butcher's hook Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 It's funny, butcher's hook, because I really have always felt this way too. Patience and just being a lady. But lately I've been wondering if maybe all that is just gender construction. I definitely am NOT desperate. I guess I was just thinking about being more experimental. I'm not really on the market for anything. So, my perspective on the shole thing is rather confused I guess! But thanks for your advice and support! I appreciate it. I think what you described today is FANTASTIC!! Tell me you aren't having fun being flirty and girly? It's LOADS of fun. I dunno I love it, it makes me feel so alive. It's just sexy to feel like this. Before I met my current guy, I had been in a slump for a while I wanted nothing to do with any guy. The thought of any guy out there just did nothing for me, I was still getting over my ex and decided I need a good time out from dating and men in general. But I know me, when I was back to my self again and I was ready to hit the pavement I came around just like you are describing. I slowly started to put my flirty moves into practice again next thing you know I started getting out on more dates and I was meeting guys far more often. It's almost like when you are do this and you start to date more your mojo comes back I swear to god it's like magic, you go from just being one in the crowd to being noticed again. It's all in the vibes you put out. I say keep up what you are doing sooner or later the ball gets rolling. In the least you'll have a blast doing so. As for me I now I have to tone it down because I am meeting guys even when I am out with my friends and I can't be anymore...
butcher's hook Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 You mean like allowing men to pick you up late at night on the street Sure why not? A man can try to pick you up anywhere, I don't set limits. Why would I? I respect a guy who has enough guts to step up to me in not so obvious places. But if you think your desperate suggestion to buy men drinks is a MUCH better suggestion. If you need to buy men drinks to get their attention, then you know why...who am I to question your necessities. Right?
tami-chan Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 Sure why not? A man can try to pick you up anywhere, I don't set limits. Why would I? I respect a guy who has enough guts to step up to me in not so obvious places. But if you think your desperate suggestion to buy men drinks is a MUCH better suggestion. If you need to buy men drinks to get their attention, then you know why...who am I to question your necessities. Right? Sorry to disappoint you but I don't drink and would not know what to order to buy anybody any drink. Plus, I have never been to any bar or restaurant alone...
tami-chan Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 I can tell. You really should get out more. Stop talking nonsense then if you have never even set foot in a bar, you haven't a clue what it means when someone sends you a drink so how could you even have an opinion of what it means universally? Touche! Just because I am always with someone does not mean some men are not ballsy enough to send me drinks....I just refuse them because I do not drink...and no, I do not think they want to sleep with me...I just think they think I am interesting/attractive. It happens.. Never set foot in a bar? Are you kidding me...where did you get that idea? I have been to bars and restaurants in several continents..just never alone. See? you missed the point already and added YOUR nonsense. How about you learn to read and comprehend?
butcher's hook Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 Touche! Just because I am always with someone does not mean some men are not ballsy enough to send me drinks....I just refuse them because I do not drink...and no, I do not think they want to sleep with me...I just think they think I am interesting/attractive. It happens.. Well I am very happy you think someone does. And what does that mean "you are always with someone" are you afraid to leave the house alone? How about you learn to read and comprehend? How about I just tune you out instead?
tami-chan Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 How about I just tune you out instead? haha...you have to, I guess...it can't be fun ( for you) when you can't really comprehend your own language :lmao:!
butcher's hook Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 haha...you have to, I guess...it can't be fun ( for you) when you can't really comprehend your own language :lmao:! English please.
