WineCountry Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 You act as though being an Alcoholic removes someone from giving advice.. get over yourself... As someone who has dated Active Alcoholics/Drinkers myself through out my sobriety and who has been a child of an Alcoholic I can say that you all are full of shiot when you say that only a non addict can give advice.. What better place to get the truth of what is going on than to here it from the Recovered Drunk ? It sounds to me that those posters are also living without going to therapy themselves You guys could use a few meetings yourselves..and take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouths during those meetings.. To the OP.. you don't need to stop drinking and if your drinking bothers him then that should be a trigger to yourself that he is having a tough time dealing with it.. Many people don;t realize it but you can buy beer at every corner.. so if I wanted to drink I could and you drinking a beer around me isn't going to make me drink.. I myself am usually the DD in situations when people party.. I also mix drinks and buy Alcohol on occasion if going to a party... I just don't drink.. that is the biggest difference when you are around me.. My wife has some drinks on occasion as well.. no it doesn't bother me. Well Im glad someone said it. I was kind of wondering why people were saying you shouldnt take advice from a recovering drinker. I was like..who else knows a drinker better than a drinker (or ex drinker)??? Didnt seem to make sense to me. I mean dont get me wrong, the family/friends of drinkers have their input too, im sure. But in no way can you disregard what the ex-drinker knows. And ART, dont worry about someone snapping at you because they didnt like you putting them (or another posters) in their place over saying something like that. Good for you. In a way, it seems sad. From the comments on here, some poor slob can work hard, get himself clean and sober, get his life on track...and yet still be treated like dirt and looked at as damaged goods for the rest of his life. Wow. Folks have to REALLY be strong to get through that, and I commend those of you who have.
WineCountry Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 And to answer the OP question, it would depend on the amount of time since he stopped drinking. I do understand how quickly people can revert back to what they were doing. So, if it's only been 6 months, then no. For ME, if it's been at least 4 or 5 years, i would give the guy a chance. Not every single recovering alcoholic is going to fall off the wagon, or be an absolute basket case full of baggage. And let's not throw stones. There are TONS of major A-holes out here who have never had ANY addiction, yet can make your life a living hell with all their OTHER issues. As long as it's been a while since he last drank, and he seems to be doing well and handling himself well with that issue, AND you are compatible, i would give the guy a chance. Taking a chance is all you are doing with anyone you meet, because you never know what lurks around the corner with some of these people out here. Take it day by day, and dont 'create' things that look bad, if you can understand what i mean. Be honest with yourself about what you are seeing, and give the guy a chance unless he does something to lose that benefit of the doubt.
sally4sara Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 I was married to an alcoholic so dating one would be a step backwards. I feel it largely depends on what stage of recovery the person is at for a new person to safely date them. It would never be wise for me to date my ex, because we were together long enough for the way we interacted to now be triggers for my ex to drink. What I'm trying to say is a person in a relationship who struggles with maintaining sobriety will let their partner down over and over and over, to where the person with the drinking problem subconsciously believes their partner will never really back up any ultimatum for sobriety. As long as the two stay together, the alcoholic will have twice the difficulty in quitting alcohol. They've effectively turn any long term partner into someone capable of enabling actions. Both people would have to go to AA and Alanon to even stand a chance. If the two split up, the alcoholic has a better chance of learning a new lifestyle and behaviors that they can apply to a new relationship with a partner they don't identify as an enabler. The non alcoholic will stand a better chance of learning new, non enabling ways to manage relationships.
You'reasian Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 Well... As the title of my thread says...would you date a recovered alcoholic? The new guy that I'm starting to date (2 dates) just confessed that to me. I think it was brave of him telling me his situation so soon. I'm open minded, but I have mixed feelings at the moment? He seems a nice guy though. Opinions? My first question: Who diagnosed him as an alcoholic? Second question: What else does he have going for him?
