Porn

[utterer of lies]

Well the stuff I've seen generally has a peroxide blonde, orange woman with fake breasts, going down on a man for about ten minutes while looking up at him with a sort of 'wow I'm soooo lucky you let me do this to you' look on her face. I could go on but it would be frankly obscene to go into details.

 

There is no resemblance at all to how people behave in real life...I wish there was because it would be more erotic and interesting. It annoys me because it doesn't bear any resemblence to what really turns women on, or how to make them come.

 

So all porn is evil and degrading because you selected bad porn for yourself?

[AlektraClementine]

I don't want to get too far into this but I too, am very curious to know how non-porn-watchers know so much about what goes on in porn. How the women are treated, what they all look like, what they're engaging in. If you don't like it, I assume you don't watch it. So how have you become such an expert on what it's all about?

[Jersey Shortie]

Alektra, porn is so mainstream I bet 12 year olds know the stereotype that fits for a porn star. Sad but true. Also personally for me, I spent some time trying to accept and understand why men felt that real women were so defeient that they need these over the top fantasies to appease themselves as men. I spent time *trying* to watch it with boyfriends and I spent time looking it up myself because I wanted to understand men better. And yes, I do think porn is a reflection of what men desire and wnat. And it STINKS as a woman to sit there and watc hthe man you love get it up for other women and then have expectations that you should be so thrilled wit hthe scraps of attention he throws your way when he is ready to get it on. and it STINKS as a woman to see the level of debasement women recieved through porn that is perpuated by men that have daughters, wives and girlfriends. It has become clear to me that men just don't really give a darn too much about women if it inters with their porn. And it's okay to treat women like human waste as long as he gets to finish himself off. A man today has no responsiblity for himself in treating women like human beings apparently and men will try and fool thmeslves with lines like "it's *only* a movie" or "those girls choose to do it". It's not only a movie. NOT ONE MAN HERE would say "it's only a movie" if men were being used and discarded, called names, tossed aside and repersented so degradingly that you have to wonder how women could even like men if they so enjoy seeing them used. Those girls choose to do it but millions of men's with families of their own choose to sustain it.

 

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Jaytb

I don't want to get into this debate much more, but if you have a problem with fantasy or escapism, then I think there's a lot more stuff than porn you should be having a problem with, like romance novels, movies, TV, video games, etc. Most of our modern world is built on fantasy and escapism.

 

I don't have a problem with fantasy and escapism. I have a problem with men needed to turn to a product that is in reality, about female debasement. And turning women into something that it matters not their needs or desires, but all that matters is a man's. And turning expectations on female beauty into some plastic drone style beauty. I have a problem when fantasy and escapism is about using up one gender and giving them no respect through that fantasy and escapism.

 

I think no one responded because we don't understand this. There's plenty of Jews and African Americans in porn (both men and women). And again, nothing is stopping women in porn from leaving that industry. If they had a problem with how they're being treated, then they should just leave. In fact, I believe they would already have left. Not to mention porn is actually a big industry, are you going to tell us that everyone is mistreated? I would say most women in porn are doing it because they want to, and again, no one is holding a gun to their heads.

 

Of course there are both Jews and African Americans in porn. That is not the point. The point is that we would NEVER stand to see an entire culture, as we have previously in our history, degraded, demeaned and used as we do with women through porn. It is still okay to treat women like they are nothing. And men with families of their own and women they love don't care. They don't care about how women are treated. Because it's more important to get off then show women respect.

 

And what does the the fact that women choose to do porn have ANYTHING to do with the men that choose to watch it? Most people here aren't dating pornstars. Most men here are looking at porn.

