Long story, and still not sure if it is true

[Darth Vader]

Yes, contact a good lawyer to find out about your rights, I hope you don't live in Illinois. Anyway, if you do find out she's screwing someone else, then she leaves the home, not you! Don't allow her to blameshift this cheating crap onto you! Like you had some fault for her stepping out on you, NO! It's all her fault!

 

Get a good keylogger that captures screenshots and passwords as well as emails that runs in the background. She may be smart enough to not use the computer, but, you'd be surprised how people can forget these things.

 

Make sure that you don't have autosave on to this web site.

 

Make sure that it's not in one of your favorites sections.

 

To me, yeah, she's Riding some other man, and doesn't want to come clean, she sounds like a cake eater to me. Too many Red Flags here to ignor it!

[Holding-On]

We have always had money problems, not because we don't have money, infact I earn quite a reasonable salary, I think we just live above our means. So whenever there was (in the past) a money problem, my wife would really take it out on me, and be miserable, and I would feel terrible because I'm the main provider and she made me feel like I'm not providing enough. Since she lost her postion is sales, she had to take quite a substantial pay cut (no commision), infact her salary is now less than half. So this has put alot of strain on our situation, and the fact that her mother moved out also, because she was paying rent and contributing to groceries. So now I was expecting the normal moaning about money, but nothing. Not ounce has she said anything. And my feeling is she is to scared to say anything about money in the fear that I will mention the fact that the money matters is now her fault.

 

 

If you end up divorced you will end up deciding what you spend. You will have the ability to live within whatever means you have. So I do not think that you should let her ability to earn or not earn money play into your decision to leave. I would definitely find out as much as possible about divorce in your state in case that is what you end up wanting.

[FuzzyDuck]

OK, here's an update, and unfortunatly it's the update I never wanted to hear.

 

So about 2 weeks ago, after much more investigation, and after finally getting phone records for the past six months, I was finally convinced, so I decided to confront my wife.

 

I made up a list of reasons why I thought she was having an affair. The list was long, 32 items, and I read it to her 1 by 1. (I never had any concrete evidence, because during my investigation the last 2 months, the affair had already been stopped, apparently just before I had confronted her the first time, 2 months ago)

 

Eventually when I reached the last point, she cracked, and admited to having an emotional affair. I was devasted. I could have handled a physical affair better I thought.

 

But we said OK. What now. Let's work on this. See what went wrong and go seek marital councelling. I love my wife, and I know she loves me, and I really want to stay in this marriage.

 

So the following week I made a new list of question, questions to find out exactly what they did, and when and where etc... We made it through the entire list with a few things that got revealed. He had seen her breasts, he had touched her breasts, they had sent each other naughty pictures, but nothing more.

 

Then suddenly out the blue she revealed, yes, they had done the deed ounce. Devastation, but what cracked me the worst was when I asked if they had used protection, they did not.

 

I got extremely angry, but calmed myself down, and said, right. OK, now it's all in the open. I do not want a divorce, I want to work on this. I need to know what went wrong (the story of what went wrong in our lives the last 3 years is even longer).

 

I said to her I will now find it extremely difficult to trust anything else she tells me, because I had to drag every detail out of her, so I said to her she needs to tell me some details out of her own, without me asking. I gave her some time to think about this.

 

About an hour later she came to me, and confessed what had been going on for the last 6 months. She had been giving him hand jobs and oral sex, atleast ounce a week. I was devasted. In the 9 years of marriage, I had never recieved oral sex from her, because she found it to discusting. I had asked her many many times to do this for me, but never. Now I learn she had been doing this to another man.

 

But we both decided, we will make our marriage work.

 

The next day I decided I would drop her off at work (I've been doing this for the last 3 weeks now, since I found out)

At her work, I asked her if she had any e-mail from him, I could perhaps use against him to get rid of him. She said no, but I decided to look anyway. This is when I found an e-mail she had sent him, during the week between the first confession of having an emotional affair, and the second confession of a full on physical affair. The email read 'I wish things could go back to the way things were, it was such a great stress reliever'

 

I flipped out, and basically told her to leave the house. I then told her I would move out. She says I'm reading the e-mail wrong, she says she meant to say she wishes things never turned sexual, and that their freindship could have just remained a freindship.

 

That evening I returned home. I knew she was truly sorry. I know she won't do it again. I know she is disgusted in herself. I know she does really love me.

 

So we have been seeing a marriage counseller/physciatrist for the last 3 weeks. Things are going well. We can feel the love we had for each other we had before. This really feels good.

