moo Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 I don't think believing in God makes one weak...heck, you have to swear on a bible in court! There's lots of unexplained things. How is it possible a sperm and egg can combine together to form a baby? That's wild. Lots of unexplained things. I always leave room for the unknown. In Dante's Book "The Divine Comedy" the first circle of Hell was for non-believers destined to go through time wandering, feeling lost. Sometimes I wonder, what happens when judgement day comes. If there really is a God, and I'm not a strong believer what will happen? I really hope there is a God...I simply don't know, I guess that is what faith is all about, believeing in something in the absence of proof.
utterer of lies Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 I don't think believing in God makes one weak... It's the other way round. Weakness makes one believe in God. How is it possible a sperm and egg can combine together to form a baby? That's wild. Lots of unexplained things. I always leave room for the unknown. Maybe you should get some kind of basic science education 'The blind Watchmaker' by Richard Dawkins might be a good start, too. Sometimes I wonder, what happens when judgement day comes. But the concept of judgment day is part of what I was referring to. No human can ever completely judge another human. Evil is not absolute, Guilt neither. So the church just says "God knows everything, he will judge all the evil men." This belief makes living in an unfair and imperfect world much easier, because those who do bad things and profit will be punished later on, in death, and thus, the world is no longer as imperfect and unfair. If there really is a God, and I'm not a strong believer what will happen? Fear and intimidation are one of the oldest weapons of any religion. Do what we (God) says, or suffer! I really hope there is a God...I simply don't know, I guess that is what faith is all about, believeing in something in the absence of proof. Luckily, we live in a place in the world where we can decide for ourselves what we want to believe in. Some people I know are happier because they believe, others exactly because they don't. Each to his own.
westernxer Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 I used to like you western, but your COMPLETE INABILITY to place yourself in my shoes is just sad. How do you know where I've been? LOL Do yourself a favor and don't give any more advice. Show this kind of attitude toward your ex and you'll be on the road to recovery. God is already out of the picture. LOL
Author Thomas X Forever Posted August 2, 2009 Author Posted August 2, 2009 Utterer brings up good points... I should have said this from the start.. I should have realized this from the start... but I do believe there IS SOME higher power. I just DON'T believe he's the God we pray to, who answers our prayers happily.
contax Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 Cool man, keep laughing at your own jokes, because that's, like, really cool. You've really helped a lot man, I'm so glad you took the time to write and laugh at your own advice. I used to like you western, but your COMPLETE INABILITY to place yourself in my shoes is just sad. Do yourself a favor and don't give any more advice. As for the rest of you, lori, etc.. All your stories are welcomed.. I'm glad to hear them... I'm glad but also sad to hear others have also gone through this. It's just too difficult to believe in God, when you scream at him through tears, begging him to listen to ONE SINCERE PRAYER. After all I've given HIM, all I asked is for HIM TO LISTEN TO ONE PRAYER. You know what my tears, begging, screaming, pleading, sincere prayer got me? I bet you can guess. It starts with "S" and rhymes with violence. For those rhyme challenged............................ silence. You just overeacted to that dudes comment. That shows you're venerable to what people say. Also dependent on others to get you out of this. Remember when you were in love with your girl? That's God right there. That feeling. Who gave you that feeling - the girl? No. You did. You just are wired to think you need an external source. Being God centered or Prinicple centered is on point. Utter of lies is funny. It's like your name is utter of lies, your profile pic is a beast, and your parading your belief in no God with proof to back it. You can back any belief you want. If thats what you do by all means. I keep an air tight aliance with people of integirty. I'm chilling alone now, and I'm happy. I make money from a career I love, grew up in the ghetto, got out and still believe in Christ. It's basically about following my heart and conscience. Everyone knows in their heart of hearts whats right and wrong....following your heart on minute levels organizes your life well. Choosing not to - lying, cheating stealing - your always running away from people and having to start over in new towns. lol. It's all good, bottom line is - I hope Thomas heals, and please direct me to your original post on what happened - your situation.
Enema Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 Millions of: - Staving children - Sick and dying - Oppressed and enslaved ...offer prayers to god every day that are ignored as they die pitifully. But you thought he would listen to a prayer about your dating life?
