What is the lowest thing the MM/MW/OW/OM did to keep the A going?

July 31, 2009

With all the serious threads regarding emotions and issues involved in an A, I thought it would be interesting to share the measures people go to in order to keep the A alive. On a side note, I also think it is interesting how similar the tactics of those invested in keeping the A can really be. There have already been so many discussions regarding the methods employed to hook the AP, so why not take a look at the ways they try to keep it going?

I'll go first...

crying about how lonely he is
"problems" with his children
"issues" with his pets
I "know him better than anyone else"...
saying he loves me
hot & cold demeanor - kept me guessing what was going on & often times feeling like he was upset with me when I had done nothing wrong
confiding his "secrets"
acting jealous - calling & texting incessantly when I was out
injecting personal communication into work correspondence after I ended it & initiated NC (only work related C)

July 31, 2009

Are you looking for trouble... I bet you get it in spades... these "surveys" always turn into major t/js

good luck.

Ill give you one. A few months after it was over he started talking about leaving. I didnt believe him at first and ignored him. Then I listened for a few months but didnt go back. A few months later, when I started to believe it might be for real, he said I misunderstood....

A year after it was over, he was still chasing me around the globe (literally) with phone calls at all hours etc that needed my immediate attention, and then when I banned him (as he kept insisting it was all business and he was over me) he made up another business emergency a month or so later and asked me to take him back (it didnt happen).

Hes spent the past 9 months with all sorts of antics, too obscure to list all in one go but hes persistent. He still thinks about leaving. Its something to do while youre waiting for the plane to take off, while you are sitting in a boring meeting or conf call:rolleyes: I think he'll be thinking about it when hes 80.... its like a relaxing meditation for him. What if I left and made a life with jj... ahh... life would be so sweet...

Luckily when I was in it I never expected him to leave. So that wasnt a problem. It was disappointing afterwards when he brought it up out of nowhere only to make it into the think tank project for the new miillenium...

July 31, 2009

JJ - thanks for sharing. I've seen from your threads that you're handling your xMM really well.

In answer to your question, I'm not looking for trouble. I'm just curious to see if the methods employed to keep the A are as similar as those used to start the A in the first place. Then again curiousity killed the cat, right?

I know you're probably right - it probably will lead to a lot of infighting but I hope not. I'd like to think that people can respond honestly without the nastiness that pervades so many threads. Here's hoping...

July 31, 2009

Well its been a long time now. Everything gets easier with practice...

A year or so ago it was so bad that I would walk out of social events after 15 minutes or so because I couldnt bear to be at the same table with him. And at least one person figured it out from that. So I would leave and then I would harangue him for the next 4 days and be totally enraged and depressed. I didnt go back but I let it really upset me.

Now I am finally at a point where I dont fight anymore. Nothing he does anymore provokes a reaction from me. He tries. All sorts of little things that even 6 months ago would have earned him a phone call or an email (because any attention is attention even if its negative).

But I dont reward that behavior anymore. And he knows that the fact that I dont care enough to complain means Ive moved on emotionally. And I can see its getting to him (when I have to see him face to face) but thats life. He made his choice. Now hes living with it.

July 31, 2009

With all the serious threads regarding emotions and issues involved in an A, I thought it would be interesting to share the measures people go to in order to keep the A alive. On a side note, I also think it is interesting how similar the tactics of those invested in keeping the A can really be. There have already been so many discussions regarding the methods employed to hook the AP, so why not take a look at the ways they try to keep it going?

I'll go first...

crying about how lonely he is
"problems" with his children
"issues" with his pets
I "know him better than anyone else"...
saying he loves me
hot & cold demeanor - kept me guessing what was going on & often times feeling like he was upset with me when I had done nothing wrong
confiding his "secrets"
acting jealous - calling & texting incessantly when I was out
injecting personal communication into work correspondence after I ended it & initiated NC (only work related C)

The OW ended the A with my H 3 or 4 years ago. Then last year her H died in a terrible accident and she contacted my H. Shortly after that a member of our family died in an eerily similar manner.

I discovered the e-mails sent between my H and the OW in which they talked about an on-going connection between the 2 of them (because of the 2 deaths). Basically they were both "using" the deaths to try to lure each other back, but this time she wasn't content to be just the OW on the sidelines.