Curious-One Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 Wow! My thread has turned out to be quite interesting. Thanks to everyone who has posted comments. They are all helpful. Well, some are confusing, I must admit. But here's my update. I've tried a few different things to experiment. 1. I was in a cafe. I was dressed nicely, reading and writing in my journal. A very good looking man walked in. I smiled and caught his eye. He sat a few tables away from me. I kept trying to make eye contact, but no luck. I even walked by him to get the newspaper from a different table. Caught his eye again. BUT NOTHING. He made no move. Now I realize he could have been married (no ring though) or together with someone. But still. No response. 2. Out last night, also wearing a cute dress and heels. I sat at the bar for 15 minutes by myself while waiting for a friend. Smiled at a few cute guys who smiled back. Nothing. Later that night when my friend and I were out on the street I saw a cute guy walking by. I was feeling rather bold after 2 margaritas and said "Hi, how is your night going, handsome?" Got a response there. He smiled. He was definitely in shock. We ended up talking for a bit. He offered to buy me a drink somewhere. I declined. But he asked for my number. SO--thoughts??? responses? I get the impression that a lot of guys are actually not as courageous as we ladies might hope or expect--no offense guys. I mean, I feel bad for y'all. someone posted in another thread that how is a guy supposed to know if the girl is really interested or just playing games with you? I hate playing games with people. Can't help it. That's why I posted this thread initially. I would rather just be a straight shooter. Many posters here seem to disagree though, believing men should make all the first moves. So I'm still confused. But will continue to try out some other methods. Keep postin'! You see that is exactly what i thought was going to happen. I would have to say that 70-80% of the guys out there will not approach a girl just because she looks at him and smiles. This is coming from a guy that has talked so much about this subject with his male friends.. We talk about approaching girls alot and the signs they give out etc mainly because i am very interested in this kind of staff and that is why i am on this forum. There are coupla reasons why smiling and eye contact will not work most of the time. First and MAIN REASON WHY EYE CONTACT AND A SMILE DOESNT WORK IS because many girls like butchers hook and Ruby slippers flirt for fun! I am not saying there is anything wrong with that but many many girls do it and it messes with guys heads. You see at the beginning a guy will think that girls that do this is interested and will aproach but he will get rejected. He might try it again and it will happen again because there is so many girls doing it for fun. See a guy might approach once twice tree times and get rejected and will realize that this is not a definite sign. Its like a child wanting to touch a stove until the child gets burned than the child doesnt even want to get near it. Lets face it , NOBODY likes to get rejected and 80% of the guys out there will only approach the girl if they are sure they will not get rejected. The other 20% of the guys are the Alpha males that dont care if they get rejected and approach 4-5 girls a day without a care. These are also the guys that are considered "playas" because they usually have more than one gf at a time since they are so good at approaching women. REASON 2 ... Most guys (aproximetely 80%) are AFRAID of approaching women and a smile and eye contact is never a 100% sure sign that the women is interested so rather than face rejection they will not approach. What goest through a guys head when he sees a girl smiling and eye contact... Is she looking/smiling at me ? Do i have something on my face? Is there someone behind me? Nah she cant be smiling at me its probobly my friend sitting next to me?. REASON 3.... If you are not a super hot girl a guy is not likely to try and approach you if you give eye contact and smile. You see most people like going after big catches and sometimes even when the risk is high that you will fail they will still do it. For example a fisherman might risk his life to go catch crabs in the ocean because if he succeds pay off is big as crab gives him lot of money. However most fisherman will not risk their life for sardines because they dont get cost that much. Same thing with guys.. if you are an average girl a guy will not risk rejection for an average girl even thoug he might give her a chance and go out with her. If a guy gets rejected by a super hot girl its easy to say , man she was too good for me or she probobly did have a boyfriend. If a guy gets rejected by an ugly/average girl his confidence/pride will be crushed for 2 reasons. -He got rejected by an average girl and is probobly thinking "I cant even get her". - Chances of her lying that she has a bf are bigger because she is not super hot. To summerize i would say that eye contact and smile will only work on guys that find you extremely attractive and worth the risk of rejection. I would say that if you want to be sure that the guy knows you are into him say something like the OP did. IF you do that chances are that the guy will ask you for your number or make a move given that he doesnt have a girlfriend and actually wants a relationship. Me personally if i am single i will give a descant looking girl a chance if she gives me a definite sign that she is interested in me.. Will i go out of my way to get with a descant looking girl?... heck no. I hope this makes sense.
butcher's hook Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 To summarize i would say that eye contact and smile will only work on guys that find you extremely attractive and worth the risk of rejection. I would say that if you want to be sure that the guy knows you are into him say something like the OP did. IF you do that chances are that the guy will ask you for your number or make a move given that he doesn't have a girlfriend and actually wants a relationship. BINGO!!! Thank you that was a perfect example of what I have been talking about you summed it up perfectly right there. That is precisely the reason why I feel it's important not to be the pursuer with a guy. I want a guy approaching me who is fully convinced he likes what he sees all on his own. If the woman makes the first move she is telling him "look at me I am good enough for you, you should go for me even though you didn't really notice me, HERE I am!" If a guy is stepping up to me he either likes me on his own or he does not. I ain't "convincing him" of crap! If I shoot him a look and play flirty, that is enough to show him I find him attractive. If he can't muster up the cojones to step to me then he is just not that into me or simply too shy for me then a guy who is less shy will come up to me. That's just the way it goes. Either way cest la vie. Let some other girl convince him to like her. I am not that girl, sorry! REASON 2 ... Most guys (approximately 80%) are AFRAID of approaching women and a smile and eye contact is never a 100% sure sign that the women is interested so rather than face rejection they will not approach. What goest through a guys head when he sees a girl smiling and eye contact... Is she looking/smiling at me ? Do i have something on my face? Is there someone behind me? Nah she cant be smiling at me its probably my friend sitting next to me And that is a GROSS overstatement. I get approached frequently enough, and I am not SUPER hot or doing anything out of the ordinary. Guys are not THAT shy actually, not at all. Shoot about a month ago I got approached at the super marked by one of the guys that worked in produce he made it a point to want to help me when I clearly did not need help, he insisted on helping me find what I was looking for and I just played along to stroke his ego, turned out he wanted to keep chatting me up I just cut him loose. He must have been all of 25. TRUST me guys are NOT shy. Not in the least when they see someone they want to pursue. You should answer Norajane's question, that was a very interesting question she gave you regarding the girl in your class.
