Milkflavor123 Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 :bunny:This is not a question to be asking people who have jealousy problems or people who feel strongly about being in a commited relationship.... I am in a commited relationship. I am commited to him, and he is commited to me. We are absolutely in love. We began bringing toys and lubes and outfits into the bedroom. Our sex life is quite awesome. Our love life is quite awesome as well. He is my bestfriend and I share everything with him. We do everything together and very seldomly fight. I have always been a person with a very high sex drive. I like having sex all the time. I have left relationships before because I was curious about sex with other men/ women. I was curious about what else was out there. When would I find someone who would have the same curiosty as myself. Then I found my husband. I watch lesbian porn and fantasize about being with a man and a women at the same time. I definitly know my husband feels the same way. My husband has had sex with another man before when he was younger- and I have always wanted to see him do it again. We play with toys on eachother. We love doing double penetration. Now, here I am wanting to join the swinging world. I want to see my husband with a man and a women. He would love seeing me with a girl, (not so much another guy, but who knows where we would venture off to if we joined a swingers club) but Im not sure what male would not enojoy seeing that. So here is the dilema, with all this talk- I get even more excited, but I hear of it ruining relationships. Would this craziness that I fantasize and wish to try out be a bad thing. Anyone ever tried this before.
sxyNYCcpl Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 You won't find many swingers here, though myself and my lovely bride are. I'm curious to see where this thread ends up going. Based on your statements, I'd say you guys are good candidates for dipping your toes in the water (or maybe even just jumping into the pool), if you are interested PM me and I'll send you a link to a place you can ask that question to a bunch of actual swingers...
Mr. Lucky Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 I am in a commited relationship. I am commited to him, and he is commited to me. We are absolutely in love. We began bringing toys and lubes and outfits into the bedroom. Our sex life is quite awesome. Our love life is quite awesome as well. He is my bestfriend and I share everything with him. We do everything together and very seldomly fight. I'm just curious, assuming your H can keep up with your libido, what you think you're missing now that you'd find outside your marriage ??? Mr. Lucky
angie2443 Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 I'm just curious, assuming your H can keep up with your libido, what you think you're missing now that you'd find outside your marriage ??? Mr. Lucky Variety I would guess. What else would there be?
Thornton Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 Swinging is not something I'd want to do, since I feel that fidelity is one of the most important aspects of a relationship. I'd also be worried about diseases; I'd be scared to have sex with different people who I didn't know well, particularly if they were other swingers who had likely been having sex with numerous other people. However, my concerns don't necessarily apply to you - if you feel that you genuinely want to do it and it won't detract from your relationship then do it. It isn't right for everyone, but it may be right for you and your relationship. Just be aware that once it's done you can't take it back - be 100% sure that you want the reality instead of the fantasy, and be clear on what the reality actually entails (this includes being aware of the risks too).
carhill Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 I'd suggest all respondents read the OP's backstory. I have no strong opinion about swinging but would counsel the OP to reconsider that decision for right now. Give your 'committed relationship' another year and then re-visit. You're young and your clitoris isn't going to die tomorrow.
Trialbyfire Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 Milkflavor, how long have you been married and how long did you know your husband, previous to marriage?
LucreziaBorgia Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 H and I did the 'open' thing for a while. That was a few months before he moved out and we went our separate ways. The way I see it - your relationship should be 'open' in direct proportion to how willing you are to let your SO go. Real life is sticky and lots of things come up that people really don't consider when going into something like this.
Skump Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 I think Lucrezia Borgia's sig is pretty apt here: You don't need a PhD in psych to realize swinging is liable to screw up your relationship. Swinging pushes all the right buttons to totally crash your system. Every non-sham marriage requires mutual self-sacrifice, boundaries, trust, exclusivity and a certain sense of sacredness to remain healthy. Swinging has the potential to undermine your marriage in not one, but ALL of these areas - simultaneously. The sheer number of wild variables that being on the scene introduces makes confident prediction of the emotional toll impossible. Agreements "not to become jealous," or to "stop if one partner feels uncomfortable," etc. mean jack diddly. This isn't an IPO - it's an affair of the heart. Nevermind the elephant in the room: These legalistic fail-safes overlook the fact that once a partner becomes jealous or uncomfortable, permanent damage may have already been done. So, to put this in terms of pig-ethics, I'll loosely recap another post: if you don't care that much about your relationship, try swinging. If, however, a little meaningless muff diving or pole vaulting isn't worth a significant risk to your marriage, stay clear. I'd guestimate that swinging has a 50%+ chance of bringing it to a premature end.
