the persecutor. It must have been my fault you see because my H has always seen himself as and has always wanted to BE a good man.

[silktricks]

The first scenario was much of a fit for my husband - though there were a some other items at play as well - but those also included unresolved issues.

[Gamine]

Oh, yes. Scenario #1 big time with a dash of Scenario #2 thrown in for good measure.

 

It takes guts to stand by someone who is sick and/or acting out for deep rooted psychological reasons, doesn't it? It is difficult reading the posts by some of the OW with boasts of glee concerning their sexual prowess and their irresistible seductions. That these men are addicted to them, the person. It is sad for them as well, because they don't realize that some of these guys are acting out painful and or dysfunctional aspects of themselves. Of course the A seems extreme.. filled with such intensity. From the mind of the broken person they are almost like an addict fueling a sickness as a compulsion. The compulsion aspect of it is what gives the intensity to the situation.

 

Yet, for some of them, they believe that the intensity is a one of a kind love. Often it is the BS that sits there with this broken person who says they did it but don't know why they did. Who asks for forgiveness and learns why they were messed up.

 

Sometimes there are genuine feelings and meaningful things that can happen in an affair. Often, from what I have read, these people have personal problems that lead to the affair.

 

Thanks for posting this....

[Gamine]

Oh, I would also like to add that often times people refer to the 'marriage' as having problems or being broken due to failings or shortcomings of the BS. If the BS loved properly or gave the WS what they needed they wouldn't have strayed.

 

Marriage doesn't cure people. Marriage isn't medicine and doesn't exist to fulfill what is missing inside of a person. Marriage requires giving as well as receiving. And one who is broken cannot give and cannot receive. They merely live within their own hearts and minds reaching out externally... over and over again... for the thing to fill them up. When, all along, the answer resided only within themselves.

[PhoenixRise]

Oh, yes. Scenario #1 big time with a dash of Scenario #2 thrown in for good measure.

 

It takes guts to stand by someone who is sick and/or acting out for deep rooted psychological reasons, doesn't it? It is difficult reading the posts by some of the OW with boasts of glee concerning their sexual prowess and their irresistible seductions. That these men are addicted to them, the person. It is sad for them as well, because they don't realize that some of these guys are acting out painful and or dysfunctional aspects of themselves. Of course the A seems extreme.. filled with such intensity. From the mind of the broken person they are almost like an addict fueling a sickness as a compulsion. The compulsion aspect of it is what gives the intensity to the situation.

 

Yet, for some of them, they believe that the intensity is a one of a kind love. Often it is the BS that sits there with this broken person who says they did it but don't know why they did. Who asks for forgiveness and learns why they were messed up.

 

Sometimes there are genuine feelings and meaningful things that can happen in an affair. Often, from what I have read, these people have personal problems that lead to the affair.

 

Thanks for posting this....

 

 

 

This post really resonted with me.

 

When I left my H I had to wonder if the OW even had a clue about what she was doing because in our case, for the OW to actually "get" the man, she would have had to completely "break" the man.

[Spark1111]

Spark, I always knew it had nothing to do with me. The things that hurt me the most were them having sex in my home, the plans to screw me financially, talking about my(his)kids as if they were nothing, and the lies. My healing began when I realized they weren't capable of having empathy or remorse. The NPD personalities are destructive and I couldn't let them destroy me(I was doing a pretty good job of it on my own)or my children. Forgiveness was the only answer for me. I released the feelings of payback.

 

Though every so often I still have to deal with the actions of the OW, it doesn't bring me the same anxiety or anger it once did. The anger comes, but it is never stays for a long time anymore.

 

Bent, I know how hard you worked to overcome. But in re-reading this post, doesn't it strike you how adolescent and....rebellious...this scenario was? Sex in your home, financial ruin, disdain for his OWN children???? I mean it sounds like two angry and rebellious teenagers that have to get back at mommy. And that sounds like a mix of both scenarios. And on a lesser scale, sounds like what I endured, too. Sneaking around all over town to punish.....MOMMY.

[Snowflower]

Oh yes, definitely scenario #1 for my husband...issues with his mother. Not so much for scenario #2.

 

How interesting that the mother/son dynamic plays such a role...as mentioned in other posts here. Most here are identifying somewhat with #1. I guess I should go read my college psychology textbooks again. Having a son myself also makes me understand this dynamic quite well!

 

My husband's mother basically abandoned him when he was 5...she got sick, had an early MLC, whatever. My husband never had a real relationship with her after that and she passed away 10 years ago. He and his sisters went to live with their father. It's sad...and I know my husband pushed that feeling of abandonment very deep down inside and never shared his pain, even with me. I hated to 'pry' into his past-because he would always shut down.

