Porn

[Vet]

Porn is a form of voyeurism. Taping oneself or a couple taping themselves in sexual activity is exhibitionism. Both have pathologies pointing back to childhood sexual abuse, childhood sexual ridicule, childhood sexual insecurities, and in some cases it is construed as antisocial behavior attributed to trauma of infidelity and/or betrayal. Victims of rape are also included in this number.

 

The underlying issue here is dysfunction, addiction, and extremism. Categorically placed into the classification of 'deviant' lifestyles and behaviors.

 

It is perplexing how adults can lose reality. One has to look to children unaffected by the trauma of adults to see the way things really should be between the sexes. Sweet, kind, generous, uplifting, intimate, loving and the pinnacle of the expression between two people.

 

When there is a variance from what is organic to our natures... that is what our natures are before adults get to a child... or before we become adults ourselves.. can be the clearest indication of what is actually natural.

 

I don't believe that anyone who engages in so called open and/or liberal sexual activities is expressing health and vigor. Rather, the resounding truth that seems to come through is that of being broken and damaged by life. We can progress upward. Or, we can progress downward. But in all honesty, when looking through the eyes of dysfunction it is impossible to know oneself when you've gone too far. Some kill for sexual thrills... others buy the tapes of the killing for a sexual thrill. Some consider taping sex with a child a thrill. Others in making the tape. Adult couples tape themselves having sex for a sexual thrill. Others watch the exhibitionists as voyeurs. And yet, those engaging in this are quite adamant... there's nothing wrong with it. Perhaps there are categories or subcategories within a particular act (video taping sex, etc...) that one may find objection to. But we are splitting hairs.

 

It is organically one and the same thing. Degrees.

 

But each speaks loud and clear to broken and hurting people. There is hardly anything written as the result of sound research that points to anything other than this conclusion. It is not healthy and it is not the 'sign' of a healthy libido. There are issues underlying it all.

 

Yeah, I'm with sxyNYCcpl on this one. Cite your sources or stop posting blatant falsehoods.

[soserious1]

When you are young, everything the opposite sex does is the subject of endless hours of speculation, searching for hidden meaning?

 

I'm in my early 50's now and have just accepted that most men watch a considerable amount of porn and that the best I can hope for, is that if I'm really nice, really warm, loving and bend over backwards to help, support and caretake for a man..

 

That he might let me finish him off when he's done watching.

[soserious1]

You didn't answer any of my questions. Maybe I'll need to repeat them.

 

What about the people (not just dudes) who use porn to aid their masturbation when they aren't in relationships, or when their partner is away, or when their partner doesn't feel like having sex? What about people who watch porn together with their partner (porn which both parties enjoy) and then get it on together?

 

Would you say that any form of alcohol is all-around bad since there are many people who allow alcohol to destroy their relationship?

 

Just to make sure of your views before I answer you only to have you contradict.

 

I've gotta say, wow, you prefer that your guy go around sleeping with other women, as per 'I'd have more respect for a guy who played the field than who played with himself.'?? Your guy must be immensely lucky then. Most of them try to restrict themselves to porn, but they definitely won't need to with you!

 

 

Nothing is more nausea producing than having a partner with several hard drives worth of porn who sits there and acts as if he deserves some sort of an award because he's never actually physically cheated on you. I'd much rather

have a man who openly and honestly pursues other women than to have one who expects me to kiss his arse because he's made such a huge sacrifice.

[Vet]

Nothing is more nausea producing than having a partner with several hard drives worth of porn who sits there and acts as if he deserves some sort of an award because he's never actually physically cheated on you. I'd much rather

have a man who openly and honestly pursues other women than to have one who expects me to kiss his arse because he's made such a huge sacrifice.

 

No, you wouldn't.

[soserious1]

No, you wouldn't.

 

Actually I'm in such a relationship now.

 

My marriage taught me that monogamy is basically a sham. My current relationship is non-exclusive by mutual consent and it's MUCH less stressful.

[soserious1]

After many months of a lot of thinking, deep soul searching what I've concluded is that I don't have a problem with porn. What I do have an issue with is the concept of monogamy. We promise to be faithful, to be LOYAL to just one person, then we spend our lives filling our eyes, minds and hearts with everyone but that person.. we're faithful as it were, loyal only in the sense of our physical actions. It just makes no sense to me.

 

Be with me when it works for us both, be with others when

it doesn't, no unrealistic promises, no lies.

[Gamine]

After many months of a lot of thinking, deep soul searching what I've concluded is that I don't have a problem with porn. What I do have an issue with is the concept of monogamy. We promise to be faithful, to be LOYAL to just one person, then we spend our lives filling our eyes, minds and hearts with everyone but that person.. we're faithful as it were, loyal only in the sense of our physical actions. It just makes no sense to me.