You'reasian Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 It always blows my mind when people ask this!?!? does it matter who diagnosed them? Sure. If I drink more than 3-4 drinks a week, I'd consider that excessive drinking (for me). It would be easy for me to believe that someone who drank more is an "alcoholic" and frankly, I'm not qualified to diagnose that. I'm sure there's a standard out there?
Author Soulmind Posted August 2, 2009 Author Posted August 2, 2009 My first question: Who diagnosed him as an alcoholic? Second question: What else does he have going for him? Who diagnosed him as an alcoholic? I don't know... he told me he was a recovering one... What else does he have going for him? He works as Project manager in a company, he is divorced and no kids. He seems responsible and trustworthy tho, but as I said before, these are early days...
Quinch Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 I guess everyone deserves a second chance at happiness - even recovering alcoholics. I haven't read the entire thread here so forgive me if I'm repeating something said already but I would guess he told you so soon because he wants your help with the recovery process. It's not something he can do on his own and he's showing a lot of trust in someone he's not known very long (which could be seen as a good sign). Besides, most of us - by the time we reach our early or mid 30s - have some baggage or skeletons in our cupboards. We all have our demons to overcome so give the guy a chance. My two pence
gopher Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 I've been sober for 25 years, and never plan to drink again, one day at a time though:cool: I've dated women who wanted someone to drink wine with romantically...and it didn't work out. Also, dated one woman who said "You'd drink for me" uhhhhh no I wouldn't. LOL Still, I would be very leary of anyone who has had repeated "slips" or hasn't been sober for at least 3 years....good luck.
refurb Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 Unless the addict has been sober for YEARS and had A TON of therapy, I would not get involved. I would agree with this. You need to know for sure if the guy is actually recovered, or just taking a break. RF
EddieN Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 A lot of you fail to notice the past tense in recovered. Just because someone says they have recovered doesn't mean it's true, but why not at least give them the benefit of the doubt until they prove that they still have a problem? I just find the attitude that some people are expressing here to be incredibly elitist. "You're not worthy of me because you had a problem in the past." What, so all of you have made flawless decisions your entire lives and refuse to consider someone who had dark times in the past? People who say this are either lying to themselves or have been so pampered and spoiled their entire lives that they think everybody who is outside of their privileged flawless circle is beneath them. As I said, I had mental issues in the past. I went through some dark times. That says NOTHING about who I am now, though, and if anything it only makes the man I am now stronger. If a woman refused to even consider me because of my past, then that says a lot for her character.
RedDevil66 Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 A lot of you fail to notice the past tense in recovered. Just because someone says they have recovered doesn't mean it's true, but why not at least give them the benefit of the doubt until they prove that they still have a problem? I just find the attitude that some people are expressing here to be incredibly elitist. "You're not worthy of me because you had a problem in the past." What, so all of you have made flawless decisions your entire lives and refuse to consider someone who had dark times in the past? People who say this are either lying to themselves or have been so pampered and spoiled their entire lives that they think everybody who is outside of their privileged flawless circle is beneath them. As I said, I had mental issues in the past. I went through some dark times. That says NOTHING about who I am now, though, and if anything it only makes the man I am now stronger. If a woman refused to even consider me because of my past, then that says a lot for her character. No one here is saying they are not worthy or acting as en elitist. It's called self preservation and being with an addict is risky........very risky! Going through dark times and being an addict is like comparing apples to oranges. The only thing it says about a woman's character is she refuses to date a man with serious baggage is she has a survival instinct, not a bad character. A good example of bad character is the women mentioned above who tells a recovering addict she can get him to drink. Addicts ruin the lives of EVERYONE they love, so until you've walked in the shoes of loving an addict, you have no idea of the pain
RedDevil66 Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 I guess everyone deserves a second chance at happiness - even recovering alcoholics. I haven't read the entire thread here so forgive me if I'm repeating something said already but I would guess he told you so soon because he wants your help with the recovery process. It's not something he can do on his own and he's showing a lot of trust in someone he's not known very long (which could be seen as a good sign). Besides, most of us - by the time we reach our early or mid 30s - have some baggage or skeletons in our cupboards. We all have our demons to overcome so give the guy a chance. My two pence If he wants help with recovery, then he's still in trouble. The first thing you learn in al-alon is you do not enable an addict. yes everyone (even younger folks) have baggage, but addiction is a very intense form of baggage. I am not saying addicts cannot be loved. They are loved. They have wives, GF's, mother's, friends. But to start to date a guy who is in recovery it scary biz. The only way an addict can truly be in a fucntional relationship is if they have been sober a long time and had (or is in) therapy.
