NC isn't working - and a bit of karma showed up today

[MWC_LifeBeginsAt40]

It was good for a couple of weeks but because we work closely together, it was harder than we thought. NC doesn't mean your feelings change, not one bit. There are no signs of his M reconciling though, MM still thinks his original plan is in the works... resolution by end of summer, and BS is looking at houses. We aren't guaranteed to be together so today was a mistake. If things are to 'be' then I want a real beginning of a relationship, hence the break from the affair.

 

Rewind... we were last "together" almost two months ago. We really backed off and we slowly ended up about where we were a year ago, before the full-blown affair started. Just mild flirting, joking around, being friends, listening to each other.

 

But we ended up going for lunch today because he is going on vacation and ten days was going to be hard to bear. So we had sex outdoors, and tonight I found a woodtick stuck in my leg. Ugh! Yuck! I panicked and pulled it out and it popped out of my hand. It took a while but I found the bugger crawling on the bath mat. I put it in the sink and grabbed a lighter and burned the little flucker! I still have the heeby jeebies! I thought tick season was over!

[White Flower]

It was good for a couple of weeks but because we work closely together, it was harder than we thought. NC doesn't mean your feelings change, not one bit. There are no signs of his M reconciling though, MM still thinks his original plan is in the works... resolution by end of summer, and BS is looking at houses. We aren't guaranteed to be together so today was a mistake. If things are to 'be' then I want a real beginning of a relationship, hence the break from the affair.

 

Rewind... we were last "together" almost two months ago. We really backed off and we slowly ended up about where we were a year ago, before the full-blown affair started. Just mild flirting, joking around, being friends, listening to each other.

 

But we ended up going for lunch today because he is going on vacation and ten days was going to be hard to bear. So we had sex outdoors, and tonight I found a woodtick stuck in my leg. Ugh! Yuck! I panicked and pulled it out and it popped out of my hand. It took a while but I found the bugger crawling on the bath mat. I put it in the sink and grabbed a lighter and burned the little flucker! I still have the heeby jeebies! I thought tick season was over!

Aw, it coulda happened to anyone who had sex outdoors, not just APs. But you saw it, took care of it, and it's all good now.

 

How is your heart?

[Art_Critic]

You are just getting sucked back into his web.. it doesn't change.. his web that is.. it's all about deception and lies..

 

2 weeks ago you wrote this thread..

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t194561/

 

You talked about closure.. well..

Right now you could use some self respect..IMO

[jj33]

MWC - how do you see this. You said you were in NC but then you said you couldnt bear the thought of 10 days away from each other. That is NOT NC.

 

NC is not flirting etc. It is not talking except to the extent necessary for work.

 

I think you need to accept the fact that you were not in NC.

 

Perhaps you were simply not having sex with him for the past few weeks.

 

You have now slipped on that one.

 

How are you planning to play this when he gets back?

 

Are you going to continue the A and see if he leaves? Are you going to try not to have sex and again and leave it at an EA for now?

[MWC_LifeBeginsAt40]

The first few weeks of NC was going well. But every meeting together seemed to have this dark cloud hanging over us. We wouldn't talk about things, yet there were also unanswered questions with us and things we both wanted to say.

 

We've been coworker friends for a long time, and we decided it was easier to not walk on eggshells, and try and be happy and positive in our meetings and not worry so much. We both agreed the A was over and if we started anything it would be new.

 

We know that yesterday was a setback. He says he's not trying to lead me on, but I know in a way he is trying to keep me hanging on. And I know it is because he is in love with me.

 

I know this is bad, affairs are bad. I know she is hurting and he can't tell her the truth. She emailed me earlier this week and I didn't reply. I/we don't want her to think this is all about the A. There were alot of issues before the A that caused their marriage to be where it's been for the last 3-4 years. That is what he wants her to understand.

 

They've been talking and each of them is trying to figure out what they want to do. She says she's done if he can't commit 110% and quit his job. He says he can't. So she say's "I'm done" and then calms down and says "well, maybe we could just ....blah blah.... maybe in a year... blah blah " and he goes back into his apathy routine.