Author Thomas X Forever Posted August 2, 2009 Author Posted August 2, 2009 You just overeacted to that dudes comment. That shows you're venerable to what people say. Also dependent on others to get you out of this. Remember when you were in love with your girl? That's God right there. That feeling. Who gave you that feeling - the girl? No. You did. You just are wired to think you need an external source. Being God centered or Prinicple centered is on point. I have to hand it to you, you're observant and naturally intelligent in psychology. (Unless you studied it). But yes, I suffer from a minor form of Dependent Personality Disorder. As for my original post.. I'm not sure where it is anymore.. I'll give you the highlights I dated her for over a year After about 8 months, I fell in love I thought I would marry this girl one day Everything was good. I ****ed up with some stupid stuff, but overall treated her very good I trusted her, she trusted me I never broke her trust Out of nowhere, she broke up with me one day She said she needed space, and was too young to be tied down. (It was her parents who got into her head. Her dad particularly encouraged her to work on school, and that she shouldnt have a bf while shes at this pivotal stage in schooling). I went NC She asked how I could cut her off like that after us talking every day for over a year I asked her back how SHE could cut out someone who talked to her everyday and was always good to her She didn't know what to say A few months later I asked her on a date after she said how bad she misses me We went on the date, and we both broke down and cried We held eachother and kissed, and she said she never stopped loving me and still does The next few days, she kept saying she loves me, every night Then she said she wants to go on a vacation with me this summer. She always wanted to. A few days later, I'm about to make reservations, when she says her dad won't let her go. (Shes 18 but lives with parents). Then she also couldn't hang out that week. I went back to NC. Haven't ever heard from her since.
quankanne Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 You know what my tears, begging, screaming, pleading, sincere prayer got me? I bet you can guess. It starts with "S" and rhymes with violence. For those rhyme challenged............................ silence. my first answer was "shxt"
Author Thomas X Forever Posted August 2, 2009 Author Posted August 2, 2009 Millions of: - Staving children - Sick and dying - Oppressed and enslaved ...offer prayers to god every day that are ignored as they die pitifully. But you thought he would listen to a prayer about your dating life? Who cares about all those people. I'm a model. HAH jk ofcourse. This topic needed SOME kind of humor. My heart really does go out to the Ethiopians and sick stricken. I'd pray for them if I thought the prayers would go anywhere.
quankanne Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 and the truth comes out ... TX, I don't think it has as much to do with prayers as it does with you being involved with an immature AND selfish little miss. It's okay for her to ignore or cut you off, but she doesn't like it when you chose to go no contact? Sorry, but that says this relationship is about her and what she can get, rather than about Y'ALL. She wouldn't knowingly treat you like shxt if she was a decent sort ... maybe this silence is the period for you to figure this out for yourself. Remember what they say: God helps those who helps themselves. He gave you a noggin to use, and expects you to come to your own conclusions. Pray for guidance, if anything. I'd pray for them if I thought the prayers would go anywhere. they do ... it takes you away from selfish wants and needs and puts others first. Always a good thing in my book!
Taucher Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 I agree with Utterer of Lies completely. I am always nervous about talking about this because it is a very personal issue for people and I also have a pathalogical fear of offending people! I find it strange when people say, for example, "how can a sperm and egg meet to produce a baby? It MUST be a higher power." I find the idea of chemical reactions, biology and science etc MUCH easier to get my head round then it being the work of an omnipresent being who created EVERYTHING. There is nothing in science which can compete with that for sheer unexplainable massive weirdness. Also, the idea of a god is not a comfortable one for me. God is meant to judge us when we die right? And according to religious texts, you will be judged badly and go to hell (someone at work tells me regularly that I am destined for Hell) if you have not praised God in your life. Well, that does not take into account how I am, what I am like as a person (I am pretty moral and a pretty nice person). But if you worship God, you can do all sorts of sh*t and your happiness is assured?! Pah! Believing in science and a world with no God gives me peace. T
quankanne Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 hey taucher, welcome to the discussion. bringing up fertilization/conception is an interesting point ... because it's my number one example of the power of God. I wish I could remember where I read it, but apparently, creation of a zygote happens against high odds. Science plays a great role when things like in vitro fertilization and other procedures are introduced, but it's still pretty much a miracle when it happens. Because while man can help the process along, he cannot "create" the human – body and soul – that is part of an ancient template I believe is programmed by a higher power. Man, in his great knowledge, can only do so much. But that's my own two cents, seen from a position of wonder and awe of what the Big Guy can do. the other subject you touch on, well, that one kind of chaps my hide. Not your POV, but people assuming to know what God's got planned for you (esp. the Christian folks). As a Catholic Christian, I accept that Jesus came to fulfill the Old Testament prophesy, and that he was a pretty smart cookie into boiling down to the Golden Rule: Love God, and love one another. My personal theory is that when someone dies, God's not going to ask, did you believe, did you do this, did you do that. rather, his one question is going to be, "Did you love as I loved you? Did you? Or did you just say you did? Be honest here." those people who profess Christ and God with their lips, but not their hearts, are the ones who are fooling themselves. They might buy into salvation, but only as fire insurance, not as a way of living.