 

After his A, in MC, some of this started to come out. I saw flashes of a little boy who desperately wanted to please and be loved. I learned more about his pain then I ever had in the 18 years I had known him. I did have a deep well of empathy for my husband and what he went through-it absolutely helped me heal and forgive. It was a huge turning point in our recovery process.

 

I also learned that it was less about the OW-very little in fact. She seemed to fill the void-and validated his issues of 'abandonment' when our marriage was at a very weak point. She could have been anybody.

 

Thanks, spark, for posting this.

[Spark1111]

My situation was also a blending of the two. My H absolutely had/has mother issues. She was a single mother who bonded very closely with my SIL but not with my H. She always praised any, and I mean ANY accomplishment of SIL but when H excelled....nothing.

 

So from what I have seen of their correspondence, OW praised my H to the high heavens.

 

AND yes, during the affair, my H cast himself as the victim with me as the persecutor. It must have been my fault you see because my H has always seen himself as and has always wanted to BE a good man.

 

Pheonix, my WS was the only son and the only child with undiagnosed ADHD. His sisters seemed "perfect" because they were submissive, well-behaved and compliant. His parents misguided efforts to control led them to taunt, humiliate and punish only him.

 

His OW told him repeatedly how wonderful he was as she too was dealing with a difficult son. He made every effort to help this boy (at her request). Was he trying to help/rescue himself at that age? Very possibly.

[Gamine]

Bent, I know how hard you worked to overcome. But in re-reading this post, doesn't it strike you how adolescent and....rebellious...this scenario was? Sex in your home, financial ruin, disdain for his OWN children???? I mean it sounds like two angry and rebellious teenagers that have to get back at mommy. And that sounds like a mix of both scenarios. And on a lesser scale, sounds like what I endured, too. Sneaking around all over town to punish.....MOMMY.

 

How true. When they cease seeing themselves as a continuum bouncing about through life reacting and reaching and realize (often through crisis such as an A) that they can become actual men and leave the child and all of the reacting and reaching aside.

 

Relationships, whether they are marriage, dating, or affairs do not cure a person. Hence the reason for the higher divorce rates amongst affair partners.

[Spark1111]

Gamine, so true! It takes maturity to realize no one person or institution such as marriage is a cure all for what ails you. You have to make you happy before you can give to another person; and you have to love yourself fully before you can love another.

 

I suspended MC for a while because my WS had sooooo much IC to do before it would have any chance of success for us. I saw him shifting gears in MC, starting to invoke all those childhood defense mechanisms which were starting to anger me.

 

Today I tell him that I am more healed than he is, unable as he remains to examine his former actions and understand them. He crumples, not strong enough to slay every dragon yet. I wait patiently.

 

yes, the affair is an addiction that feels like love with it's dopamine spike and crash. (Another article I read on a Phych spot) And while I will not take away from those who DO find a lasting connection with a new partner, the fact that it is rarely the case speaks eloquently to the two scenarios I mentioned.

[Snowflower]

How true. When they cease seeing themselves as a continuum bouncing about through life reacting and reaching and realize (often through crisis such as an A) that they can become actual men and leave the child and all of the reacting and reaching aside.

 

Relationships, whether they are marriage, dating, or affairs do not cure a person. Hence the reason for the higher divorce rates amongst affair partners.

 

 

Which brings to mind the to the saying "wherever you go, there you are." You can't escape who you are and your own issues-no matter who you are with. Your spouse, your AP (especially if you leave the marriage), your children, friends, etc.

 

My husband was always a good guy and a good husband before his A. However, after his crisis, he grew and changed and become a great guy. Like you said gamine, he left the child and all the reaching and became a man. It was why I could give him another chance-I could see a tangible change.

[Spark1111]

Oh yes, definitely scenario #1 for my husband...issues with his mother. Not so much for scenario #2.

 

How interesting that the mother/son dynamic plays such a role...as mentioned in other posts here. Most here are identifying somewhat with #1. I guess I should go read my college psychology textbooks again. Having a son myself also makes me understand this dynamic quite well!

 

My husband's mother basically abandoned him when he was 5...she got sick, had an early MLC, whatever. My husband never had a real relationship with her after that and she passed away 10 years ago. He and his sisters went to live with their father. It's sad...and I know my husband pushed that feeling of abandonment very deep down inside and never shared his pain, even with me. I hated to 'pry' into his past-because he would always shut down.

 

After his A, in MC, some of this started to come out. I saw flashes of a little boy who desperately wanted to please and be loved. I learned more about his pain then I ever had in the 18 years I had known him. I did have a deep well of empathy for my husband and what he went through-it absolutely helped me heal and forgive. It was a huge turning point in our recovery process.

