Porn

[You'reasian]

I never said I went out with jerks. That's what *you* keep saying because you rather think that then admit otherwise. I date normal everyday guys. I don't date jerks. Either address what I do say, but stop assuming you know things that you don't.

 

You date normal every day guys who love Playboy, Penthouse, X-rated movies and such. And there's nothing wrong with guys who like to look at those things. Like you suggest, they are normal every day guys whom earn little per year or are multimillionaires.

[Jersey Shortie]

That's because women are worthless and interchangable and sometimes men need to "dissociate" to get away from us. While men are great and perfect and virile and anything they want should be true.

 

 

End message: men are great. Women are worthless. That's how men want it and I don't see it changing. Espeically because guys don't even want to listen. They want their porn more then they want to care about real women.

[You'reasian]

That's because women are worthless and interchangable and sometimes men need to "dissociate" to get away from us. While men are great and perfect and virile and anything they want should be true.

 

Flattery gets you everywhere

 

How would you handle a man who told you he didn't need porn because you satisfy him rather well AND he cares alot about you?

 

Looking forward to your response.

[Jersey Shortie]

Flattery gets you everywhere

 

Thanks for re-enforcing my suspicousions on how men view women. Now ask me again why I have given up.

[Vet]

Actually. That is not the crux of the problem. I didn't see one woman here say a man's libido should deflate to fit hers. I think what is being said that a little self-control and focus on the man's part would be met with more warm arms. Who are you to say that masturbating and desiring other people isn't on some level being unfaithful? And part of the issue IS insecurity. It is MALE and female insecurity. You aren't sitting here defending porn because you are 100% secure with yourself as a man. Millions of men all over aren't relaying on porn to some degree because they are secure with themselves. All one has to do is look at porn and see that it is ALL about male insecurity. Creating a fantasy world where all the men perform, pleaes, are huge, and get only the best looking women. Sorry but that is male insecurity. So if you want to talk about insecurity, please talk about insecurity. But do not be bain enough to only talk about female insecurity. Men are JUST as insecure. And all a woman has to do is look at porn movie to see what a man is insecure about. All this arguing about porn, and fighting over it isn't because men are secure with themslves. Now I admit I can be insecure. But you men put us norma regular women up against a world where all the girls never age, have big fake boobs, perfect bodies and do anything a man wants. So don't sit there and condemn women for questioning how they fit into that or how they fit into their man's desires when his actiosn are telling her that she isn't good enough alone. You can put any fancy words you want on it but the truth is that real women aren't good enough for men to be happy with alone. You guys want to lamenate about how you need variety and this or that and biology. And it is all at the COST of a woman. We are suppose to feel secure in an environement that is all about replacing us? Even if itos for a few moments in time a couple times a week? Or however much you look at porn? Yeah that's right ladies, please feel like your man loves you ..but don't feel threatened when he needs to view SLutty Cheearleaders 14 because he needs to escape you for a few moments. What a joke.

 

This is about insecurity on some level. But lets not pretend that male insecurity doesn't play a big part here.

 

Man, if I was stuck in a relationship with you, I'd be looking at porn all the time too. Can't have sex on any terms other than your own, any sex other than your preconceived ideas of it are degrading, and masturbation is being unfaithful. Also, if I have random thoughts of any woman other than you (whether I'll ever meet her or not) I'm also being unfaithful. If I was already "cheating" on you in your mind, I'd have absolutely no problem actually doing it.

 

It's no wonder these are all the men you've ever met. Ever heard of a self-fulfilling prophecy?

[You'reasian]

Thanks for re-enforcing my suspicousions on how men view women. Now ask me again why I have given up.

 

Its sarcasm.

 

Again, how would you handle a man who told you that you satisfy him really well, doesn't need porn because of you AND that he cares alot about you?

[Gamine]

The witch doctors in Africa have counseled the men infected with AIDS to have intercourse with infants/newborns and toddlers as a means to 'cleanse' themselves of the infection. This is justified to them. This is endorsed by other men. This is the thing the mothers and little girls being used should just simply understand... that it is 'necessary'.

 

Now, there are tiny little girls being killed when a grown man violates her in his effort to 'clean himself' inside of her. Now there are many, many little girls who are condemned to live (for whatever length of time) with AIDS.

 

It seems wrong minded men are willing to justify nearly anything if it serves their purposes.

 

An extreme example of a prevailing discourse.

[missdependant]

THAT is being logical. I realize I am insecure.

 

Then you're responding with emotion. Not logic.