 

And here is a fun fact for you. Most women in porn last 6- 1 year. They don't last much longer because it is an industry that beats women down. Not lifts them up. Most women don't end up like Jemma Jaminson. And evey her, with all her money, is a head case that has been pretty open about her issues. Had even turned lesbian once because of the things she experiences with men. Women leave the porn industry all the time. Because they come to learn that the fantasy it shows isn't the reality. Most women don't make it big from the industry. They might make a couple movies but nothing bit. It is so physically and mentally gruelling. New women come in. Young women, impressionable women, women that feel they are at the edge and do it as a last result. Very few women get into that industry because they love it. Ever hear an ex-porn star talk about the industry? How most are on drugs to cope, you think women get treated nicely behind scenes if they aren't even getting treated nicely infront of the camera most times? Open your eyes. Women leave very day! They come to learn what the industry is really about. It seems to me that while it's being preached that "it's just fantasy", quite a few of you seem to be buying into the fantasy and projecting it into real life. If you have 1/10th the knowledge about what it takes to turn a woman on, you KNOW that the majority of things done through porn don't have one thing to do with what really turns a woman on. the object isn't to turn women on. It's to make sure men get off because that is really what matters to men. Not anything to do with the woman. She is just a face with a nice body and pretty worthless overall. So the message: Women are worthless to men and are only good for their T&A. Oh but that's right women, don't let that upset you! How dare you! You should LOVe seeing your own men look at porn about 18 year old school girls and being called four letter words or used just to please men. That's what women are here for yes? Not to be loved, respected or truly pleasured themselves. Silly women thinking that they should be treated with respect.

[Jersey Shortie]

Gamine

 

So is eating. Porn to the eating disordered is excess. Whether it is extreme eating or extreme starvation. Balance in appetite and eating yields a balanced body. One eats when hungry and is fine with it. The obese may have an addiction, yet it is defended as merely a desire to eat. Food is available so why deny the excess? Is extreme eating with an undue focus on food an addiction or a sign of an imbalance? At what point in the extreme does it signify something is out of balance?

 

How thin is thin enough for the eating disorder with an addiction to starvation? Can the individual locked in this affinity ascertain or see their true objective reality? They look in the mirror amidst the addiction and see a fat person. Those not caught up in the addiction fantasy see skin and bones.

 

 

While I will agree that porn is comparable to over eating, I do not see how no porn is the starvation to sex. If that is infact what you are saying. I suspect way more men in this world are addicted to porn. More then care to even admit to themselves. We live in a nation where over-eating happens but is looked down on. And where over-sexual stimulation is justified as okay. I wonder if people even know what normal sex is anymore or what a normal level of interest in sex is. I don't think are sexual drives are 100% about nature in this day and age. I think the over stimulation has made a false ideal about sexuality and how often we should be seeking out sexual imagery or situations.

[Vet]

Alektra, porn is so mainstream I bet 12 year olds know the stereotype that fits for a porn star. Sad but true. Also personally for me, I spent some time trying to accept and understand why men felt that real women were so defeient that they need these over the top fantasies to appease themselves as men. I spent time *trying* to watch it with boyfriends and I spent time looking it up myself because I wanted to understand men better. And yes, I do think porn is a reflection of what men desire and wnat. And it STINKS as a woman to sit there and watc hthe man you love get it up for other women and then have expectations that you should be so thrilled wit hthe scraps of attention he throws your way when he is ready to get it on. and it STINKS as a woman to see the level of debasement women recieved through porn that is perpuated by men that have daughters, wives and girlfriends. It has become clear to me that men just don't really give a darn too much about women if it inters with their porn. And it's okay to treat women like human waste as long as he gets to finish himself off. A man today has no responsiblity for himself in treating women like human beings apparently and men will try and fool thmeslves with lines like "it's *only* a movie" or "those girls choose to do it". It's not only a movie. NOT ONE MAN HERE would say "it's only a movie" if men were being used and discarded, called names, tossed aside and repersented so degradingly that you have to wonder how women could even like men if they so enjoy seeing them used. Those girls choose to do it but millions of men's with families of their own choose to sustain it.

 

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Jaytb

 

 

I don't have a problem with fantasy and escapism. I have a problem with men needed to turn to a product that is in reality, about female debasement. And turning women into something that it matters not their needs or desires, but all that matters is a man's. And turning expectations on female beauty into some plastic drone style beauty. I have a problem when fantasy and escapism is about using up one gender and giving them no respect through that fantasy and escapism.

