Trialbyfire Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 Many players lie and manipulate without even knowing they are doing it. Sociopaths know they are doing it and still do it. Read my post, it's quite clear about how most players don't realize they are.Everyone knows they lie and manipulate. I have to throw down the b/s flag. Whether all players are willing to admit who and what they are, is another story, which is tied into delusional behaviour.
Trialbyfire Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 Right, but for a socipath it is so much more. It is about continueing the victory, even after it has been won. It is about manipulation to the point where the women is no longer the same person, to her friends or families that she was, as before she met the sociopath.There are differing levels of sociopathic behaviours. I know two people, one is a player. Very laid back fellow, women love his "depth" and good looks. He does no harm by just having sex with women because in the end the women will move on to finding a decent guy.Not all men/women who sleep with multiple people, are players. There are plenty of people who aren't monogamous but are upfront about it. I don't see anything wrong with someone who's open about it. This other "man" and I use that term loosely. Is a sociopath. Why? He slept with women in the beginning to just impregnate them and spread his seed. Once time this girl he impregnated came back to tell him the news. He beat the **** out of her and she left to have the child without ever telling him about the birth of his son. He has been in a relationship with my friend's sister for the past three years. And you can tell how she changes persona when he is around. Everyone does, nobody likes him, but she is still dating him because he is holding her on a tight leash. He tells her to cook, she does it. He tells her to drive to his place so that they can spend the weekend together, she does it. And if she doesn't, he will beat her. I had to stop him from beating her in front of her youger siblings. But he did punch her in the head that you could see the jaw move. And she went smack into the ground. Do you see the differences?Look into abusive/codependent relationships. I agree that this man is a sociopath but he's also more than that. I'm not saying all sociopaths are players. I'm saying that all players have an element of being sociopathic.
Hkizzle Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 Everyone knows they lie and manipulate. I have to throw down the b/s flag. Whether all players are willing to admit who and what they are, is another story, which is tied into delusional behaviour. The point is you are making up your own definitions based on your own biases, that are different from established research and what psychologists know to be true. Not everyone lie and know they are lying. Many people lie without realizing they are doing it. Children do it from an early age with no one teaching them how to lie. I can tell from your posts that you want to push all the blame and responsibility on the cheaters and players. Yes, I agree with you that cheating and playing around is wrong. But that doesn't mean player = sociopath. There's a big difference, you have to be totally clear about what you are doing and still doing it. Most players are in denial they are players and actually don't think they are players. You say that means delusional, ok fine, but then it means they are not clear and thus not a sociopath by definition.
Trialbyfire Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 Not everyone lie and know they are lying. Many people lie without realizing they are doing it. Children do it from an early age with no one teaching them how to lie.Eh? Everyone knows they're not telling the truth, when they do it. Children lie but they know that they're lying. If you don't know you're lying, there's some serious screws loose.
Hkizzle Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 Eh? Everyone knows they're not telling the truth, when they do it. Children lie but they know that they're lying. If you don't know you're lying, there's some serious screws loose. Wrong. Many people don't know they are lying when they are lying. Especially when dealing with guilt, denial or possible serious harm. It's a well documented psychological phenomenon.
Trialbyfire Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 Wrong. Many people don't know they are lying when they are lying. Especially when dealing with guilt, denial or possible serious harm. It's a well documented psychological phenomenon.Link this study reflecting sane people doing this.
Hkizzle Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 You got to be kidding right? You know and don't really need people to point out to you that many people lie so much they are not aware they are doing it? Sociopaths however are conscious they are doing something and still do it. There's a big difference. Thing is you like making your own definitions based on your own opinions. Definitions and opinions are different thing.
Trialbyfire Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 You got to be kidding right? You know and don't really need people to point out to you that many people lie so much they are not aware they are doing it? Sociopaths however are conscious they are doing something and still do it. There's a big difference. Thing is you like making your own definitions based on your own opinions. Definitions and opinions are different thing.Back it up with these "studies" you keep claiming. If it's solely your opinion, no need to back it up.
Author loveslife Posted August 2, 2009 Author Posted August 2, 2009 Wrong. Many people don't know they are lying when they are lying. Especially when dealing with guilt, denial or possible serious harm. It's a well documented psychological phenomenon. I agree that people use lies to shut out things like guilt and denial or possible harm and don't think of it persay as lying. Maybe it's not so much that they know they're lying. Maybe it's that they don't acknowledge it. They believe they have to say or do what they need to do.
Trialbyfire Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 I agree that people use lies to shut out things like guilt and denial or possible harm and don't think of it persay as lying. Maybe it's not so much that they know they're lying. Maybe it's that they don't acknowledge it. They believe they have to say or do what they need to do.Do people do this in extreme situations when they're technically insane or do they do this everyday, while juggling and lying to multiple people?
Hkizzle Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 Back it up with these "studies" you keep claiming. If it's solely your opinion, no need to back it up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudologia_fantastica I know quoting wiki is lazy, but it links other studies. There's a host of other phenonmenon on lying. In fact look at lying and there's a dozen different types of lies. Lying is so common that people often don't realize they are doing it. Problem is you still got your definition of sociopath wrong. Only some players are sociopaths, most are not.
