Porn

[Jersey Shortie]

You know, there isn't one little bit of man-hating in this post. Not one woman here, for porn or against, said men were awful or deserved to be disrespected. The reason it bothers some women here so much is because they DO love men. Infact, the issue to me seems that alot of women who don't agree with porn infact think men don't respect women very much of fear that men hate them. I'd like you to in all seriously, point out one bit of "misogyny" anywhere in here. Pointing out an epic problem regarding porn, and being honest how sometimes men handle it in not so great ways is a far cry from hating men. I think any bit of critism is what causes these over the top statements of "misandry" . Not based on reality.

 

 

Where the argument starts to come off the rails is the concept that thinking about someone else while in bed with your partner is a result of porn and is somehow disrespectful to the other party.

 

I don't think anyone is saying that thinking of someone else is always the result of porn. However, lets be honest. Porn has become too much of a regular staple. I have said it a million times and people choose to ignore it. Women aren't looking for perfection. they are looking for possibly some more self control and not just turning to porn the second she isn't there to service him. And if you are in bed with your partner, adn they are thinking about someone else, well who really wants to be in that situation? Would you really go telling your partner that? No, and you wouldn't because it is disrespectful and hurtful on some level.

 

That's simply fantasy and isn't disrespectful in the least. It's as if it's disrespectful to, for instance, role-play or engage in other acts done of mutual consent.

 

Doing acts between two people is an entirely different thing then holding yourself seperate an thinking of other people.

 

It's also a simple fact that a lot of porn is actually created, produced and directed by women. Does that make those women misogynist? Even the Playboy empire was headed by a woman (Christie Hefner) for two decades, a tremendously strong and capable woman who refers to herself as both a feminist and activist.

 

Yes some porn is created and produced by women. And the reason the have said they produce it is to make porn that is not as predatory for women. If most men were viewing porn of normal looking women, in their age group, that treated women like part of the experience then just a tool there to service them; maybe I wouldn't feel that it was so awful. However, that's not the way it is for most men. men aren't intersted in seeing normal women enjoying themselves. they want to see 18 year olds having sex from behind. We both know the majority is geared to men, by men, for men. And the porn that is geared to men, by men for men can often be about making women 2nd, submissive, eager to please and set up plain unfair and unrealistic standards. Playboy isn't exactly about repersenting women in a healthy way either. Women don't want to have to get implants to be sexy, or be blond, or remain 22 forevre. Im sorry men find women so freaking awful they have to settle for women that do get older, have normal-god given breasts and aren't perfec photoshopped.

[GorillaTheater]

You know, there isn't one little bit of man-hating in this post.

 

men aren't intersted in seeing normal women enjoying themselves. they want to see 18 year olds having sex from behind.

 

Im sorry men find women so freaking awful they have to settle for women that do get older, have normal-god given breasts and aren't perfec photoshopped.

 

[Vet]

 

Sometimes the smilies say it all.

[Gamine]

Despite the shrill tone of some of the anti-porn crusaders here, the foundation of their argument is actually sound if you draw a straight line between misogyny and porn.

 

Personally, I don't think that's logically consistent but I can certainly understand why some might think that.

 

Where the argument starts to come off the rails is the concept that thinking about someone else while in bed with your partner is a result of porn and is somehow disrespectful to the other party.

 

That's simply fantasy and isn't disrespectful in the least. It's as if it's disrespectful to, for instance, role-play or engage in other acts done of mutual consent.

 

It's also a simple fact that a lot of porn is actually created, produced and directed by women. Does that make those women misogynist? Even the Playboy empire was headed by a woman (Christie Hefner) for two decades, a tremendously strong and capable woman who refers to herself as both a feminist and activist.

 

 

Try calling out another woman's name the next time you are in the sack with your partner and let's see how that flies.

[Thomas X Forever]

Tony, will you close this topic already? What the ****?

[Thaddeus]

Try calling out another woman's name the next time you are in the sack with your partner and let's see how that flies.

Oh, it's happened. And - I swear I'm not making this up - we laughed and laughed about it. Really. And it's happened to me when she was the one grunting out an exes name in the throes of it all.

 

And GAWD, it was funny! Didn't bother me in the least.