pollswolls Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 I'd guestimate that swinging has a 50%+ chance of bringing it to a premature end. Not that all marriages only have a 50-50 chance of survival...But I do agree with this "premature end" thing. My H & I tried a "modified" version of a swinging lifestyle. Never really dove into it head first. Our "modified" worked for about a year - off & on....then the whole thing sort of freaked me out. Messed with my head. (He preferred to just have me get out there & he would 'reap' the benefits after the fact- sort of like the cuckhold lifestyle (ish) He never wanted to get out there & be with other woman:eek:) Anyway, I ended up having an affair. Hubby never gave it a second thought that I might find someone I really liked & wouldn't want to share the escapades with him anymore. Anyway.....I don't think that it's good for a marriage. A little flirty flirty here & there......is fine in my book - but that's about it.
sxyNYCcpl Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 Sigh. I love it when people who have no experience with something feel the need to advise others, as though they themselves were experts. Swinging pushes all the right buttons to totally crash your system. Every non-sham marriage requires mutual self-sacrifice, boundaries, trust, exclusivity and a certain sense of sacredness to remain healthy. Swinging has the potential to undermine your marriage in not one, but ALL of these areas - simultaneously. Really? And you know this because you were a successful swinger for years until BAM it blew up in your face, huh? Look, I've said it before, I'll say it again. Swinging ain't for everyone. But for those couples who have a solid foundation, mutual respect, and most importantly, mutual INTEREST, it can add positives to your relationship in many areas. If you are doing it to try to salvage a failing relationship, or if one spouse is eager and enthusiastic and the other is going along to get along then it's an explosion waiting to happen. But you sir are making assumptions that are not only not in evidence, they are also not true. These legalistic fail-safes overlook the fact that once a partner becomes jealous or uncomfortable, permanent damage may have already been done. Which is why most swingers, myself included, advise a baby-step approach. Go to a club. Check out the scene. For the first time, agree ahead of time that you are only going to interact with each other, or maybe not even that. Then go back home and discuss it. Was it comfortable? Exciting? Do you want to take the next step, or take a step back? One need not jump into a 40 person puppy pile the first time they venture off into the land of swinging. I'd guestimate that swinging has a 50%+ chance of bringing it to a premature end. You need a new guesstimation machine because yours is wrong. Every study that's ever been done on the topic shows that swinging couples have much lower rates of divorce than does the general public. Of all the couples we have known, we are aware of only one who split up, and that was for reasons that had nothing to do with the lifestyle. In this study, a relationship marital satisfaction scale and a sexual satisfaction scale were used to measure swingers' levels of satisfaction on both variables. The respondents reported high levels of marital and sexual satisfaction in their relationship with their partners. Prior research had yielded evidence that swingers reported being happy with their marital relationship and that swinging had strengthened their marital relationship (Bergrstand & Williams, 2000). Swingers who were satisfied with their marriages before swinging had increased their level of satisfaction after starting swinging (Bergstrand & Williams; Gould, 1999; Jenks, 1998).See http://www.ejhs.org/Volume12/Swinging2.htm for the full study. Among swingers, is there a relationship between swinging and marital happiness? Two questions on the survey – one which asked about their relationships before swinging and the other about them after swinging – are cross-tabulated in Table 15. As the data shows, 62.6% of swingers found that swinging improved their marriages/relationships, 35.6% said their relationships stayed about the same, and only 1.7% said they became less happy. Even among those who said their marriages were "Very Happy" prior to swinging nearly half (49.7%) said they became happier. Among those with the most unhappy marriages 90.4% said their relationship became happier after swinging. It appears that, at least among the sample of swingers used in this research, swinging tends to improve the perceived quality of the couples' marriages regardless of how satisfying it was before swinging.http://www.ejhs.org/volume3/swing/body.htm for the full study. Enjoy!
Skump Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 I certainly appreciate the cite - I'll definitely take a look tonight. But, as a guy with a stat background, I'll toss out a couple of potentially very serious problems social science studies like these often have: * implicit selection bias - looks like a variation on a self-selecting sample. I'll have to scrutinize it tonight, but if it's indeed that, it's a problem for the validity of the study. Potentially a huge problem. * Moreover, if they're asking current, active swingers about the effect of their activities on their relationship, that's like asking Yale admits how hard it was to get into Yale. * I don't think the study is longitudinal, but I'll have to read it more closely. If it's indeed static, again, that's a big strike against any predictive value.
