Deception, seduction and "nice"

[Hkizzle]

On the other thread about nice guys saying "nice guys come last", and some women saying "there are no nice guys", I think many people missed the point.

 

First of all I wanted to point out the interesting evolutionary aspect in that biologically women are driven to find strong men that are confident, intelligent (sense of humor is an indication of this), and appear to not need to grovel for a woman's attention (indication the man can attract women easily).

 

The idea for this is that a man that is naturally strong and attractive from a social and personality aspect is more likely to help her and her oppspring survive. It's a selection method inherited from our cavemen ancestor past.

 

A lot of people misunderstood the idea of the thread and said many so called nice guys are pretending to be nice guys. That of course is exactly the opposite of what I meant. What I meant is genuine nice guys have a lower success ratio than guys that use deception to appear as nice.

 

First of all I do not consider myself a nice guy. I have a lot of player friends, I also have female friends that fall for players and I see the damage done. So I do draw the line in that I don't use deception to pretend I'm nice or lead any girls on. But I have noticed this during the couple of years I was playing around..........

 

When I go out with girls on dates very few are up for a casual sexual relationship, I generally walk away after that which is 80% of the time. But if I did pretend to be genuinely interested and nice to the girl I know I could have been a jerk and slept with her.

 

That's exactly what some men do, they know the right things to say and do, and part of the point of my original thread.

 

I think many women, especially younger girls are very bad judge of male character. They are very good at judging when a man's not confident or alpha male enough, and can spot when a man obviously wants to have sex with her and direct about it.

 

But when it comes to true players, they are never honest and direct, direct is totally anti-seductive which is why pick up lines don't work. The good players are good at getting past a woman's defenses because they come off as nice. In other words, the tighter a guy's "game" the less obvious he's actually not the genuine article.

 

Once they get past a woman's natural defensive, and she's emotionally attached, that's when the trouble starts, because then she could potentially find reasons in her own mind reasons why the guy is nice when he's not. Yes I'm aware all this works the other way around too, but because men generally hit on women, and men are more likely to look for ways to get casual sex (women can easily get it if they want). They are more likely to employ certain strategies.

[Thaddeus]

I think many women, especially younger girls are very bad judge of male character. They are very good at judging when a man's not confident or alpha male enough, and can spot when a man obviously wants to have sex with her and direct about it.

 

But when it comes to true players, they are never honest and direct, direct is totally anti-seductive which is why pick up lines don't work. The good players are good at getting past a woman's defenses because they come off as nice. In other words, the tighter a guy's "game" the less obvious he's actually not the genuine article.

Funny you mention this.

 

A couple of weeks ago there was a thread on PUAs (pick-up artists) that ran some 20+ pages . And, as I recall, virtually every woman who posted in the thread said essentially the same thing: PUA-style stuff might work on some women, but it would NEVER work on ME.

 

Others tried to make the point that a good PUA who's on his game is so smooth, so under-the-radar, so unassuming and so unthreatening that even the smartest, most able and confident woman is in danger of falling into his trap.

 

But most of the women posting would have none of it. They insisted - and it even got more than a little heated at times - that PUA techniques only work on women with low self-esteem or women that were somehow damaged.

 

Nothing could be further from the truth, of course. It is precisely the confident, attractive and intelligent woman that's putty in the hands of the PUA who's on his game. The tougher the challenge, the better the manipulation.

 

So it's not just those whose defences are down who can fall prey to the PUA. I've seen it happen, first-hand. It tends to be those who think of themselves as confident, intelligent and smart who are the first to end up on the arm of a PUA. Happens all the time.

[pandagirl]

Umm. Is this thread directed toward my current situation? hahhhaha.

 

Was the guy I was dating really a PUA? From what he told me of this dating history, he isn't. But was that part of the game?

 

I think there is a difference between a PUA who is consciously playing a game, and a person who ACTS like a PUA, but actually just kind of sucks and lacks personal integrity. I think the guy I was dating falls into the latter category.

[Hkizzle]

Lol no I wrote it before your thread I think. But funny you think it is about you Pandagirl.

 

Having said that Thaddeus is right. I haven't even been on this forum before this week and I know what he's talking about.

 

Forget the PUA. The girls I know always think the player friends I have are nice guys. When I mentioned to one of the girls I was close to the guy she was having sex with was the biggest player and seeing two other girls, she was shocked.

 

Women are very bad judge of male character. The guys with good game for some reason women will say those guys are nice even though they're just playing. That does apply to your situation Pandagirl I'm afraid. Although you're walking away from that guy, so good for you.

[Hkizzle]

Put it another way, when I was younger and couldn't attract girls well I was never told I was nice, or heard girls tell each other I was nice.

 

In my late 20's when I didn't think I was a nice guy I had girls that liked me say I was nice.

 

So I think a lot of girls are confusing attraction with nice. Which does make sense in a way because how many people will say......."I like an prick!"

 

Not many, so there's a psychological mechanism in people's heads that alter the way they perceive nice in other people. A lot of that is linked to the hormones dopamine at the beginning, and in a relationship that's gone on for a while it's oxytocin.

 

But again I think some women are bad judges of male character and that's why they fall for jerks in the first place. The annoying thing is many think they judge men perfectly well.

 

Guys on the other hand tend to judge each other better, because we don't feel the attraction and also know the games and strategies we use.

[socialight]

"nice", for all practical purposes, is a meaningless label.