barbutti Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 My wife has told me she doesn't love me any more. I have suffered from clinical depression most of my adult life, which has often manifested itself in verbal attacks on her and general irritability. I have gone for help off and on over the past twenty years and am currently on medication, but I only get a partial response. After twenty years of marriage and two children, ages 15 and 11, she has told me she feels she has lost the battle to my depression, and that she doesn't want to get hurt again. She tells me she is still very attractied to me physically. She has also been out to lunch several times with a former coworker who is fifteen years younger than her. She tells me it is just a friendship, and that he provides her with some sense of optimism and joy. However, I was checking the internet history of our computer (solely to insure my sons weren't on inappropriate websites), and I came across google searches she has performed on "emotional affair" and "can't stop thinking about other man". So I did something that is unethical. I checked her email (in the past she gave me the password for bill paying purposes). What I found was a series of emails that appear to be back and forth conversation between friends, but with a little bit of affection thrown in. I have told her recently that I have made horrible mistakes in my relationship with her, that I have mistreated her and have not been there for her emotionally. I still love her very much, which unfortunately has had me following her around like a lovesick puppy dog and generally driving her nuts. However, I have also committed to going into an intensive lengthy program to attempt to deal with my depression, and heal my relationship. She tells me she is very happy about this and is not yet decided on divorce, though she is skeptical as to whether I can really make permanent changes. I have asked her in return to quit seeing this guy while we try to work things out. She says she will consider it, but she insists it is just a friendship and nothing more. If I push it, she says I am being overbearing and controlling. I am here because I don't know where I stand. Every hour for me is agony. I can think of nothing else but saving my marriage, and I live in constant fear of a life without her and my kids. I am convinced that if shes gives me a chance, I can turn our relationship around, but I think she is just too worn out and frazzled to care much anymore. And the "friendship" with this other guy complicates things even more. Do you think I have a chance? Is there anything I can do (or not do) that I'm not already trying? Please help.
LisaUk Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 Hi Firstly, you have a physical illness that is beyond your control. When your w made vows to you, she vowed in sickness and in health. Not only can you not help your medical condition, but you have done your absolute best to get it under medical control. Although I can appreciate that living with someone with clinical depression must be difficult (my ex had ADD), it does not excuse her behaviour in seeking out another and personally, it does sound like an EA to me. Secondly, your w is putting this "friend" over and above saving your marriage, does that sound like he's just a friend to you? If she wants to work on your marriage, whether he is just a friend or not, YOU should come first and she should cease all contact with her "friend". I'm sorry if this is all coming across as very harsh, but I have done nothing but read threads on here where men are tearing themselves apart over women who are totally didsrespecting their marriages. The best hope you have of reconciliation with your w is to do what's called the 180 (google divorce busting), seek help for your medical condition, but do that for you, not for her. You might like to have a look at the marriagebuilders website as well and some of the otehr threads on here. MrMAyI, Lupa and Dititalwizard may all help you. Look out for any posts by Owl he is the EA guru and he and his w are still happily married. I know you are in a great deal of pain right now and your first instict is to try and reason with your w, but believe me when I tell you this will only push her further away, you need to edcuate yourself on the 180 and follow it to the letter. It does sound like there may be a chance as she has said she is not decided yet, but bear in mind that actions speak louder than words and she has left and she refuses to cut all contact with OM. Keep posting, everyone here is great, we are all in this together.
hopesndreams Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 Sorry to say there isn't much chance as long as the OM is in the picture. He is giving her all the warm fuzzies and it will be difficult for her to let go of that. She won't let go him, I guarantee you that. The more you harp on about it, the more it will draw her to him. Get the help you need for the depression and change your life around for you, not her. Find happiness within yourself and be the man you want to be. She will notice the positive changes and be drawn to you, but there is still the OM. When you have done all you can do for you, and this can take quite the while, months even, and if she hasn't made any strides toward you in that time, the best thing to do is cut her loose, completely, from your life. Sometimes, it's only that, that will bring them back to you. When you know you have lost, say sayanora, spare yourself from more heartbreak that way. Know when to give up the fight.