[missdependant]

You're saying that like most guys don't have a compulsive problem with it. I beg to differ. Most guys wouldn't be able to completely go without it for even two weeks. But right, men don't have a problem with porn, it's us women who do.

 

Yep. Because I love porn and watch it at least a few times within a two week period, I don't even want to TRY and go two weeks without it. I must have a serious addiction and some horrible mental issues, and I MUST be thinking degrading thoughts about other women when I watch it.

[Jersey Shortie]

Man, if I was stuck in a relationship with you, I'd be looking at porn all the time too. Can't have sex on any terms other than your own, any sex other than your preconceived ideas of it are degrading, and masturbation is being unfaithful. Also, if I have random thoughts of any woman other than you (whether I'll ever meet her or not) I'm also being unfaithful. If I was already "cheating" on you in your mind, I'd have absolutely no problem actually doing it.

 

It's no wonder these are all the men you've ever met. Ever heard of a self-fulfilling prophecy?

 

Hunny, if I was stuck in a relationship with you, I rather look at porn then be intimate with you myself. THAT is saying alot. Never said it was about having sex on my terms. How does, using a little more self-control and focus, thinking porn IS degrading (which alot of men admit to themselves), equal to wanting sex on my terms? That makes no sense.

 

Again, how would you handle a man who told you that you satisfy him really well, doesn't need porn because of you AND that he cares alot about you?

 

Do you even need to ask this???? I don't even get why you need to ask the answer to this.

 

The witch doctors in Africa have counseled the men infected with AIDS to have intercourse with infants/newborns and toddlers as a means to 'cleanse' themselves of the infection. This is justified to them. This is endorsed by other men. This is the thing the mothers and little girls being used should just simply understand... that it is 'necessary'.

 

Now, there are tiny little girls being killed when a grown man violates her in his effort to 'clean himself' inside of her. Now there are many, many little girls who are condemned to live (for whatever length of time) with AIDS.

 

It seems wrong minded men are willing to justify nearly anything if it serves their purposes.

 

An extreme example of a prevailing discourse.

 

Are you serious? Does that really happen???? Holy crap that is vile to say the least.

 

Then you're responding with emotion. Not logic.

 

Wrong. I am being honest enough AND logical enough to understand that I have insecurities. And that I won't deny them just to prove my point about porn. THAT is logical. Most of the people here do have insecurities. MEN have insecurities. Porn DOES infact play on the exact things women question about themselves. And it also plays on the exact things men do but in a more positive way made to make men seem more capable. Because most porn out there is geared to male fantasy. I am responding with emotion. Darn straight I am. That doesn't make me illogical. That makes me human. Just as YOU Miss Independent have displayed much emotion in your posts and were still able to respond logically, even if you were incorrect. Please go on to remind us again how you don't waste your time reading these posts. Next time you respond in anger to something I've said should I tell you that since you are responding in emotion that you are automatically illogical?

 

Yeah you think about that. Because if you are calling me illogical for being honest and smart enough to be honest, even while I am YES emotional, then you are might as well call yourself illogical, and all the people here that have responded as well. Because all these posts are filled with emotion.

[Gamine]

In reading over the countless posts there are a few incongruent statements that stand out to me.

 

On one hand, there is the argument that porn is not sex.

 

On the other hand, it is argued that with differing libidos porn is a handy way of taking care of the 'spill over' for sex that isn't 'taken care of' by the SO.

 

Which is it? Either porn is sex or porn isn't sex.

 

If porn is used as a 'spill over' to take care of sex that the SO isn't doing a hefty job of taking care of, then it is most definitely sex and it is nothing less than using other 2d women as surrogate sex partners.

 

Hence, the objection.

[Gamine]

Hunny, if I was stuck in a relationship with you, I rather look at porn then be intimate with you myself. THAT is saying alot. Never said it was about having sex on my terms. How does, using a little more self-control and focus, thinking porn IS degrading (which alot of men admit to themselves), equal to wanting sex on my terms? That makes no sense.

 

 

 

Do you even need to ask this???? I don't even get why you need to ask the answer to this.

 

 

 

Are you serious? Does that really happen???? Holy crap that is vile to say the least.

 

 

 

Wrong. I am being honest enough AND logical enough to understand that I have insecurities. And that I won't deny them just to prove my point about porn. THAT is logical. Most of the people here do have insecurities. MEN have insecurities. Porn DOES infact play on the exact things women question about themselves. And it also plays on the exact things men do but in a more positive way made to make men seem more capable. Because most porn out there is geared to male fantasy. I am responding with emotion. Darn straight I am. That doesn't make me illogical. That makes me human. Just as YOU Miss Independent have displayed much emotion in your posts and were still able to respond logically, even if you were incorrect. Please go on to remind us again how you don't waste your time reading these posts. Next time you respond in anger to something I've said should I tell you that since you are responding in emotion that you are automatically illogical?