I found out about it, was devastated in a typical BW manner and he quickly "threw her under the bus" as everyone calls it here.

It was utterly disgusting the way she used the death of her H and my own H used the death of our family member to try to resurrect the A.

S

July 31, 2009

Basically they were both "using" the deaths to try to lure each other back, but this time she wasn't content to be just the OW on the sidelines.

I found out about it, was devastated in a typical BW manner and he quickly "threw her under the bus" as everyone calls it here.

It was utterly disgusting the way she used the death of her H and my own H used the death of our family member to try to resurrect the A.

S

Sid, under the general heading of "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice...", why would you stay in a marriage where your H seems so actively bent on cheating on you ???

Mr. Lucky

July 31, 2009

I think the worst thing is the lying. Period. Whatever form it takes, the lying is used to manipulate and control.

July 31, 2009

I think the worst thing is the lying. Period. Whatever form it takes' date=' the lying is used to manipulate and control.[/quote']Agreed....Yeah I lied but I got out of my marriage and got my divorce. The lying was eating me up so much I was throwing up all the time. I can at least say I have peace right now.

For me it was religion she used to keep me there....

August 1, 2009

Sid, under the general heading of "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice...", why would you stay in a marriage where your H seems so actively bent on cheating on you ???

Mr. Lucky

I've had only the one d-day and I believe that he deserves another chance. It isn't easy for me because of everything that went on before d-day. Everything is going well right now. No further chances if he makes a choice to cheat again.

S

August 1, 2009

I guess I made the mistake of trusting a liar. I knew he did it to her but didn't make the connection that he was doing it to me too. No one could do that for so long and why would they especially when they loved me and saw how I would get so emotional. Guess I figured when someone looks you in the eye when you tell them that they can't handle you hurting them and tell you how much they love you - you believe it.

He wrote me letters of pages and pages of how he would never lie or hurt me. Ever word was a lie.

August 1, 2009

New here but not to the board.

Seriously are you asking this?

I am the OW or was prior to it ending.

In the first week ending our relationship (and yes like it or not we also had a relationship) I did email him telling him I was having a hard time and also that I loved him ( I do and will always)

We are humans, much like you and believe it or not while I have no desire to have him, I did experience a difficult time.

Wasn't a ploy to get him back but we were always honest with each other and that continued through until our MUTUAL decision of NC.

I can also tell you I had and have no interest in their relationship, it's THEIRS for a reason.

And it sounds as the starter of the thread was the WS?

Does it make you feel good to laugh at your previous AP and their emotions?

Whoever your AP was, they are certainly better off.

August 1, 2009

Wasn't a ploy to get him back but we were always honest with each other and that continued through until our MUTUAL decision of NC.

Not a slam but I am actually curious. Why would you - or any other OW/M - think that your AP would be truly honest with you when you clearly know they are lying to their spouse? Why would he be "always honest" with you and dishonest with her?

Mr. Lucky

August 1, 2009

Not a slam but I am actually curious. Why would you - or any other OW/M - think that your AP would be truly honest with you when you clearly know they are lying to their spouse? Why would he be "always honest" with you and dishonest with her?

Mr. Lucky

No offense, I think it is a fair question. Our situation may have been different than many (or the same).

He had no reason to lie to me, simple. I knew what I was getting involved in * (didn't anticipate it would become emotional and if I knew then what I know know) but we were extremely close, and he had closed a very large part of himself to not only his wife but everyone for years. When he could just be himself, it left nothing for him to hide.

It is a long story and far TMI, but even through the DDay and until our last day of contact we were honest ( even in the emotional episodes that went on in the end) we didn't hide who we were. The good the bad and the ugly.

Loving someone is understand and accepting their imperfections and it is also letting them go when that is the best for everyone.

August 1, 2009

With all the serious threads regarding emotions and issues involved in an A, I thought it would be interesting to share the measures people go to in order to keep the A alive. On a side note, I also think it is interesting how similar the tactics of those invested in keeping the A can really be. There have already been so many discussions regarding the methods employed to hook the AP, so why not take a look at the ways they try to keep it going?

Maybe my A is different. But he did nothing to rope me into the A - it began pretty mutually - though perhaps reluctantly, on both sides. And I think we have spent the most part trying to end it...not continue.

Not a slam but I am actually curious. Why would you - or any other OW/M - think that your AP would be truly honest with you when you clearly know they are lying to their spouse? Why would he be "always honest" with you and dishonest with her?

