sally4sara Posted August 6, 2009 Posted August 6, 2009 When I was in high school, it was def frowned on for students and teachers to socialize after school hours. I was on the track team, coach held all contact with parents - not the team members alone. So if he needed any of us to know something that couldn't wait the weekend or even till the next day, he called our parents to tell them about it. I never wanted his number. Never thought to ask for it. Same for other clubs and activities I participated in. Who wants to socialize with adults when you're a teen? But back then, kids didn't have cell phones or web pages. If they had a computer, it belonged to the whole family and wasn't kept in the kid's room.....
stillafool Posted August 6, 2009 Posted August 6, 2009 I feel it is inappropriate for a coach on the "high school" level to contact kids after hours without going through their parents. However, on the "college level" it is okay for a coach to contact his players whenever he wants.
Mr. Lucky Posted August 7, 2009 Posted August 7, 2009 From what I read your H is an excellent coach, I would bet his students ask him all kinds of questions. Great teachers and coaches are not only that but also are guidance counsellors, advisors, and friends with the upmost respect. Students will even invite him to go places with them. My peers love our best teachers and would want their input on a variety of subjects. I am pretty sure coaches recieve the same amount of esteem. I've never seen it from your side though OP. I guess the time commitment would be frustrating. I'm not saying it's right. I just wanted to point out students talk to their teachers/coaches after hours for a variety of reasons. Sometimes your coach would seem like the only person you can feel safe talking to... Amen. God bless everyone that takes the time to work with young people during what is for many a difficult time. Anyone who has done so can't help but come away more optimistic about this country's future. There are some great young men and women out there. When I was in high school, it was def frowned on for students and teachers to socialize after school hours. s4s, since the OP said that her H's communication with his students was limited to "texts, emails and calls ... all related to running", I don't think he's socializing... Mr. Lucky
sally4sara Posted August 7, 2009 Posted August 7, 2009 Amen. God bless everyone that takes the time to work with young people during what is for many a difficult time. Anyone who has done so can't help but come away more optimistic about this country's future. There are some great young men and women out there. s4s, since the OP said that her H's communication with his students was limited to "texts, emails and calls ... all related to running", I don't think he's socializing... Mr. Lucky And I guess you didn't bother more than a skim of what I posted when I said we managed to fit every question we had into practice time. As well our coach managed to fit all his sage instruction into the same practice time. It either waited till the next day or he called our parents. I didn't even have his contact info - my mom did. And that was how the school felt it was most appropriate.
NoIDidn't Posted August 7, 2009 Posted August 7, 2009 I feel for you. But it sounds to me like he IS listening to you, and willing to cut back. My husband performs, ALOT, after his full time job (where he works about 60 to 70 hours a week) is up. Some of it is church-related, but lately its just gigging. I get left behind with the kids quite a bit. But we have a simple rule that he's learned to abide by: drop everything and take ALL my calls. My husband loves performing and I would never want to tell him to choose that over me. Sounds like your H loves coaching, too. If he's willing to cut back and spend more time with you and the family, that's a good thing for you. It really sounds like he is at least trying to meet you halfway on this.
Mr. Lucky Posted August 7, 2009 Posted August 7, 2009 My husband and I have been married for 1 1/2 years. He coaches Track and Cross Country at a local high school. At the time that I got involved with him, I understood that he coached, but I didn't understand the extent to which he loves it. Now, over 1 1/2 years into the marriage, it is really putting a strain on me. Bizbee, did you have any conversation with your H during your dating and engagement about your feelings on this? Is his approach and time invested in coaching any different after your marriage than it was before? Mr. Lucky
Vet Posted August 7, 2009 Posted August 7, 2009 I'm simply going to guess that you've never been involved in this type of activity (I mean coaching, not the lurid trappings that you attempt to associate with it). Had you participated, you'd know that your standard of "absolutely no reason for an adult to be communicating with his or her students after hours" isn't correct, possible or desired by the participants or their parents. You'd guess wrong; I participated in many sports in high school, including football, track, and soccer, in which I was all very active. Not once did I associate with my coaches after hours. There was never anything too important that couldn't wait until the next scheduled time we saw each other. There's just nothing too important that can't wait until then. Constant after hours contact is the appearance of impropriety at best; something to which a person that works with children should avoid at all costs to protect him or herself and their family from. Nothing is worth risking that, especially not hearing about your student's "training, results, or plans". I'm sort of baffled how you could honestly defend that; you don't have to be in contact with your students 24/7 to be a good coach or teacher.