 

So they're going on this trip to visit his relatives, to get away, driving, long hours, together, in the car. I'm sure there will be lots of talking and I will not be asking for details when he gets back but I'm sure I will hear some. We talked again before the end of the day yesterday, and agreed we have to go back to some distance between us until his situation is resolved.... and then take things slowly or move on.

 

See, I am in love with him. I want a future with him. I will wait for that as far as my lovelife is concerned. Why would I look for a new relationship with someone else? In the meantime, my life plan is the same. I am working hard at my job, being a mother, going to the gym, keeping my house in order and spending time with friends and family. That is where my focus will be, but I still know where my heart is, and where his heart is. I still dream and hope.

 

Anyway, if this is what I want, knowing I may not get it, I still have to protect my heart. That doesn't mean finding a new man, it just means keeping some distance until he figures things out and is s-i-n-g-l-e!

[jj33]

Honey hes not ready to leave. If she says if he cant do x then why does he entertain the well maybe... why?

 

Because he doesnt want the marriage to b over.

 

If she knows and he wants to leave, he can leave. hes an adult, shes an adult.

 

he is still leaving the decision to HER. he isnt standing firm on his decision to divorce. Why is that after all these months? Because he isnt ready to leave.

 

 

 

There is NOTHING stopping him from leaving.

[bentnotbroken]

She has accepted and is content with her role. Evidence, she had sex in the woods and got a tick to boot. That is not showing respect for herself or his wife. She is where she wants to be.

[PhoenixRise]

Finding a tick on your body after a sexual romp outside is not Karma. Getting lyme disease as a result of the tick bite MIGHT be Karma, but since you found the critter early, it probaly won't be a problem.

 

Does the wife have some diagnosed mental or emotional problem that prevents MM from telling her he wants out of the marriage. I am not even talking about admitting the affair, just that he wants a divorce?

 

They don't have children so why can't he just stop messing with her head and tell her?

 

AND they are going on vacation together??

 

MWC you had sex with the man on the eve of his 10 day vacation with his wife to insulate him from even the possibility of him having any true intimacy with his wife while they are on their vacation.

 

I hope your MM does enact his master plan and get out of the marriage. The sooner the better.

[White Flower]

Finding a tick on your body after a sexual romp outside is not Karma. Getting lyme disease as a result of the tick bite MIGHT be Karma, but since you found the critter early, it probaly won't be a problem.

 

Does the wife have some diagnosed mental or emotional problem that prevents MM from telling her he wants out of the marriage. I am not even talking about admitting the affair, just that he wants a divorce?

 

They don't have children so why can't he just stop messing with her head and tell her?

 

AND they are going on vacation together??

 

MWC you had sex with the man on the eve of his 10 day vacation with his wife to insulate him from even the possibility of him having any true intimacy with his wife while they are on their vacation.

 

I hope your MM does enact his master plan and get out of the marriage. The sooner the better.

Just for the record, many many many MM have sex with their OWs on the eve of a vacation. It does not insulate anything for a man because he is a man. Most men don't 'fill up' and hold off for a while the way women can. They just keep filling up wherever they are, sadly. And then there are the MMs who truly will get nothing from the W while on vacation so in their mind they definitely need to connect with the OW before leaving.

 

And the sex is usually frantic crazy upon return.

[PhoenixRise]

Just for the record, many many many MM have sex with their OWs on the eve of a vacation. It does not insulate anything for a man because he is a man. Most men don't 'fill up' and hold off for a while the way women can. They just keep filling up wherever they are, sadly. And then there are the MMs who truly will get nothing from the W while on vacation so in their mind they definitely need to connect with the OW before leaving.

 

And the sex is usually frantic crazy upon return.

 

 

I am sure all of this is true White Flower.

 

I was not talking about all MM everywhere in every situation. I was talking about THIS situation. OP had backed off the physical part of their relationship for two months but they still had lots of contact at work and they saw each other every day. I think OP wanted to make sure MM "remembered" the passion they shared now that he would be away on a 10 day vacation with his wife.