 

Be with me when it works for us both, be with others when

it doesn't, no unrealistic promises, no lies.

 

 

And you know what? I applaud you because you own your life AND you have no need to play the game any longer. If a man and woman can't be real, regardless of what REAL is, then it is nothing but a shallow pile of you know what.

[Gamine]

Yeah, I'm with sxyNYCcpl on this one. Cite your sources or stop posting blatant falsehoods.

 

Look them up yourself. Type in the words "Exhibitionism" and "Voyeurism" in the Google search area of your computer screen... hit enter... click on the subject, read, and comprehend. It is there for the taking. Enjoy.

[sxyNYCcpl]

Look them up yourself. Type in the words "Exhibitionism" and "Voyeurism" in the Google search area of your computer screen... hit enter... click on the subject, read, and comprehend. It is there for the taking. Enjoy.

 

I did as you suggested.

 

Said google search resulted in primarily 2 categories of results. The first was internet porn. Surely you did not intend to send us to that.

 

The second was talk of pathology in those who practice exhibitionism and/or voyeurism with other UNWILLING participants. I have been quite clear that I am talking about activities that include only CONSENTING adults, ergo these pathologies do not apply.

 

Care to try again?

[Gamine]

I did as you suggested.

 

Said google search resulted in primarily 2 categories of results. The first was internet porn. Surely you did not intend to send us to that.

 

The second was talk of pathology in those who practice exhibitionism and/or voyeurism with other UNWILLING participants. I have been quite clear that I am talking about activities that include only CONSENTING adults, ergo these pathologies do not apply.

 

Care to try again?

 

 

Keep reading.

[sxyNYCcpl]

Keep reading.

 

Nah. You made a claim, you back it up. I already gave you more of the benefit of the doubt than I usually do. You have claimed those like us are pathological, back it up or retract your claim.

[Els]

Nothing is more nausea producing than having a partner with several hard drives worth of porn who sits there and acts as if he deserves some sort of an award because he's never actually physically cheated on you. I'd much rather

have a man who openly and honestly pursues other women than to have one who expects me to kiss his arse because he's made such a huge sacrifice.

 

Umm did you intend to quote some other post? I never said any man deserves an AWARD or for his partner to kiss arse just because he doesn't physically cheat. Not physically cheating is a REQUIREMENT for a monogamous relationship, not a FAVOUR. It's something that's expected; certainly noone deserves any awards for it!

 

What I'm pointing out is that it's HIGHLY unusual for someone to prefer their partner to physically cheat than to watch porn. You mentioned in a later post that you decided to be in an open relationship because you didn't want the pressures of monogamy and that's great, if it's what you really want. But if the REASON you're doing so is because you're thinking 'He's not gonna be faithful anyway since he'll be doing porn so why not just go all the way and have an open relationship", I must say you're quite misguided and I honestly don't think you'll be happy.

[Els]

Excellent point. It perfectly illustrates the disgusting hypocrisy of men who GET OFF on "those" women in porn, but at the same time belittle them for what they do (slut, ho, wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole, yadda yadda). So they belittle the women for getting him off? How wicked is that? It speak volumes about the character, integrity, intelligence (or lack thereof) and morals of these men. So, keep on posting and fighting, Jersey, and don't let them drag you down, you always have valid points.

 

While I disagree with the majority of JS' points, I do agree with this. If a man is going to liberally enjoy the activities performed in his porn collection, he definitely SHOULD be liberal enough to accept that the women performing them have done nothing wrong. It's a sad double standard that I see, especially that of men who expect sex from their partner by date number three and then turn around and call women who have sex outside of long-term relationships or have many sexual partners 'sluts, hos, etc'.

 

Fortunately there are quite a few men with the wisdom and integrity to partake in it and also not judge the women who do so as well.

[You'reasian]

While I disagree with the majority of JS' points, I do agree with this. If a man is going to liberally enjoy the activities performed in his porn collection, he definitely SHOULD be liberal enough to accept that the women performing them have done nothing wrong. It's a sad double standard that I see, especially that of men who expect sex from their partner by date number three and then turn around and call women who have sex outside of long-term relationships or have many sexual partners 'sluts, hos, etc'.

 

Fortunately there are quite a few men with the wisdom and integrity to partake in it and also not judge the women who do so as well.

 

There's a difference between being a slut and a ho.

 

Sluts are any person who really likes sex. Males included. Women often call their guy friend's sluts - more of a joking friend name, but it happens.