 

Sometimes people make a mistake like this out to be WAAAAYYY more serious than is warranted.

[Gamine]

sex is sex. masturbation, whether porn is used or not, is sex. porn is a movie.

 

gamine, in the situation of "varying libidos" or whatever, would you be ok with your SO masturbating without using porn? or only if he is thinking exclusively of you (i.e. lying)?

 

let's leave porn out of the equation for the moment, because blaming "porn" as an entity is like blaming the a-bomb itself instead of the people that dropped it. I think that porn's graphic nature and its relative absurdity in today's time adds some "shock value" that clouds what i believe is the real issue here.

 

let's say hypothetically, for whatever reason, my wife has not been interested in having sex for the last week - and as a result I wake up fairly aroused on a Sunday morning (which happens to men quite a bit). My wife and I go to the movies and we see a romantic comedy of some sort - during which there is a love scene in which the lead actress' breasts are exposed, and this heightens my arousal a bit. so after the movie I go shopping and i pick up some flowers and candles in hopes of seducing the wife. By the time I get home she's cleaning the house and just doesn't feel well and essentially rebuffs the advance. so later that evening I decide to "rub one out", and yes, the love scene and the actress' breasts do make it back into my head during this process.

 

Some questions:

 

Should I have simply waited until my wife was feeling up to having sex in order to have an orgasm (keep in mind that I probably have not gone a week without orgasming since I have been able to have one, whether single or in a relationship, and I'd be willing to bet that most men haven't either unless they were in a situation where it was not possible)?

 

Does this mean that I have "had sex" with this this actress in the same manner that I would have with my wife?

 

Did I cheat on my wife the instant that I was aroused by the love scene? Did the actress become a "surrogate sex partner" at that moment? and if so, should I have looked away from the screen so as not to "disrespect" my wife? or was my becoming aroused by it a sign of weakness and if I really love my wife I would have stifled it? and given that my wife is not built like the actress, does it imply that I truly desire a woman built like the actress?

 

As for the masturbation, was the masturbation permissable only if I would have thought exclusively of sex with my wife, and it became cheating when the scene popped into my head?

 

and finally, let's say that my wife did not reject the advance, and instead we started making out the whole ride home from the movie and had great sex...now given the fact that she had not been into it all week, but then she saw this movie and all of a sudden the tables turn - does that mean that she has used the male actor in the scene as a "surrogate sex partner" since she wasn't turned on until she saw the movie? does it mean that I, who also is not built anything close to a male lead, am not enough to turn her on and she secretly wants Brad Pitt and not me?

 

Here's a scenario for you to chew on. You come home and walk in on your wife masturbating and calling out another man's name... better yet, you are making love and she screams out another man's (maybe you even know this guy) name. Tell me. What are you feeling?

[Jersey Shortie]

 

Sometimes the smilies say it all.

 

Sometimes it's also meant to be condesending and flippant in the face of a real discussion.

 

 

 

Tony, will you close this topic already? What the ****?

 

If you don't like the topic, don't post here. THis thread is called porn, that's what people are discussing. It's all very carely contained. The point of a message board is to discuss.

[Thaddeus]

Simply put, if two people are secure in their relationship, one isn't neglecting the other because they'd rather cruise for titties or whatever online, or they're spending so much on it that it's causing the couple financial hardship, then it's not a problem.

 

Bottom line: What two people do behind closed doors is nobody else's business. That includes porn.

 

If you don't like porn, then don't buy or use it.

 

Live and let live.

[Vet]

Sometimes it's also meant to be condesending and flippant in the face of a real discussion.

 

It's impossible to have a real discussion with you on this topic.

[Jersey Shortie]

Those are some extremist comments to make Thaddeus. No one said people weren't allowed to do what they wanted to do. Alot of women still come here troubled by their partner's porn use. It's clearly not a completely netural issue. Not for you. Not for me. Not for one person that commented on this thread.

[Thaddeus]

Oh fercrissakes.

 

Now, apparently, because I believe in the liberty of a couple to do as they pleases, I'm an extremist.

 

Un-frickin-believable.

 

I can honestly say that now I've truly heard it all.

