Who is Trading Down when both Married??

[Reggie]

There have actually been studies on this and yes, often (more often than not) the AP is less attractive, less educated, less successful, less charming... etc... than the spouse. In my case it was an irrefutable fact. I was shocked at what she looked like and couldn't believe my eyes when I saw her photographs.

 

There are actually psychological studies on why the MP goes with someone less attractive than their spouse. It has to do with control.

 

Now, it is either a double trade down when there are two MP cheating together... or one trading down convincing the other they are the cat's meow to get what they want. In the case of my husband's MW, she was trying to leave her husband for a long, long, time but due to the fact that she was poor and uneducated she couldn't support herself. Hence, her looking him up on the internet... and him seizing the opportunity. Basically, she offered sex on a platter hoping for a paycheck. So, she went looking for a replacement husband and thought mine would do just fine. Mate poaching here....

 

Yes, but the trade down thing is subjective, Gamine. The criteria are all subjective. Beauty is very subjective, as we have seen the ideals change over time.

And, can we really assign a value on a scale for things like education, beauty, etc. See we come at this with our own preconceived notions of what has greater value. So, the studies are based entirely on criteria which may not be accepted by all.

Even if we accept that there are some objective standards to measure things like beauty , intelligence, earning potential, etc. the value each individual places on each criteria will vary.

For example, is a man of limited intelligence really trading up if he hooks up with someone much smarter than him? Wouldn't that , in a sense, be trading down, as he has found someone less compatible, someone with whom, after the excitement wears off, he may be completely unable to relate to, thus making him lonely?

Or, a woman who society's standards (again, no objectivity) say is less physically attractive hooking up with an incredibly handsome guy may, due to the judgement of society, feel inferior, eventually.

See, by the standards I'd like to apply to my XWW's OM, I think I am better. But, I have to watch that. Does the fact that I can make more $$, am better looking (IMO), and , again by the measurements we arbitrarily choose to use to assess certain forms of intelligence(often ignoring other forms ,as I lack in those areas),am smarter make me the upside of this equation?

I just think human beings are way to multi-faceted to make any type of measurement as to whether a WS is trading up or down.

I think the whole idea of comparing ourselves to others is a losing proposition. I do think, in the aftermath of having one's self esteem obliterated by an affair, though, that it is natural to want to comfort oneself by comparing.

I think I have come to realize that the source of much of our discomfort in life, in affair situations and tons of other situations, comes from our failure to realize that our own intrinsic value stands on its own.

My dad and I got into a heated argument about the standards by which we assign value to things. He was a very bright guy, finishing Harvard Law School in 2 years and he was asked to stay and teach.

We were watching a football game and Brian Bosworth , a linebacker for Oklahoma was playing. At the time, he was considered one of the premier college players in the country. My dad, for some reason(probably Bosworth's appearance, as he was sporting a Mohawk) felt it neccessary to go on about what a stupid person this guy was(he had no basis for this. Just assumed.). So, as a rebelious teenager, I pointed out that in terms of realtive athletic ability, and perhaps other qualities, Bosworth might consider my dad inferior, perhaps retarded in those areas. I took the position that my dad's definition of intelligence was arbitrary, as motor function is controlled by the central nervous system just like language, computational skills, etc. And Bosworth's brain was obviously better at conveying certain electrical impluses than was my dad'sThings got a little heated(not a good idea to engage in this type of debate with a smart alcoholic).

But, it was evident to me that there is some type of drive to make ourselves feel better by comparing ourselves with others.

I notice this a lot. Someone will acknowledge another's obvious talent, but qualify it by commenting on some other aspect of the person where the commentator feels he is superior.

It has taken me a lot of time to realize this and having a child with Down syndrome and autism has helped. My son is 21 and can barely talk, yet he can communicate his feelings in ways I could never do. He has genius ablities when it comes to the capacity for love, and he is completely devoid of guile or any antipathy. He is a genius at living in the present and not worrying about things that are beyond his control. He can love unconditionally.(and, he is super flexible, could whistle and hold his braeth underwater at 1, way before any of my other kids).