 

 

 

Of course there are both Jews and African Americans in porn. That is not the point. The point is that we would NEVER stand to see an entire culture, as we have previously in our history, degraded, demeaned and used as we do with women through porn. It is still okay to treat women like they are nothing. And men with families of their own and women they love don't care. They don't care about how women are treated. Because it's more important to get off then show women respect.

 

And what does the the fact that women choose to do porn have ANYTHING to do with the men that choose to watch it? Most people here aren't dating pornstars. Most men here are looking at porn.

 

And here is a fun fact for you. Most women in porn last 6- 1 year. They don't last much longer because it is an industry that beats women down. Not lifts them up. Most women don't end up like Jemma Jaminson. And evey her, with all her money, is a head case that has been pretty open about her issues. Had even turned lesbian once because of the things she experiences with men. Women leave the porn industry all the time. Because they come to learn that the fantasy it shows isn't the reality. Most women don't make it big from the industry. They might make a couple movies but nothing bit. It is so physically and mentally gruelling. New women come in. Young women, impressionable women, women that feel they are at the edge and do it as a last result. Very few women get into that industry because they love it. Ever hear an ex-porn star talk about the industry? How most are on drugs to cope, you think women get treated nicely behind scenes if they aren't even getting treated nicely infront of the camera most times? Open your eyes. Women leave very day! They come to learn what the industry is really about. It seems to me that while it's being preached that "it's just fantasy", quite a few of you seem to be buying into the fantasy and projecting it into real life. If you have 1/10th the knowledge about what it takes to turn a woman on, you KNOW that the majority of things done through porn don't have one thing to do with what really turns a woman on. the object isn't to turn women on. It's to make sure men get off because that is really what matters to men. Not anything to do with the woman. She is just a face with a nice body and pretty worthless overall. So the message: Women are worthless to men and are only good for their T&A. Oh but that's right women, don't let that upset you! How dare you! You should LOVe seeing your own men look at porn about 18 year old school girls and being called four letter words or used just to please men. That's what women are here for yes? Not to be loved, respected or truly pleasured themselves. Silly women thinking that they should be treated with respect.

 

It really is sad that you don't think more of yourself than the way men look at you. Really sad.

[Jersey Shortie]

Vet

This is the third or fourth time you've tried to use this "argument" in this thread. It doesn't even make sense. We do treat blacks, Jewish, and all different kinds of races and creeds of women this way--there isn't just white pornography. What are you even trying to say? Could I imagine if we were to film someone whipping it out and jerking off on a random black person in the form of an assault? Hire a Jewish person to come in and call him a bitch? No, I can't, because it doesn't even make sense in the context of what we're talking about. Stop trying to tie your position to racism, it doesn't help you.

 

 

Yes, we certainly do treat black women, Jewish women and white ones in porn the same way. Key here is that you admit that it's women that get treated thus far. But my example has nothing to do with the Jewish women or AA women in porn. If we treated the Jewish Culture or African American culture in the same degrading and demeaning manner we treat women through porn, even if we labled it "fantasy", do you think Jewish women OR men would be happy with that excuse? Do you think that Jewish or AA culture would stand to hear another race call them names through film and be happy to see it? Use themand be happy about it? Even if it was under "fantasy"? Heck NO. That is why any films made about jewish culture or AA culture is about their suffering. NOT about getting pleasure from their suffering. We wouldn't stand for movies, even in "just fatantsy" that defiled and demeaned a whole race. Why do we stand for it when it comes to a gender?

