hendersongirl Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 I'm with this guy, we live together, been together almost 3 years, the plan was to marry etc etc. No, we aren't without our issues and problems, but we love each other very much. We are both looking to undertake phds next year, and unfortunately the university we are currently at is not the greatest for my subject, and I have been advised that if I get a phd from here I will have close to 0% chance of being employed afterwards (as an academic). He wants to stay here. His parents are nearby and getting old, he has already travelled the world and lived overseas and doesnt want to move again. I dont particularly care to travel - I just want a decent shot at a decent job. I'm getting pretty good marks this year so I'd like to take the opportunity to get a good phd. We are currently fighting a lot, we are both stressed... But we have gotten through worse. I reeeeally dont want to give my career up for him ONLY TO BREAK UP LATER and reeeeally regret it. But I've always felt it was heartless to break up with someone just for this reason. Love makes compromises, love is more important. I do believe this, and IF I was feeling 100% confident about the relationship I would by all means pursue a phd here and make the best of it. I would kind of rather stay here anyway. Its just... If we break up later - and AT THE MOMENT it feels like we might... I can only imagine how much resentment and regret I will feel having given up a chance at doing great things. I ALSO dont want to break up and go overseas and regret THAT!! If i do that and miss him and feel miserable and horrible and always regret throwing this away for such a selfish reason. HELP!!
utterer of lies Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 Boyfriend or career? That's an easy one: career.
New Again Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 Career. To me, putting a guy you're dating first to that extent is one of the worst things you can ever do. So many reasons for that, but here's just one: if you put him first, and you later break up or divorce, you will be so much worse off. And unfortunately, the chances of the demise of your relationship occurring are very high, statistically. Please put yourself first. **Maybe I shouldn't say that you're putting him first, but the relationship. Whichever it is, don't do it.
Author hendersongirl Posted July 25, 2009 Author Posted July 25, 2009 So I throw away what could be a wonderful life long relationship, the source of all true happiness... For a phd at a university with a slightly better name? I may still not even get a job anywhere. I also may give it up for kids - probably will in a few years. Thanks for your responses... I am swaying that way. The more I think about it the better I feel about it. Plus we just had a huge fight and perhaps its been decided for me. Gosh this is SO MUCH WORK!!!
New Again Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 So I throw away what could be a wonderful life long relationship, the source of all true happiness... For a phd at a university with a slightly better name? I may still not even get a job anywhere. I also may give it up for kids - probably will in a few years. Thanks for your responses... I am swaying that way. The more I think about it the better I feel about it. Plus we just had a huge fight and perhaps its been decided for me. Gosh this is SO MUCH WORK!!! There are plenty of people to have wonderful relationships with. I also don't believe that romantic relationships are or should be the source of all true happiness. Since you do feel that way I can see why this is such a difficult decision for you.
utterer of lies Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 So I throw away what could be a wonderful life long relationship, the source of all true happiness... For a phd at a university with a slightly better name? I may still not even get a job anywhere. I also may give it up for kids - probably will in a few years. Thanks for your responses... I am swaying that way. The more I think about it the better I feel about it. Plus we just had a huge fight and perhaps its been decided for me. Gosh this is SO MUCH WORK!!! When you are unsure - why should YOU give up your career for him and not the other way around? He has his priorities as you have yours. Don't think you are the bad guy in this. He 'doesn't want to...' means 'you are not important enough for him to...' It's as simple as that.
boogieboy Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 You wanna get a phd, that you wont find work with, just to give up your career to be a stay at home mom in a few years anyway? Whats the point of that? You might as well stay with him, start having kids now and skip the PHD.
Isolde Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 I disagree with the others to some extent. I disagree that career always comes first in life. Yes, career generally comes above someone you're simply "dating", but you two have been together for a while and there are plans to marry. Also, it does not sound like you are in your early twenties, but at a stage where you want to settle down. You answered the question yourself. Love makes compromises. Find a domestic program; do a master's abroad for 2 years and then come back; or find a different career track.
Trialbyfire Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 Why can't you have both? An LDR and also getting your PhD. If a relationship deteriorates or fractures through distance, it wasn't that strong to begin with. Education is no-lose, unless you're buried in a mountain of student loan debt. If not, get the education.
Isolde Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 I also can't think of a reason why the OP needs to go abroad to find a good PhD program. Many good programs are based in your own country but you will simply travel abroad for a year for your dissertation or whatever.