 

His wife who he is busily gaslighting that he WANTS the marriage according to some of the OP other posts. So I doubt that he will be getting nothing from her while they are on vacation together.

 

AND for the record. I am sure they have passion. I can even say they may fall into each other's arms when he returns. I can even say that MWC was probaly not the only one with a deep down unterior motive. This sex before the vacation also helps keep her on the hook for MM.

[Mr. Lucky]

And then there are the MMs who truly will get nothing from the W while on vacation so in their mind they definitely need to connect with the OW before leaving.

White Flower, don't you think that, at least in this case, the wife is somewhat justified in being guarded as to what she gives knowing that her H is sleeping with someone else?

 

Mr. Lucky

[MistyK]

White Flower, don't you think that, at least in this case, the wife is somewhat justified in being guarded as to what she gives knowing that her H is sleeping with someone else?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

 

I don't think WF meant the W would be holding out. I think she meant that the MM would not have sex with his W out of loyalty to the OW. It DOES happen, albeit rarely.

[Gamine]

Just for the record, many many many MM have sex with their OWs on the eve of a vacation. It does not insulate anything for a man because he is a man. Most men don't 'fill up' and hold off for a while the way women can. They just keep filling up wherever they are, sadly. And then there are the MMs who truly will get nothing from the W while on vacation so in their mind they definitely need to connect with the OW before leaving.

 

And the sex is usually frantic crazy upon return.

 

As bizarre as this might sound, I have read on infidelity forums how the sexual activity between a WS and the BS increased dramatically during the A. Some write that they were surprised by the increased sexual desire by the WS as it seemingly came out of nowhere. Even stranger, some BS's wrote that their WS who was not previously 'that interested' wanted sex from their BS several times each day. It is as if the A fueled the WS's sexuality. I've read many infidelity forum posts that even speak on the subject of the 'vacations'. Some BS's wrote that they had incessant sex while on vacation with the WS and were therefore surprised (later after D'day) that there was texting and phone calls to the OW/OM while on vacation because the WS was so romantic.

 

Go figure.

[Gamine]

I don't think WF meant the W would be holding out. I think she meant that the MM would not have sex with his W out of loyalty to the OW. It DOES happen, albeit rarely.

 

MistyK, my husband made that 'promise' to the OW and she to him. As his spouse I can attest to the fact that the 'promise' wasn't upheld. This is something that the OW learned of at some point and was strangely 'jealous' of me, the spouse. Go figure to this one as well....

[delirious]

As bizarre as this might sound, I have read on infidelity forums how the sexual activity between a WS and the BS increased dramatically during the A. Some write that they were surprised by the increased sexual desire by the WS as it seemingly came out of nowhere. Even stranger, some BS's wrote that their WS who was not previously 'that interested' wanted sex from their BS several times each day. It is as if the A fueled the WS's sexuality. I've read many infidelity forum posts that even speak on the subject of the 'vacations'. Some BS's wrote that they had incessant sex while on vacation with the WS and were therefore surprised (later after D'day) that there was texting and phone calls to the OW/OM while on vacation because the WS was so romantic.

 

Go figure.

I'll Go Figure this one. For a start if BS wants sex with w more, it is purely because he is getting constant erections thinking about OW. Obviously. I have heard this many times on LS that BS gloat that their sex life was better and 'we had sex all the time and it was great.' Time to put a myth to bed (excuse the pun).

In the first month of my A, I wanted sex more often with H, for the same reason. I felt much more attractive and sexy. Double/treble that for men. NOw I will ignore the gunfire which will follow.

[Mino]

As bizarre as this might sound, I have read on infidelity forums how the sexual activity between a WS and the BS increased dramatically during the A. Some write that they were surprised by the increased sexual desire by the WS as it seemingly came out of nowhere. Even stranger, some BS's wrote that their WS who was not previously 'that interested' wanted sex from their BS several times each day. It is as if the A fueled the WS's sexuality. I've read many infidelity forum posts that even speak on the subject of the 'vacations'. Some BS's wrote that they had incessant sex while on vacation with the WS and were therefore surprised (later after D'day) that there was texting and phone calls to the OW/OM while on vacation because the WS was so romantic.