[Vet]

Yes, we certainly do treat black women, Jewish women and white ones in porn the same way. Key here is that you admit that it's women that get treated thus far. But my example has nothing to do with the Jewish women or AA women in porn. If we treated the Jewish Culture or African American culture in the same degrading and demeaning manner we treat women through porn, even if we labled it "fantasy", do you think Jewish women OR men would be happy with that excuse? Do you think that Jewish or AA culture would stand to hear another race call them names through film and be happy to see it? Use themand be happy about it? Even if it was under "fantasy"? Heck NO. That is why any films made about jewish culture or AA culture is about their suffering. NOT about getting pleasure from their suffering. We wouldn't stand for movies, even in "just fatantsy" that defiled and demeaned a whole race. Why do we stand for it when it comes to a gender?

 

And as I've said, this doesn't. make. any. sense. You are trying to compare oranges to apples. Minstrel shows =/= pornography.

[utterer of lies]

And as I've said, this doesn't. make. any. sense. You are trying to compare oranges to apples. Minstrel shows =/= pornography.

 

It does make sense. It's called 'persecution complex'.

[silverfish]

'I don't want to get too far into this but I too, am very curious to know how non-porn-watchers know so much about what goes on in porn. How the women are treated, what they all look like, what they're engaging in. If you don't like it, I assume you don't watch it. So how have you become such an expert on what it's all about?'

 

Sorry I don't know how to do this quote thing.

 

Well I watched a bit when I was younger out of curiosity, and my ex watched a bit when we first got online. He found it boring and had similar opinions to me about it.

I work with someone who used to work in the porn industry every day, and she tells me stuff all the time. I wouldn't call myself an expert but I think I am entitled to an opinion.

 

You have to wonder how many of those films submitted to youporn and sites like that have the consent of all involved, no?

[sxyNYCcpl]

I do think porn is a reflection of what men desire and wnat. And it STINKS as a woman to sit there and watc hthe man you love get it up for other women and then have expectations that you should be so thrilled wit hthe scraps of attention he throws your way when he is ready to get it on. and it STINKS as a woman to see the level of debasement women recieved through porn that is perpuated by men that have daughters, wives and girlfriends. It has become clear to me that men just don't really give a darn too much about women if it inters with their porn.

 

Let me relate a story to you.

 

This is a true story. This is not I heard a friend of a friend said something, this happened to me, less than 24 hours ago.

 

Yesterday, my wife and I spent the day at the beach with about 20 of our friends. Some were old, dear friends, some we just met yesterday. Now, this beach is clothing optional, and my friends being what they are, most of them were indeed clothing free more or less. It was a glorious day, beautiful weather, beautiful friends, really the kind of event that makes life worth living. If only every day could be like that.

 

At one point in the afternoon an interesting thing happened. 2 couples got into a tent that had an open door strategically pointed where the rest of our group could see inside, but for the most part others could not. These two couples proceeded to have a foursome in direct view of myself and all of the rest of our group. Some of us paid attention; others went about with their conversations or whatever else they were doing. But for the fact that this was live and in person, it was porn, as I define the word anyway. Had I filmed it and subsequently watched it on my computer or television, or released it as a commercial production, it would certainly be worthy of the title.

 

So would you be so kind as to explain to me exactly who and how anyone was exploited in this situation, because I didn’t see it… and I was there!

[missdependant]

As for the men being exploited - what do you think ?

 

There are TONS of different kinds of porn you can watch, and yes.. some of it involves women humiliating and exploiting men.

[silverfish]

I don't think what you described is porn though. If you had filmed it and submitted it onto a website without their consent for anyone to see on the internet, then yes obviously that would be exploiting them.

 

If my current boyfriend filmed us having sex for our own personal use that would be our decision, but if he then showed it to his friends or put it 'out there' then that would be exploiting me.

 

Same as if I was sunbathing topless on a nudist beach, that's not 'porn'. Someone then taking a picture and jacking off over it doesn't make it porn either.

 

What would happen if a kid walked past and saw your friends? The parents would probably have called the police. Indecent exposure in public is against the law over here.

 

People get up to all sorts of stuff and sometimes regret it later. Modern technology can be great but it also allows images and films to be circulated ad infinitum. I seriously can't see how this is a positive thing

[sxyNYCcpl]

I don't think what you described is porn though. If you had filmed it and submitted it onto a website without their consent for anyone to see on the internet, then yes obviously that would be exploiting them.