Isolde Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 Slight edit of my OP here. I can see that just going for your dream of a PhD abroad might ultimately be more satisfying for you. However, everyone's knee jerk reaction is to only think of career. Why? This guy might be the guy you want to marry. In my eyes, that is a factor in this decision too. I mean, people aren't THAT disposable!! LDRs are tricky. PhD students don't tend to have enough money to make frequent trips to visit home, either. A big part of this depends on where you live now and where you would be moving. All I'm saying is rather than panic, investigate options and try to take the perspective that when there's a will there's a way. Career will not give you all the happiness in the world any more than a relationship can. This is why I think it's at least worth a try to look for a compromise.
Ariadne Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 if I get a phd from here I will have close to 0% chance of being employed afterwards (as an academic). That doesn't make sense to me at all. If you get a PhD you should be able to get a job anywhere. Aside from that, given the circumstances of your relationship going from bad to worse... Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea for you to move away and do the PhD somewhere else, that way you'll know if the love was true.
carhill Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 OP, examine the totality of your decision-making process to ensure it is sound (some here have offered alternatives) and give us your BF's perspective on that process. How does he feel about your career path? What's his perspective on your relationship dynamic? I'm assuming, since his parents are 'old', he is not young himself, so either you are older as well, or he is much older than you. I didn't think to consider my mom's 'age' until I was in my late 30's and she was well into her 70's and made a decision similar to your BF. How do you feel about his decision? My best advice would be to explore *all* educational options and pick the one which works best for you. You may not have explored all the options yet. Once you're done and have picked, bring it to him and listen to and accept his perspective. What will be will be
Trialbyfire Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 Oh, one thing. Like anything else worthwhile, getting your PhD requires dedication and focus. If you're not dedicated to it, you're flushing money down the toilet. I only got my MSc. and flaked from going any further, since it didn't really help my career path and truth be told, I was sick of school by that time.
Ruby Slippers Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 Career. In my early 20s, I made a very stupid decision to prioritize my relationship in the States over an excellent career invitation to work as a full-time resident designer in an experimental theater in Amsterdam. I regret that horrible decision to this day.
Toasted Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 Have to agree with career. Although I don't really understand the need to go abroad? If you have the oppourtunity to get a PhD from a good school you should go for it.
sb129 Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 It kinda sounds like neither of you are THAT invested in the R anyway. I started my R with my H as a LDR- it wasn't ideal but circumstances dictated that if we wanted to be together it had to be under those conditions. The LDR wasn't always easy, but it was a damn site easier than the prev R with the wrong man who lived in the same town as me. If you give up a good career opportunity for him without being totally invested in a long term R with him, then you will resent him for it in the long run, and that in turn will be detrimental to your R.
hoping2heal Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 So I throw away what could be a wonderful life long relationship, the source of all true happiness... For a phd at a university with a slightly better name? I may still not even get a job anywhere. I also may give it up for kids - probably will in a few years. Thanks for your responses... I am swaying that way. The more I think about it the better I feel about it. Plus we just had a huge fight and perhaps its been decided for me. Gosh this is SO MUCH WORK!!! If this is a wonderful lifelong relationship, and the source of all true happiness; it isn't going to end just because you decide to go long distance for awhile. Are you familiar with Island Girl on here? Now what she has, THAT is lifelong relationship and true happiness. Don't throw away your future if you need to do this to feel a sense of personal accomplishment; you're boyfriend isn't choosing to do that and you shouldn't either, and if you two really have what it takes to be a lifelong relationship making that choice isn't going to end it for you. SHOULD it fold; then it's just as well, because if it was that strong and lifelong happiness material it wouldn't fold under something like the distance for awhile.
Brady_to_Moss Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 No question career. Career has to do with your life and YOU before anyone else has to be happy. If i was dating and it had to end due to career...be over in the snap of my fingers.
Isolde Posted July 26, 2009 Posted July 26, 2009 This topic has really made me think. I agree that getting settled into a career should happen before settling down with a partner. However, even the strongest of relationships will run into hard times when one partner is across the ocean for five to seven years (which is how long a phd program takes). This isn't just a year or two years we're talking about. So, it is complicated. Regardless of whether she stays with her BF or not, it is a huge huge decision. Don't get me wrong, I am also leaning towards career, but you know, this isn't just about bf vs. career, it's about what the OP wants from her life. It's just NOT as simple as "career is more important than love." Rather, it's about making conscious personal choices based on the idea that life is a series of stages and there is a right time for everything. For example, I would advise someone my age to put career ahead of a R without hesitation. If someone is in their thirties, and the relationship is very serious (the OP did not specify whether she is engaged), then it does become more complicated. Then again I guess if they are that serious a LDR might work.