razghoul Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 I am sorry to hear of your problems. It is very hard. Sounds like you have a plan. Be careful of the emotional affair situation. I can't tell you that I know what to do. I am here with a similar problem. In my case my wife has left me 8 days ago an I am still right in the middle of the roller coaster. There is no timeline that I can find to comfort you. It will take time. Everyone here is very hopeful. I would suggest finding the "180" list. A member called "Gunny" posted it. You will want to modify it to your situation as she hasn't left you. But it talks about not chasing (following like a love sick puppy). You said be attractive make yourself the man she loves. I am finding that there are no easy answers. I am finding hope and you will to. It's one day at a time. It's way to early for me to be giving any advice, but you have someone here that is listening. That's all I have to offer at this point. Keep posting and reading. There are very good ideas and help here. Hell it is even a real good distraction when your emotions take over and you feel like doing something silly. Be good to yourself and she will follow.
MrMayI Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 My wife has told me she doesn't love me any more. I have suffered from clinical depression most of my adult life, which has often manifested itself in verbal attacks on her and general irritability. I have gone for help off and on over the past twenty years and am currently on medication, but I only get a partial response. After twenty years of marriage and two children, ages 15 and 11, she has told me she feels she has lost the battle to my depression, and that she doesn't want to get hurt again. She tells me she is still very attractied to me physically. She has also been out to lunch several times with a former coworker who is fifteen years younger than her. She tells me it is just a friendship, and that he provides her with some sense of optimism and joy. However, I was checking the internet history of our computer (solely to insure my sons weren't on inappropriate websites), and I came across google searches she has performed on "emotional affair" and "can't stop thinking about other man". So I did something that is unethical. I checked her email (in the past she gave me the password for bill paying purposes). What I found was a series of emails that appear to be back and forth conversation between friends, but with a little bit of affection thrown in. I have told her recently that I have made horrible mistakes in my relationship with her, that I have mistreated her and have not been there for her emotionally. I still love her very much, which unfortunately has had me following her around like a lovesick puppy dog and generally driving her nuts. However, I have also committed to going into an intensive lengthy program to attempt to deal with my depression, and heal my relationship. She tells me she is very happy about this and is not yet decided on divorce, though she is skeptical as to whether I can really make permanent changes. I have asked her in return to quit seeing this guy while we try to work things out. She says she will consider it, but she insists it is just a friendship and nothing more. If I push it, she says I am being overbearing and controlling. I am here because I don't know where I stand. Every hour for me is agony. I can think of nothing else but saving my marriage, and I live in constant fear of a life without her and my kids. I am convinced that if shes gives me a chance, I can turn our relationship around, but I think she is just too worn out and frazzled to care much anymore. And the "friendship" with this other guy complicates things even more. Do you think I have a chance? Is there anything I can do (or not do) that I'm not already trying? Please help. welcome. sure, there's always a chance, but for now, stop following her around, start acting like you're OK with whatever she wants, even though you're not, take care of yourself and your sons, and really do some research on emotional affairs on your own. so many of us here are experiencing the same thing, but in many different ways. browse around and you may just have your eyes opened.
LisaUk Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 I am sorry to hear of your problems. It is very hard. Sounds like you have a plan. Be careful of the emotional affair situation. I can't tell you that I know what to do. I am here with a similar problem. In my case my wife has left me 8 days ago an I am still right in the middle of the roller coaster. There is no timeline that I can find to comfort you. It will take time. Everyone here is very hopeful. I would suggest finding the "180" list. A member called "Gunny" posted it. You will want to modify it to your situation as she hasn't left you. But it talks about not chasing (following like a love sick puppy). You said be attractive make yourself the man she loves. I am finding that there are no easy answers. I am finding hope and you will to. It's one day at a time. It's way to early for me to be giving any advice, but you have someone here that is listening. That's all I have to offer at this point. Keep posting and reading. There are very good ideas and help here. Hell it is even a real good distraction when your emotions take over and you feel like doing something silly. Be good to yourself and she will follow. Divorce Busting is a book, if you google it you will find the website which has the 180 and the first chapeter of the book on it, otherwise just do a search of forums for 180, should pick up which thread it is in. Hope that helps.