 

Yeah you think about that. Because if you are calling me illogical for being honest and smart enough to be honest, even while I am YES emotional, then you are might as well call yourself illogical, and all the people here that have responded as well. Because all these posts are filled with emotion.

 

 

Yes, this vile and disgusting cleansing of their 'penis' is in fact taking place in Africa. First, the males marry virgins. Then they use prostitutes and contract AIDS. Then they bring it home, have sex with their wives and give it to them. They have children and their children have AIDS.

 

Now, the very same dudes who have infected the women and children of their own families are now counseled that the way to 'clean' themselves is by having sex with babies. The witch doctors advise them that to purify themselves of this disease they should have sex with infants and toddlers. The infant girls are stolen and they are sold by men for the infected men to use like handi wipes. The tiny babies die when their insides are torn apart. The toddlers who live now have AIDS.

 

Wrong minded men feeding wrong minded men to use female bodies in whatever way it serves them. It is making the lives of women less than that of a rag. Disposable for the sake of the penis.

 

Now, when seeing the justifications for men using women and women using men sexually in our culture we can see that these phenomena share one primary thing in common. The idea that bodies exist for the purposes so defined by any one individual. Yes, this happens to be an outrageous example, however its origins in the hearts and minds of those engaging in it is the same. Using. Plain and simple.

[Vet]

In reading over the countless posts there are a few incongruent statements that stand out to me.

 

On one hand, there is the argument that porn is not sex.

 

On the other hand, it is argued that with differing libidos porn is a handy way of taking care of the 'spill over' for sex that isn't 'taken care of' by the SO.

 

Which is it? Either porn is sex or porn isn't sex.

 

If porn is used as a 'spill over' to take care of sex that the SO isn't doing a hefty job of taking care of, then it is most definitely sex and it is nothing less than using other 2d women as surrogate sex partners.

 

Hence, the objection.

 

Um, there's countless people saying different things. There isn't one cohesive ideology that one side is espousing to contradict the binary opposite side.

[Els]

Yep. Because I love porn and watch it at least a few times within a two week period, I don't even want to TRY and go two weeks without it. I must have a serious addiction and some horrible mental issues, and I MUST be thinking degrading thoughts about other women when I watch it.

 

Yeah, so must I. I wonder, if men who watch porn are contributing to the degradation of women, then are women who watch porn contributing to the degradation of men? Maybe us women should just watch more porn then to balance it out eh?

 

And girls, seriously. While I'm all out for TRUE women's rights (the rights to make decisions for ourselves, etc), I really think you're pushing them backwards by going to this extent. You really care about those African girls, do something about them rather than using them as an example for why porn is bad, perhaps!? Because honestly I can't see the correlation. In fact, what you're serving to do is ridicule their cause by bringing it into arguments like these where it serves no purpose. Just like saying 'Television is bad and causes amorality, look at the mass murder in (insert news title) for example!'

[Gamine]

Yeah, so must I. I wonder, if men who watch porn are contributing to the degradation of women, then are women who watch porn contributing to the degradation of men? Maybe us women should just watch more porn then to balance it out eh?

 

And girls, seriously. While I'm all out for TRUE women's rights (the rights to make decisions for ourselves, etc), I really think you're pushing them backwards by going to this extent. You really care about those African girls, do something about them rather than using them as an example for why porn is bad, perhaps!? Because honestly I can't see the correlation. In fact, what you're serving to do is ridicule their cause by bringing it into arguments like these where it serves no purpose. Just like saying 'Television is bad and causes amorality, look at the mass murder in (insert news title) for example!'

 

 

You can honestly say that you don't understand the correlation? It was clearly stated. Any wrong minded man can justify anything (wrong minded women as well) if the societal and/or cultural mores support it. Being lost inside of the approval of an act can appear as if it is justified or benign. Just as using little girls to cleanse AIDS is. It is just degrees of the same mind *uck. To those not engaged in the mind *uck it is clear. To those engaged in it ... well it is not clear. It is perspective. It is societal agreement. It is delusional.

 

We can clearly look upon the situation with these men in Africa and KNOW it is wrong. It is clear cut to us because we are not in the midst of it. It is not clear cut to them. They are doing it.