 

Agreed, and I personally would never do such a thing absent binding, legal, signed releases. I am not concerned however that any significant amount of "commercial" porn exists absent said releases because the penalties are quite harsh. I concede that some of the amateur stuff, especially web based "post your homemade porn" stuff, may be online without the knowledge of all participants and I do not like that. Though that is my own personal favorite genre, as I find it is more authentic.

 

What would happen if a kid walked past and saw your friends? The parents would probably have called the police. Indecent exposure in public is against the law over here.

 

Considering the layout of where we were camped out, a kid wandering past and seeing the action, while not completely impossible, was extremely unlikely. Given that it was a CO beach, were something like that to occur, I would think it would be more along the lines of public lewdness as opposed to indecent exposure because by definition where we were what is normally considered "indecent" exposure is legal. For what it's worth I only saw 1 kid the whole day and the beach was packed, I'd say 4000-5000 at least spread out along a half mile or so.

[Jersey Shortie]

There are TONS of different kinds of porn you can watch, and yes.. some of it involves women humiliating and exploiting men.

 

Yes, that is true and while I don't agree with that either, I don't want to see either gender treated thus, the plain truth is that 95% of the time it's women that are being humilated and exploited. And it's more likely that the man of the family is looking at something that degrades women then it is his wife is looking at something that degrades men. There is not the boon of porn that humilates men that there is that humilates women. Women have nothing equal to the porn industry in terms of something they enjoy that demeans an entire gender.

 

 

And as I've said, this doesn't. make. any. sense. You are trying to compare oranges to apples. Minstrel shows =/= pornography.

 

It absolutley makes sense. Our society would not tolerate the degradement of a religious or ethinic culture even if it was under the pretext of being "fantasy" for just the thrill and fun of it to. Why do we allow the degradement of women under the pretext of "fantasy"? I infact think this a very fair question. If you can bring up other forms of fantasy, I.E. movies and video games, how is this situation also not comparable. Expand your mind. It's ironic that in this day and age where we are very sensitive to ethnic and culture groups that we still allow the debasement of the female gender under the guise of "it's just fantasy". But we would never as a culture allow the debasement of a certain group of people related to culture or ethinicity, that included men as well, and shrug our shoulds and say "it's just fantasy and good fun". People would be up in arms! It is a man's world and the men in it do not care enough about women in general, or their own wives, gfs or daughters by extension of being women, to offer respect to women.

[Vet]

I don't think what you described is porn though. If you had filmed it and submitted it onto a website without their consent for anyone to see on the internet, then yes obviously that would be exploiting them.

 

If my current boyfriend filmed us having sex for our own personal use that would be our decision, but if he then showed it to his friends or put it 'out there' then that would be exploiting me.

 

Same as if I was sunbathing topless on a nudist beach, that's not 'porn'. Someone then taking a picture and jacking off over it doesn't make it porn either.

 

What would happen if a kid walked past and saw your friends? The parents would probably have called the police. Indecent exposure in public is against the law over here.

 

People get up to all sorts of stuff and sometimes regret it later. Modern technology can be great but it also allows images and films to be circulated ad infinitum. I seriously can't see how this is a positive thing

 

I'm not really sure how you got off onto this tangent of illegal pictures and videos being propagated on the internet. I haven't seen anyone in this thread taking a position that unwilling participants' privacy and consent should be taken advantage of. Did I miss something?

 

We're talking about pornography between consenting parties with the knowledge that it is being distributed for money or otherwise, and its use. I think we can agree that anything besides this is immoral and illegal, including people who do not know they're being recorded (or do not consent to its distribution) and people who are too young to give that consent. That isn't being contended here. If you're talking about women who consent to the recording of sexual acts while being compensated for its distribution, who later regret it and do not like that they are on the internet in perpetuity, then that's a different discussion. Don't try to lump illegally recorded pornography into this to strengthen your position.