Author barbutti Posted July 28, 2009 Author Posted July 28, 2009 Thanks so much for your help. It is just that I am in such a weakened state right now that I find it unbearably painful. I am also unemployed at the moment which just makes matters worse. I just can't envision a life without her. I will definitely look into 180.
hopesndreams Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 Do your best to not let the emotions get the better of you. Use your brain, not your heart, to get her back. Go against everything you want to do. You must do reverse psychology. It's the only thing that works, that gets their attention, and while you are doing this, it helps you to take a step back and evaluate.
2sure Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 I dont draw the same line at infidelity as some other posters. I do believe a marriage can come to a turning point when it is discovered and that this turning point can lead to divorce or recovery. Either way , it has to bring honest change. In your own words, the communication between theis man & your wife has not yet crossed the line from friendship to emotional affair. It sounds like your wife has already had the same concerns that you do...and that, to me is not the same as an affair. But the threat is there. You are uncomfortable. The first decision to made by both you and your wife right now is: Do we both want to save this marriage? If she does not want to stop this potential emotional affair in ints tracks by cutting off contact with the guy...then you have your answer. I understand that you have a medical illness. I understand depression is uncontollable. When this kind of condition manifests itself in verbal and emotional abuse over the course of so very many years...it must be difficult for your wife to reconcile herself to a life with more of the same. As you state, your condition is not something you can control , or you would have been able to do that by now. How involved has she been as far as treatment of your illness?
curiousnycgirl Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 Please do not take what I"m about to say as being against you, just trying to see all sides here. Based on what you've written - your disease has caused you to be verbally abusive to your wife and your medication has stopped to work. Yet you are not seeking alternate theraputic approaches until she has thrown in the towel. Sounds to me like you've pushed her so far that she finally broke. Yes the vows we take say in sickness and in health - but if someone is sick and not seeking help, then what? Again I'm only trying to see both sides, so on top of being verbally abusive, you are now unemployed - which in the current global economy is certianly not your fault - so she has added burden. Can you not see why she may be reluctant to give up the the friend she has turned to in her time of need? Is she supposed to suddenly believe the new therapy will work when others have failed? Frankly if that were me I'd be very hurt that all forms of therapy been tried sooner. I understand that you are hurt, and that you have a documented disease that puts you at a disadvantage, but what about your wife? Was she just supposed to take it because she married you? Once it was too much for her, was she just supposed to keep getting kicked? How do you think she feels when you are verbally abusive to her in front of her kids? Do you think that is a healthy environment to raise them in? Frankly I don't blame her for being skeptical. Sorry if I've missed something here - and please do correct me if I am wrong - but at this point I think the only thing you can do is work on you. Since your wife is not yet committed to divorce, hopefully she will see positive change and then begin to work on the marriage. But I don't think you are in a position right now to tell her to give up her friend. In fact I don't even understand your logic in saying I'll go to therapy if you give up the guy - you should be going to therapy for you regardless. I wish you the very best of luck in all of this!
LisaUk Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 I have suffered from clinical depression most of my adult life, which has often manifested itself in verbal attacks on her and general irritability. I have gone for help off and on over the past twenty years and am currently on medication, but I only get a partial response. However, I have also committed to going into an intensive lengthy program to attempt to deal with my depression, and heal my relationship. She tells me she is very happy about this and is not yet decided on divorce, though she is skeptical as to whether I can really make permanent changes. I have asked her in return to quit seeing this guy while we try to work things out. She says she will consider it, but she insists it is just a friendship and nothing more. If I push it, she says I am being overbearing and controlling. He says he has sought treatment for his illness many times over the years. Unfortunately some chemical illnesses are very difficult to treat. Clinical depression is a disease of the nureoreceptors on the brain, there is an unproduction of a neurotransmitter or an excess of a deactivator. It is a PHYSICAL condition, no alternative therapy is going to cure it, there may be programmes that can help the sufferer deal with it to some extent. He has tried to get the balance of his meds right, there is only so much a doctor can do. He has clearly already commited to trying coping techniques, hence the programme, there was no mention of "only if" you give up your friend, he said he is commited to it anyway, but has asked her to stop seeing this man that she clearly has feelings for. She is shifting the blame and projecting her own insecruities onto him by making him out to be the bad guy, saying he is being controlling as a means of justifying her own behaviour. I do feel for the w, like I said living with someone who has an illness is hard work, but life is hard work and marriage is supposed to be a partnership. He is fulfilling his part in the partnership by trying to get his illness controlled, BOTH in the past and present, she on the other hand appears to be seeking comfort elsewhere. He has every right to ask his w to stop seeing this man, when he has found that she has been researching having feelings for him. That's just my two cents.
