Jilly Bean Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 Hey Snark- I have a purely intellectual question for you. AKA mental masturbation. While I agree with you that from a statistical perspective, *most* men would have a problem with their woman being on display naked on the internet (or elsewhere), I am curious what you would ascribe that to? I have an opinion, but would prefer to hear yours (and any others who may wish to jump in) before I go there. I think it's because when you really care about someone, then you'd like to think that some parts of your relationship are sacred and private. This includes others seeing you naked. I have sooo been there. I have nude modeled, but not for public websites, nor strangers. Once was for a friend who is an artist and sketched me in charcoal, and the other was for a nude calendar I did for a BF as a gift. The guy I did the calendar for, well, I still own it. lol. He was pretty pissed that I was naked in front of another man, even though it was for a gift. He didn't get it, and didn't appreciate it. He considered it "cheating" of sorts. We had a fight over it, and three years later, I still own the calendar.
hoping2heal Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 Wow, I can't believe the number of people who think it's okay for your SO to get decide, on your behalf, what hobbies are or are not acceptable in your world. Sexy, would you be perfectly fine with your gf/fiance/wife taking her clothes off (not for money) and showing her nude body to the world? You would be 100 percent fine with this? Relationships require compromise, of course, but that is not compromise, that is him dictating to you that you change something that is apparently quite important to you, and that he was fully aware of long before you even became a couple, because he said so. This is almost like him dictating to her it would not be okay to have sex with other men, emotional (non physical) affairs, or any other activity that would share an intimate part of her body or mind with everyone and their mother, that SHOULD be reserved for him.
Author Wakely Posted July 29, 2009 Author Posted July 29, 2009 I can see what everyone's saying about communicating with my bf about this. However, I am (again) pretty irked that he KNEW about this BEFORE the beginning, he LIKES telling his friends what I do, and yeah, he's making snotty comments, but if he has a problem, he should tell me about it, not make me guess or bring it up. AND AGAIN, I'm giving up a lot for him already. I also don't appreciate how some people seem judgmental about what I do. Maybe I'm just feeling sensitive because of my boyfriend. It's fine to offer suggestions about why my boyfriend might not be OK with it, but don't judge me for posing nude. I think if anyone saw work from the photographers I've worked with, you'd understand it really is art. It's not something you might find in a Playboy.
Stark Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 Hey Snark- I have a purely intellectual question for you. AKA mental masturbation. While I agree with you that from a statistical perspective, *most* men would have a problem with their woman being on display naked on the internet (or elsewhere), I am curious what you would ascribe that to? I have an opinion, but would prefer to hear yours (and any others who may wish to jump in) before I go there. First I would say, being naked is an intimate thing you really only share with your partner. A part of that intimacy goes away if they start posing naked. Second off, it's a woman that requires attention from other guys, and thats a huge turn off. The woman I'm with should be content with the attention she gets from me, if she's seeking it elsewhere then it puts an unecessary strain on a relationship.
Jilly Bean Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 However, I am (again) pretty irked that he KNEW about this BEFORE the beginning, he LIKES telling his friends what I do, and yeah, he's making snotty comments Yes, but that was before he really fell for you, so I'm sure he loved telling his friends about his hot GF who models in the nude. Now that he's in love, it's different. I remember my ex when we first met, telling all his friends about how I used to gargle his cum. He thought it was fabulous and loved to brag about it. Later, when we fell in love, he HATED the fact that he told them that, and that they knew about our intimate details. I'm sure that's what's bothering him. It was fine and fun in the beginning, but now he'd probably prefer to keep you all to himself. Things change, people change, feelings change.