 

As far as pornography being exploitative to men, it's exploitative in a lot of the same ways that it's exploitative to women. Both men and women are objectified in pornography. They're two strangers who only serve one purpose: to have sex with each other--a vagina and a penis. Men are compensated very little for their work. The fact that your average person couldn't name more than five "adult" male actors just goes to show how much more they are objectified than women in porn. We just don't talk about it. Why?

 

If you want to discuss the topic of pornography in a sociological framework, men at large have been exploited just as much as women. From a young age, society enforces an ideal that we must adhere to (at least in some part) to be able to mate and pass on our genes. Pornography reinforces this ideal, not only for women (sluts), but also for men (studs). If you have a problem with this, your problem isn't with porn. It's with society (and very rightly so). Society influences the pornography we create and view. Changing, destroying, or outlawing the egg won't change the chicken. This is what a lot of people in this thread don't seem to understand.

[Vet]

It absolutley makes sense. Our society would not tolerate the degradement of a religious or ethinic culture even if it was under the pretext of being "fantasy" for just the thrill and fun of it to. Why do we allow the degradement of women under the pretext of "fantasy"? I infact think this a very fair question. If you can bring up other forms of fantasy, I.E. movies and video games, how is this situation also not comparable. Expand your mind. It's ironic that in this day and age where we are very sensitive to ethnic and culture groups that we still allow the debasement of the female gender under the guise of "it's just fantasy". But we would never as a culture allow the debasement of a certain group of people related to culture or ethinicity, that included men as well, and shrug our shoulds and say "it's just fantasy and good fun". People would be up in arms! It is a man's world and the men in it do not care enough about women in general, or their own wives, gfs or daughters by extension of being women, to offer respect to women.

 

I really hate to resort to these kinds of responses, but you are ignorant. You can't see the difference of the arguments you try to give, and this is why I'm not going to try to rationally argue with you.

[utterer of lies]

Yes, that is true and while I don't agree with that either, I don't want to see either gender treated thus, the plain truth is that 95% of the time it's women that are being humilated and exploited.

 

I like it how you cite your sources and only use scientifically sound statistics.

[Gamine]

While I will agree that porn is comparable to over eating, I do not see how no porn is the starvation to sex. If that is infact what you are saying. I suspect way more men in this world are addicted to porn. More then care to even admit to themselves. We live in a nation where over-eating happens but is looked down on. And where over-sexual stimulation is justified as okay. I wonder if people even know what normal sex is anymore or what a normal level of interest in sex is. I don't think are sexual drives are 100% about nature in this day and age. I think the over stimulation has made a false ideal about sexuality and how often we should be seeking out sexual imagery or situations.

 

My point is, that when in the midst of an addiction those in the addiction cannot see themselves clearly. Certainly we can look upon a 700 lb. person and know there's an addiction and perhaps emotional/psychological issues. We can look at the exterior and see.

 

A woman starving herself to death is a no brainer for everyone outside of the addiction. But not to her and those who share her POV... with a POV contoured by the addiction.

 

The same goes for sexual dysfunction and addictions. Looking out of the eyes through addiction, one sees nothing. Like the anorexic surrounded by anorexics. To those who don't have anorexia they are clearly acting out of deep issues and are skin and bones. Fellow anorexics, sharing this reality and addiction, all see the same thing. They all look good to one another.

 

Porn addiction and sexual dysfunction is precisely the same, with the exception that the examples I provided provide external, undeniable proofs... things that cannot be hidden from the objective world. 'Lifestyles', porn, sexual addictions all can. And, they are hidden. It is the person in front of the screen having sex with themselves and a 2d image and feeling satisfied. It is the person with sexual excess. If anyone indulging in imbalance were to have exterior affects... like eating or not eating... then their problems would be more visible and would invite more opportunity for objective reality to kick in.

 

Thus is the seductive nature of it. It can be hidden from society. They can be one thing on the outside and something else on the inside. They can have all the sexual flings they want as long as it involves themselves and a 2d image. They can go to orgies and swing from the chandeliers until the cows come home. But like the anorexics, they are with others who share their dysfunction and they all see it through the eyes of the dysfunction... look to each other and get a nod of approval.