sxyNYCcpl Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 * implicit selection bias - looks like a variation on a self-selecting sample. I'll have to scrutinize it tonight, but if it's indeed that, it's a problem for the validity of the study. Potentially a huge problem. Indeed, and at least one of the two that I referenced acknowledged that limitation. The challenge is how to randomly select swingers, as there isn't exactly a database available for purchase. * Moreover, if they're asking current, active swingers about the effect of their activities on their relationship, that's like asking Yale admits how hard it was to get into Yale. Well, just because they did it doesn't mean it wasn't hard, but you are right if the sample does not include ex-swingers (regardless of why they're "ex") than it might be problematic. I'll fully acknowledge that if 1000 couples try swinging, 100 love it and 900 get divorced because of it, positive responses from the 100 are meaningless. However, and this is extremely anecdotal, but we know of very, very few "ex-swingers". We tend to see the same people over and over again, and many of them have become friends outside the lifestyle as well. * I don't think the study is longitudinal, but I'll have to read it more closely. If it's indeed static, again, that's a big strike against any predictive value. I do NOT have a stat background, so I don't know what longitudinal even means, much less how it impacts the study. The reason I reference these is because my observations, though positive, are easily discountable. It's easy for me to say that swinging has a positive impact on the RIGHT relationships, but at the same time that goes so much against the conventional wisdom about sexuality that knee-jerk reactions (you'll destroy your marriage, while simultaneously getting 4 or 5 diseases, screwing up your kids life, and continuing the decline of western society!) are easy. And all available evidence, as well as my personal experience and that of my friends, says those knee-jerk reactions are wrong.
doushenka Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 However, and this is extremely anecdotal, but we know of very, very few "ex-swingers". We tend to see the same people over and over again, and many of them have become friends outside the lifestyle as well. The only ex-swingers I know are polyamorous. Granted, the plural of "anecdote" is not "data", but I'm vastly amused that they stopped swinging because they wanted to commit to more people. Sure sounds like the opposite of what most people assume, huh? -- No Longer Assuming
sxyNYCcpl Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 Interesting, and not at all what I would have expected. Are most "poly" people relationogamous? (Monogamous wouldn't apply, and I couldn't think of a better word...) I only personally know one poly couple (that I know of) and they also swing...
doushenka Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 If by that you mean "are they faithful?" -- one configuration is a closed triad and one configuration is a close-knit Z. The word you're looking for is "polyfidelitous", I think -- the choice not to have love relationships outside a certain subset.
Gamine Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 What do you get out of it? Is it that you have the benefit of having a 'home base' and the security it offers while being able to have sex with anyone else (as long as they are in the swinger set)? If your partner is your love and you are committed, why is there a desire that is not filled by them? Other than providing a different body with whom you may have sex with, what does the swinger lifestyle provide? And, why does having sex with a different body offer excitement? A body basically has the same components. ??
sxyNYCcpl Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 If your partner is your love and you are committed, why is there a desire that is not filled by them? Not sure if this was directed at me, but I'll try to answer. The myth that one person can fulfill every sexual need and desire of another causes more problems than I can count. My husband looked at porn, am I not enough? My girlfriend flirted with the waiter! My SO checked out the hottie at the game. Everyone, every single last one of us fantasizes, looks around, and daydreams. Many people are happily monogamous, others pretend to be but are not. Us swingers have decided to embrace the fact that monogamy ain't our thing. We see no value in it, no purpose. It's about sex, of course, but it's more than that as well. It's about fun, friendship, and fellowship with like minded people. As a whole I find swingers to be some of the kindest, most open people I've ever met. Do you eat the same meal for dinner every night?
Gamine Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 Not sure if this was directed at me, but I'll try to answer. The myth that one person can fulfill every sexual need and desire of another causes more problems than I can count. My husband looked at porn, am I not enough? My girlfriend flirted with the waiter! My SO checked out the hottie at the game. Everyone, every single last one of us fantasizes, looks around, and daydreams. Many people are happily monogamous, others pretend to be but are not. Us swingers have decided to embrace the fact that monogamy ain't our thing. We see no value in it, no purpose. It's about sex, of course, but it's more than that as well. It's about fun, friendship, and fellowship with like minded people. As a whole I find swingers to be some of the kindest, most open people I've ever met. Do you eat the same meal for dinner every night? Okay, so that's about the fellowship and sex with the swingers and like minded people. But what do you get out of marriage? What is a marriage like for a swinger? How do you avoid attachments? Is sex as a swinger purely a bodily function, or are there any sentiments? The reason I am asking is that I have had a very hard line attitude towards anyone engaging in this lifestyle and I suppose I am curious about the human aspects that go behind it. Do you find that swingers are people who come from primarily certain backgrounds or life experiences? The thing that sort of puzzled me in your answer was the reference to checking out different people... at a game, club, etc... However if you are in a swinger group, you aren't sleeping with that person... but have to choose amongst those participating that time... What if you simply look at them and don't find them appealing at all? I suppose I have always wondered how, why... and instead of just wondering...thought I'd ask! I appreciate your being so open.