 

The same goes for the mind *uck with porn. It is no different. This societal more would be see perhaps with equal shock and horror by those inhabiting a village in the rain forest. They would think we were positively mad. They would be equally as baffled and perhaps sickened by the thought of it. Their culture wouldn't permit it.

 

It is precisely the same in the crux of it.

 

And to answer your question as to why I personally don't do anything about African men having sex with babies... Huh. I will give considerable thought to how I the individual can change that. There are world organizations currently tackling this. Perhaps I will get involved. As I am getting involved with the same cultural absurdities here in our neck of the woods.

[Gamine]

Um, there's countless people saying different things. There isn't one cohesive ideology that one side is espousing to contradict the binary opposite side.

 

In reviewing all of the posts it seems that some men use porn as a stimulation, others for sexual surrogacy, others for pure entertainment value. However, some men contradict themselves stating that on one hand it is for stimulation and then that it becomes a way of handling the sexual spill over for drives not met in frequency by their SO. This seems to suggest that porn, for some, is sex. That if a 2d image can assist a man in satisfying sexual variety (dissociation from wife/gf) through his virtual sex with an image, then how can the very same man suggest that his use of porn is not sex? Some of these contradictions are occurring within the posts from the very same person.

 

There is a difference between looking at pictures of naked women between the observer and the observed... and utilizing the naked pictures to satisfy a part of one's sexuality when their committed partner is not available. The trade off for one to the other seems to be the snag in it for me. It seems to be viewed as a harmless and seamless transition from one woman to the next. And yet, it is still harmless? Are we really talking about a mind virus here?

[northstar1]

The witch doctors in Africa have counseled the men infected with AIDS to have intercourse with infants/newborns and toddlers as a means to 'cleanse' themselves of the infection. This is justified to them. This is endorsed by other men. This is the thing the mothers and little girls being used should just simply understand... that it is 'necessary'.

 

Now, there are tiny little girls being killed when a grown man violates her in his effort to 'clean himself' inside of her. Now there are many, many little girls who are condemned to live (for whatever length of time) with AIDS.

 

It seems wrong minded men are willing to justify nearly anything if it serves their purposes.

 

An extreme example of a prevailing discourse.

 

Terrible.

 

Where does the blame lie for these attrocities? With the fact that in many countries women are seen as subhuman and treated as such, or also on the ancient rituals that these shamen/witch doctors carry out in the name of their religion/tribal beliefs?

[Gamine]

Terrible.

 

Where does the blame lie for these attrocities? With the fact that in many countries women are seen as subhuman and treated as such, or also on the ancient rituals that these shamen/witch doctors carry out in the name of their religion/tribal beliefs?

 

Their tribal beliefs have a foundation in the male agreement that women are created for seemingly any use, whatsoever, as the male so devises. Take this concept that has infected the minds of many men across the globe... combine it with a dash of their culture... throw in their tribal/religious beliefs... and there you have whatever version that group of males will create. I suppose the answer is that males in these situations aren't even seeing women as subhuman. They aren't even valued as a life. In this dynamic in Africa, they are used almost as a human sacrifice. That it comes willingly and justified to continue with their version of male sexuality is sickening. Yet justifications of any kind whereby one is the outlet for another is equally as sickening.

[Els]

You can honestly say that you don't understand the correlation? It was clearly stated. Any wrong minded man can justify anything (wrong minded women as well) if the societal and/or cultural mores support it. Being lost inside of the approval of an act can appear as if it is justified or benign. Just as using little girls to cleanse AIDS is. It is just degrees of the same mind *uck. To those not engaged in the mind *uck it is clear. To those engaged in it ... well it is not clear. It is perspective. It is societal agreement. It is delusional.

 

No, to be honest, I still don't see the link. Using little girls to cleanse AIDS is unconsensual, first of all, and involves minors in sexual acts. In pornography the women SHOULD be there of their own free will, and of age to give consent legally. If they aren't, I'm sure all of us would support the harshest of judgements against the producers.

 

Why is it that we need to 'justify' porn? Why are you so sure that those who support porn are 'delusional' and those who don't are 'right'? What about other previously-unacceptable things that have only become acceptable recently? I suppose those who support homosexuality are delusional as well? And those who support sex before marriage? And those who support dominatrixes and kinky sex?

 

And to answer your question as to why I personally don't do anything about African men having sex with babies... Huh. I will give considerable thought to how I the individual can change that. There are world organizations currently tackling this. Perhaps I will get involved. As I am getting involved with the same cultural absurdities here in our neck of the woods.