 

But is there an objective reality? No, not really.

 

I am equalizing all addictions as being one in the same. With the same dynamics. The drug of choice just happens to be different among the examples.

[sxyNYCcpl]

Porn addiction and sexual dysfunction is precisely the same, with the exception that the examples I provided provide external, undeniable proofs... things that cannot be hidden from the objective world. 'Lifestyles', porn, sexual addictions all can.

 

<SNIP>

 

But is there an objective reality? No, not really.

 

Which is a very good point. The idea of porn addiction or sex addiction is so completely subjective, indeed the psychological community still does not recognize either of them as genuine pathologies, perhaps they never will. I am of the opinion the *most* (NOT all) cases of "porn addiction" and/or "sex addiction" are nothing of the sort, rather I believe it is usually two people who have different value systems wrt porn and/or sex dealing with the aftermath of those value systems clashing.

 

Take JS, and her almost(?) irrational hatred of porn and other sexual imagery. Now imagine she somehow ends up married to a man who watches porn once or twice a month. Upon her discovery of that, I would imagine the rather quickly we would see accusations of addiction where a casual observer would likely conclude none exists.

[Jersey Shortie]

Vet, your protests about how you "hate to do this" or how 'you don't want to offend" is lost whenever you follow it with a "but" and the carry on saying the exact things you start with false protests to the contrary.

 

 

I like it how you cite your sources and only use scientifically sound statistics.

 

I will keep my eyes open for when you become a text book case of scientific data and statsitics too my friend.

 

 

Gamine:

Porn addiction and sexual dysfunction is precisely the same, with the exception that the examples I provided provide external, undeniable proofs... things that cannot be hidden from the objective world. 'Lifestyles', porn, sexual addictions all can. And, they are hidden. It is the person in front of the screen having sex with themselves and a 2d image and feeling satisfied. It is the person with sexual excess. If anyone indulging in imbalance were to have exterior affects... like eating or not eating... then their problems would be more visible and would invite more opportunity for objective reality to kick in.

 

Thus is the seductive nature of it. It can be hidden from society. They can be one thing on the outside and something else on the inside. They can have all the sexual flings they want as long as it involves themselves and a 2d image. They can go to orgies and swing from the chandeliers until the cows come home. But like the anorexics, they are with others who share their dysfunction and they all see it through the eyes of the dysfunction... look to each other and get a nod of approval.

 

But is there an objective reality? No, not really.

 

I am equalizing all addictions as being one in the same. With the same dynamics. The drug of choice just happens to be different among the examples.

 

Gamine, I have made the same point myself on this subject.

 

 

Take JS, and her almost(?) irrational hatred of porn and other sexual imagery. Now imagine she somehow ends up married to a man who watches porn once or twice a month. Upon her discovery of that, I would imagine the rather quickly we would see accusations of addiction where a casual observer would likely conclude none exists.

 

Next time try asking me instead of making unfounded and remarkably wrong accusations to the contrary.

[Vet]

Vet, your protests about how you "hate to do this" or how 'you don't want to offend" is lost whenever you follow it with a "but" and the carry on saying the exact things you start with false protests to the contrary.

 

This is a result of your misunderstandings from what these "protests" really meant. The first, when I prefaced my response to you in saying that it wasn't my intent to offend you, I meant just that. My intent wasn't offense, it was to explain that I couldn't hold an conversation of intelligent merit with you on this topic. If you were offended by that, that's not in my control.

 

The second, I wasn't afraid of offending. I just hate to resort to ad hominem attacks, but unfortunately when one encounters people that can't argue logically (as in your comparison of pornography to racism and your other shrill rebuttals), the only thing one can do is reply illogically.

 

Hope that clears that up.

 

Next time try asking me instead of making unfounded and remarkably wrong accusations to the contrary.