 

We have even had sex, a number of times. No full on sex yet, but alot of oral sex. I feel bad for asking her to do this, is this wrong. I do return the favour though. Do I ask her to do this because I want to punish her? But I can really feel that she wants to, not like other times when it really looked like she was in another place.

 

I know we are on our way to recovery.

I am only experiencing 2 problems at the moment. I cannot stand to be away from her. When I am at work, I can't help myself, I start thinking all kinds of things, I start digging through websites and forums, I get paranoid.

The other is the mental images of her and the other man. I need to get them out of my head, otherwise I am afraid I will not be able to continue.

 

I know alot of you are going to say, leave her, why am I still staying with her etc... I have my reasons, number 1 being that I truly still love her, and I truly know she loves me. Number 2 being I we both know exactly why this kind of thing happened, and part of the counselling is to prevent any of this happenning again, so yes, we will make it through this. For this reason I ask no-one to please post anything regarding leaving her.

[FuzzyDuck]

If you end up divorced you will end up deciding what you spend. You will have the ability to live within whatever means you have. So I do not think that you should let her ability to earn or not earn money play into your decision to leave. I would definitely find out as much as possible about divorce in your state in case that is what you end up wanting.

 

Divorce is not an option, and has nothing to do with money. We will not get divorced, because we love each other.

[FuzzyDuck]

You know, funny thing is. Since the very first confrontation 3 months ago, our marriage has really been a very happy place. Fantastic even.

 

By the time I had confronted her the first time, 3 months ago, she had already broken off the affair, she had realised what she was doing, and realised what she was going to lose if I ever found out. This is also why it took so long to get the truth out of her. It's true what everybody has been saying, your gut feel is normally right.

 

Now, things having been going so well (just wish we could have gotten into counselling earlier), but I still feel she needs to be punished.

 

I know the remorse she is feeling is probably punishment enough, but I feel if she does not suffer some sort of consequence for her actions, then what will stop her from doing this again, and just being more carefull. I don't believe this will ever happen again, but that is what I believed the first time round.

 

So what would be appropriat 'punishment' without affecting what we have built so far. Something that won't hurt us any further.

[LakesideDream]

Fuzzy, I lived your life for a very long time. Probably fifteen years. I don't envy you.

 

You are making noises about "saving the marriage" , "loving each other", remember, those are your noises. The chances are excellent, probably 85% or more that your wife will lay in the weed for awhile until she resurfaces and begins again to look for an upgrade. You are committed to "saving your marriage", she is being forced to pretend she is. It'll work for awhile to. You might even get a few years out of it. Right now she's reeling from the shock of being discovered. She thought she was smart enough, beguiling enough to hide her infidelity from you until she was sure she had a cushy place to land after kicking you to the curb. I've seen it before many many times, and read about it here literally hundreds of times over the years.

 

It's sad, but it's the way it is. Men seem to be able to forgive infidelity and get through it. Women not so much. In my experiance when a woman decides that an upgrade is needed, they won't stop looking until they find what they believe is one. Nothing has changed in her eyes, except maybe she has decided your not quite as stupid as she thought you were. That's iffy though, usually they think being "caught" just happened, and won't happen the next time. Look at the way she told her story. Instead of spilling the truth, from A-Z she went through the whole alphabet one letter at a time hoping that todays letter would be the one that satisfied you. I'd bet you serious money that what you've heard so far is about... "L" and that more than half the story is still, and will forever be untold.

 

You will need to be "on guard" for the rest of your life if you actually think you can hold onto her. She will have to see your vigilance daily, weekly.. in all the things you do. She will be watching too, waiting for her oppertunity. Waiting for your guard to drop for a few weeks or months. When it does, she'll be fellating someone in the car, or a stockroom sure as hell.

 

It's the 21st Century. There is no stigma in divorce. Walk away Wives are all the rage. You could be the greatest guy in the world, and at this point she's still going to be looking for those "intangibles" she believes someone else can supply better than you are. Women like your wife have already decided what they want. She just failed in her first attempt. She's gonna try try again, at least the stat's say she will.

 

The only advice I can give you is to not be a martyr. At the first sign of infidelity on her part go nuclear on her. And don't go back. What she has done is literally unforgivable. It's going to hit you down the road. The best you can hope for is to live through it.. because in the fullness of time you will never get over it while you still have teeth in your gums.

 

You must be prepared to defend and protect yourself and your children from her actions, forever. She's proven she cannot be trusted, it takes decades to earn back that trust, if it can be done.