 

You should. It's far more beneficial than posting here about porn, I can assure you.

[parrotlover]

I watch porn.

 

My husband does not.

 

He does not consider me viewing porn as cheating on him.

 

I would not care if he viewed porn.

[Gamine]

No, to be honest, I still don't see the link. Using little girls to cleanse AIDS is unconsensual, first of all, and involves minors in sexual acts. In pornography the women SHOULD be there of their own free will, and of age to give consent legally. If they aren't, I'm sure all of us would support the harshest of judgements against the producers.

 

Why is it that we need to 'justify' porn? Why are you so sure that those who support porn are 'delusional' and those who don't are 'right'? What about other previously-unacceptable things that have only become acceptable recently? I suppose those who support homosexuality are delusional as well? And those who support sex before marriage? And those who support dominatrixes and kinky sex?

 

 

 

You should. It's far more beneficial than posting here about porn, I can assure you.

 

 

The analogy was meant to stir a deeper analysis into how we, as societies, each derive what is acceptable. And that rather than living in acceptance by what others deem acceptable, we might hold ourselves to a true heartfelt understanding of what is really backing our ideas and/or belief systems. Perhaps it is the ideologies behind others serving purposes that is the breeding ground for all of the aforementioned. While I appreciate your directing my focus to take action... I am. For those who care to understand the deeper (far deeper) message they will. For those who wish to read the superficial meanings they will not understand.

 

However, it is there for those who choose to challenge the way they see things.

[Thaddeus]

However, it is there for those who choose to challenge the way they see things.

That includes you too, right?

[missdependant]

 

Why is it that we need to 'justify' porn? Why are you so sure that those who support porn are 'delusional' and those who don't are 'right'? What about other previously-unacceptable things that have only become acceptable recently? I suppose those who support homosexuality are delusional as well? And those who support sex before marriage? And those who support dominatrixes and kinky sex?

 

 

Man, we really are disgusting.

 

Seriously though.. I am happy to live in a country where we are given so many choices. We can get naked on camera without being slaughtered. AND get paid for it. Or we can NOT get nude on camera. We can watch others get naked and have wild crazy monkey sex, or we can choose NOT to. The US is awesome. The censorship is at a reasonable level already. Get over it.

 

And I'm sorry, but porn is absolutely NO comparison to the atrocities in 3rd world countries. I can say this from experience after a trip to Sri Lanka:

 

NO COMPARISON.

 

On a side note, I'd much rather look at porn than see the devastation of places like Africa and Sri Lanka ANY DAY. These are two complete different issues we're talking about.

[Els]

Gamine, please answer my question. Those who support porn are delusional and wrong-minded, right? How about those who support other more controversial issues such as homosexuality, premarital sex, abortion, euthanasia? Didn't you say you were in an open relationship? Can't wait til some religious guy comes along and tells you you're delusional and wrong-minded for thinking that such things are acceptable when the good Lord made us for heterosexual monogamous relationships.

 

Oh wait, or is he the delusional one? Since anyone who disagrees with YOUR views is delusional?

 

If you can't see the very fundamental difference, the DEEPEST difference between child sexual abuse and legit pornography where the women are paid and willing, I'm afraid I truly can't help you.

 

And.. most of us aren't trying to tell you to accept porn if you don't want to. Go ahead and insist that any man you're with should not watch porn. THAT'S FINE. What's NOT fine is you judging those of us who do and generalizing us under random umbrellas of your liking.

[Gamine]

Gamine, please answer my question. Those who support porn are delusional and wrong-minded, right? How about those who support other more controversial issues such as homosexuality, premarital sex, abortion, euthanasia? Didn't you say you were in an open relationship? Can't wait til some religious guy comes along and tells you you're delusional and wrong-minded for thinking that such things are acceptable when the good Lord made us for heterosexual monogamous relationships.

 

Oh wait, or is he the delusional one? Since anyone who disagrees with YOUR views is delusional?

 

If you can't see the very fundamental difference, the DEEPEST difference between child sexual abuse and legit pornography where the women are paid and willing, I'm afraid I truly can't help you.

 

And.. most of us aren't trying to tell you to accept porn if you don't want to. Go ahead and insist that any man you're with should not watch porn. THAT'S FINE. What's NOT fine is you judging those of us who do and generalizing us under random umbrellas of your liking.

 

 

I think you have me confused with another poster. I have been married and have been monogamous & faithful for 14 years.

 

This is basically (as I understood it anyway) a forum to express views on particular subjects. This is mine. That is yours.

 

Thanks for your permission....