RedDevil66 Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 My first question: Who diagnosed him as an alcoholic? Second question: What else does he have going for him? Diagnosed? It's not an illness, it's a behavior and doesn't need a diagnosis. You drink too much to fill and void and cannot stop, you're an alcoholic.
Isolde Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 I'd give it a chance, but contingent on several things: that they're fully recovered, that they're open and honest about their past, that they possess adequate coping mechanisms to deal with life's challenges, and that they've taken the fullest action possible to prevent it from happening again. BTW, not all instances of alcoholism are caused by needing to fill a void. There are many, many sources, some of which reflect more on people's actual character, than others.
Sam Spade Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 Diagnosed? It's not an illness, it's a behavior and doesn't need a diagnosis. You drink too much to fill and void and cannot stop, you're an alcoholic. This is probably one of the dumbest things ever uttered on these forums. Telling an alcoholic to just not drink so much is the equivalent of telling a severly depressed person to "just cheer up". Just as very few people actually want to me don and miserable, very few people actually want to destroy their lives through drinking. (And the ones that do do want it are just even sicker).
Art_Critic Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 Diagnosed? It's not an illness, it's a behavior and doesn't need a diagnosis. You drink too much to fill and void and cannot stop, you're an alcoholic. Honestly that isn't true.. you really ought to read up on it or speak with some people that have Alcoholism.. It isn't just a behavior.. it is a disease that has bad behaviors attached to it.. You are right though that it really doesn't need a diagnosis and the person who needs to decide if they are an Alcoholic is the person who is dealing with the drinking issue.. Unless a person makes a conscience decision that they are an Alcoholic and are powerless over Alcohol then they will most likely keep drinking or falling off the wagon.. I read in one of your other threads that your BF goes to AA and has quit drinking and you are having trouble adapting to his lifestyle and that can be a big issue.. When I drank 22 years ago I was engaged and had lived with a woman for 4 years and without any doubt in my mind that if we had been together after I quit we wouldn't have made it becuase the reason we were together was now gone and we didn't have it in common anymore.. I was no longer a project for her to fix.. I hit my bottom and all the while I left a path of destruction in my life and it was all mine to fix.. just as I was...
Author Soulmind Posted August 2, 2009 Author Posted August 2, 2009 What, so all of you have made flawless decisions your entire lives and refuse to consider someone who had dark times in the past? People who say this are either lying to themselves or have been so pampered and spoiled their entire lives that they think everybody who is outside of their privileged flawless circle is beneath them. EddieN, I'm with you here! Even though I clearly understand both sides of the mirror. If someone had a "flawless" life, example : if someone has been lucky enough to have a comfortable life until now,(financial, healthy, family wise) and has all the support of your family (parents, siblings etc)...then is understandable that they don't want someone in their life that has been through lots of tribulations, and he/she will prefer someone that is "clean" of life problems... in my case for example, I live alone, my parents are dead, I'm divorced, and all of that only made me a stronger person, but, sometimes, when I try to help friends advising them to not fight or falling out with their families or parents, they don't understand ..They can't imagine themselves alone, because they are giving them for granted (Family) but once he/she has a tribulation is like a light is suddenly switch on in their lives and start caring. (I'm not generalizing, it's just personal experience) My point of view towards life and people are now very flexible and more understanding. You never know if you are going to be in the other side of the fence! And one day you will be the one that needs help/acceptance. One need to go through lots of good and bad experiences/turbulence (i.e addictions) in life to understand human nature and that WE are humans as well. Of course no need to be only addictions.. I can name insecurities, fears, phobias,complexes (there are lots of people with superiority complexes!) illnesses and can go on and on... What I want to say (sorry for the rambling!) is that doesn't matter what the person experienced good or bad in the past, the important step is to discover how good is she/he and feel the luckiest person to find her/him. That is why I asked for advice to see if I could find some red flags, because is the first time that I date a recovering alcoholic. But at the end of all, if he is good, definitely I'll give him a chance! Please Ignore any grammar mistakes, Spanish is my first language!