Mr. Lucky Posted August 7, 2009 Posted August 7, 2009 Constant after hours contact is the appearance of impropriety at best; something to which a person that works with children should avoid at all costs to protect him or herself and their family from. I know coaches that have taken kids into their own home when they had nowhere else to go. I know coaches that have given kids money for things like entrance exams that they wouldn't otherwise be able to take. More "appearance of impropriety", at least in your eyes. Perhaps we should all run scared, better to avoid any potential accusation. I'm glad you didn't need anything as a student/athelete/teenager beyond a couple of hours of after-school practice. The reality is, not all kids are like you... Mr. Lucky
Author bizbee Posted August 8, 2009 Author Posted August 8, 2009 OP, after your H divorced and then was single, how many women did he date? Did he have any STR/LTR during that period? I'm thinking he got entrenched in a certain mindset and you came along and validated it, so he's not going to change. I see men like this all the time. It's only when their wives reach a state of independence where the man isn't that pivotal to their lives that they choose to go or escalate their desires for equity. I'd say a good start at equity, and something he can do quite easily, is to limit contact with his charges to hours when they are actually practicing/participating in events. IMO, that's a great boundary and would promote a positive response in yourself. Suggest it. Tell him precisely what you need and how this action could help you. Be clear. Men like specifics. He did not have many, if any LTRs in the 9 years he was single. That's when his kids and coaching became his primary focus. There were a few STRs. Thanks so much for your feedback.
Author bizbee Posted August 8, 2009 Author Posted August 8, 2009 Wow, a red herring and a straw man, both in the same response. I'm simply going to guess that you've never been involved in this type of activity (I mean coaching, not the lurid trappings that you attempt to associate with it). Had you participated, you'd know that your standard of "absolutely no reason for an adult to be communicating with his or her students after hours" isn't correct, possible or desired by the participants or their parents. Here's a question for the OP: How many of the parents of your H's atheletes have contacted you or the school to ask that he stop communicating with their kids with this "inappropriate" contact? Mr. Lucky No one has contacted me or the school about his communicating with their kids as being inappropriate. He does stay focused on sports specific topics most of the time. And he does a pretty good job of communicating with parents, as well. It just bothers me because it interferes with our relationship. This is only a small part of the equation. Thanks.
Author bizbee Posted August 8, 2009 Author Posted August 8, 2009 How many of them know? Good point. Kids certainly don't tell their parents everything.
Author bizbee Posted August 8, 2009 Author Posted August 8, 2009 I just want to point out Mr. Lucky is true here. My highschool and college teachers always gave us their phone numbers, email addresses, facebook information, even the street they live on etc etc. They have told us to not call them at 2am talking about a paper or leaving late homework in front of their door since students have done that. I have professors that go drinking with their students or playing Wii. They do encourage their students to come and talk to them about issues- eating disorders, cutting, feeling blase about school, depression, abuse, peer pressure anytime From what I read your H is an excellent coach, I would bet his students ask him all kinds of questions. Great teachers and coaches are not only that but also are guidance counsellors, advisors, and friends with the upmost respect. Students will even invite him to go places with them. My peers love our best teachers and would want their input on a variety of subjects. I am pretty sure coaches recieve the same amount of esteem. I've never seen it from your side though OP. I guess the time commitment would be frustrating. I'm not saying it's right. I just wanted to point out students talk to their teachers/coaches after hours for a variety of reasons. Sometimes your coach would seem like the only person you can feel safe talking to... Your post is encouraging and supports the basis that H is a great coach. I just don't get to spend time with him during the seasons. This is not necessarily a question for you, but in general...so, do I just have to accept that he is an excellent coach and I won't spend anytime with him during season? I guess so, as long as all variables remain the same. That's why I keep saying that maybe I need to develop a hobby to take my mind off of it during the time he is coaching...only to grow apart.