Curious-One Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 Norajane to answer your question about the girl that started talking to me, nothing really happend other than me getting her AOL MSGR sn. There was a time when i first started college where i worked full time job and took like 4-5 classes a semester. I had no time for anything, not even my close friends. At one point i went 3months without having a single day off. At that time i would say i was immature. I would go after girls without having any intention on dating them or following up with them after getting the number. I was kind of like butchers hook and Ruby slippers... I loved to flirt with girls. I felt great when i would get a girls number , it made me feel good about my self. I felt like i still got it after getting the number even though i knew i can never be in a relationship at that time ... In one class that semester i got like 5-6 numbers but i never called those girls to hang out or to study . Some of them even tried to set up a time where we could study but i could never do it. I never had the time to do it but i dont think they beleived me when i told them. By the end of the semester they would not even want to talk to me. It took a while for me to realize that i was actually hurting these girls because i was playing games with them. I stopped flirting and asking for numbers and i just tried to be as friendly as possible. Now i am going back to school and i will only approach girls that i actually plan on calling. That girl was great and if i saw her i would definitely approach her again. She had better personality than most of the hot girls that i was trying to get including the one that was sitting next to me. At no time did i think she was desperate for coming and talking to me. I say if you think the guy is hot and you want him to ask you for your number go up to him and say something and start a conversation. If you dont you risk not seeing him again because he might be shy, afraid to approach, or might not even see you because hes focused on that girl with short skirt on.
butcher's hook Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 Wanted to add: Furthermore, you know what kind of guys get rejected all the time when they try to approach women? it is more than likely the type of men who don't look for any signs. It is the type of guys that go in for the "cold call" they just see a woman that they find appealing and without even as much as making eye contact with them first they go in for the kill and then wonder why they get rejected. That's happend to me too, I am totally minding my own business and a guy out of nowhere tries to chat me up. Ahh hello, if there is absolutely no vibe on my part why are you even trying to pick me up? Dont' be surprised if I reject you if I gave you no invitation to talk to me at all, even less to try to pick me up. If you look for the sings there is less chance you will get rejected. The problem is some of you shy guys are just clueless when it comes to the signs. You would do well in learning female body language and half of your fears are GONE.
butcher's hook Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 Curious-one that's good that you answered Norajane's question honestly. Sounds to me after all that explanation the bottom line is "you weren't all that into her" And that's understandable women who desperately approach men are not all that desirable. Sure they are nice enough and they are "great women" but they are not the desirable ones. If she were really desirable you'd be dating her by now, in the least you would have been chatting with her and asking her out. None of that happened. That's my point. I think your pointers of women approaching men ideally is for the hotties, in other words the types of women you do desire. And the truth of the matter is hotties just don't approach guys first, they simply don't have to.