 

From my following of this thread, people have asked many questions that have gone unanswered by you, so they can only do what any person would do and infer from the posts you've made. Don't cry because they've done just that.

[sxyNYCcpl]

Next time try asking me instead of making unfounded and remarkably wrong accusations to the contrary.

 

It is my experience that asking you questions more often than not results in the questions being wholly ignored. In fact, there are several outstanding questions from me to you in this very thread that you have not yet even acknowledged, much less answered.

[utterer of lies]

JS, I would like to ask you something. I would understand if you don't want to reply, but I'm curious...

 

Would you feel bad, would it feel degrading to you if your partner would use images of you for masturbation?

 

Would you feel bad, would it feel degrading to you if your partner would use images of you for masturbation while you are on another continent for business reasons?

 

Would you feel bad, would it feel degrading to you if some random guy would use images of you for masturbation?

[Loveisabattlefield]

What if I fantasize about a prior sexual experience with an ex-lover? Am I being untrue?

 

Tesla, I agree with you until you take it to this degree. I know that I would never fantasize about a prior sexual experience, especially if I am in bed with my husband. That would be an idicator of SERIOUS problems with the relationship. If you have fantasies about a prior REAL experience while you're in a supposively great relationship, you're lying to yourself and your partner. That is very different than porn...which is simply a tool. Fantasies involving real past relationships = dangerous waters.

[Jersey Shortie]

This is a result of your misunderstandings from what these "protests" really meant. The first, when I prefaced my response to you in saying that it wasn't my intent to offend you, I meant just that. My intent wasn't offense, it was to explain that I couldn't hold an conversation of intelligent merit with you on this topic. If you were offended by that, that's not in my control.

 

The second, I wasn't afraid of offending. I just hate to resort to ad hominem attacks, but unfortunately when one encounters people that can't argue logically (as in your comparison of pornography to racism and your other shrill rebuttals), the only thing one can do is reply illogically.

 

Hope that clears that up.

 

 

Well, it's unfortunete that you feel the things you have to say are not intelligent. While I disagree with many people here, I haven't run into too many complete idiots here. I stand by my comments in comparison to pornography and racism. We would never be able to treat a religious group or cultural one like we can treat women through porn. You could never call a jew a racist name, use them, degrade them in the guise of "fantasy" like you can with women. There is nothing illogical about it.

 

From my following of this thread, people have asked many questions that have gone unanswered by you, so they can only do what any person would do and infer from the posts you've made. Don't cry because they've done just that.

 

Nothing but boohonky. I have answered MANY questions. And have asked MANY that have gone unanswered by laregly, the male posters. I will answer all questions when the male poster here start answering all mine. Untill then, I see no reason to continue answering every questions while mine go unanswered. You can cry foul but you and Sxy are big offenders of avoiding many questions I ask of the male posters.

 

It is my experience that asking you questions more often than not results in the questions being wholly ignored. In fact, there are several outstanding questions from me to you in this very thread that you have not yet even acknowledged, much less answered.

 

See above. Sxy, you ignore and only acknowledge things on your own agenda. I see no reason to offer you answers when you do not offer answers in return based on the things I ask or comment on. When yuo start, I will freely answer anything you want. For awhile on these threads, I made it a point to answer all the questions I cold. When I saw many male posters decline to directly address my questions, yruoself included, I saw it fit to not be so free in answering in return. Save your sactimony

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JS, I would like to ask you something. I would understand if you don't want to reply, but I'm curious...

 

Would you feel bad, would it feel degrading to you if your partner would use images of you for masturbation?

 

Would you feel bad, would it feel degrading to you if your partner would use images of you for masturbation while you are on another continent for business reasons?

 

Suddenly you are all respectful commentary Utter of Lies now that you want me to answer your questions.

 

No, I would not feel degraded if my partner used me as masturbation matieral.

 

Would you feel bad, would it feel degrading to you if some random guy would use images of you for masturbation?

 

In a manner of speaking, I would be degraded if a random man sued me to masturbate. Because basically, he is just using me to get off. Nothing more.