 

I will never again let a woman have the power of happiness over me. I will never get into another situation where I am forced to trust anyone with my happiness. It's hard but it's true. Don't get me wrong, I am willing to share my happiness and my life with someone else. I have no problem with inviting them into my castle to live, and play. I will even give them a key. I just won't put them on the deed. (Locks can be changed).

 

Luck to you, you need it.

[FuzzyDuck]

Thanks LakeSideDream. But I believe, and hope, you are wrong.

 

Like I said, there is a very very longs story behind this, maybe I should get into that a bit. The story behind this is no excuse, believe me, but makes sense.

 

We live in South Africa by the way.

 

I'm gonna keep this short. We are married nearly 10 years now. The first 7 we were extremely happy. 3 years ago we moved from a small town to the huge city, in pursuit of my career dreams. These did not work out, I had to be away in Germany for 6 months before the move. She could not find a job. We became pregnant, and at 6 months we lost the baby, she went into depression. She found a job where she was happy. I still was not happy, got demoted at work, I went into depression. I do not believe in depression, and would not seek help. She made a good freind at work. I encouraged the freindship, because I could see it made her happy. I kept my unhappy feelings to myself, she did not know there was something wrong with me. Her 'freind' at work took advantage of her. She was very insecure in herself, and her body. He saw this, he saw she was vulnerable, and the first bit of interest he showed in her, put her on such a high that she could not say no to him.

 

Short and sweet, alot more to tell though. I don't blame myself at all, but I do feel there was alot more I could have done to prevent this, and that is why I say, knowing this route cause, and knowing when the alarm bells should ring, will help us to have a happy marriage. The love between us was never lost.

It does anger me though that she could not see I was in trouble, even though I was hiding my troubles from her. It does make me angry that as soon as I was in trouble, she found attention somewhere else, because she thought I was not interested. But like I said, we will have a much more open relationship from now on, no feeling, no matter how small, will ever be hidden from each other again.

 

I don't think she realised how much I really loved her. For me to take her back, and try to make things work. I truly do not think she expected this.

 

But believe me, I will be watching very closely. If she is going to allow something like this to happen again, I will allow myself to get hurt by this for that 1 time only, but it will also be over between us. Immediatly.

 

 

 

I also realise that alot of the posts made on this forum are made by people that have been through what I have, and have probably been hurt again, after taking there spouse back. I appreciate the advise and warnings, but I believe the advise is 1 sided. There are many couples who have been through exactly this, and have been able to make things work. Hopefully I can get some advise from such a person. Even if this happens only ounce out of 100 cases.

[LakesideDream]

Thanks LakeSideDream. But I believe, and hope, you are wrong.

 

Like I said, there is a very very longs story behind this, maybe I should get into that a bit. The story behind this is no excuse, believe me, but makes sense.

 

We live in South Africa by the way.

 

I'm gonna keep this short. We are married nearly 10 years now. The first 7 we were extremely happy. 3 years ago we moved from a small town to the huge city, in pursuit of my career dreams. These did not work out, I had to be away in Germany for 6 months before the move. She could not find a job. We became pregnant, and at 6 months we lost the baby, she went into depression. She found a job where she was happy. I still was not happy, got demoted at work, I went into depression. I do not believe in depression, and would not seek help. She made a good freind at work. I encouraged the freindship, because I could see it made her happy. I kept my unhappy feelings to myself, she did not know there was something wrong with me. Her 'freind' at work took advantage of her. She was very insecure in herself, and her body. He saw this, he saw she was vulnerable, and the first bit of interest he showed in her, put her on such a high that she could not say no to him.

 

Short and sweet, alot more to tell though. I don't blame myself at all, but I do feel there was alot more I could have done to prevent this, and that is why I say, knowing this route cause, and knowing when the alarm bells should ring, will help us to have a happy marriage. The love between us was never lost.

It does anger me though that she could not see I was in trouble, even though I was hiding my troubles from her. It does make me angry that as soon as I was in trouble, she found attention somewhere else, because she thought I was not interested. But like I said, we will have a much more open relationship from now on, no feeling, no matter how small, will ever be hidden from each other again.

 

Fuzzy, nice to see you are paying attention. Trouble is you are in the Thrall. Everyone goes through ups and downs, especially when things aren't going along swimmingly. You use "We" a lot, as in "We Got Pregnant"... Gotta ask you a question, Did "We" screw the guy at work? Didn't thinks so.