 

Go figure.

well thats easy to explain. CS needs to keep up the appearance at home. I mean wouldn't you think ist strange and something is up if he didnt want any sex? So, cause he is getting great sex from ow, he does not want to "alarm" the BW. Hense the sex, Why is it so great ? Well, LOL he sure is LEARNING and expirencing a whole lot of new MOVES:D So I guess BS benifits from his A too!

[Mino]

I'll Go Figure this one. For a start if BS wants sex with w more, it is purely because he is getting constant erections thinking about OW. Obviously. I have heard this many times on LS that BS gloat that their sex life was better and 'we had sex all the time and it was great.' Time to put a myth to bed (excuse the pun).

In the first month of my A, I wanted sex more often with H, for the same reason. I felt much more attractive and sexy. Double/treble that for men. NOw I will ignore the gunfire which will follow.

or we can add in that maybe BS is also feeling like something is not right, that he may have an A going, so she puts more efffort into the sex, hoping to get his full attention again.

[MWC_LifeBeginsAt40]

I am 99% sure that sex is not happening between them. He even joked that the sex was so I wouldn't cave in and have sex with some guy from the bar. Of course then I joked that now he wouldn't have sex with her. Every time I bring that up, he just wrinkles up his nose and says he just "can't" get excited about her. He hugs her and it feels like his mom. That's the only affection he can give her as far as I know. (as far as I know).

 

I didn't remember joking that I would be picking up guys, but in any case, he is not sexually attracted to his W in any way, and she knows we did "something". Her friends try to tell her "c'mon, for SURE he slept with her" but she believes what she wants to believe.

 

He doesn't want to stay in the M. I, and others, have asked him and told him why he shouldn't be there. He says "I don't know!!!" He sees the pain this is causing her, and feels bad, and he is the type of guy to avoid all negativity and just keep the peace. But he is hoping she leaves.

 

Yes, I know these are warning signs if I ever want a future with him. He was the first one to day that all issues get put on the table, and discussed. Which is good, but will be alot of work, because I too am one to keep the peace.

 

He won't be texting me while he is gone, we have been good that way. He is visiting relatives, and from his past few vacations, I can tell you he will be an a-hole to her, visiting with HIS family and leaving her to chat with the women or read a book in their hotel room alone.

 

Funny, I got a bit sad today, thinking what if I don't end up with him? Then I thought back to a few weeks ago, when I was daydreaming about meeting my true soulmate, and spending my life with him (what's left of it). And then I felt that I really have nothing to lose. While I miss him, and don't know what will happen, I am working on a better me, and whether the better me is with him or someone else, it will be all good.

[jj33]

MWC. I know you love this guy but there are HUGE warning signs and you seem to see them as a vote for YOUR TEAM. This is not a competition. This is a marriage.

 

Either he wants to stay in it or he doesnt. He is not trading in one car for another.

 

1. The fact that you thought you were in NC and then had to have sex even as a joke to keep each other on tap is silly.

 

2. The fact that he is so torn up about leaving should tell you volumes. He isnt ready. My guess is if she doesnt ditch him you will be writing the same things in a year.

 

3. You relish the fact that he will be an a-hole to her? Thats horrible. Wait til he treats you taht way.

 

The thing is, right now its all a fantasy. When you and he are together, it will be perfect. The thing is, he will still be him. And the way he behaves in relatoinships IS the way he behaves with her.

 

Remember, he loved her once too. Enough to marry her.

 

You need to walk away from this. And if he ever leaves, if I were you I would want to see some proof that he had evaluated his behavior in the marriage and seen how WRONG it was. Otherwise history is destined to repeat itself. Not necessarily the cheating, but the horrible passive agressive way he treats other people in general.

 

You are caught up in a massive fantasy right now. I hope it works out for you but the signs are not good.