Author hendersongirl Posted July 26, 2009 Author Posted July 26, 2009 Ok, to answer a few questions... I am 22, he is 33. Yes, I can do a PhD here, but the employment rate is near 0% (into an academic university department). None of the (6) universities in my country are ranked in the top 100, and I would have a pretty good chance of getting into one that is.. I'm talking about Oxford, Cambridge... I'm not talking about a USA programme - as I understand it your tertiary system is different than most places in the world. It will be 3 years. I havent talked to him about this recently because we have been so stressed.. It will just fire up the stress.. Long distance is an absolute last resort in my mind. I would find it horrible, unbearable. Especially at this current time in our relationship as we are going through some trust issues and working on our relationship together. Hope this helps?
Scottdmw Posted July 26, 2009 Posted July 26, 2009 OP, sounds like you are have a tough decision to make. Only you can decide what’s right. For what it’s worth, it often seems to me like this site has a strong bias towards breaking up relationships. If anything is the slightest bit wrong, everyone is quick to jump on the bandwagon and say you can do better somewhere else. It has been my personal experience, and the experience of several of my friends, that it's not always that easy. You leave one relationship thinking it will be easy to replace it somewhere else, and then years go by. You start making compromises about who you're willing to be with. You start getting older and realizing that you don't have as many choices as you used to it. I know at least two women who did get Ph.D.s in the field they loved, and ended up telling me that they regretted it because it made it very difficult to make a relationship work. Both have been single for several years, and they are not unattractive. A woman gets near the end of a Ph.D. and she faces a situation where she is going to have to move to wherever the job is. Someone looking for an academic position doesn't really have a choice, you take whatever is offered. So, for that final year of the Ph.D., and of the year or two of Post doc, you are in a very bad place to start a new relationship. Not too many men want to get involved in a long-term relationship with a woman who is going to have to move within the next year. I personally consider that a strong potential dealbreaker no matter what the woman's other good qualities. It's just too much trouble. Out of three of my friends who've recently gotten Ph.D.'s, they got job offers in Mobile Alabama, White Cloud Minnesota, and Bloomington Indiana respectively (as I remember it). None of these places are bustling metropolises with large populations of singles. They are very difficult places to meet someone, and these three of my friends are now basically stuck with that. They didn't want to move to those places, but after you go to the trouble of getting a Ph.D. most people feel like they have to take whatever job they can. My male friend is in an okay position, at least he has years left to find someone. If you are truly interested in having children, as my two women friends with Ph.D.'s are, realize that by the time you get an academic position your clock will definitely be ticking. You may end up in a relatively small town with very few men who can equal your career achievements who are still single. I know that it's terribly unfair, but I've really gotten a sense from these two rather close friends of mine that they wish someone had sat them down and told them these things before they made their decisions. A good relationship is precious. It is not easily or quickly replaced, at least not for many people. Think about that, and think about whether you really need a Ph.D. from a certain school or an academic position to be happy with your life, or whether there might be something else you could do that would give you the same level of personal satisfaction. Think carefully about what it is about an academic position you find desirable. Money? Status? Flexible work schedule? Interesting work? Not in an office? Teaching? Making a difference? There is almost certainly a way to get the same thing somewhere else. It sounds like you've been fighting a lot with your boyfriend lately. Realize that from his perspective, he sees a strong possibility that you will leave him. That kind of thing puts a strain on any relationship, guaranteed, no matter how loving the couple is. It doesn't necessarily mean that there is anything wrong with the relationship itself. Best wishes, I know that it’s not an easy situation one way or the other. Scott
sb129 Posted July 26, 2009 Posted July 26, 2009 Are you in NZ? HG- after the rest of your information, I would say GO FOR IT. Don't stay behind for him, and don't turn down the opportunity of studying abroad to stay here. You will kick yourself forever if you do- its OK for him, he has already done his travelling etc, but to hold you back from doing yours will breed resentment and regret. The experience of doing your PhD at a top 100 university will be invaluable. I left NZ at 23, and came back at the age of 30 with much more maturity, life and career experience, and I did a postgrad diploma while away which made me far more employable here due to the prestige of the university I did it at. I wouldn't change a thing- best thing I ever did. I grew up, learned to appreciate my own country, learned alot, and had a great time doing it. You guys are at totally different stages of your lives, and while some people make it work, I don't know if it would for you.
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