Author barbutti Posted July 28, 2009 Author Posted July 28, 2009 Honestly I can already see that pulling away from her and focusing on getting better is the best approach. My hounding and pleading with her to give me another chance is making things worse. I am in no position to make any demands of her. I know depression is an illness, and our bond is in sickness and health, but I have dragged her down so much and brought so much anxiety to her life that she is afraid of getting sick herself. As to alternative therapies, I have researched and tried many approaches. Some help but none is a cure. I am not giving up on finding the right therapy or medication. My wife has told me that we have been married for twenty years, and it is not going to end overnight. She said she needs a chance to heal. I believe she is an honorable and moral person, and I really question whether she would allow herself to get into a full blown affair, but I also know that her refusal to commit to quit seeing this guy is a real red flag. She has told me she has made no plans to see him again, and that it is something we could discuss in my therapy (which she says she wants to be involved in). I have some hope but not a lot.
curiousnycgirl Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 See now I think you have reason for lots of hope! By virtue of the fact that your wife wants to be involved in your therapy you know that she is still deeply invested in you - that is wonderful. Don't focus on anything other than therapy and self improvement right now, I'm willing to bet the rest will follow. Good luck
MrFun Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 Hey man, My wife has told me she doesn't love me any more. Something has been wrong in your relationship for a very long time. I have suffered from clinical depression most of my adult life, which has often manifested itself in verbal attacks on her and general irritability.This is the most dominant reason. Fix this asap! I have gone for help off and on over the past twenty years and am currently on medication, but I only get a partial response. This could be the most difficult time in your life. It's a long and winding road. You're trying to better yourself. Most people just put their head in the sand and ignore. Rock on! she has told me she feels she has lost the battle to my depression, and that she doesn't want to get hurt again. Fair enough. You can't expect someone to accompany you on your mission to fix yourself. But you will get better, with or without her. You're taking the steps in the right direction. She tells me she is still very attractied to me physically. You're good in bed, and she likes that for her own selfish reasons. She tells me it is just a friendship, and that he provides her with some sense of optimism and joy. Let her. If you think that sucks, focus on what you want in your life. Build that house boat, race that nascar, climb that mountain. Whatever. Be a man and do it! Nows the time. "emotional affair" and "can't stop thinking about other man".Same old story. Immediately your male brain says, "I can fix this! I can fix this!!!". Waste of time. They're her feelings, she needs to fix them. So I did something that is unethical.When men think their wives are cheating, here's the thing, THEY USUALLY ARE. Call it male intuition or whatever. Biologically it's Spidey sense that tells a guy, "hang on, am I wasting my resources on this woman and she's getting it from some other guy? Am I protecting my REAL biological children?". In the "caveman" days, that meant either life or death. You did what any man would do. You smelt a rotting fish, went after it, and you found out she was betraying you. You know it, man! I have told her recently that I have made horrible mistakes in my relationship with her, that I have mistreated her and have not been there for her emotionally.Yeah. You suck, did you want us to say that? You made mistakes, you apologised, fair enough. I bet you deeply meant it, too. Right? A person can not do more than apologise for something he or she did and mean it from the bottom of their heart. Can't turn back time. I still love her very much, which unfortunately has had me following her around like a lovesick puppy dog and generally driving her nuts.Same old story again. Men just never learn. However, I