Mr. Lucky

I find it interesting when xOW say he lied. My MM has not lied.

Now, perhaps that is because we initially started dating when we were both separated. Most of the books I have read about post-divorce dating talk about how the next relationship is so open and honest. We were very honest then, and we are very honest now.

The only thing he was perhaps not honest about - neither to himself nor me, was the the depth of his feelings for me when he decided to try and reconcile. He tried to push those away to make his M work.

To discover in middle age what love can really be like, and feel like is not always a great thing. Especially when that love is not for your SO. The obligations of M and family take precedence over care of self. And our A has ended a few times due to his obligations. I know that people dismiss the A as being the epitome of selfishness, but we have struggled to end it several times. And this sounds cliche, but our love for each other continues to pull us back together.

We have very openly discussed that we will be honest with each other, even if it causes intense pain for the other. This honesty has caused us much pain on more than one occasion.

Honesty is one of the cornerstones of building a strong R. In my mind and my heart, we have begun that process. Communication is another cornerstone that we have put in place.

I am cautiously optimistic that we will be together. He says he is leaving and is working towards that end at home. Do I have a date? No. He doesn't know precisely how long it will take. He has been through the separation process before and he understands the dynamics of it. He will take the time he needs to end his M.

Ending a M is not easy. Especially when kids are involved. I have done it and it was not done quickly or without thought for what was best for all involved.

If it becomes a drawn out situation, then I am free to move on. And will do so, after discussing it with him.

August 1, 2009

One of the last times I left MM, he moved out for 3 days just to suck me back in (he later admitted it was a merely a "stunt"). I knew it wouldn't last and it was purely to show me that he was supposedly gearing up to move out for real. He spent the last night of the 3 days at my house and it was awful to watch him go home again. Since moving out for real 4 months after the stunt, he still strings along the W by not telling her it's over and spends most evenings at the W's house - just enough to almost erase moving out in the 1st place - 5 months ago. He's gone to great lengths to keep having it both ways. I think that's pretty low.

August 1, 2009

Telling me 3 times that he was going to leave his W. The time would come and pass and I would just feel crushed each time and angry at myself for allowing it to happen and for the hell he was putting his W through.

So the last time, I walked away from him....in my eyes for good....

August 2, 2009

The only thing he was perhaps not honest about - neither to himself nor me, was the the depth of his feelings for me when he decided to try and reconcile. He tried to push those away to make his M work.

To discover in middle age what love can really be like, and feel like is not always a great thing. Especially when that love is not for your SO. The obligations of M and family take precedence over care of self. And our A has ended a few times due to his obligations. I know that people dismiss the A as being the epitome of selfishness, but we have struggled to end it several times. And this sounds cliche, but our love for each other continues to pull us back together.

We have very openly discussed that we will be honest with each other, even if it causes intense pain for the other. This honesty has caused us much pain on more than one occasion.

Honesty is one of the cornerstones of building a strong R. In my mind and my heart, we have begun that process. Communication is another cornerstone that we have put in place.

I have probably attempted to make this statement a thousand times and never as clear or direct as you have.

August 2, 2009

Maybe my A is different. But he did nothing to rope me into the A - it began pretty mutually - though perhaps reluctantly, on both sides. And I think we have spent the most part trying to end it...not continue.

I find it interesting when xOW say he lied. My MM has not lied.

Now, perhaps that is because we initially started dating when we were both separated. Most of the books I have read about post-divorce dating talk about how the next relationship is so open and honest. We were very honest then, and we are very honest now.

The only thing he was perhaps not honest about - neither to himself nor me, was the the depth of his feelings for me when he decided to try and reconcile. He tried to push those away to make his M work.

To discover in middle age what love can really be like, and feel like is not always a great thing. Especially when that love is not for your SO. The obligations of M and family take precedence over care of self. And our A has ended a few times due to his obligations. I know that people dismiss the A as being the epitome of selfishness, but we have struggled to end it several times. And this sounds cliche, but our love for each other continues to pull us back together.

We have very openly discussed that we will be honest with each other, even if it causes intense pain for the other. This honesty has caused us much pain on more than one occasion.

Honesty is one of the cornerstones of building a strong R. In my mind and my heart, we have begun that process. Communication is another cornerstone that we have put in place.

