Trialbyfire Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 TBF, I have to ask about your comment as to Thadd's posts sounding misogynistic - maybe I'm a bit blind here, but it seems to me that most (I am trying really hard to practice what I preach about saying "all", "none" or any other overgeneralization ) of his posts seem to be more toward the fact that he likes women. Could you clarify what you meant?Some of his posts appear to lack respect for women as people. There's a sense of paternalism v. equality. While I agree that men and women are different, they're equal as people, in their entirety. I can't explain it better than that.
EddieN Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 Some of his posts appear to lack respect for women as people. There's a sense of paternalism v. equality. While I agree that men and women are different, they're equal as people, in their entirety. I can't explain it better than that. I think you're making an issue out of something that isn't existent, and I'm not sure why. Thad makes very insightful posts, and I haven't detected even a hint of misogyny. I agree with HsMomma - he loves women.
HsMomma Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 I'm not sure I'd call his posts misogynistic, but he does seem to generalize women as being overall b*tchy whiners. For example (obviously he's saying this with sarcasm): http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2291907&postcount=135 Thanks, SG - obviously, I hadn't seen that...does seem to be in the category of "Things that make you say hmmmmmmm"
HsMomma Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 Some of his posts appear to lack respect for women as people. There's a sense of paternalism v. equality. While I agree that men and women are different, they're equal as people, in their entirety. I can't explain it better than that. As I said to StarGazer, I obviously haven't read all (and maybe just not enough) of the OP's posts to have seen it. And, I agree with you about people being equal regardless of gender. Thanks for responding.
zicke Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 Thaddeus, there's a strong element of misogyny in some of your posts. Do women threaten you? Do you have any respect for women, as people? I was JUST COMING in here to post just that! I get the feeling that Thaddeus doesn't like or respect women very much, even though he seems to want one a lot.
Trialbyfire Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 I think you're making an issue out of something that isn't existent, and I'm not sure why. Thad makes very insightful posts, and I haven't detected even a hint of misogyny. I agree with HsMomma - he loves women.Loving women and having respect for and liking them, are different things. As previously stated, this was in reference to "some" not "all" of his posts.
Trialbyfire Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 Having said all that, I'd like to apologize to Thaddeus for bringing this up. What I didn't intend to do, was to get people jumping all over him, just for him to examine some of his posts and realize how they come across. I do respect and enjoy many of Thaddeus's threads and posts and hope that he continues posting as such.
Author Thaddeus Posted July 24, 2009 Author Posted July 24, 2009 I'm not sure I'd call his posts misogynistic, but he does seem to generalize women as being overall b*tchy whiners. For example (obviously he's saying this with sarcasm): http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2291907&postcount=135 Thanks, SG - obviously, I hadn't seen that...does seem to be in the category of "Things that make you say hmmmmmmm"Point I was trying to make in the quote posted by SG was that there were obviously two camps that were firmly pitted against one another: One camp thought the OP was being disrespectful to his lady and she responded appropriately, another camp thinking that the reaction the OP got was over the top. It generally - not exclusively - lined up along gender lines, where the women rushed to the defence of their sister and the guys backed up the guy. Hence, my take on the thread was that many (again, not all) of the women criticizing the OP were taking the tack that when there's a disagreement between a man and a woman, the male should bear the burden of responsibility regardless of the circumstances. I oversimplified it and tried (and obviously failed) to inject a little wry humor. As for me 'not liking' women or 'not respecting women as people,' well, what can I say? Though I didn't meet anyone who I cared to spend the rest of my life with, I did meet some very good women and some (not all) remain decent friends to this day and we're still in contact.... I'd like to reiterate, though, that I did meet some genuinely decent people. Online dating is not all doom and gloom, feminized men and women with hair on their chests or stalkers/gold-diggers/clingy types. There are, surprisingly, some really decent people online and IME they out-numbered the aforementioned types by a wide, wide margin. Most of them would be very at home here at LS. Honest, genuine, caring, reasonable and intelligent individuals. If you feel that's somehow disrespectful, well, you're entitled to your opinion. And I'll leave it at that.