 

---------

 

Oh frig. Nevermind.

[GorillaTheater]

Sometimes it's also meant to be condesending and flippant in the face of a real discussion.

 

Or to demonstrate blatant dishonesty at worst and delightful irony at best.

[Jersey Shortie]

No Thaddeus. It's extremist to "it's not a problem" end of story. When clearly for alot of women it is a problem.

 

 

Or to demonstrate blatant dishonesty at worst and delightful irony at best.

 

What's so dishonest about what I said? Most porn is relfected on a certain age level and physical type of girl. 40 year old men aren't looking at 40 year old women. They are looking at 18 year old school girls. Women are worthless and even less worthless to men after a certain age. That's the over-whelming message. Oh but right, women are suppose to be confident even though their own husbands are looking at 18-25 year old girls getting bleeped.

[GorillaTheater]

What's so dishonest about what I said? Most porn is relfected on a certain age level and physical type of girl. 40 year old men aren't looking at 40 year old women. They are looking at 18 year old school girls. Women are worthless and even less worthless to men after a certain age. That's the over-whelming message. Oh but right, women are suppose to be confident even though their own husbands are looking at 18-25 year old girls getting bleeped.

 

Should I laugh or cry? You claim that your post contained no man-bashing, and within 3 minutes of your post I pointed out a couple of instances of blatant man-bashing. Rather than address that, you go off on your canned rant. Again.

 

You think of men as some cross between neanderthals and pond scum, but lack any ability whatsoever for introspection. Yes, you've told us a million times how badly we suck, but have you ever once looked inside yourself for any explanation as to what the hell your problem is? Given your inability to so much as accurately read a post pointing out an internal problem with one of your posts, I'm guessing not.

[You'reasian]

Should I laugh or cry? You claim that your post contained no man-bashing, and within 3 minutes of your post I pointed out a couple of instances of blatant man-bashing. Rather than address that, you go off on your canned rant. Again.

 

You think of men as some cross between neanderthals and pond scum, but lack any ability whatsoever for introspection. Yes, you've told us a million times how badly we suck, but have you ever once looked inside yourself for any explanation as to what the hell your problem is? Given your inability to so much as accurately read a post pointing out an internal problem with one of your posts, I'm guessing not.

 

Gorilla Theater, I enjoy reading your posts and am glad you are on this site.

 

I feel bad for JS. My impression is that she's been wronged by some guys, has internalized it for some time and at this point - she's not turning back.

[missdependant]

Oh, really now. It seems you are now representing the deep down truths and motivations of every single solitary MAN and woman. You are a woman. You have absolutely no capacity to speak for a man, let me tell you... you do not have a clue. Guys DO PUT THEMSELVES INTO THE SCENE... maybe not ALL GUYS... BUT THEY MOST DEFINITELY DO.... I'VE ASKED. THEY ANSWERED. THAT IS THE THRILL. Some may just use porn to start thinking about sex... but for heaven's sake. Given the posts I have read it doesn't seem that dudes require ANY HELP in that arena.

 

You are projecting your situation. At least JS and others posting here... including myself... have not only projected but have also educated ourselves.

 

 

So basically, you're telling me that, because I'm a woman (who happens to watch porn!) I have no clue why people watch porn?

 

Talk about sexist.

[Gemini09]

If I watch porn, I do it because I'm ALREADY thinking about sex. I don't do it to start the process. If you do that, you probably are just bored.

[BUENG1]

If I watch porn, I do it because I'm ALREADY thinking about sex. I don't do it to start the process. If you do that, you probably are just bored.

 

So let me get this straight. After you've railed against porn, comparing it to Nazism, raping babies, underage prostitution, saying how awful the industry is and how awful men are for watching porn and... you watch it as well

[Vet]

So let me get this straight. After you've railed against porn, comparing it to Nazism, raping babies, underage prostitution, saying how awful the industry is and how awful men are for watching porn and... you watch it as well

 

Yeah, I don't think you have it straight; everything I've seen Gemini09 post in this thread has been defending it.

[Gemini09]

Yeah, I don't think you have it straight; everything I've seen Gemini09 post in this thread has been defending it.