sxyNYCcpl Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 Sexy, would you be perfectly fine with your gf/fiance/wife taking her clothes off (not for money) and showing her nude body to the world? You would be 100 percent fine with this? Um, yes. Search hard enough and you will find nude and semi-nude pictures of her online, some posted by me some posted by her. She is not my possession, and is with me by her own free will. She is a beautiful woman and it would be a shame not to share that beauty with others. This is almost like him dictating to her it would not be okay to have sex with other men, emotional (non physical) affairs, or any other activity that would share an intimate part of her body or mind with everyone and their mother, that SHOULD be reserved for him. Should?? Says who? My relationship has nothing to fear from outside sexual interests. In fact, we shared a yummy couple just this past Saturday, and likely will again this coming weekend. Now, I'll grant, it's fairly customary for couples to expect both emotional and physical monogamy. That we and our friends do not does not make us "normal". That said, as I said in a previous post, it is not reasonable to begin dating a porn star, KNOWING that they are a porn star, and expect them to change just because you reach a point that you are no longer comfortable with it. You know what you are getting into, deal with it or move on.
hoping2heal Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 Lots to think about here! As much as I like modeling as a creative outlet, yes, it might have to do with self-esteem also. I would be lying if I said it's not awesome to have people telling me how sexy, beautiful, talented, etc. I am. I think it is more about self esteem than anything else. You are also setting yourself to be hurt this way. Being attractive is not a talent. It's something you had no control over, now being physically fit and working out, yes that's an accomplishment. But the shape of your breasts, your bone structure etc. That has nothing to do with being talented. There's nothing wrong with enjoying others liking your talent, but your looks are not a talent. You should immerse yourself in less superficial hobbies, so that when things start to shift (they inevitably will) you don't feel like your self worth has gown down the tubes. I'll just reiterate, I'm not a very confrontational person. On top of that, I really don't want to ahve a serious confrontation now, when I'm about to move to a new city for my bf. I'm already giving up a lot, he's given up NOTHING. Do you resent him for this? It seems you do, you ever hear that phrase "If it isn't in your heart to give it, don't" ? That applies here, don't move if you're just going to resent the person by default. It won't do either of you any favors. I never downplayed my modeling. He has a link to my modeling portfolio, so before I took it down he could see everything I was up to. This is good, but once he got more serious about you, can you understand how he would no longer be so ok with it? My past relationships ended for a number of reasons. Some I ended, some my then boyfriend ended. If I'm completely honest, the times I got dumped were pretty much for reasons like I'm a "mess" and I need to "grow up." Thos aren't anyone's exact words, but that's sorta what it came down to I guess? My last boyfriend's words were I "had too much going on." I commend you for being so honest, most people would never state what you did here. Good for you. I'm not saying you're a mess or you need to grow up, but do you think there's a bit of truth in any of this? ETC. Not so much that you're a mess/need to grow up, but maybe you don't have your ducks in a row yet and have some growing up to do? That's nothing to be ashamed of. It's always to our benefit to realise this. I have asked modeling/photographer friends for input before coming here. They said he's insecure and I shouldn't have to change for him. I went to them because I took my portfolio down for my boyfriend, and I got criticized for doing it. They said i should just be me and if he can't deal, dump him. OF COURSE they said that. It isn't their gf or wife putting the goods out for several other men to see, not to mention it benefits them to have you keep this "hobby" up. Honey, I'm worried about you. You need to be careful who you are calling friend here. I just get the impression these people don't have your best interest in mind here. That worries me for you. There are men who kiss and rub on other women when they go out with the "boys" - what do the "boys" say? Hey just be yourself, if she doesn't like it give her the boot! Or there are people with legitimate alchohol addiction, what do their friends say? "Hey, be yourself and if so and so can't handle it, forget them!" These people don't have their friends best interest in mind. I think this "hobby" is attatched to an issue with self esteem and a need for validation, and that goes far beyond being a "hobby". I could be wrong, but that's just the impressions I'm getting here. Lastly, I sent him a couple photos from the last shoot he didn't know about. He was surprisingly "OK" with it? I mean, he said they were nice photos...
hoping2heal Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 Yeah he prob. would' date=' he admitted he is a swinger and is in open relationships. So with a guy like SxyNYccpl anything goes.[/quote'] LOL Oh, nevermind then.