have also committed to going into an intensive lengthy program to attempt to deal with my depression,Right! and heal my relationship.Wrong! Women want someone to lean on. They are biologically programmed to attached themselves to YOU. They're the relationship weavers, and they're eternally better at it than we are. Your role is to be a man. Once you are, your relationship will heal automatically or it's too late. You cannot force a friendship. You cannot fix a relationship. Never had a falling out with a really good buddy only to "try and fix things between you and him?". Did it work? NO. You don't go to a buddy and talk about your relationship, so don't do it to a woman. Full stop! She tells me she is very happy about this and is not yet decided on divorce, though she is skeptical as to whether I can really make permanent changes. This is all rational and theoretical. She needs to FEEL that you're the big fish that can't get away. Women leave when their man is not better than some other guy or living alone. They know the next guy will turn out sometime. They know they aren't feeling well with a guy that's not giving them what they need to feel. She's not feeling it with you, but she's clinging onto you because there's still emotions linked to you. She's getting involved with the new guy because monkeys let go of an old branch only once they cling onto a new one. She's starting to resent you. LET GO. Be a man, become attractive to women in general and she will follow. There's enough material on the Internet about this stuff, read it, observe it in real life. I have asked her in return to quit seeing this guy while we try to work things out.You can't TALK this away. Trust me, I tried for years to do that. She says she will consider it, but she insists it is just a friendship and nothing more. If I push it, she says I am being overbearing and controlling. You are controlling and overbearing even for suggesting it. She's pulling away from you, she will pull more and so will you. Try Judo. She pulls AWAY, you pull AWAY. She does what you like, reward her. Never reward her for behaviour you don't like. She needs to put her money where her mouth is. I am here because I don't know where I stand.Where you stand? You're beta to her. She's looking for alpha. You're "abusive", you have ill-health (depression), and now you're controlling and overbearing. Quit that behaviour, buddy! Remember how cocky and cool you felt to have found her in the beginning? You did all those amazing things? Everything seemed fresh? And now, how it's all messed up? Be the guy you were before all this. Go out and live your life. If you really need to, tell her. "Hey, we had it good. I'm really sorry for how I treated you. I need to work on myself. Don't be a stranger." and leave it at that. She's not dumb, and 99% of the women on this board that were left by their bfs would LOVE to hear words like those. Every hour for me is agony.Every hour was agony for me too after she broke up with me. I went out and built a guitar amp. I travelled to England, climbed Hellvellyn. When she left me I was having painful unilateral seizures and my dad was DYING in hospital. She didn't care, dumped me without closure and sent me two emails telling me, after 6 years, that we were too different because I didn't like cafes and tattoos! I rose up from the ashes. 11 months later I couldn't care less about someone that stands in my way of fixing myself. I know for a fact that I'll find someone that appreciates me more. AND SO WILL YOU. I can think of nothing else but saving my marriage, and I live in constant fear of a life without her and my kids. Kids need a real man as a dad, not a wimpering, sobbing cling-on. Women will test this. Once you're a wimp, she will never be attracted to you. NEVER. I am convinced that if shes gives me a chance, I can turn our relationship around,There goes Mr. Fixit it again. but I think she is just too worn out and frazzled to care much anymore. And the "friendship" with this other guy complicates things even more. Do you see now how unattractive you have become? He's just a light that shines brighter than you....but only right now. You have the opportunity to shine. Good luck, man!
Author barbutti Posted July 28, 2009 Author Posted July 28, 2009 MrFun, that was really helpful. Thanks!