 

Ho's are the female equivalent of players.

[Vet]

While I disagree with the majority of JS' points, I do agree with this. If a man is going to liberally enjoy the activities performed in his porn collection, he definitely SHOULD be liberal enough to accept that the women performing them have done nothing wrong. It's a sad double standard that I see, especially that of men who expect sex from their partner by date number three and then turn around and call women who have sex outside of long-term relationships or have many sexual partners 'sluts, hos, etc'.

 

Fortunately there are quite a few men with the wisdom and integrity to partake in it and also not judge the women who do so as well.

 

There's a distinction that you're missing. If someone looks at porn, then yes, I agree that they shouldn't cast moral judgments (that they're a whore or what have you); that would be hypocritical. However, someone can look at porn and be against having a relationship with someone that has sex for a living. I see no hypocrisy there; there are many valid reasons I wouldn't want to be with someone that had sex with other men, even if it is her job.

[Jersey Shortie]

Excellent point. It perfectly illustrates the disgusting hypocrisy of men who GET OFF on "those" women in porn, but at the same time belittle them for what they do (slut, ho, wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole, yadda yadda). So they belittle the women for getting him off?  How wicked is that? It speak volumes about the character, integrity, intelligence (or lack thereof) and morals of these men. So, keep on posting and fighting, Jersey, and don't let them drag you down, you always have valid points.

 

Yeap, I agree. I don't call the women in porn names. It's funny but I bet I hold more respect for these women then the men that defend porn do. Women loose all around. We aren't allowed to be sexual if it's outside the confines of what a man is comfortible, because we get called names for it. But we are expected to be okay with EVERYTHING sexual when it comes to him. And even be "thankful" for the meager scraps men decide we deserve to have thrown our way. I mean really, I truly love men and I know many will argue I don't. But what I really do hate, is that a woman's worth is viewed less then that of a man's. We aren't equal. Men have ruled the world for ions. And while women have more rights, if men don't ever really respect women and treat them like equals, we will always matter less. That's what frustrates me. Just seeing how little women really matter to men.

 

Chubbi

I agree as well. JS and Gamine are making some good points. Some of these ways I've never thought about!

 

Thank you Chubbi. I am glad that I helped you look at things in ways you didn't think about. Posters do that for me as well and even if some don't agree. Your posts reminds me that some do and are thinking about the issue differently.

 

 

You’reasian

 

JS, as much as I disagree with you, I agree that a man and woman should ultimately come together, trust one another and take care of the daughters etc.

 

But that doesn't happen. Men don't protect women anymore. They might protect women of their own families at face value, but how many men behind closed doors contribute to the defacement and degradement of women? More then I suspect men can even honestly admit to themselves. And if you are a man that can admit it to yourself but you still look at porn or whatever, then you don't care as long as you get to get off. You don't care about women as much as you might *wish* you did.

 

Sex is an important part of a relationship. Most guys who aren't in one and not participating in alot of hookups, will look at porn. Some realize its just porn and it doesn't affect the way they look at a woman's heart.  Some don't.

 

A woman's heart? as if that even matters. It's VERY clear that what matters to men about women is not her heart.

 

Heck, this statement you made reminded of something from last Oct. I live in a small town and during Halloween my town looks like something out of a movie-set. It's really something to see. I love seeing the trick-or-treaters. Last year my mom and I decided to meet for coffee in town and watch the activity. Holy cow! Do you know how many young girls (12-15) we saw wearing outfits that you would see in a porno ? Sexy cop girl, sexy fairy, sexy kitten, sexy sexy sexy. An experience that would have made me felt happy seeing the kids have a good time felt dirty. These girls had on platform stripper shoes and short skirts and thigh highs. I can NOT understand the parents that let them go out like that. And I can only imagine how many completely pedos loved that scene. A few days before that I went to the costume store to get cat ears for my Josie and the Pussycats costume. There was a 15 year old girl there asking her dad if she could buy a "sexy strawberry short-cake " costume. Am I the only one that thinks that's messed up? You don't think men or people in general aren't affected by porn? Take a look at our culture. Take a look this Halloween when they start putting out costumes. Take a look at how many women try to look more liek the girls in the porn movies and ACT more like the girls in the porn movies because men like it. Women aren't celebrated for their true seuxality and individuality. However, when men talk about sex and porn and alot often they say complimentary things to women who ACT more like the things they see in porn. Please don't tell me most men (and people) are not affected by porn.

 

 

So, I say to you that a man who is in a loving relationship with a woman, would ideally put the porn away and in most cases reduce his consumption of it.