ryanrabl Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 I sympathize for you Thomas..but has it ever ocurred to you that your ex was a girl of the moment and not your life.I realize that you love her..but if she wanted to be with you so bad..what is stopping her?Dont fall for that BS about her wanting space.You sound like a great guy and cared dearly for her.A heartbreak is one of the hardest things you can go through,we all have our low points..trust me i have. But for you too doubt god is...(not to be rude) pretty pathetic.I am a firm believer in "everything happens for a reason".If you keep feeling sad,how would you enjoy life.If the girl of your dreams walked by..you would be too numb too notice it.I hope that all of us find the SO of our dreams.There are moments where i miss my fiancee..but i accept the fact that she is gone and probably happier..and due too unconditional love if she feels happier without me then great!Its hard to swallow at first..but you gotta let go.Arent you a model at Penn State?She was not your soulmate or your future wife..she is still out there for you!
D-Lish Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 Believing in science and a world with no God gives me peace. T Me too! Good post.
westernxer Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 I realize that you love her..but if she wanted to be with you so bad..what is stopping her? She's 18. LOL
ryanrabl Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 oooo...missed that detail LOL..girls at that age dont know what the hell they want..youll find another guaranteed..only if you get out this funk and reclaim yourself
Author Thomas X Forever Posted August 3, 2009 Author Posted August 3, 2009 All of your posts have brought something new and an outlook I appreciate on both ends... Thank you all... I say that genuinely. And ryan, thank you too. I'm glad you feel I'm a great guy. If I could change one thing about me, it'd be the fact I can't see that part of me. There was one specific thing I wanted to reply to in regards to you, however. Arent you a model at Penn State I go to Penn State, and I'm a model, but they're two separate things lol. I don't model for penn state. That's an interesting idea though. In fact I don't model for pretty much anything any more. The only thing I ever did that was worth mentioning, is Calvin Klein. God I love CK. Such badass clothes. I wish I could have a couple thousand dollar shopping spree at CK.
CaliGuy Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 It's just too difficult to believe in God, when you scream at him through tears, begging him to listen to ONE SINCERE PRAYER. After all I've given HIM, all I asked is for HIM TO LISTEN TO ONE PRAYER.. Thomas, Thomas, Thomas. I am not trying to minimize your hurt here, but think about this. You have a broken heart and you WILL heal. What about the people whose spouse has died? How about my Grandmother who had to sit through her daughter's funeral (no parent should be put through that!) There are people who are dying of cancer, who are homeless, who are beaten senseless every day. There are women who are living with abusive husbands. Children than are molested or beaten EVERY DAY. Kids who have nothing to eat. The homeless who are starving and unloved. You have a broken heart. It will heal, trust me. But if you want to know what God's plans are for you, pray. Then get off your butt and help someone who needs it. Help a homeless person. Volunteer at a soup kitchen. Be a Big Brother (something I want to do and will do!). Do you see what I am saying here? I know you have a broken heart and from your perspective, life is caving in on you and God is somehow deaf to your cries. Trust me, He has better plans for you. You won't understand it now, but you will one day.
whichwayisup Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 I agree, giving back during your own grieving can be theraputic, help you heal and also it will allow you to focus on others and forget your own pain, atleast for part of the day. If you can't pray, have hope. Hope that you will feel better. Tomorrow is always a new day.