Curious-One Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 BINGO!!! Thank you that was a perfect example of what I have been talking about you summed it up perfectly right there. That is precisely the reason why I feel it's important not to be the pursuer with a guy. I want a guy approaching me who is fully convinced he likes what he sees all on his own. If the woman makes the first move she is telling him "look at me I am good enough for you, you should go for me even though you didn't really notice me, HERE I am!" If a guy is stepping up to me he either likes me on his own or he does not. I ain't "convincing him" of crap! If I shoot him a look and play flirty, that is enough to show him I find him attractive. If he can't muster up the cojones to step to me then he is just not that into me or simply too shy for me then a guy who is less shy will come up to me. That's just the way it goes. Either way cest la vie. Let some other girl convince him to like her. I am not that girl, sorry! And that is a GROSS overstatement. I get approached frequently enough, and I am not SUPER hot or doing anything out of the ordinary. Guys are not THAT shy actually, not at all. Shoot about a month ago I got approached at the super marked by one of the guys that worked in produce he made it a point to want to help me when I clearly did not need help, he insisted on helping me find what I was looking for and I just played along to stroke his ego, turned out he wanted to keep chatting me up I just cut him loose. He must have been all of 25. TRUST me guys are NOT shy. Not in the least when they see someone they want to pursue. You should answer Norajane's question, that was a very interesting question she gave you regarding the girl in your class. Trust me when i tell you that there are so many great guys out there that are really afraid of approaching women. I have plenty of friends that are awesome fun to be around and many of them are good looking (no homo) but they are afraid to talk to women. For that reason they are either single or stuck with girls that treat them like crap. Many guys simply dont know how to talk to girls and if and when they do talk to women they act like their friend and get put into friendzone. I also have friends that do drugs have scars overweight but could care less if they get rejected. Guess what , they pull some super hot girls and cheat on them and treat them like crap. You might get approached alot, but trust me. Look around you and compare how many guys approach you to how many guys actually see you. you say you got approached at supermarket and thats fine but how many guys see you at supermarket and dont say anything. So big question here is ... are you gonna miss out on those great guy just because they are afraid of rejection...
Curious-One Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 Curious-one that's good that you answered Norajane's question honestly. Sounds to me after all that explanation the bottom line is "you weren't all that into her" And that's understandable women who desperately approach men are not all that desirable. Sure they are nice enough and they are "great women" but they are not the desirable ones. If she were really desirable you'd be dating her by now, in the least you would have been chatting with her and asking her out. None of that happened. That's my point. I think your pointers of women approaching men ideally is for the hotties, in other words the types of women you do desire. And the truth of the matter is hotties just don't approach guys first, they simply don't have to. I dont think you are reading what i am saying right... I got numbers from hot girls but i never dated them either... If i had to choose i would have dated that girl rather than the Hot girl next to me because she truly had a great personality. She was friendly and had great confidence which you should know is very sexy. On top of that she knew how to hold a conversation where i always had to start talking about something with the HOT girl. You are right super hot girls ARE going to be approached , they dont have to go up to guys and chat them up but lets face it. How many girls out there are SUPER hot that they will stand out in a crowed . What happens if you are an average looking girl. You think that HOT guy will rather come approach the average girl rather than go for the Hot girl in the bar.
butcher's hook Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 Trust me when i tell you that there are so many great guys out there that are really afraid of approaching women. I have plenty of friends that are awesome fun to be around and many of them are good looking (no homo) but they are afraid to talk to women. For that reason they are either single or stuck with girls that treat them like crap. Many guys simply dont know how to talk to girls and if and when they do talk to women they act like their friend and get put into friendzone. I also have friends that do drugs have scars overweight but could care less if they get rejected. Guess what , they pull some super hot girls and cheat on them and treat them like crap. I understand that C I am no denying it's not hard and that a lot of guys do feel paralized by this fear of rejection. I know that I get that. I am on your side, don't get me wrong I do get it. The thing is though that for every guy that is paralized by fear there is always another guy who isn't you see, there is a guy who managed to overcome his irrational fears and he just goes out there and reads the female signals and just goes for it. And if it doesn't pan out he brushes it off. Sure it was awkward at first and it felt like absolute torture but after a while it became less threatening and before he knew it he was out there doing it more and more and when rejection happend if it did, it didn't even feel like rejection anymore. I am super out going k? BUT I used to have a hate of public speaking, it was not even something conscious. I used to sit infront of a room of my colleagues or a group I don't know and just clam up and the more I would try to get it together the more my voice would crack and I felt myself slipping and it was just a downward spiral of shame and being out of control. I couldn't even conduct intreviews my voice would crack and I would start to shake it was so ODD. I had to get a grip on this because it was making me seem really unprofessional it was a HUGE burden I had to overcome and it simply did not MAKE SENSE with how my overall personality is. Well certain turn of events in my life prompted me to do a lot of public speaking and after a while it became less and less frightening for me to the point that I no longer even think when I speak infront of a group, I have completely 100% overcome whatever it was that was paralizing me. It's not even a thought, I just do it like breathing. You might get approached alot, but trust me. Look around you and compare how many guys approach you to how many guys actually see you. you say you got approached at supermarket and thats fine but how many guys see you at supermarket and dont say anything. So big question here is ... are you gonna miss out on those great guy just because they are afraid of rejection... I don't feel I am missing out though because sooner or later that special guy does come along who does approache me. So call me spoiled but history tells me that it's just a matter of time. I guess it is easier for me to say because I have experience and patterns of seeing how things pan out. It's less easy for someone who is just starting out the dating game, I do appreciate that Curious! More often than not women do think more along the lines of what I am explaining the majority I would even dare say, it's the very minority of women that do all the approaching so it's best for young guys to adapt to that rather than expect it to be the other way around, because other guys are adapting to that and they are getting what they want. They are getting maybe even better than they deserve simply because they had the guts to approach a girl most guys wouldn't. See what I mean?