 

What's the point of a woman having sex with her man, putting effort into it, and doing her best to be sexy and fun; if he is only going to "reduce" his porn consumption? I mean heck, if you have sex with him or not and he is still looking porn. What's the point?

 

I don't care who you are, most guys (married or single) will still take a look at playboy once in a while - maybe penthouse.

 

Yeap, I am sure they will. Because men need variety. And as a woman, who wants one man to love, support and value her beauty and think her feminity is enough, it plain hurts. I am young now but when I hit my 40s and I am with a man that wants to look at 20 year olds in porn and playboy, I know I am going to feel even less certain in my own sexuality. The things men value about women, youth and variety, make women pretty worthless since none of us can be young our whole lives or be new and exciting every second. Call me insecure with disdain but at least admit the truth in why women are easily insecure in a world where EVEN their own men don't value them enough to fight for them, protect them, and turn their heads from other women. One reason women are insecure is because they see how easily men are swayed by someone new. And how much men desire to look at and think about that someone new.

 

And its not just about us guys. Women look at porn and use it as stimulation too (as we've previously discussed).

 

Some women do. But porn doesn't treat men the same way it treats women. And when women look at porn, it's even more less likely they are looking at it because they desire other men so greatly. When a woman loves a man, he is her fantasy. I am sure that makes men feel good too. But it's clear that the only way a woman gets to be a man's fantasy if she is some fake porn creation. So maybe when it comes to men, it's better to be the his fantasy then his reality. Men spend alot of time defending and thinking about their fantasies it seems. We don't live in a world where women created a medium of 18 year old males in schoolboy outfits are out there to sleep with. Men did. And as a woman, you clearly see through porn what truly men want. And as a woman, it sucks knowing how different the things men value and wish women to be that they are just aren't ever goign to be. Being a real woman in this day and age that wants to give love and receive it isn't good enough. Now every guy with an internet connection thinks that lesbians and cheerleaders is what completes him. Otherwise men wouldn't fight so hard for it.

 

 

 

I'm in my early 50's now and have just accepted that most men watch a considerable amount of porn and that the best I can hope for, is that if I'm really nice, really warm, loving and bend over backwards to help, support and caretake for a man..

 

That he might let me finish him off when he's done watching.

 

That seems to be the truth. Which makes me really sad but that seems to be how most men feel. I hope I come back as a man in my next life. That way I might have to pay for a few more dates, spend more money and be more pro0active trying to get sex. But at least I can run around patting myself on the back for the fact that I desire other women and try to convince my woman to just accept it because I am a "guy" and she should be thankful that at least I come home to her everynight for her to cook men food and be ready after we watch porn of girls that have perfect bodies that I really wished I was with.

[Jersey Shortie]

Originally Posted by Jersey Shortie

They wouldn't. And they wouldn't like it if women were getting off on men being humilated and used. But it's suppose to be okay if it's a woman. Imagine if the tables where turned ? And it was wives and girlfriends, mothers and daughters that loved seeing men called names (fag, a-hole, loser, pig) and taking self gratification from it? Maybe these men were not even having sex with teh woman. Maybe what women liked to see was men get taken for all he was worth finaically and called names in the process. And then women could turn around and say that these men liked it, that it's okay because these men consented to do it, that it was *just* fantasy. And these women then turned around and raised young men and had relationships with men and said they respected them but behind closed doors sure did love to see them disrespected and used up. In this world, to men, a woman's worth is less then that of a man. No man will ever have to be put into the vunerable positions that women are put into.

 

If you are a man, I really REALLY want you to read this paragraph and really think about it. Even comment on it . So far no man has.

[northstar1]

Do you know how many young girls (12-15) we saw wearing outfits that you would see in a porno ? Sexy cop girl, sexy fairy, sexy kitten, sexy sexy sexy. An experience that would have made me felt happy seeing the kids have a good time felt dirty. These girls had on platform stripper shoes and short skirts and thigh highs. I can NOT understand the parents that let them go out like that. And I can only imagine how many completely pedos loved that scene. A few days before that I went to the costume store to get cat ears for my Josie and the Pussycats costume. There was a 15 year old girl there asking her dad if she could buy a "sexy strawberry short-cake " costume. Am I the only one that thinks that's messed up? You don't think men or people in general aren't affected by porn? Take a look at our culture. Take a look this Halloween when they start putting out costumes. Take a look at how many women try to look more liek the girls in the porn movies and ACT more like the girls in the porn movies because men like it.........."

 

The blame for htis falls more on pop culture than porn. Look at the music/film/tv industry for their inspiration, not porn.