 

Time to wake up. There is no "WE" anymore. Chances are very slim that there will ever be a "We" between the two of you again. You have to begin the task of being yourself. An individual, who has the ability to make choices for themself, not as a partner in a "We Fantasy". When she was pulling off her panties with the other man, you were the farthest thing from her mind. "We" went down the drain months ago.

 

You might want to start reading OWL's posts. He's been through what you have, is still married, and is making progress after years of work.

[Chrome Barracuda]

Fuzzy understand affairs are like addictions...

 

Sometimes it wont go quietly and even in the aftermath in the reflection of what happened with your spouse you reaaly start asking the question do I want to be with this woman who could emasculate me and embarrass me?

 

You got to understand that some men just dont put up with the bullcrap.

 

And yes I am one of them. I dont like to make excuses especially if she did me wrong. Once it's done. I kinda just dont come back. I havent. Even though at one point I loved that woman. I still remembered how she treated me, that's a hard pill to swallow.

[Owl]

I'm going to give you a different view, Fuzzy.

 

It IS possible to recover a marriage. I've done it. My marriage is WONDERFUL, five years plus past d-day in my own situation. My wife had an emotional affair with a man she'd met online, and damn near left me for him.

 

But...as I've said, our marriage has recovered wonderfully. It's IS possible that yours can too.

 

But as Lakeside has indicated...many don't.

 

It sounds like you're doing a LOT of the right things so far to me. MC was a HUGE HUGE factor in our recovery. So were a number of changes in our priorities and the way we lived.

 

In short...it was a lot of WORK, especially that first year after d-day. It took sustained effort on both our parts to do so.

 

I'd heartily suggest that you read up on stuff over on the marriagebuilders.com website, but be cautious with the use of the forum there...there are a lot of posters there that have never personally recovered from what they've been through.

 

I'd also suggest that you read "Surviving an Affair" by Dr Harley. It can give you a good idea of the steps and stages that things normally go through.

 

Hang in there...take the "doom and gloom" stories seriously, because they're not lying...but I'd also suggest that you remember that marriages can and do recover depending on a lot of factors.

[FuzzyDuck]

Thanks Owl. Very encouraging words. I hear what the others are saying, and I will be very carefull. I have however made the decision to move forward. How exactly, I do not know yet, I still have so many questions and doubts in my mind, but that is what marriage counceling is for.

 

The biggest obstacle I now face is the trust issue. I understand this could take years, but I am prepared for this. The most difficult thing about rebuilding this trust, is because it took me so long to drag the truth out of her. I know she was scared to tell the truth, because she believed that I would dump her immediatly on hearing the truth, most men would have, but I am not most men. So it's only forward from here on in.

[LakesideDream]

Fuzzy, heed Owl's council. He's a wise one, and the only true success story that comes to mind. Most men just do not recover like he has.

 

My opinion on affairs differs with Owl in one major facet. As Owl just wrote, his wife had an "Emotional Affiar". In the current venacular that means his wife had inappropriate conversations, communications etc. with a man, sharing those secrets and privacy's.. but stopped short of having sex, ie. a "Physical Affair". Some men, and most woman here on Loveshack are of the opinion that EA's are just as bad, or worse that PA's. I do not share that opinion.

 

Obviously (to me) most physical affairs have a strong emotional affair component. In my experiance woman form the emotional bond before offering their bodies to a new partner. I'm not talking about a drunken party sex session. I'm talking a romantic / physical affair. To me, a physical affair is much worse because both components are present.

 

That being said, the choice is yours. I do not believe I could ever "get over" the mental images of a woman I love being penetrated by another man, while married, or comitted to me. If you can, and the jury is out, your situation is still very new, more power to you. It will certainly make your recovery an easier one.

 

I just ain't buying what you are selling friend. It sounds to me like you are in the betrayed spouse fog. Like the affair fog your wife was in I believe it's clouding your judgement. Society and our upbringing stresses that men must be strong. We are taught and expected to be hero's when the situation demands it. This doesen't work for many of us.

 

I made it through a war, was wounded 4 times, returned home in a coma that lasted seven days, woke up without the use of my legs for seven weeks. I killed, and directed the killing of hundreds of the enemy... and have slept nightmare free. No "post traumatic stress". The pain a 128 pound woman instilled in me very nearly destroyed me. Severe post traumatic stress, deep depression, even suicidal thoughts. Go figure.

[Church Bells]

I just ain't buying what you are selling friend. It sounds to me like you are in the betrayed spouse fog.

 

FD,

 

I concur with LakesideDream's assessment of your current state of mind. BELIEVE US that this WILL get much harder before it even starts to get better. At about the 6-8 month mark, you WILL be overcome with EXTREME anger ... mostly directed at yourself for what you have allowed yourself to tolerate ... how you have broken your own personal code of conduct by tolerating this level of disrespect.