Author bizbee Posted August 8, 2009 Author Posted August 8, 2009 When I was in high school, it was def frowned on for students and teachers to socialize after school hours. I was on the track team, coach held all contact with parents - not the team members alone. So if he needed any of us to know something that couldn't wait the weekend or even till the next day, he called our parents to tell them about it. I never wanted his number. Never thought to ask for it. Same for other clubs and activities I participated in. Who wants to socialize with adults when you're a teen? But back then, kids didn't have cell phones or web pages. If they had a computer, it belonged to the whole family and wasn't kept in the kid's room..... This is the same 'place' I'm coming from. I guess we're old school.
Author bizbee Posted August 8, 2009 Author Posted August 8, 2009 I feel for you. But it sounds to me like he IS listening to you, and willing to cut back. My husband performs, ALOT, after his full time job (where he works about 60 to 70 hours a week) is up. Some of it is church-related, but lately its just gigging. I get left behind with the kids quite a bit. But we have a simple rule that he's learned to abide by: drop everything and take ALL my calls. My husband loves performing and I would never want to tell him to choose that over me. Sounds like your H loves coaching, too. If he's willing to cut back and spend more time with you and the family, that's a good thing for you. It really sounds like he is at least trying to meet you halfway on this. Thanks! I do respect the fact that he loves it. Again, I just need to step away and let him be, I suppose. And hopefully after another year, he'll only coach 1 season...but for the rest of his life, so he says.
Author bizbee Posted August 8, 2009 Author Posted August 8, 2009 We made an appointment for MC for Aug. 31. That will be interesting. I've never had any before. I'll keep you posted. In the meantime, we are finally back to talking after two days of virtually ignoring each other because of this situation. When he is upset, he pushes me away and clams up. On the otherhand, I try to resolve problems quickly, so this has been very hurtful for me to deal with him not talking to me. My heart has hardened, which may not be a bad thing...it has made me have more of the 'I don't care' attitude, which is totally not my personality. I'm still thinking about taking up some type of hobby as an outlet. Something other than running. Although, I was planning on doing a 1/2 marathon in Nov, with my husband coaching me.
Author bizbee Posted August 8, 2009 Author Posted August 8, 2009 Bizbee, did you have any conversation with your H during your dating and engagement about your feelings on this? Is his approach and time invested in coaching any different after your marriage than it was before? Mr. Lucky Actually, I did not say anything. I tried to grin and bear it. I tried very hard to accept him for who he is. I guess I wasn't true to my feelings? At the time, perhaps I feared that would push him away, and it probably would have.
angie2443 Posted August 8, 2009 Posted August 8, 2009 Your husband may be the greatest coach in the world. He may do wonderful things for the people he coaches and maybe the happiest man on earth for doing this. However, if it makes you lonely in the marriage or hardens you to things, the marriage is going to fail or your going to end up bitter in the end. I hope MC can resolve these issues for you.
Author bizbee Posted August 10, 2009 Author Posted August 10, 2009 Your husband may be the greatest coach in the world. He may do wonderful things for the people he coaches and maybe the happiest man on earth for doing this. However, if it makes you lonely in the marriage or hardens you to things, the marriage is going to fail or your going to end up bitter in the end. I hope MC can resolve these issues for you. Thanks so much! I hope MC helps, as well. I believe you are absolutely correct. ...sad, but true. Although, I do hope to keep the marriage for the sake of our 8 kids.