HsMomma Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 Loving women and having respect for and liking them, are different things. As previously stated, this was in reference to "some" not "all" of his posts.[/QUOTE] And, based on StarGazer's example, you were right - there was assuredly that tone in that example, TBF.
sally4sara Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 Well, the term "stubborn" didn't come up, but in fact I have seen (in the past - I'm not on any dating sites anymore) the phrase "strong and independent" used plenty of times.And who, perchance, is this mythical "they"? The mythical "they" is men who loose their temper when questioned. In their mind, it is the fault of the woman who questions them. They need a follower type partner. Personally, I'm attracted to strong and intelligent women. I just find that when they have to splash it all over their profile, it's telling me that they like others to think they're strong and independent but they may not believe it themselves. Those who truly are - and I've met plenty of them, wonderful women all - don't have to advertise it.Now THAT makes sense. So you're saying it's basically a filter to weed out those who prey on those who maybe aren't quite so strong? Yes, that is what I'm saying. That is why out of all the words one can use to describe themselves as strong and independent, those are the two most commonly used. The safety course she took was right around the time where online dating was the new thing. The exact phrase they advised women to use was "strong and independent".
Star Gazer Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 I do respect and enjoy many of Thaddeus's threads and posts and hope that he continues posting as such. Me too.
Woggle Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 Most women who embody those traits don't go around shouting it from the rooftop. I have found that women who make a point to advertise these traits just use this as an excuse to be obnoxious and damn near impossible to get along with.
donnamaybe Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 Most women who embody those traits don't go around shouting it from the rooftop. I have found that women who make a point to advertise these traits just use this as an excuse to be obnoxious and damn near impossible to get along with. Yep. Sounds JUST like my sister!
BentSpine Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 Also, OP didn't say the women of the site he is using described themselves as strong, independent, and stubborn. One can be any of these three qualities without being all of them.I don't get off on confrontation. I prefer peace & quiet with my partner rather than a hot debate. The same way I don't want to butt heads but instead want a flexible partner, which is why I, NOT the innocent Original Poster, added "stubborn". Looking back, adding "stubborn" didn't contribute to the tread. My bad.
BUENG1 Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 I'm not dating anyone right now but there was a time that I did the online dating thing for a while. Contrary to many other people's experiences, it was generally pretty positive. Though I didn't meet anyone who I cared to spend the rest of my life with, I did meet some very good women and some (not all) remain decent friends to this day and we're still in contact. But I did notice something in some profiles, combined with meeting them in person, that got me thinking. In a number of profiles, the women in question were very clear that they thought of themselves as "strong and independent." Now, my first though was that those who really are strong and independent don't need to wave it like a battle flag. And I also thought that maybe they were saying that because they didn't want to be labelled as a gold-digger, that they had their own career and resources and whatnot. (That's another thread entirely anyway.) But what I found was that those who put that at the top of their profile were, well, just plain grumpy. They kept going out of their way to prove how strong and independent they were and, frankly, just came across as kinda b!tchy. Has anyone else had this sort of experience? Ladies, if you've done the online dating thing, have you used "strong and independent" (or similar) in your profile, and what's the response been like? Well I don't think putting this in your profile is "waiving it like a battle flag", if thats the only significant thing they put in their profile well then yea then its time to move on because this is probably putting a spin on being abrasive, selfish etc. I think you would have to meet someone to tell whether this is just a cover for negative personality trait. You can observe whether they speak about this as a positive or don't really speak about it all, or if they speak about it as a negative(everybody hates me cause I'm too strong etc).
V.Vixen Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 I have that I am very independent on my profile. It's true in my case, and I am very much a person who needs to be given my space. Somehow, I still manage to get a lot of clingers. I like to state that I am independent, not so that I can boast about it, but so that it is known. I despise clingy men, so I see it as a warning of my personality type. I have a life that I like to keep separate from my relationships.. and that's all I am trying to say when I use the word 'independent'. I think the tone that a woman sets off when she uses that phrase makes all the difference too. I have great appreciation for an independent man, and just independent thinkers in general.
sunshinegirl Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 Better, IMO, to demonstrate strength and independence than to proclaim it. It's like bragging that you're really really humble.
V.Vixen Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 I don't claim strength... to me that has to be shown. I guess I see independent as a personality trait more than something to brag about.