butcher's hook Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 You are right super hot girls ARE going to be approached , they dont have to go up to guys and chat them up but lets face it. How many girls out there are SUPER hot that they will stand out in a crowed . What happens if you are an average looking girl. You think that HOT guy will rather come approach the average girl rather than go for the Hot girl in the bar. You know what? Forget about "super hot" it's not really about being super hot, and I mean that all around (guys and girls) it's SO not about that. I would rather be approached buy a cool guy who is confident and charming and just fun to be around any day over just a "super hot" guy who takes himself too seriously. I mean sure if he is super hot and fun and charming well bring it on, who am I to stop him! :laugh: But sersiously, I am not super hot but I do know I will be approached, that's the thing a girl who knows she will be approached will not do the pursuing. It's just that simple. For every 1 guy that does not want to pursue there are 3 who will. That's the reality.
Author frustrated&sad Posted August 3, 2009 Author Posted August 3, 2009 This is all so great. I love hearing both sides from the ladies and guys. By the way, out of sheer curiosity, have any of you men read THe Game? I heard about this book recently and am fascinated by it. If you've read it and tried something from it, does it work? It seems like such a bizarre book. GReat posts all!
Author frustrated&sad Posted August 3, 2009 Author Posted August 3, 2009 You know what? Forget about "super hot" it's not really about being super hot, and I mean that all around (guys and girls) it's SO not about that. I would rather be approached buy a cool guy who is confident and charming and just fun to be around any day over just a "super hot" guy who takes himself too seriously. I mean sure if he is super hot and fun and charming well bring it on, who am I to stop him! :laugh: But sersiously, I am not super hot but I do know I will be approached, that's the thing a girl who knows she will be approached will not do the pursuing. It's just that simple. For every 1 guy that does not want to pursue there are 3 who will. That's the reality. Yeah--what is super hot anyway? It's all in the eye of the beholder! My opinion of what a very attractive woman is would no doubt be somewhat different from othre women and most men. I've no idea if I'm hot, cute, average, whatever. Frankly, it doesn't matter. So I'm totally with BH on this one.
caramel c Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 I am in full agreement with Butcher's Hook on everything so far. To add a new perspective on things, I know that the kind of guy I wish to be with will have no problem approaching me. He won't be afraid of rejection or be intimidated, insecure, or shy. That kind of guy doesn't interest me. I'm sure there are plenty of really great guys that are those things I mentioned, and that's fine for somebody else, but not for me. By not approaching men and being the first one to show interest, I have already weeded out the ones I won't be interested in, if that makes any sense. And yes, I am completely sure of this. I am not worried about any one man falling through the cracks just because I didn't go over to him and introduce myself. I enjoy being pursued too much to mess with it. Why ruin a good thing?
Jersey Shortie Posted August 5, 2009 Posted August 5, 2009 I have a friend who is from England. She alway says the men in America are boring because they don't flirt or make attempts to talk to you. She said the me in England are much more open and carefree when it comes to flirting. I've never been to England but I can see the truth in this.
Ruby Slippers Posted August 6, 2009 Posted August 6, 2009 I have a friend who is from England. She alway says the men in America are boring because they don't flirt or make attempts to talk to you. She said the me in England are much more open and carefree when it comes to flirting. I've never been to England but I can see the truth in this. I found this to be true in the two European countries in which I lived as well. Granted, I was the "exotic" American, but I experienced flirtation at least 5 times a day, usually just for the fun of it. And the men were SEXY!!! It really gives your day a kick.
2sure Posted August 6, 2009 Posted August 6, 2009 Flirting in Europe is much more open and expected. From everyone. It doesnt get the same response in the states. In the US, if a cab driver smiles at you - he is leering. If a man walks up to you and starts chatting on the street, you look for a cop. Flirting there just isnt considered as the offense some people here seem to think of it as. Strangers talk to each other. I honestly think they feel safer in general because there is gun control there! lol.
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