 

And I know what its like to work with someone you used to have an affair with.

 

Its been a long time now but at the beginning it cut like a knife. Having to be at small meetings and gatherings and look at him across the table and not laugh and joke with him. It was tough. But its doable. If what you really want is to be as close to NC as possible.

 

But as Bent so wisely said, that is apparently not what you want.

 

If you really want a future with this guy, you are going about it the wrong way.

 

And for you to tell him why he needs to leave hte marriage? WHY would you EVER do that other than to say you need to leave if you want to be with me. Im not going to cotinue to be the other woman.

 

Its his marriage not yours. Whether or not YOU believe he should leave is meaningless. And hes proving that by staying with his wife. Im always astounded that people in an affair will tell the MP why they should leave their marriage. Unless there is real abuse going on, how self serving is that? I wont continue on this line of thought but I find it astounding.

 

I hate to be harsh but I hate to see you deluding yourself.

 

You will only be with this man if his wife dumps him. that may be ok with you, but its a long ride and she doesnt seem to want to go anywhere. And your relationship will deteriorate as you become more frustrated with him. So no matter what the outcome. You do yourself a favor by stepping back.

[fooled once]

I think OP wanted to make sure MM "remembered" the passion they shared now that he would be away on a 10 day vacation with his wife.

 

I totally agree.

 

I am 99% sure that sex is not happening between them. He even joked that the sex was so I wouldn't cave in and have sex with some guy from the bar. Of course then I joked that now he wouldn't have sex with her. Every time I bring that up, he just wrinkles up his nose and says he just "can't" get excited about her. He hugs her and it feels like his mom. That's the only affection he can give her as far as I know. (as far as I know).

 

I didn't remember joking that I would be picking up guys, but in any case, he is not sexually attracted to his W in any way, and she knows we did "something". Her friends try to tell her "c'mon, for SURE he slept with her" but she believes what she wants to believe.

 

He doesn't want to stay in the M. I, and others, have asked him and told him why he shouldn't be there. He says "I don't know!!!" He sees the pain this is causing her, and feels bad, and he is the type of guy to avoid all negativity and just keep the peace. But he is hoping she leaves.

 

Yes, I know these are warning signs if I ever want a future with him. He was the first one to day that all issues get put on the table, and discussed. Which is good, but will be alot of work, because I too am one to keep the peace.

 

He won't be texting me while he is gone, we have been good that way. He is visiting relatives, and from his past few vacations, I can tell you he will be an a-hole to her, visiting with HIS family and leaving her to chat with the women or read a book in their hotel room alone.

 

Funny, I got a bit sad today, thinking what if I don't end up with him? Then I thought back to a few weeks ago, when I was daydreaming about meeting my true soulmate, and spending my life with him (what's left of it). And then I felt that I really have nothing to lose. While I miss him, and don't know what will happen, I am working on a better me, and whether the better me is with him or someone else, it will be all good.

 

MWC - you don't really have ANY idea what goes on during their vacations. He isn't going to tell you he is screwing her. He doesn't want to lose you so he is going to tell you what he knows you want to hear. He does care about you. And he isn't going to risk losing that by telling you he is having sex with her.

 

I think you are going to end up alone and waiting and I think you deserve better.

 

But only you can change it. He is a wimp for wanting "her" to leave the marriage. If HE TRULY WANTED A LIFE WITH YOU he would leave her. NOTHING is holding him back. That is why I don't get why OW hang onto men who have - in my view - NOTHING keeping them from staying.

 

He says he doesn't love her.

 

He says she is more like a mom figure to him.

 

He tells you he isn't having sex with her.

 

He tells you all these things; yet he stays.

 

Only YOU can decide how much you are going to put up with. I think you intended on having sex with him before he left so he would remember the passion, the excitement. You don't like that they are going to be having long talks in the car. You don't like that they are visiting family and being the loving married couple. I get that; what I don't get is why you don't value yourself more than to sit around and wait for him to get back and wait for him to get a divorce, and wait for him, and wait for him, and wait for him.