RedDevil66 Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 This is probably one of the dumbest things ever uttered on these forums. Telling an alcoholic to just not drink so much is the equivalent of telling a severly depressed person to "just cheer up". Just as very few people actually want to me don and miserable, very few people actually want to destroy their lives through drinking. (And the ones that do do want it are just even sicker). Who said "tell a drunk to just to not drink"? I never said that. I GET addictions, I just DO NOT classified them as an illness, because they are NOT! Addicts use the term illness in order to escape the responsbility of the action Dumb to you, reality to most!
Isolde Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 The only way an addict can truly be in a fucntional relationship is if they have been sober a long time and had (or is in) therapy. ^^ probably true, in instances where the alcoholism is serious (ie, need alcohol to be functional and therefore need to stop drinking completely) What about borderline alcoholism though? I know of people that used to drink way too much but then learned to tone it down ... guess that is not what OP is talking about though.
Art_Critic Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 But at the end of all, if he is good, definitely I'll give him a chance! There ya go.. it's no different than dating any other guy.. you have to keep your eyes open for red flags but right now the ffact that he is sober isn't a red flag... now if he is drinking or having trouble with it then you might want to pull away and let him hammer out his issues..
RedDevil66 Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 Honestly that isn't true.. you really ought to read up on it or speak with some people that have Alcoholism.. It isn't just a behavior.. it is a disease that has bad behaviors attached to it.. You are right though that it really doesn't need a diagnosis and the person who needs to decide if they are an Alcoholic is the person who is dealing with the drinking issue.. Unless a person makes a conscience decision that they are an Alcoholic and are powerless over Alcohol then they will most likely keep drinking or falling off the wagon.. I read in one of your other threads that your BF goes to AA and has quit drinking and you are having trouble adapting to his lifestyle and that can be a big issue.. When I drank 22 years ago I was engaged and had lived with a woman for 4 years and without any doubt in my mind that if we had been together after I quit we wouldn't have made it becuase the reason we were together was now gone and we didn't have it in common anymore.. I was no longer a project for her to fix.. I hit my bottom and all the while I left a path of destruction in my life and it was all mine to fix.. just as I was... I do not drink, I am 45 yrs old and he stopped drinking all on his own. I went to AA and al-alon to support him. My issues with my BF involve his kids and his other issues, not his drinking
Art_Critic Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 Addicts use the term illness in order to escape the responsbility of the action Funny.. I used it to accept my responsibility of all my actions and my past actions of who I had hurt thru my drinking not dodge them.. You really ought to go to some Alanon meetings..
RedDevil66 Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 and I need to add, you say I should talk to alcoholics, I said it already, I've been to AA and al-anon, Ive been with two addicts, come from a family of alcoholics and have two friends who are addicts. I really do get it
Art_Critic Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 I do not drink, I am 45 yrs old and he stopped drinking all on his own. I went to AA and al-alon to support him. This is off topic to this thread but this is why I said that... I'm sorry for the crap he has put you thru.. I left again, thennnnnnnnnnn 2 weeks later he told me he's in AA and wants to do better. I believed him. He came over and opened up and talked about all the cr*p on is life he wants to change and everything I said was true! Then he went to AA every single night and totally neglected me for 2 months. He was all of a sudden better than me and was rejecting me! OP.. sorry for the threadjack.. I'm done
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