Author Thomas X Forever Posted August 3, 2009 Author Posted August 3, 2009 What about the people whose spouse has died? How about my Grandmother who had to sit through her daughter's funeral (no parent should be put through that!) Wonder why God isn't answering THEIR prayers? There are people who are dying of cancer, My mom was one of them. [ there are people ] who are homeless, who are beaten senseless every day. There are women who are living with abusive husbands. Children than are molested or beaten EVERY DAY. Kids who have nothing to eat. The homeless who are starving and unloved. So what retains your face through these situations? Where is God? Look, I'm not trying to criticize you for helping. You are absolutely one of my favorite posters here, don't get me wrong. I value your advice greatly, and am not trying to pick you apart to make you look bad or stupid. I'm merely asking you these questions legitimately because I am curious of your answer. Don't get me wrong. I want to believe in God. He's just made it extremely hard, not only for my hardships and losses, but also for all those examples you've mentioned. Where's God when an innocent child is murdered. Here's the answer. The same place he is when I'm screaming at him through tears... He 'somewhere' and is not concerned. I wish you could make me see what I'm missing, and explain why God doesn't seem to care. Because I truly do want to believe in God. I find the concept of God much more promising than 'nothing'. I just don't know how to believe through this anymore.
contax Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 I have to hand it to you, you're observant and naturally intelligent in psychology. (Unless you studied it). But yes, I suffer from a minor form of Dependent Personality Disorder. As for my original post.. I'm not sure where it is anymore.. I'll give you the highlights I dated her for over a year After about 8 months, I fell in love I thought I would marry this girl one day Everything was good. I ****ed up with some stupid stuff, but overall treated her very good I trusted her, she trusted me I never broke her trust Out of nowhere, she broke up with me one day She said she needed space, and was too young to be tied down. (It was her parents who got into her head. Her dad particularly encouraged her to work on school, and that she shouldnt have a bf while shes at this pivotal stage in schooling). I went NC She asked how I could cut her off like that after us talking every day for over a year I asked her back how SHE could cut out someone who talked to her everyday and was always good to her She didn't know what to say A few months later I asked her on a date after she said how bad she misses me We went on the date, and we both broke down and cried We held eachother and kissed, and she said she never stopped loving me and still does The next few days, she kept saying she loves me, every night Then she said she wants to go on a vacation with me this summer. She always wanted to. A few days later, I'm about to make reservations, when she says her dad won't let her go. (Shes 18 but lives with parents). Then she also couldn't hang out that week. I went back to NC. Haven't ever heard from her since. Thanks for your compliment, I appreciate it! It doesn't sound like your ex is with another guy. If I were in your situation, I would probably try to get back with her too. I would say make a real decision. It sounds like your in a dilema. Dilemas ar a sign your paradigm is off on the situation. You've got a bad way of thinking of it. Make the decision. It does sound tricky though. My girl jumped into a rebound after 3 days of our breakup. We were together for 5 years. I chose to forgive, so now I'm thinking of her less and less everyday. "Not to forgive is like drinking a glass of poison &waiting for your enemies to die." Nelson Mandela BUT forgiving someone does not mean that you condone their actions. I hope you find a good girl and I hope I find a good girl. Enjoy your night!
utterer of lies Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 bringing up fertilization/conception is an interesting point ... because it's my number one example of the power of God. I wish I could remember where I read it, but apparently, creation of a zygote happens against high odds. Why are all these 'impossible' odds examples still around? The power of evolution, the mind-blowing complexity of systems that can be 'generated' by nothing but iteration and a suitable fitness function (in real life: survival) is known for decades now. Today, we can run computer simulations where all the parameters are accounted for (since we programmed them), and show that environment, randomness and selection are enough to generate the most complex of systems. If you are interested in this, I can only recommend 'The Blind Watchmaker' by Richard Dawkins, again. Science plays a great role when things like in vitro fertilization and other procedures are introduced, but it's still pretty much a miracle when it happens. Because while man can help the process along, he cannot "create" the human – body and soul – that is part of an ancient template I believe is programmed by a higher power. All science is magic for those who don't understand it, and I don't really see how we get from 'we do not know every little detail yet' to 'there must be a magical outside force involved' (God).