 

Here's another clue for you to ponder ... look at your mother-in-law for keys to your WW's true character. Your WW's character will mirror the character of the most influential person in her early life ... her MOTHER. IMHO, what you are seeing is NOT an aberation of her character, but the definition of her character that she learned from her MOTHER.

 

Also, if you are still wanting to attempt a meaningful, long term recovery, I would like to emphasize something that Owl wrote:

 

I'd heartily suggest that you read up on stuff over on the marriagebuilders.com website, but be cautious with the use of the forum there...there are a lot of posters there that have never personally recovered from what they've been through.

 

Go to marriagebuilders.com and read the articles and concepts, but AVOID the message boards like the plague. That site has a lot of good information that will be useful in recovery, including their glossary/vocabulary of terms used to communicate about issues that are hard for men to articulate, that will aid in your conversations with your WW.

 

However, the message boards are little more than an INFOMERCIAL to sell books, seminars and weekend getaways with little regard to actually HELPING the BH. Regardless of their claims to the contrary, there are precious few actual RECOVERIES found on the MB forums, and a ton of advice administered by those who have FAILED in the attempt.

 

The cold hard facts are that VERY FEW BH/WW scenarios recover for just the reasons that LakesideDreams has posted. It takes TWO to recover from this, and IMHO, you are the only one trying in your case. Your WW is just placating you until the heat is off, and she can resume her true character ambitions of "trading up" to something bigger and better in her mind.

[redtail]

Fuzzy, this brings up some old, bad memories for me. I too, like you, hope your experiences are different than most of the BS's here. My wife too denied, then denied there was sex, just an EA. Then later admitted to the PA. I too did not want to divorce and hoped we could work it out. I thought I could fix myself and be a better husband for her.

 

But, she got better at acting and hiding the affair. I continued to casually snoop and as it turned out, one night she left her journal out. I read it and found out it was all a lie, I was duped. So I confronted her without saying I read her journal, I just asked, when was the last time she had contact with this guy? Denial. When was the last time they talked? Denial. I said, I read your journal, does that change your answer? She said, how could you do that?

 

So, I hope it's different, but do yourself a favor, and keep your eyes open. Remember, this was her fault, her doing, don't allow the blame to be turned around. If no evidence ever turns up, then that will instill confidence that maybe the marriage can be saved. But if something does, have a plan.

 

Best of luck to you!

[WalkbyFaith]

Who makes phone calls to say your wife is cheating if it is not true/

 

That's how I found out my 1st wife was cheating. There are just some people in the world that have a conscious and don't like to see someone hurt without letting them know about.

 

As for you wanting her back so badly, I hate to say it, but grow a pair of balls man. You don't deserve this crap and although you may not believe it now, you can and will meet someone better if you want to.

[jennie-jennie]

The cold hard facts are that VERY FEW BH/WW scenarios recover for just the reasons that LakesideDreams has posted. It takes TWO to recover from this, and IMHO, you are the only one trying in your case. Your WW is just placating you until the heat is off, and she can resume her true character ambitions of "trading up" to something bigger and better in her mind.

 

Excuse a woman for entering the discussion here, but you men seem to be in agreement with the above statement. Would you say that it is harder for a BH/WW marriage to recover from infidelity than a BW/WH marriage? If so, why? Don't men also want to "trade up" but for other reasons?

[Owl]

I don't wanna detract from the OP's thread, but very quickly, here's my thoughts.

 

Men typically(which doesn't mean always, but usually) cheat for sex.

 

Women typically(again, usually but not always) cheat seeking an improved emotional relationship.

 

Which means that an affair started by an MM is often less likely to be based off a deep emotional relationship...and therefore often much easier for the MM to sever and attempt to rebuild the marriage.

 

The affair started by the WW is typically going to be much more emotionally based...and therefore much more addictive/difficult to end. She's as likely to end the marriage as she is the affair relationship.

 

I agree that affairs conducted by a cheating wife are much less likely to end than one started by a cheating husband for these reasons.

[redtail]

Excuse a woman for entering the discussion here, but you men seem to be in agreement with the above statement. Would you say that it is harder for a BH/WW marriage to recover from infidelity than a BW/WH marriage? If so, why? Don't men also want to "trade up" but for other reasons?

 

Not in my mind, regardless of the reason, it's a serious breach of trust. And ultimately, it's the trust that's the most difficult to repair.