Ariadne Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 fantasize about being with a man and a women want to see my husband with a man and a women Would this craziness that I fantasize and wish to try out be a bad thing. Anyone ever tried this before. It's woman. No, I never tried that. But my take is that: Our sex life is quite awesome. Our love life is quite awesome as well. Is not such, if you are thinking of those things.
sxyNYCcpl Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 But what do you get out of marriage? What is a marriage like for a swinger? For us, and for just about everyone that I know it's surprisingly normal. We have jobs, we have kids, we have lives. Being a swinger isn't a 24x7 thing, when we're partying and playing then we're partying and playing. When we're not, our life looks pretty much like yours. How do you avoid attachments? Good question, not sure I have a good answer because we just do. Perhaps it's because everyone involved shares the same expectation, that it's a physical pleasure that will be shared, and when it's done everyone is going home with the one they came with. We simply do not equate sex with love. Love is difficult without sex, but sex without love? Easy. Is sex as a swinger purely a bodily function, or are there any sentiments? If by "sentiments" you mean emotions, the answer is sometimes it's both. I have had sex with people whose name I didn't forget, I just never knew in the first place and likely would not even recognize today. Flip side, we've garnered friendships that will likely last for life. The reason I am asking is that I have had a very hard line attitude towards anyone engaging in this lifestyle and I suppose I am curious about the human aspects that go behind it. Well, I would opine that your hard line is you projecting your emotions and feelings onto other people. Which is to say you assume that your reaction to being somehow put in that environment (say for example your SO suggested it out of the blue) is, and should be, the same reaction as most "normal" people. Different strokes, no pun intended... Do you find that swingers are people who come from primarily certain backgrounds or life experiences? Doesn't seem that way, quite diverse. I've known rich, poor, and in the middle. Cops, teachers, politicians, salespeople, engineers, you name it. I don't know if it's common throughout the lifestyle, or merely in my circle of friends, but a good number of us seem to be on our second marriages which are wonderful, compared to the miserable firsts. The thing that sort of puzzled me in your answer was the reference to checking out different people... at a game, club, etc... However if you are in a swinger group, you aren't sleeping with that person... but have to choose amongst those participating that time... What if you simply look at them and don't find them appealing at all? My example of checking out other people was to point out that even happily monogamous people do not get 100% of their sexual energy or fulfillment from only their spouse. If you're not sexually attracted to someone, you don't have sex with them, that's simple. Or did I misunderstand the question? The idea that all swingers are 300 lbs and 65 years old is a myth. Of course, the idea that everyone is a 21 year old hardbody is also a myth.
whimsical_memory Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 If you'd like to learn more about the lifestyle, here is a site that my ex and I used. http://www.swinglifestyle.com/ The people on there are extremely nice, and for the most part very willing to talk to people about the lifestyle.
BadKittyNo Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 " Interesting, and not at all what I would have expected. Are most "poly" people relationogamous? (Monogamous wouldn't apply, and I couldn't think of a better word...) " Some are, some aren't. We are, because it just works best for us. The three of us decided that casual partners just aren't something we're interested in. If any of us ever wanted to bring somebody else into the "family", it would only be after lengthy and careful consideration to make sure that the person would be a good match personality and ethics/values wise, so that they add to the relationship instead of take from it.
allina Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 I think it can get tricky/complicated for most couples but if it works for you I see nothing wrong with it. I am certain that you can be committed, in love, happy and take part in the life style.
chrissylee Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 The myth that one person can fulfill every sexual need and desire of another causes more problems than I can count. My husband looked at porn, am I not enough? My girlfriend flirted with the waiter! My SO checked out the hottie at the game. Everyone, every single last one of us fantasizes, looks around, and daydreams. Many people are happily monogamous, others pretend to be but are not. Us swingers have decided to embrace the fact that monogamy ain't our thing. We see no value in it, no purpose. Do you eat the same meal for dinner every night? I really don't fantasize about other people. I do notice attractive people but I don't go home and pretend my boyfriend is them the next time we have sex. I just don't see a point in it. I know you probably don't believe me and that is fine. I really have no desire to be with or think about being with anyone but my SO.
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