sxyNYCcpl Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 First I would say, being naked is an intimate thing you really only share with your partner. A part of that intimacy goes away if they start posing naked. At the risk of sounding like a petulant 4 year old, why? What is so special about the nude human form that it is to be limited only to the one person who you have chosen to spend your life with? Second off, it's a woman that requires attention from other guys, and thats a huge turn off. The woman I'm with should be content with the attention she gets from me, if she's seeking it elsewhere then it puts an unecessary strain on a relationship. Really? Because when other guys (or girls for that matter) pay attention to my girl, it makes me proud that she is with me, and not them. Yes, under the right circumstances if they get lucky they may get a taste, but after that taste she's going back home with me. My theory is that all of this nonsense, being afraid of public naked pictures, or flirting, or even taking it farther than that, is all based on fear. Fear of losing the relationship. If your relationship is pure and true, no such fear exists.
sxyNYCcpl Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 Well I dunno' date=' tell that to that billions of dollars pumped into the porn industry. What's so special about naked people? [/quote'] Porn and nudity are not necessarily the same thing.
hoping2heal Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 At the risk of sounding like a petulant 4 year old, why? What is so special about the nude human form that it is to be limited only to the one person who you have chosen to spend your life with? This is the kind of thing you have been desensitized too. It is a sacred and special thing, too bad you'll never understand that. Really? Because when other guys (or girls for that matter) pay attention to my girl, it makes me proud that she is with me, and not them. Yes, under the right circumstances if they get lucky they may get a taste, but after that taste she's going back home with me. No comment My theory is that all of this nonsense, being afraid of public naked pictures, or flirting, or even taking it farther than that, is all based on fear. Fear of losing the relationship. If your relationship is pure and true, no such fear exists. Maybe, maybe sometimes that's what it is. But, maybe some people just want to be intimate with their partners, and want something that doesn't get shared with EVERYONE else. We already share our support, opinions, thoughts, nuances with friends, family, strangers etc. Some people, I being one of them enjoy having something between us that is sacred and special, just for the two of us.
Stark Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 At the risk of sounding like a petulant 4 year old, why? What is so special about the nude human form that it is to be limited only to the one person who you have chosen to spend your life with? Generally it's reserved for people who you feel comfortable with and a sort of special thing, it is not the body but the mental connection that being naked presents. When you give the gift up and share it with others, you lose that connection and a special part of your relationship gets lost. Really? Because when other guys (or girls for that matter) pay attention to my girl, it makes me proud that she is with me, and not them. Yes, under the right circumstances if they get lucky they may get a taste, but after that taste she's going back home with me. My theory is that all of this nonsense, being afraid of public naked pictures, or flirting, or even taking it farther than that, is all based on fear. Fear of losing the relationship. If your relationship is pure and true, no such fear exists. Again, for the same reason above. Flirting/getting attention in that "special way " are all intimate values of a relationship and what makes that bond just that bit more special than friendship. When you give that over to others the bond between you gets a little less unique. You are right in saying that fear/jealousy is a part of it, fear of losing someone. I agree with that. But that's generally because when people put themselves in temptations way enough times, well you know the saying, play with fire and you'll get burned. In your case it's a bit different, as you are sexually open with your wife, so you don't mind if someone gets a taste, but for most people, it's a case of keeping the bond between each other. It's also a respect thing as well. I can understand your views, because you look at sex/intimacy from a different perspective and share it and are okay with sharing it, but I don't want to share my partner, I like having a bond that only two of us have, and it's not just sex as you know but other things.