I am cautiously optimistic that we will be together. He says he is leaving and is working towards that end at home. Do I have a date? No. He doesn't know precisely how long it will take. He has been through the separation process before and he understands the dynamics of it. He will take the time he needs to end his M.

Ending a M is not easy. Especially when kids are involved. I have done it and it was not done quickly or without thought for what was best for all involved.

If it becomes a drawn out situation, then I am free to move on. And will do so, after discussing it with him.

I was wondering if I could ask you a question. No disrespect intended, however I am sincerely interested in understanding this dynamic.

You indicate that the two of you were separated when you began dating and that you have moved on to ending the marriage. At the same time he moved back home to work on his marriage.

If a man separated, began dating, and moved home again... what, if anything, does this imply with regard to his point of view pertaining to your relationship. If I were the OW in this situation I would perhaps conclude that he did not love me. And, frankly I would be angry and hurt. After all, he was separated and involved in another relationship... and went home. This would be a major 'sign' to me that I should move on. It would certainly feel to me as if he made a choice... of free will. The fact that he was already 'free' and chose to rejoin the family...

?

August 2, 2009

Gamine its the same old thing again that many people see differently.

In certain circumstances many people believe a married person may return to their family not for love of their spouse but because of bigger issues surrounding the marriage.

Yes they chose the marriage but they did not necessarily make that choice because they love their spouse more than the other person with whom they were engaged in a relationship (in this case the AP).

I think that is the entire point of Cant Give Up's post.

I appreciate that you see it differently. This point has been debated ad nauseum on too many threads in this forum.

August 2, 2009

Gamine its the same old thing again that many people see differently.

In certain circumstances many people believe a married person may return to their family not for love of their spouse but because of bigger issues surrounding the marriage.

Yes they chose the marriage but they did not necessarily make that choice because they love their spouse more than the other person with whom they were engaged in a relationship (in this case the AP).

I think that is the entire point of Cant Give Up's post.

I appreciate that you see it differently. This point has been debated ad nauseum on too many threads in this forum.

I don't necessarily 'see it differently'. However, when putting myself in her shoes I know with certainty that if I were dating a guy who was separated (as well as myself), if I moved on to end the marriage and he did not... for whatever his reason for returning to his wife and family... it would absolutely spell the end of the relationship. Notice I haven't made any assumptions or challenged the reasons for his return...

If he were already separated he was already out of the house and made the move. To pack up his things, return home and work on the marriage while involved in a 'new relationship', it would mean to me that it was a done deal and I'd move on. We can love many people in our lifetimes. I'd move on and find someone who was in a place whereby he could reciprocate and frankly, I'd be beyond this guy's reach.

August 2, 2009

I agree with Gamine. He was already separated, and had found new love in Can'tGiveUp who was also separated.

I can't say that I would continue to ending my marriage and stay with him while he goes back to his. It doesn't make much sense for me to get divorced and him to stay married, and me to continue seeing him.

Like Gamine, I'm not saying anything of his reasons for going back. Just that the fact that he went back when we were both already separated means I need to move on, IMO.

August 2, 2009

I was wondering if I could ask you a question. No disrespect intended, however I am sincerely interested in understanding this dynamic.

You indicate that the two of you were separated when you began dating and that you have moved on to ending the marriage. At the same time he moved back home to work on his marriage.

If a man separated, began dating, and moved home again... what, if anything, does this imply with regard to his point of view pertaining to your relationship. If I were the OW in this situation I would perhaps conclude that he did not love me. And, frankly I would be angry and hurt. After all, he was separated and involved in another relationship... and went home. This would be a major 'sign' to me that I should move on. It would certainly feel to me as if he made a choice... of free will. The fact that he was already 'free' and chose to rejoin the family...

?

I agree with Gamine. He was already separated, and had found new love in Can'tGiveUp who was also separated.

I can't say that I would continue to ending my marriage and stay with him while he goes back to his. It doesn't make much sense for me to get divorced and him to stay married, and me to continue seeing him.

Like Gamine, I'm not saying anything of his reasons for going back. Just that the fact that he went back when we were both already separated means I need to move on, IMO.

JJ's assumption was correct. He didn't move back necessarily because of love for his spouse. And as I said in my other post, he was not honest about his feelings for me. We had not declared any love for each other at that point. We were dating and just about at the stage where I would have let my kids know.