V.Vixen Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 "Me: eclectic, a walking contradiction in most aspects of life. A lot to handle, but a lot of fun. A thinker, a huge goof, a chameleon, independent. I am generally happy with life, and try to make the best of even the toughest times. I am indeed a quirky girl, so I'm not afraid to admit my downfalls!" there is a snippet from my profile.. I think as long as you don't harp on the independence part of it, it doesn't come off as a red flag to being "bitchy".
Trialbyfire Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 Maybe this thread needs a definition for bitchy.
JustLooking123 Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 "Me: eclectic, a walking contradiction in most aspects of life. A lot to handle, but a lot of fun. A thinker, a huge goof, a chameleon, independent. I am generally happy with life, and try to make the best of even the toughest times. I am indeed a quirky girl, so I'm not afraid to admit my downfalls!" there is a snippet from my profile.. I think as long as you don't harp on the independence part of it, it doesn't come off as a red flag to being "bitchy". Honestly, the "independent" slipped in there doesn't sound bitchy, but calling yourself "a lot to handle" and "a walking contradiction" does ring some high-maintenance warning bells. But then again, this is coming from a female; the dudes might interpret it differently.
V.Vixen Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 Honestly, the "independent" slipped in there doesn't sound bitchy, but calling yourself "a lot to handle" and "a walking contradiction" does ring some high-maintenance warning bells. But then again, this is coming from a female; the dudes might interpret it differently. I don't have a problem getting emails from interested men who say they like my profile, so I don't think it bothers them too much. ( 82 men have me on their favorites list on plentyoffish.com.. haha!) I just state the facts! That is also just a small portion of a very sarcastic profile.. and the sarcasm is noted.
New Again Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 I'm not dating anyone right now but there was a time that I did the online dating thing for a while. Contrary to many other people's experiences, it was generally pretty positive. Though I didn't meet anyone who I cared to spend the rest of my life with, I did meet some very good women and some (not all) remain decent friends to this day and we're still in contact. But I did notice something in some profiles, combined with meeting them in person, that got me thinking. In a number of profiles, the women in question were very clear that they thought of themselves as "strong and independent." Now, my first though was that those who really are strong and independent don't need to wave it like a battle flag. And I also thought that maybe they were saying that because they didn't want to be labelled as a gold-digger, that they had their own career and resources and whatnot. (That's another thread entirely anyway.) But what I found was that those who put that at the top of their profile were, well, just plain grumpy. They kept going out of their way to prove how strong and independent they were and, frankly, just came across as kinda b!tchy. Has anyone else had this sort of experience? Ladies, if you've done the online dating thing, have you used "strong and independent" (or similar) in your profile, and what's the response been like? This seems like an interesting thread, but I'm too tired to read the whole thing So to answer the OP, I have done the online dating thing, and I have not described myself as "strong and independent" or anything to that effect. My profile info was very short actually. Beyond the typical name, age, etc. I focused on describing what I'm looking for in a guy, and I left it pretty short and sweet, and hopefully a little funny also. I said very little about myself, other than mentioning a couple of activities I participate in that are important to me and that I think speak to what kind of person I am. I had a pretty good experience, but that may be because I don't take the online dating thing too seriously. I just used it as a tool to meet more guys, and I spent very little time with emails and so on, beyond to set up dates. Stating that you're strong and independent is just another way of "advertising" yourself and probably meant to attract a certain type of guy. Of course, "strong and independent" is open to interpretation, as you found for yourself.
LucreziaBorgia Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 The way I see it, it means "I can support myself, defend myself, and will not be emotionally dependent." Bitchy seems to me to be more of a sense of entitlement where the woman expects to be supported, defended and emotionally dependent and have her man be emotionally dependent on her.
HsMomma Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 The way I see it, it means "I can support myself, defend myself, and will not be emotionally dependent." Bitchy seems to me to be more of a sense of entitlement where the woman expects to be supported, defended and emotionally dependent and have her man be emotionally dependent on her. Exactly. But, I would add to the "bitchy" part of it - a sense that however SHE sees the world is the ONLY way to see it, and by God if you don't agree, well, she'll just put you right in your little place.
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