hoping2heal Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 Generally it's reserved for people who you feel comfortable with and a sort of special thing, it is not the body but the mental connection that being naked presents. When you give the gift up and share it with others, you lose that connection and a special part of your relationship gets lost. Again, for the same reason above. Flirting/getting attention in that "special way " are all intimate values of a relationship and what makes that bond just that bit more special than friendship. When you give that over to others the bond between you gets a little less unique. You are right in saying that fear/jealousy is a part of it, fear of losing someone. I agree with that. But that's generally because when people put themselves in temptations way enough times, well you know the saying, play with fire and you'll get burned. In your case it's a bit different, as you are sexually open with your wife, so you don't mind if someone gets a taste, but for most people, it's a case of keeping the bond between each other. It's also a respect thing as well. I can understand your views, because you look at sex/intimacy from a different perspective and share it and are okay with sharing it, but I don't want to share my partner, I like having a bond that only two of us have, and it's not just sex as you know but other things. Excellent post Stark. I agree 210%
boldjack Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 Wake, I see this ending badly. It's clear that you want to continue with this, and he isn't too crazy about the idea. Any time there is a difference of opinion as big as this, you BOTH must comunicate your positions. You guys haven't even started living together yet and already you both have resentment issues. These issues are only going to get bigger and more heated when you are together everyday. If you want to make it as a couple, you will have to either find a way to pose, that your BF finds exceptable or you will have to quit, or you will have to break up and find a guy, who is ok with your hobby. NONe of this can happen without you being able to sit down and talk it out. If he won't bring the subject up, then you must. As far as you giving up everything to live with him, he is giving you a home, food, and sharing his life with you , and you think that is Nothing?
norajane Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 I can see what everyone's saying about communicating with my bf about this. However, I am (again) pretty irked that he KNEW about this BEFORE the beginning, he LIKES telling his friends what I do, and yeah, he's making snotty comments, but if he has a problem, he should tell me about it, not make me guess or bring it up. He did bring it up by making that one comment. You had the perfect opportunity to ask him right when he said it: "why? does my modeling bother you?" Why didn't you say something to him right then? And why are you so stubbornly opposed to talking to him about this? Why is it so annoying to you that you might need to discuss something, and that you might have to bring it up since you didn't say anything when he first mentioned it? AND AGAIN, I'm giving up a lot for him already. Did he ask you and have to talk you into giving up anything? Or were you all for the idea? I agree with the poster who said if you aren't giving it freely, then don't. Ever see that Sex and the City episode where Charlotte converts to Judaism for a guy and freaks out because he hasn't proposed yet? She yells at him, "I gave up Jesus for you!!!" And he tells her it's going to be a long, ugly life together if she keeps bringing up every time they disagree, "I gave up Jesus for you!!" And then he broke up with her. Same applies here. If every time you have an issue with his opinion or the two of you disagree, you think "I gave up everything for him!!", then the two of you aren't going to last a minute together.
sxyNYCcpl Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 It is a sacred and special thing, too bad you'll never understand that. Sacred? Why? Says who? Sex has two, and only two purposes. Procreation and recreation. Sex for purposes of procreation is not to be taken lightly, for if you are successful in your goal, you have created a life that requires your support and assistance for the first couple of decades. Sex done for recreation is wholly different, and is not very different than other physical activities done for recreation, such as golf or tennis. Some people, I being one of them enjoy having something between us that is sacred and special, just for the two of us. Again, you describe a physical act as sacred. Why? (PS... For the record, I am not saying, nor do I believe that you are wrong, but I am a student of human behavior and find this conversation absolutely fascinating, and feel that by challenging your position we can both learn from each other.)
New Again Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 This is actually a topic that I can really see both sides of. I know that the nude modeling thing is not something that is for me (or what I would want in an SO), but I do see both sides. I have a friend who models, and she occasionally does nude work on a very selective basis. I do think that it is tied to low self-esteem, but I also know my friend very well, so it's easier for me to comment on her situation. In defense of the OP, modeling is hard work, time consuming, and it's not just about having a nice body or a pretty face. My impression is also that they're not very sexy. The photo shoot itself I mean. It's not just the model and photographer snapping pics in a bedroom or something. There's also a bunch of people holding lights, probably a makeup artist, and so on.