We did not stay together at this point. When he went back to reconcile we began what was about a year and half of NC...or at least very little contact. And I was separated before there was any interaction with him, so there was no consideration of not continuing with my divorce. In that time I dated others and continued my life. I had no expectations during this period that we would ever be together again. We were done when he moved back.

We have had several periods of NC. That first one was the longest. The last was about 6 months. Each time we end it, the reasons usually have to do with children. Not once has it been for love of his spouse. I'm sorry if that sounds bad, but I actually called him on that when he initially went back. I would have felt better about it if he had said "I love her and I need to make it work." Instead, it was "I have to try and keep my family together."

I have very strong views about not staying in a bad situation for the sake of the kids. And I think the happiness of the parents is a direct influence on the happiness of the children and the environment of the home. He had equally strong views on the two parent home life. As well, he wanted to be able to tell his kids, honestly, that he'd done everything he could to keep the family intact.

He now seems capable of saying "I did every thing in my power to make my M work and keep my family together, but it wasn't enough." Of course, time will tell if he can leave. But this is the very first time he has said that that is his plan.

August 4, 2009

JJ's assumption was correct. He didn't move back necessarily because of love for his spouse. And as I said in my other post, he was not honest about his feelings for me. We had not declared any love for each other at that point. We were dating and just about at the stage where I would have let my kids know.

We did not stay together at this point. When he went back to reconcile we began what was about a year and half of NC...or at least very little contact. And I was separated before there was any interaction with him, so there was no consideration of not continuing with my divorce. In that time I dated others and continued my life. I had no expectations during this period that we would ever be together again. We were done when he moved back.

We have had several periods of NC. That first one was the longest. The last was about 6 months. Each time we end it, the reasons usually have to do with children. Not once has it been for love of his spouse. I'm sorry if that sounds bad, but I actually called him on that when he initially went back. I would have felt better about it if he had said "I love her and I need to make it work." Instead, it was "I have to try and keep my family together."

I have very strong views about not staying in a bad situation for the sake of the kids. And I think the happiness of the parents is a direct influence on the happiness of the children and the environment of the home. He had equally strong views on the two parent home life. As well, he wanted to be able to tell his kids, honestly, that he'd done everything he could to keep the family intact.

He now seems capable of saying "I did every thing in my power to make my M work and keep my family together, but it wasn't enough." Of course, time will tell if he can leave. But this is the very first time he has said that that is his plan.

I understand what you are saying. When he first went back, you two were NC for several months, so it doesn't really have much to do then with a continuing affair. But you had limited contact, so you kept your emotional connection alive which qualifies as an EA.

Again, I am not trying to make the argument that he loves his W and that's why he went back. I can imagine that he doesn't but his beliefs about a two parent home are stronger than any love he has left for his marriage. I just get stuck on his telling you that he's there for the kids. If the kids managed to get him to go back the first time, they will be able to do so practically each time he tries to leave.

He can come to the conclusion that his desire for a two parent home is greater than even his love for you as well. A crisis involving the kids can come out of the blue and keep pushing your love and relationship to the shelf. Or, no crisis, but someone praising him about his lovely family, could have the same result - him staying where he says he doesn't want to be.

August 4, 2009

He can come to the conclusion that his desire for a two parent home is greater than even his love for you as well. A crisis involving the kids can come out of the blue and keep pushing your love and relationship to the shelf.

I just learned this the hard way. A value as deeply ingrained as the belief in a two-parent household (or a only-in-death-do-you-part M) is not one you can hope to overcome. He may try to leave anyway out of his desire to be with you, but without a lot of serious therapy, he will probably fail and go right back home out of duty.

August 4, 2009

I just learned this the hard way. A value as deeply ingrained as the belief in a two-parent household (or a only-in-death-do-you-part M) is not one you can hope to overcome. He may try to leave anyway out of his desire to be with you, but without a lot of serious therapy, he will probably fail and go right back home out of duty.

I think this is something that the OW need to stop saying.

It's just like how BS's talk crap about the OW when her H comes back. It's to make the hurt "feel" better.

It doesn't matter WHY the MM stays in the M.

The point is, he stays married.

The longer everyone accepts excuses, the longer the A continues.

GEL

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What is the lowest thing the MM/MW/OW/OM did to keep the A going?

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