He is short, and has typical Down's features but he looks really beautiful.

The folks that cheat have traded down in the sense that they have abandoned their values and have betrayed themselves, as well. So, I think they have traded their integrity and the trust that others had in them. And, I believe they can get those things back, if they do the work.

[Reggie]

Believe me , Gamine. This is not a phenomenon limited to one gender or age group. Look at all the plastic surgery and drive for material wealth, in addition to the desire to hook up. It's very prevalent in both genders and all age groups.

[OFGnomore]

wow! I just read the posts from this topic in the OW forum....LS closed it...it remionds me of the texts I read from my H's MOW..she would get reallyupset when he would do things with me, in one she said, "I can't believe you'd spend time with her that way when you could be with me!" DUHHH!

 

the idea of it being a 'competition'???..hmmm...perhaps jealousy and envy are being confused?

 

Jealousy is when you are afraid or want to protect what is already yours: A BS is jealous of the OW once she learns of her b/c OW is trying to take what she already has: her H.

 

Envy is when you want something someone else has: The OW envies the W b/c the W (usually) has first dibs on the H and the OW wants what is not hers.

 

 

 

I can see being young and naive and getting involved with a MM...but once a woman reaches a level of maturity, by say age 25-27 or so, for them to knowingly involve themselves with a MM says more about them than they realize...sad sad sad.

 

And yes, bring on the "I am the happiest OW on the planet!!" sure you are.

 

FR:

 

It goes BOTH ways...

 

This phenonema goes beyond your current logic and understanding. Here's my experience. In an A emotions get so convoluted. You don't know how much to feel or what to expect but as you keep moving along in the A you get more attached whether you're an OW or an OM. My xOM sent me nasty letters about how I tried ending it with him. Told him I needed to show him respect and do it in person. Left his wife at party because I was "hanging" on my husband and he didn't deserve that. Got jealous of my male neighbor when I baked a lasagna for their family while his wife was in hospice. Even, better he got pissed when I saw a movie with my kids that he wanted to see with me!!!! Had enough? He told me outright how jealous he was of me all the time. From my hobbies to the people I talked too. Accused me of manipulating him, shredding his emotions, etc. Like I mentioned in a previous post, at a low period of my M, all this crazy attention made me feel pretty good, temporarily.

 

This is where from my experience I don't buy that many WHs aren't as attached as they tell their Ws in reconcilation. I think OFTEN "it's was just sex" is a pretty convenient "believable" excuse and women are more than happy to believe it than to think it could have been emotional.

 

For lack of a better word, As can get both men's and women's thinking pretty effed up.

[Tony]

I closed down this discussion in another thread. Nothing constructive is happening here. Don't start one up again. Thank you!

[Darth Vader]

Well, you've got to consider that you basically asked a bunch of men and women why someone "traded down" to be with them, specifically. Easy to understand why that would have offended them when you look at it from their viewpoint.

 

No one wants to be considered as a "step down". Asking this question on that forum was undoubtedly pretty insulting to most of the OW/OM who read it.

 

I don't buy the "trade down" concept in general. No one 'wants' to "trade down". They're always thinking that they're going for "equal or better".

 

Asking who was worse in the situation you describe doesn't seem to make a lot of sense either, when you think about it. How could anyone possibly make that kind of determination given the very general circumstance you posted? There's no way to guess on something like that, nor does it really have any impact on someone's specific situation when you get down to it.

 

 

Yeah, they were definately pissed Owl. Apparently, this Thread over there was a Beat to the chops for the OM/OW as well as the waywards. It's like the poster took a mirror over there and held it up to them and screamed, hey, take a look! They didn't like what they saw!

 

No wonder they were pissed!

 

Yeah, that was just the wrong forum to post it in!