D-Lish Posted August 10, 2009 Posted August 10, 2009 I know coaches that have taken kids into their own home when they had nowhere else to go. I know coaches that have given kids money for things like entrance exams that they wouldn't otherwise be able to take. More "appearance of impropriety", at least in your eyes. Perhaps we should all run scared, better to avoid any potential accusation. I'm glad you didn't need anything as a student/athelete/teenager beyond a couple of hours of after-school practice. The reality is, not all kids are like you... Mr. Lucky I can see you getting riled up Mr L.... but the truth be told, a Coach should never be interacting with children without parental supervision. It used to be different- but things have changed. My former basketball coach used to drive me home from my basketball games and talk about sex with his wife- he also used to tap my ass and freely make comments about my ass when no one was around. This man was my teacher and my coach when I was 11-12 years old. Crap like this happens all the time. You just can't discern between who is altruistic and who is a predator anymore. It IS inappropriate for a child to have a coach's cell # and vice versa. I know it sucks, but children need to be protected at all costs. Good people get lost in those costs sometimes.
Mr. Lucky Posted August 10, 2009 Posted August 10, 2009 I can see you getting riled up Mr L.... but the truth be told, a Coach should never be interacting with children without parental supervision. Do you feel the same way about Priests? Doctors? Both professions have had their own well-documented issues... Mr. Lucky
MSUE Posted August 10, 2009 Posted August 10, 2009 I can't be the only one that sees a very valid problem with this--students and teachers or coaches should not be conversing with each other outside of school, practices, or competitions. I find it very inappropriate that he would be texting, calling, and emailing with his students. If he needs to get a hold of a student, he needs to be going through their parents. Period. This is not only to protect the students, but also himself (and his family) from allegations of improper conduct (even if they aren't true). I would put my foot down on this behavior immediately. ok I so agree with you...very valid point...and for you the OP you knew what you were getting into...to make him change his passion and stop its not fair...you guys need to work on communication and compromise...join him at times...be the cheerleader here and there you might have fun and in exchange ask him to just slow down a bit and find a lil more time for your homelife...marriage is all about open lines of communications and compromise
Vet Posted August 10, 2009 Posted August 10, 2009 Do you feel the same way about Priests? Doctors? Both professions have had their own well-documented issues... Mr. Lucky Personally, I wouldn't let my child be alone with anyone, but your example is not the issue that was being discussed: anyone, a doctor, a priest, a coach, a UPS driver should not be texting with children outside of the rubric of their normal interactions. How inappropriate would you think it would be for a priest to be texting with a child outside of church? I think I already know your answer of anything goes, but indulge me.
Mr. Lucky Posted August 10, 2009 Posted August 10, 2009 Personally, I wouldn't let my child be alone with anyone You're remembering that these aren't young children but rather high school students that we're talking about? And if that's how you feel about your high school student, then you strike me as overly concerned about both the dangers your teenager faces and their ability to understand and deal with them. The year they graduate, we send to over to fight in Iraq - but don't leave them alone with a Coach or Priest, right ??? How inappropriate would you think it would be for a priest to be texting with a child outside of church? I believe that Priests involved with high school kids in youth groups text and email the kids on a regular basis. My own kids received that type of communication on a regular basis... Mr. Lucky
Vet Posted August 10, 2009 Posted August 10, 2009 You're remembering that these aren't young children but rather high school students that we're talking about? And if that's how you feel about your high school student, then you strike me as overly concerned about both the dangers your teenager faces and their ability to understand and deal with them. The year they graduate, we send to over to fight in Iraq - but don't leave them alone with a Coach or Priest, right ??? I believe that Priests involved with high school kids in youth groups text and email the kids on a regular basis. My own kids received that type of communication on a regular basis... Mr. Lucky I said "personally...my child", who is not a high school student. Nowhere in this thread have I stated that there is never a time that a high school-aged student would need to be alone with an adult. However, I have said that contact with each other must be restricted to the time that is required for the activity. Continued contact outside of this time is inappropriate, no matter what profession the adult is. As an aside, the fact that we send children to war doesn't strengthen your point at all.
Mr. Lucky Posted August 10, 2009 Posted August 10, 2009 As an aside, the fact that we send children to war doesn't strengthen your point at all. Nor was my post an attempt to justify the right or wrong in doing so. But I hope you're not disputing the fact that, barely out of high school, we ask them to go. I said "personally...my child", who is not a high school student. Then since we are talking about kids of high-school age, what does your concerns about your younger child have to do with this? I'm assuming that, as they get older, you'll allow them more unsupervised adult interactions... Mr. Lucky
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