[jj33]

And as for believing sex isnt going on between them - remember who is doing the reporting. The same guy whose wife supposedly believes hes not sleeping with ou.

 

And she WANTS to save hte marriage and he is a peace keeper. If she initiates do you REALLy think he will say no?

 

Please... wake up.

[MWC_LifeBeginsAt40]

3. You relish the fact that he will be an a-hole to her? Thats horrible. Wait til he treats you taht way.

 

The thing is, right now its all a fantasy. When you and he are together, it will be perfect. The thing is, he will still be him. And the way he behaves in relatoinships IS the way he behaves with her.

 

Remember, he loved her once too. Enough to marry her.

Oh no, I think it is terrible how he is treating her and not being honest about his feelings for her. Before I read the last line above, I was thinking no, he never felt about her how he feels about me. And the only reason I believe him is because I never felt this way about my H when I married him, or any guy I was in a relationship with for that matter, and I have had 3 others that lasted 6 yrs, 1 yr and 1.5 yrs besides my M.

 

And for you to tell him why he needs to leave the marriage? WHY would you EVER do that other than to say you need to leave if you want to be with me. Im not going to cotinue to be the other woman.

 

I do challenge his decisions sometimes, and try to get him to tell me what he is thinking. But I am not telling him why he should leave. I did tell him the next time we had sex would be if he was single and we'd be in a real relationship, with dates, and not just sex, and he agreed...and then ooops (Friday lunch). I have asked him why he is there, and we both agree it sucks. And he told me the others asked him the same thing.

 

When he told me he was going on this trip, it was like he had it planned for a while, and I only found out about it a week before. This made me feel crappy both that he kept it from me, and why why why would he go with her? Then he said that she asked him Are we still going on that trip? All he had to say was No, I'm going alone. Neither of them wants to go by the sounds of it, but everything is so up in the air, they just went anyway. He knows it will be uncomfortable, and I know he will avoid any talk on the A subject unless she brings it up.

 

You will only be with this man if his wife dumps him. that may be ok with you, but its a long ride and she doesnt seem to want to go anywhere.

 

You are exactly right on that point. That does not make me feel good. It's not okay that she has to dump him for him to be with me.

[datura_noir]

MWC, I really think you would benefit by reading the book "What Is He Thinking?".

In it, it lays out the 12 (yes 12!!) stages of a marriage/commitment and what a man goes through.

 

He really needs to explore his marriage without you waiting in the wings. Chop it off llike a dead limb (I know, easier said than done), and move on.

 

(((( ))))

[whichwayisup]

Question is, who goes on a 10 day holiday with their spouse if they're really planning on breaking up? I also don't know any couples who go on holidays and not have sex either. Sorry.. You were better off in NC mode.

 

That does not make me feel good. It's not okay that she has to dump him for him to be with me.

 

So you'll "win" him by default. IF she ends the marriage - Not by his choice. And, we all know he does have a choice here, yet it seems like he doesn't want to be the bad guy in anyone's eyes..And, he KNOWS you're going to take him reguardless of who ends the marriage. That much he knows, hense the recent contact.

[MWC_LifeBeginsAt40]

Question is, who goes on a 10 day holiday with their spouse if they're really planning on breaking up? I also don't know any couples who go on holidays and not have sex either. Sorry.. You were better off in NC mode.

 

So you'll "win" him by default. IF she ends the marriage - Not by his choice. And, we all know he does have a choice here, yet it seems like he doesn't want to be the bad guy in anyone's eyes..And, he KNOWS you're going to take him reguardless of who ends the marriage. That much he knows, hense the recent contact.

 

Yes, datura noir, easier said than done.

 

WWIU, I try to understand all of this as well.

 

I'm not trying to win anything. I know it could take a long time before we develop a normal relationship. I wonder what the difference is how he becomes single. As long as he is single, I can be with him. I have to be more patient, and stop being so damned understanding ... either that or stop talking to him. Blaaaaahhhh this is tough. and I want to just fast forward.