 

I also learned that it was less about the OW-very little in fact. She seemed to fill the void-and validated his issues of 'abandonment' when our marriage was at a very weak point. She could have been anybody.

 

Thanks, spark, for posting this.

 

2sure, a former OW and then BS, has repeatedly told me it is not the person, it is the dynamic that fuels the affair. The OW/OM could be anyone who fuels the WS' personality requirements.

 

However, I wonder....if the OW/OM has a similiar childhood dysfunction with their opposite sex parent?

 

The OW in my particular case had a terrible relationship with both her father and exH, bitter to the point of unreasonableness.

 

So, in that sense, two needy, insecure people crash into each other and disregard all boundaries, not in the name of love, but in the name of having unmet needs from childhood met outside the marriage. That in itself, could spark hormones and feelings of "love."

[Spark1111]

I mean, I have many single widowed and divorced female friends who would not engage in an attraction for a married man with a ten-foot pole.

 

I came to LS trying to get a handle on the type of woman who would allow that attraction to cross such boundaries.

 

The OW/OM forum made me weep with its pathos, and enraged me with its passionate claims of unrequited love.

 

Our OW was smart, resourceful, and said all the right things. He had her on a pedestal for the longest time. She has since fallen off.

 

In most cases, not all, the affair follows a dynamic with its secrecy, illicit passion, and misplaced anger at the BS. The affair partners do to.

 

How wonderful to be back at my logical conclusion two years later, waiting out my emotional roller coaster to catch up with my relentless research!

 

It had nothing to do with me.

[Snowflower]

2sure, a former OW and then BS, has repeatedly told me it is not the person, it is the dynamic that fuels the affair. The OW/OM could be anyone who fuels the WS' personality requirements.

 

However, I wonder....if the OW/OM has a similiar childhood dysfunction with their opposite sex parent?

 

The OW in my particular case had a terrible relationship with both her father and exH, bitter to the point of unreasonableness.

 

So, in that sense, two needy, insecure people crash into each other and disregard all boundaries, not in the name of love, but in the name of having unmet needs from childhood met outside the marriage. That in itself, could spark hormones and feelings of "love."

 

2Sure is one of my favorite posters...I like her viewpoint on a lot of things...she has a very good perspective.

 

I know very little about the OW in my particular situation. Met her once, very briefly, months before their affair started. I know very little about her personally. But the possibility of similar childhood backgrounds between my H and the OW is an interesting dynamic.

 

Our MC pointed out that my intact childhood family was perhaps partially why my husband was attracted to ME at the beginning of our relationship. Perhaps because it was healthy and what he had always craved. So, it makes sense that he would select someone with perhaps a similar dysfunction in an affair situation. I have often wondered if the OW in some sense reminded him of his mother? As twisted as that sounds...I do know a few things about that would seem to support this.

[Gamine]

As gross as this may sound, the married OW looked like his mother. I even put the OWs photograph next to his mother's. The OW was strictly about using sex to get control ... in order to get what she wanted. Literally, she showed up for lunch hour sex. There were no dinners out together, handholding while walking through a park, movies, lunches, or anything romantic. She literally showed up on her lunch break, had sex and went back to work and then home to her husband and kids. Again, no feeling or tenderness just like mommy. She also had a similar background in terms of the logistics of where they were raised. There were words of 'love' and discussions of being together forever... yet in their interactions it was cold and methodical. Like his mother. When I asked him why he went back for more, he stated that it was for the sex and the expectation of feeling better. But it never came. Just like his mother.

[2sure]

I thought the scenerios you pointed out were right on target for both myself and my H. And are true to at least some degree for 99% of affairs.

 

The biggest thing I believe that I take flack for here is that OW who have affairs with MM are at a vulnerable point in their lives when they do so. Strong women who are not vulnerable DO NOT engage in affairs with MM. Its as simple as that.

 

When I was OW , I thought I was strong. In fact, I thought I was in more control of my life than I had ever been. The reality in hindsight was the opposite.

 

One other thing I want to point out. I was OW several times over. Having an affair with a MM is easier than a real relationship in a lot of ways. That being said if anyone of them had asked me at the time: Who are you??

My response could have been: Anyone you want me to be.

[jwi71]

Spark,

 

Great post...love those two scenarios.

 

Number two quite simply described my xW to a 'T'. Her mother was largely absent and her father, an insanely wealthy businessman, was never there to give her the feedback any child would need. A nanny doesn't suffice (she was raised by nannies).