Author loveslife Posted August 2, 2009 Author Posted August 2, 2009 Here's an interesting bit on lying. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4072816/
Hkizzle Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 Do people do this in extreme situations when they're technically insane or do they do this everyday, while juggling and lying to multiple people? Again your assessment of people is only black or white. You have no grey areas, I guess unless someone is insane? Why are you so judgemental? I know people that cheat or are players are wrong. But you seem to think these people only do what they do out of some sick twisted deliberate attempt to cause harm.
Author loveslife Posted August 2, 2009 Author Posted August 2, 2009 I think it's safe to assume that if someone can lie to you they can lie to themself as well. Maybe that's the crux of it.
Hkizzle Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 I think it's safe to assume that if someone can lie to you they can lie to themself as well. Maybe that's the crux of it. Exactly. Most people that do wrong thing don't even realize they are doing it. That's the difference between them and sociopaths that are well aware.
Trialbyfire Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 Again your assessment of people is only black or white. You have no grey areas, I guess unless someone is insane? Why are you so judgemental? I know people that cheat or are players are wrong. But you seem to think these people only do what they do out of some sick twisted deliberate attempt to cause harm.Thanks for being judgemental! No, there are plenty of players that don't intend harm. They just don't think or care that they cause harm. This is a distinctive line. Everyone sane knows that to juggle multiple people while lying to and deceiving them, is sociopathic behaviour to a degree, since there's a lack of remorse for their actions. In essence, they justify this behaviour by not having any empathy towards the people they hurt, for selfish gain. We're not talking about lying to avoid being abused. There's no trauma involved, while juggling multiple deceived people. As for your link, wiki won't do. Notice that it's not acknowledged as a DSM or by the psychiatry community in general?
Hkizzle Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 Thanks for being judgemental! No, there are plenty of players that don't intend harm. They just don't think or care that they cause harm. This is a distinctive line. Everyone sane knows that to juggle multiple people while lying to and deceiving them, is sociopathic behaviour to a degree, since there's a lack of remorse for their actions. In essence, they justify this behaviour by not having any empathy towards the people they hurt, for selfish gain. We're not talking about lying to avoid being abused. There's no trauma involved, while juggling multiple deceived people. As for your link, wiki won't do. Notice that it's not acknowledged as a DSM or by the psychiatry community in general? Look at loveslife's link, explains it as well. The thing is, the "shrink" community has all the behaviors and definitions mapped out years ago. Your opinions are wrong compared to established scientific research.
Trialbyfire Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 Look at loveslife's link, explains it as well. The thing is, the "shrink" community has all the behaviors and definitions mapped out years ago. Your opinions are wrong compared to established scientific research.Read loveslife's link. It discusses degrees of lying and harm associated with it. Lying to multiple partners to get your emotional and physical rocks off, is not a little white lie...
Hkizzle Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 Read loveslife's link. It discusses degrees of lying and harm associated with it. Lying to multiple partners to get your emotional and physical rocks off, is not a little white lie... That's your opinion. Your opinion about sociopaths is still wrong according to the pros.
Hkizzle Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 Read loveslife's link. It discusses degrees of lying and harm associated with it. Lying to multiple partners to get your emotional and physical rocks off, is not a little white lie... You confuse pathalogical liars with sociopaths..... Players that deceive are pathalogical liars and sociopaths. Most are not sociopaths though.
Trialbyfire Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 That's your opinion. Your opinion about sociopaths is still wrong according to the pros. Link something that disproves my comments, based on substantiated psychiatric community opinion, not a wiki article... You confuse pathalogical liars with sociopaths..... Players that deceive are pathalogical liars and sociopaths. Most are not sociopaths though.Pathological lying is a form of sociopathic behaviour... Errr...maybe you should reword that. Your first sentence conflicts with the second sentence.
Hkizzle Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 Link something that disproves my comments, based on substantiated psychiatric community opinion, not a wiki article... Pathological lying is a form of sociopathic behaviour... Errr...maybe you should reword that. Your first sentence conflicts with the second sentence. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathological_lying That (pathological lying), and this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder][/url] Which is a sociopath's behavior ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS! But you don't get it because it conflicts with your opinion. In other words, because you have your own opinion, you are unable to understand the information presented clearly that the two differ?
pandagirl Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 I think it's funny that J's dating profile stated three times how "honest" he was. How he "can't lie," and how is "honest to a fault." Sure, when asked a question he doesn't lie, but he had no problem not telling me about the other girl he was sleeping with. He saw no problem with that. I guess people have different perceptions about deception.
Trialbyfire Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathological_lying That (pathological lying), and this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder Which is a sociopath's behavior ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS! But you don't get it because it conflicts with your opinion. In other words, because you have your own opinion, you are unable to understand the information presented clearly that the two differ?Try again: People having antisocial personality disorder are sometimes referred to as "sociopaths" and "psychopaths", although some researchers believe that these terms are not synonymous with ASPD.[ And for that matter, why are you linking a debunked wiki article? I want REAL acknowledged psychiatric community opinions. Wiki can be written by just about anyone. And yes, pathological lying is a form of sociopathic behaviour.
Author loveslife Posted August 2, 2009 Author Posted August 2, 2009 Pathological lying is a form of sociopathic behaviour... No, it's not. TBF, I think Hkizzle is making some very valid points. I'm really confused about what getting you so worked up. You're not making sense.
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