[silverfish]

i wish young girls would get away from that whole scene. There are a lot of female artists out there that are successful, sexy, funny, intelligent etc such as Bjork, madonna, joanna newsome, pj harvey, debbie harry, lily allen, chrissy hynde, la roux, alison goldfrapp, lady gaga..

[Vet]

If you are a man, I really REALLY want you to read this paragraph and really think about it. Even comment on it . So far no man has.

 

Probably because like the rest of your illogical ramblings, you don't make sense at all here either. What you're talking about not only doesn't have anything to do at all with pornography, but also has no foundation in reality. You seem to think that all men are behind closed doors in secret laughing it up to each other, slapping themselves on the back, and commending each other on treating and calling women whores, sluts, and all of these derogatives that you attribute them to believing. You would think they do this, outside of the issue of pornography, because you hate men because they make you insecure about yourself. Your issue is much, much closer than you think.

[Brady_to_Moss]

You would think they do this, outside of the issue of pornography, because you hate men because they make you insecure about yourself. Your issue is much, much closer than you think.

 

 

I agree. I dont know where your going with this Jersey..but i watch porn here and there and i dont degrade women..i love sex and everything about it so who cares.

 

(That seems to be the truth. Which makes me really sad but that seems to be how most men feel.)

 

Not at all. I dont know where your getting your info from..but dont take it out on guys like me and all of my friends who are great guys...girls with your attitude ruin it for us guys

[silverfish]

@ vet. Men do this frequently in groups not behind behind closed doors but to women they work with, deal with every day, who work in shops, restaurants, bars, offices. You hear this from men, so do we. Women choose who they want to spend time with and if they choose to laugh it off, to laugh of the fact that men get away with insulting women, so be it. It's not for me though, and as I stated previously i doubt men would put up with it on behalf of their mothers, sisters, daughters....if women choose to accept it and perpetrate it then that is their choice. It's not mine though nor the choice of any man I chose to be be with or that of my children.

[Vet]

@ vet. Men do this frequently in groups not behind behind closed doors but to women they work with, deal with every day, who work in shops, restaurants, bars, offices. You hear this from men, so do we. Women choose who they want to spend time with and if they choose to laugh it off, to laugh of the fact that men get away with insulting women, so be it. It's not for me though, and as I stated previously i doubt men would put up with it on behalf of their mothers, sisters, daughters....if women choose to accept it and perpetrate it then that is their choice. It's not mine though nor the choice of any man I chose to be be with or that of my children.

 

I'm not saying that some men don't do this, but to think that it's an absolute is silly. Of course there are mouth breathing, knuckle-draggers out there, but Jersey Shortie and a lot of people in this thread think that by the single fact that a man watches pornography, he is a pussy hound that is actively degrading women as much as if he walked up to one on the street, called her a whore, and proceeded to sexually assault her. These people see no moral distinction between the two; it's plain wrong, and it's intellectually dishonest.

[silverfish]

Maybe they don't but you want the best for yourself personally, and you would want the best for your children, yourself, your partner. You have to ask yourself questions of someone who watches porn - it is an issue, a habit, a compulsion, not a fact of life, same as drinking, smoking, taking coke, whatever.

 

It is an issue that comes up which generally has a negative impact on relationships in the answer to the OP's question. I would like to turn it around and ask what postive impact it has on relationships (I mean human relationships not an advanced experiment in sexual lubrication)

[Vet]

Maybe they don't but you want the best for yourself personally, and you would want the best for your children, yourself, your partner. You have to ask yourself questions of someone who watches porn - it is an issue, a habit, a compulsion, not a fact of life, same as drinking, smoking, taking coke, whatever.

 

Maybe it's an issue to you, and that's your business, but don't try to profess that it's a universal problem that has to be rectified. Plenty of people don't have your hang ups.

 

It is an issue that comes up which generally has a negative impact on relationships in the answer to the OP's question. I would like to turn it around and ask what postive impact it has on relationships (I mean human relationships not an advanced experiment in sexual lubrication)

 

People have posted all about the positive impacts it has on relationships in this thread. I'll recap it for you:

 

1) When two people have libidos that are incompatible (i.e. I want sex three times a day, but she only wants it once or our schedules conflict)--I don't create added stress for her in that I have to paw at her and coerce sex, and she doesn't feel like she's rejecting me or being a less than good partner.

 

2) When two people aren't very experienced with sex, pornography can be an education tool (e.g. "Oh, I didn't know you could do that", "That looks sexy, let's try that").

 

3) Foreplay. Enough said.

 

4) Pornography tears down misguided, ignorant, and Puritanical reservations of sex. By making sex acceptable to the mainstream, we open ourselves to more than missionary sex with a sheet in between us.

 

Is that good enough for you, or shall I go on?