 

Her A was definitely born of low self-esteem and this need to feel validated. And whatever I could give her, over time, simply wasn't enough. Almost like a drug addict...she needed more and more until I didn't suffice. She needed another to provide it.

[skywriter]

2Sure, took the words right out of my mouth. I too, thought I was doing better in my life than I had in yrs.

 

I don't post often. I just don't know what to say or how to say it. Maybe I'm afraid I won't say the right thing.

 

I'm positive that like most, never in a million yrs thought I'd be on the OW end of the stick. I was married for half my life when my H said I don't love you and I'm leaving. 2 days later he did just that, left me with two kids and a mortgage. Long story short, got a second job, worked 68 hrs a wk, lost weight, dyed my hair, got on with my life. Six yrs later......

 

MM came into the picture, met him through my son. He was much older than my son. My son enjoyed his company, he took my son fishing, spent time with him, just made him happy. So I think this was my initial attraction. I trusted him and the fact that my son trusted him made it easier.

 

Looking back, now I realise that I worked on becoming healthier in the physical sense ,worked on raising my now young adult kids, but I haven't begun to work on my emotional well being. I was lonely, and probably alot of other things without even realising it.

 

Being the OW is a terrible place to have put myself. It's shameful, painful, and even more lonely,than I was to begin with. At least then I didn't even consciously realise that I was lonely.

[Spark1111]

As gross as this may sound, the married OW looked like his mother. I even put the OWs photograph next to his mother's. The OW was strictly about using sex to get control ... in order to get what she wanted. Literally, she showed up for lunch hour sex. There were no dinners out together, handholding while walking through a park, movies, lunches, or anything romantic. She literally showed up on her lunch break, had sex and went back to work and then home to her husband and kids. Again, no feeling or tenderness just like mommy. She also had a similar background in terms of the logistics of where they were raised. There were words of 'love' and discussions of being together forever... yet in their interactions it was cold and methodical. Like his mother. When I asked him why he went back for more, he stated that it was for the sex and the expectation of feeling better. But it never came. Just like his mother.

 

Gamine.....how interesting this is to me. I met her once also before the affair took off and did not take much notice. 10 months later we met again and she had lost a trememdous amount of weight. She then bore an uncanny resemblance to my mother-in-law. I never realized this before! Thank you!

 

2sure, words of insightful wisdom, as always. I have an acquaintance in the midst of throwing over her marriage to date, claiming to be no longer in love with her spouse. She agonizes over every sentence, text, joke and outfit as she re-lives 17 again. Yes, "who would you like me to be," rings very, very true!

 

Lastly, I am amazed at the...ahem....maturity of these posts and posters. I thought someone would come slinging some mud here. I guess the topic is only appealing to the introspective and insightful.

 

What great company I am in today! Thank you all.

[Spark1111]

Spark,

 

Great post...love those two scenarios.

 

Number two quite simply described my xW to a 'T'. Her mother was largely absent and her father, an insanely wealthy businessman, was never there to give her the feedback any child would need. A nanny doesn't suffice (she was raised by nannies).

 

Her A was definitely born of low self-esteem and this need to feel validated. And whatever I could give her, over time, simply wasn't enough. Almost like a drug addict...she needed more and more until I didn't suffice. She needed another to provide it.

 

jwi....you have my utter sympathy as I think the triangle with me cast in the role of villian, along with the OW's exH, was so much more hurtful in the long run.

 

I have said to him in therapy, some people have affairs and come home happier, being better fathers and husbands. You were a miserable, nasty, arrogant SOB who found fault with everything we said and did, How hurtful!

 

Like the refrain of a popular song, "If it made you happy, then why were you so sad????"

 

But, on the other hand, his mistreatment helped me realize how delusional and depressed he truly was. Perhaps the better statement is, they did not FIND each other but, rather LOST THEMSELVES in an affair.

[Spark1111]

Hmmmmm...also Gamine, she WAS manipulative like my MIL, to get what she wanted; trips, gifts, limos, sunset dinners --all the perks she could not afford for herself, but felt she was still entitled to......Interesting....

[PhoenixRise]

This discussion regarding parental issues got me wondering... For those who say their WS had mommie or daddie issues, how does your MIL or FIL feel about you?

 

My MIL, before she got to know me and learned better, saw me as weak because I didn't browbeat my then BF in front of her or say negative things about him to her or my SIL (I don't browbeat, I stay cool, then you pay later).

 

I know the OW saw me as weak due to my initial reaction to the affair. Bless her heart, she didn't know any better, and lucky for her, she never had to find out.

 

My FIL is as distant with me as he always was with my H.

 

 

Now I am wondering just how much mommy issues played a part in my H chosing ME for his W and OW as OW.

 

Any thoughts on this?