hopesndreams Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 Would people be more sympathetic of your plight if you were suffering from something physical? You are darn right they would. Such stigma attached to mental illness, even in this day and age, of information readily available for those to make informed decisions and to understand what mental illness entails choose to not treat it as something one has no control over. OP, your W had no reason to have another man waiting in the wings. If she was so unhappy with you she could have left you without another man in the picture. She is setting herself up for leaving you. She is acting on purely selfish needs and desires. She doesn't care about your thoughts and feelings anymore. Through thick and thin eh? Naw, not for some. Stick to plan. Maybe she will wake up and do what's right and if she doesn't, you'll be free of her cheating ways. Once people get a taste for the grass is greener bullsh*t, it is dang near impossible for them to change their mind, unless, you give them a real taste of what life will be like without you. Look at it this way. If it were you up to the hurtful games that she is, what would she do? With that question, perhaps your answer would be that it would be an impossibility, that you are not wired that way. Even after many years with one person you just never know if they will turn on you and make your life as you know it, a misery. You deserve to be with someone of the same mindset. Trials and tribulations come to many and there are simply those that bail and those that stick it out. Granted, she gave you many years but she was a ticking time bomb for what she is doing now. Looking back, were there any signs of this? There are only 2 ways to look at this. Complete forgiveness of her actions and she has complete remorse. Or, she has no remorse and there is not a dang thing you can do about it. As for it being just an EA, spare me, EA will always turn to a PA when given the right circumstances. EA's are a real threat to the marriage. Live life for you. If, after awhile, she decides to join you, then it is up to you whether or not you allow her to. She is the one that has done wrong. Don't lose sight of that fact.
lkjh Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 Don't chase her. If there is another man in the picture she will think of hundreds of reason why you are to blame for this. In reality her affection is going elsewhere. You two need to get to MC right away. Let her know that her relationship with this man is wrong and it has to end in order for your marriage to survive.
LisaUk Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 Would people be more sympathetic of your plight if you were suffering from something physical? You are darn right they would. Such stigma attached to mental illness, even in this day and age, of information readily available for those to make informed decisions and to understand what mental illness entails choose to not treat it as something one has no control over. OP, your W had no reason to have another man waiting in the wings. If she was so unhappy with you she could have left you without another man in the picture. She is setting herself up for leaving you. She is acting on purely selfish needs and desires. She doesn't care about your thoughts and feelings anymore. Through thick and thin eh? Naw, not for some. Stick to plan. Maybe she will wake up and do what's right and if she doesn't, you'll be free of her cheating ways. Once people get a taste for the grass is greener bullsh*t, it is dang near impossible for them to change their mind, unless, you give them a real taste of what life will be like without you. Look at it this way. If it were you up to the hurtful games that she is, what would she do? With that question, perhaps your answer would be that it would be an impossibility, that you are not wired that way. Even after many years with one person you just never know if they will turn on you and make your life as you know it, a misery. You deserve to be with someone of the same mindset. Trials and tribulations come to many and there are simply those that bail and those that stick it out. Granted, she gave you many years but she was a ticking time bomb for what she is doing now. Looking back, were there any signs of this? There are only 2 ways to look at this. Complete forgiveness of her actions and she has complete remorse. Or, she has no remorse and there is not a dang thing you can do about it. As for it being just an EA, spare me, EA will always turn to a PA when given the right circumstances. EA's are a real threat to the marriage. Live life for you. If, after awhile, she decides to join you, then it is up to you whether or not you allow her to. She is the one that has done wrong. Don't lose sight of that fact. H&D great post, I agree with everything you have written. Having suffered with anixety problems myself in the past people really do not get it, they seem to think if you can't see it, it isn't real. Or that you have some control over it. There really is still a stigma attached to it and yet so many people will experience some form of ill mental health at some point in their lives. The way some people carry on, one would think we are back in Victorian times, with the nut houses, hosing people down to remove the devils within! Ahhh, makes me so angry. In Barbuttis case it's even more sad when people don't undertstand. Clinical depression is not the same as reactive depression. Reactive depression is depression that arises as a reult of life trauma/circumstances. It's temporary, treatable and most peole only ever have one or two bouts of it. Clinical depression IS a physical illness. It's not a reaction to anything, it is literally a chemical imbalance in the brain. There is no controlling it. Imagine that, feeling like h**l with no reason for it and not being able to do anything to make it stop. Bet that would make anyone irratable and lose their rag?! Your w is supposed to stick with you, instead like H&D said she is testing out another life first. Not on. Just simply not on.
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