CaliGuy Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 Wonder why God isn't answering THEIR prayers? Who said He is isn't? Remember, God's timing doesn't always coincide with ours. And that's a good thing because what we want is not always good for us. God isn't a "magic genie in a bottle." He is the creator of all things, not a lamp we rub to get our every whim met. Thank God He didn't let me marry the psycho that brought me here or I'd be in a miserable marriage or divorced. And at one time, I would have killed to have her. Now, I'm grateful I dodged that bullet My mom was one of them. "Was"?? Did she pass or is she still around? So what retains your face through these situations? Where is God? I explained earlier why God allows strife, suffering and such earlier. He said he would and it's to build character. It makes us stronger and builds our faith. Look, I'm not trying to criticize you for helping. You are absolutely one of my favorite posters here, don't get me wrong. I value your advice greatly, and am not trying to pick you apart to make you look bad or stupid. I'm merely asking you these questions legitimately because I am curious of your answer. Nobody knows for sure, Thomas (Doubting Thomas, I might add ). Do you read your Bible? Read Job if you want to see what true strife and faith in God is all about. One of our Pastors lost his son in a car accident. He's a PASTOR (and quite well known). While he was heartbroken, he did understand that God's plans for us are not our own. We will never understand (nor can we) what His plans are. What we can do is learn to accept His will and be grateful He loves us. One thing I do know: God is faithful to those who are faithful to Him. I understand you lost someone you love. We all have at one time or another. But this should not be a definining moment in your life. You have a greater purpose in this life than to love just one person. Don't get me wrong. I want to believe in God. He's just made it extremely hard, not only for my hardships and losses, but also for all those examples you've mentioned. Where's God when an innocent child is murdered. Here's the answer. The same place he is when I'm screaming at him through tears... He 'somewhere' and is not concerned. I wish you could make me see what I'm missing, and explain why God doesn't seem to care. Because I truly do want to believe in God. I find the concept of God much more promising than 'nothing'. I just don't know how to believe through this anymore. Hey Thomas, when my mom died I was in the same place as you. Why?! I was doubting God, hurt, angry, etc. But I also came to the realization that my mom is in a much better place than down here. At least there she isn't miserable. And when I came to terms with it, I wasn't angry at God anymore. I was angry because all I cared about was my own needs. I didn't think about how much pain my mom was in and that at God's side, she no longer suffers. Honestly you have to trust that God's plans are better for you than yours. One question I have for you: Is your faith dependent on God giving you everything you want in life? Or is your faith grounded in the fact that God has plans for good for you? You know, God did say (more than once) that you will face trials in your life. But He will never put you through anything that you can handle (with faith). What I am saying here is that you need to keep the faith that God's plans are better for you than yours. I'm going to rejoice with you when you meet that new girl, but I don't think you're going to meet her if you are angry at God and the world. You do need to accept what happened and understand that what you are going through we have ALL faced in our lives before. (And in my case, lol, more than once). You will meet someone else and fall in love again (and wonder why God is so good to you). But not until you earnestly work and forgiving her, forgiving yourself and getting your life on the right track. YOU ARE NOT DEFINED BY WHO YOU LOVE OR WHO LOVES YOU. Always remember that.
Author Thomas X Forever Posted August 3, 2009 Author Posted August 3, 2009 Your post was very good and I appreciate it cali guy. I accept your points, but there's one thing I'd like to ask about. He will never put you through anything that you cannot handle (with faith). So then why do people commit suicide? And why do some people starve to death, as you mentioned earlier. And yes, like you, my mom died. And I wasn't only good to God when he gave me things. I stuck by him despite my mom dying, and many other hardships in life. It's just that these things are too hard to ignore anymore. Religion has too many contradictions... and if you were about to commit suicide, but prayed to God to give you the strength, wisdom, insight, or even to have him stop you literally, nothing would change. You could still take your life, it's all you, in your hands. That same principle is universal. That's why God didn't give me back anything he took.
TaraMaiden Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 Well, I'm sorry. If this thread was in the 'Religion & Spirituality' forum, I'd zip it and keep my yap shut, but.... God is as impermanent and fallible as any human being is The existence of a God is dependent on 'his' followers. That is to say - If all humans stopped thinking about God - he wouldn't exist any more. Buddhism has Gods, but they're more repersentative of specific qualities we aspire to. And the 'Gods' revered in buddhism are also subject to Old age, Sickness and death...just as much as any human is. The God of Christianity is subject to a temporal existence. he arose as an idea, and exists as an unknown quantity, a conjectured essence, embodying different things to different people. I have found it difficult to even get Christians to agree on a definition or personification of what they think God is.
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