Jilly Bean Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 Ever see that Sex and the City episode where Charlotte converts to Judaism for a guy and freaks out because he hasn't proposed yet? She yells at him, "I gave up Jesus for you!!!" And he tells her it's going to be a long, ugly life together if she keeps bringing up every time they disagree, "I gave up Jesus for you!!" And then he broke up with her. He broke up with her because she said to him, "Do you know what people think when they see us together?" And he said, "Yeah, I do. I just didn't think you were one of them." Sorry - sidebar because it was SUCH a great scene. But, I do agree with your point. Wake has to want to give it up because she loves him, not because he tells her to.
sxyNYCcpl Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 Generally it's reserved for people who you feel comfortable with and a sort of special thing, it is not the body but the mental connection that being naked presents. Except you are wrong. Nudity, in same sex environments (for example, locker rooms) is perfectly normal and acceptable human behavior. But for some reason we have collectively decided than nudity in mixed sex environments is "wrong". Why? When you give the gift up and share it with others, you lose that connection and a special part of your relationship gets lost. Being naked is a "gift"? Weren't we all born that way? When you give that over to others the bond between you gets a little less unique. Why is it important that something be unique to be special? In your case it's a bit different, as you are sexually open with your wife, so you don't mind if someone gets a taste, but for most people, it's a case of keeping the bond between each other. But if the relationship is pure, is true, does it need to be exclusive? Because if your spouse truly loves you, is it not true that she/he could have sex with the totality of the Dallas Cowboy's and their Cheerleaders, and regardless of the individual sexual prowess of any given individual, they'd come back home to you? (PS... I'd say the same to you as I said to the last poster, I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm merely challenging your positions because the back and forth is fascinating. We humans represent many different POV's.)
sxyNYCcpl Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 People watch tv for recreation' date=' I just would never want to equate making love to someone I care about to watching tv. But that's just me.[/quote'] Making love and f**king are two different things. To an outside observer, they may look quite similar, identical even, but they are not.
boldjack Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 Would anyone like to drink from a bottle that 25 other people have already drank from?
sxyNYCcpl Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 You've been to a nudist beach I am sure' date=' what is so special about seeing everyone naked? NOTHING.[/quote'] Yes, I have. We go to a nude beach on a regular basis when the weather cooperates. Which means on any given summer weekend, we see thousands of other naked people (plus the one that three years ago was a man, last year had boobs and junk, and while we haven't seen "her" yet this year, we're assuming she's gone all the way female). I enjoy the naked female. My lovely wife enjoys naked females and naked males. So what? Of course we made nudity special and sex special because we have confined them to restrictive quarters' date=' but I just don't see why that is bad. In fact I think it is really good. It is far more exciting that way.[/quote'] Perhaps this is the crux of the matter. You find that more exciting. I (and those like me) find the opposite to be exciting. Viva la difference!
Stark Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 Except you are wrong. Nudity, in same sex environments (for example, locker rooms) is perfectly normal and acceptable human behavior. But for some reason we have collectively decided than nudity in mixed sex environments is "wrong". Why? Because there is attraction to it, elsewise we'd be having men/woman changing rooms . Being naked is a "gift"? Weren't we all born that way? The mental connection is the gift. Being naked for; A) Attraction B) The mental connection between your and your partner. Why is it important that something be unique to be special? It doesn't, it just makes it all that more special. But if the relationship is pure, is true, does it need to be exclusive? Because if your spouse truly loves you, is it not true that she/he could have sex with the totality of the Dallas Cowboy's and their Cheerleaders, and regardless of the individual sexual prowess of any given individual, they'd come back home to you? Well, if the person holds the value that exclusive is part of a relationship, then yes the relationship does need to be exclusive. The same way that a relationship for you needs to be an open relationship, else it's not a relationship to you. Also, people value sex differently. Yes, they could love you and have sex with multiple people. But it won't be the relationship you want and it will lose its meaning, because sex again for most people in a relationship is an intimate thing, the mutual connection between you and your partner. If your significant other goes out and does it, that connection goes. Oh yes, you are correct in saying they may still love you, you have other things such as closeness. But you still lose a part of the relationship that makes it great. Not to mention that most people get repulsed/sickened by the idea of someone screwing their partner. (PS... I'd say the same to you as I said to the last poster, I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm merely challenging your positions because the back and forth is fascinating. We humans represent many different POV's.)
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