 

 

Yeah, what the ? They clearly have me mixed up with someone else.

[AAlike]

Would it matter to me that my husband saw another woman at the store, got turned on and came home to have sex with me? Of course it would. I'd be grossed out and pissed off by it. Why would I want to make love to a man who wasn't really there for me? Relationships have their bonuses but sexual surrogacy shouldn't be one of them we ask of our partner.

 

but why does the fact that your husband got turned on sporadically imply that he is "not really there for you"?? just because guys have a hair trigger about what starts them thinking about sex does not mean that they are going to continue to think about that woman's image when they are having sex with you!

 

Sex can exist as a bodily function. Or, sex may have nothing to do with a bodily function. It may be the totality of what the man and woman give to one another.

 

A shallow gain is winning the lottery. Fun, yes.

 

A gain of depth is developing a new invention that makes you millions.

 

Thrill seeking versus true depth and gratification.

 

Does this make any sense to you?

 

although generally I disagree with the black and white, "fun sex means you can't have deep sex" view of sex that you are conveying here - I will use it for argument's sake.

 

If you truly believe that "bodily function" sex exists in an entirely different realm than "true depth and gratification" sex, then shouldn't this be more reason that what your guy does for masturbatory and/or "bodily function" purposes should be completely non-threatening?

[missdependant]

Yeah, what the ? They clearly have me mixed up with someone else.

 

He probably confused Gemini with Gamine lol..

[Gamine]

but why does the fact that your husband got turned on sporadically imply that he is "not really there for you"?? just because guys have a hair trigger about what starts them thinking about sex does not mean that they are going to continue to think about that woman's image when they are having sex with you!

 

 

 

although generally I disagree with the black and white, "fun sex means you can't have deep sex" view of sex that you are conveying here - I will use it for argument's sake.

 

If you truly believe that "bodily function" sex exists in an entirely different realm than "true depth and gratification" sex, then shouldn't this be more reason that what your guy does for masturbatory and/or "bodily function" purposes should be completely non-threatening?

 

I don't see a person 'getting off' as threatening to me.

 

I do see it as a barrier between he and I for sexual intimacy. It can be a wonderful experience to be with someone with whom you are totally free and the freedom comes from a genuine belonging and connection. Our intimacy together was amazing when we first got together. There weren't any barriers. I felt so important to him and necessary. His focus on me in this way opened me up to him like a lion.

 

Then porn stepped in and it became his lover. I don't know if it was out of shame or a natural evolving of disassociation through porn, however the magnitude of what happened between us changed. It became stressful and uneasy. I resented him.

 

As a woman I'd have to say I fall into the passionate rather than simply sexual category. I like the intensity. I like being his focus. That brings my passionate nature out. Knowing that he was turned on by a body part of a woman at the store and coming home to jump my bones would be a total turn off. Because frankly, it has nothing in the world to really do with me. It becomes not our sexuality... but his own private sexuality that he lives and experiences THROUGH me. Totally different things.

[Jersey Shortie]

Should I laugh or cry? You claim that your post contained no man-bashing, and within 3 minutes of your post I pointed out a couple of instances of blatant man-bashing. Rather than address that, you go off on your canned rant. Again.

 

I did address it and ASKED why it is man-bashing. You still can't tell me what about my post is man-bashing. Just saying it's man-bashing with no other follow-up but to put me down and actually saying "why", are two different things.

 

You think of men as some cross between neanderthals and pond scum, but lack any ability whatsoever for introspection. Yes, you've told us a million times how badly we suck, but have you ever once looked inside yourself for any explanation as to what the hell your problem is? Given your inability to so much as accurately read a post pointing out an internal problem with one of your posts, I'm guessing not.

 

There you go again, you whine at about not addressing things but here you are doing just that. Attaking me instead of talking about the issue. WHich is your usual behavior anyway. No offense but when men around here say "i'm a guy, of course I like boobs, sex, porn, young women!" The other men all agree and chuckle in some boy-club mentality. I say it and and I have no ability for introspection? You men can't have it both ways. You can't sit there and make it a point to remind women how much you like sex and are going to yes, look at and think about other women with regularity, then get pissed when women think that's exactly what you are doing most of the time.