Thaddeus Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 I'm not dating anyone right now but there was a time that I did the online dating thing for a while. Contrary to many other people's experiences, it was generally pretty positive. Though I didn't meet anyone who I cared to spend the rest of my life with, I did meet some very good women and some (not all) remain decent friends to this day and we're still in contact. But I did notice something in some profiles, combined with meeting them in person, that got me thinking. In a number of profiles, the women in question were very clear that they thought of themselves as "strong and independent." Now, my first though was that those who really are strong and independent don't need to wave it like a battle flag. And I also thought that maybe they were saying that because they didn't want to be labelled as a gold-digger, that they had their own career and resources and whatnot. (That's another thread entirely anyway.) But what I found was that those who put that at the top of their profile were, well, just plain grumpy. They kept going out of their way to prove how strong and independent they were and, frankly, just came across as kinda b!tchy. Has anyone else had this sort of experience? Ladies, if you've done the online dating thing, have you used "strong and independent" (or similar) in your profile, and what's the response been like?
The Collector Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 I think it's code for bossy and selfish, but bitchy is probably in there somewhere too.
Star Gazer Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 I've described myself in a similar fashion (but without necessarily using those exact words), and never had any problems with men because of that. That said, I'm not sure most women who say they are "strong and independent" actually are either one of those qualities. MOST women would say they are strong and independent (who's going to say they're weak and needy/dependent? ), but obviously not all of them are.
OpenBook Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 No, I have never used "strong and independent" to describe myself in my online dating profiles. The whole point of a profile (for a female) is to attract men. And as much as men say they like those qualities in a woman, I have found it to be untrue. If they like a woman, they want her to be a little vulnerable and in need of rescuing, so that they can swoop in and be The Little Lady's Hero. I have learned through hard-won experience never to underestimate this drive in men. As you said, it is a turnoff to men if a woman flaunts her strength and independence like a badge of honor.
sally4sara Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 I always thought it was a heads up. It would tell any guy who desires a total follower for a partner to keep looking elsewhere. It would tell a guy who likes an equal for a partner that she isn't looking for someone to carry her along and to contact her. It would let a guy looking for a victim know she won't take abuse. I think if you're going to go the online dating route, you shouldn't judge without knowing them better. Also, its funny that you might assume the worst without thinking of yourself as perhaps - being grumpy. Try all that seem appealing IMO. Otherwise, what is the point of using this method?
redhighheels Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 It could be. There are a lot of women, particularly young ones, who equate strenght and independence with standing up for yourself in a loud and obnoxious manner. When it comes to online dating, I'm always wary of this type of descriptions. People who have certain qualities don't feel the need to point them out, they just come to light over time. It has to do with not pointing out the obvious.. that kind of thing.
Trialbyfire Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 Thaddeus, there's a strong element of misogyny in some of your posts. Do women threaten you? Do you have any respect for women, as people?
Author Thaddeus Posted July 24, 2009 Author Posted July 24, 2009 Thaddeus, there's a strong element of misogyny in some of your posts. Do women threaten you? Do you have any respect for women, as people?Not my intent, I was just relating a couple of experiences and wanted to see if others had similar experiences. No more, no less.
Trialbyfire Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 Not my intent, I was just relating a couple of experiences and wanted to see if others had similar experiences. No more, no less. I've never internet dated, so I can't give you my experiences on this but it stands to reason that amongst hundreds of thousands of people, you're going to have many fakirs. Same goes with real life. Words to actions are meaningful. Words alone or actions alone, aren't necessarily so. When words state one thing and actions state another, there's obvious conflict, thus can't be trusted until both are in lock-step.
BentSpine Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 Now, my first though was that those who really are strong and independent don't need to wave it like a battle flag.I share your view on the matter. To me it appears as if they are trying to convince themselves. It's easy to be strong/unaffected when you don't care. But I want to be able to influence my woman, so she cannot be beyond affection from me. But if outside factors in general don't affect her, this being equivalent to her being "strong", I in particular wouldn't be able to either. Hence women that describe themselves as strong, independent, stubborn, are a no-go for me.
donnamaybe Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 I'm strong and independent, but my sister (the antagonistic one I've written threads about) also considers herself such. But, yes. She's just plain bitchy.
GorillaTheater Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 I'm strong and independent, but my sister (the antagonistic one I've written threads about) also considers herself such. But, yes. She's just plain bitchy. I have no online dating experience, so I'll use my experience on this board as an example. Women like you and several others here do indeed strike me as strong and independent, not because you make a frequent point of mentioning how strong and independent you are (I understand and agree with Thadd's point in that respect) but because you demonstrate it through your posts. There are, however, others who DO make a point of talking about how strong and independent they are (or use similar language to that effect) that yes, merely come across as bitchy and hence very unattractive.
angie2443 Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 I always thought it was a heads up. It would tell any guy who desires a total follower for a partner to keep looking elsewhere. It would tell a guy who likes an equal for a partner that she isn't looking for someone to carry her along and to contact her. It would let a guy looking for a victim know she won't take abuse. I think this makes sense. If I were making a profile and liked to go out all the time, I wouldn't describe myselfe as someone who likes many quite nights at home. I would attract the wrong person if I did.
Touche Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 I've never done internet dating either but if I did I might describe myself that way, simply because I used to be the biggest doormat and would not want to attract a domineering type. Been there, done that.
Lizzie60 Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 I've had a profile of a few dating site.. that would read: I am an amazing cook, very clean lady who like to take care of my man. I love sports. My interests are numerous.. fishing, canooing, motorcycling (I own a Harley). Oh .. and I have a vehicle (Dodge Ram).
sally4sara Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 I share your view on the matter. To me it appears as if they are trying to convince themselves. It's easy to be strong/unaffected when you don't care. But I want to be able to influence my woman, so she cannot be beyond affection from me. But if outside factors in general don't affect her, this being equivalent to her being "strong", I in particular wouldn't be able to either. Hence women that describe themselves as strong, independent, stubborn, are a no-go for me. If you desire a woman who is easily influenced by outside factors because it means you can influence her too, you have to be prepared for her to be influenced in ways you might not like. Will you be able to let her out of your sight? You know the saying of nothing easily had is worth having - right? Also, OP didn't say the women of the site he is using described themselves as strong, independent, and stubborn. One can be any of these three qualities without being all of them. What I've found is that men who avoid women who describe themselves this way, are often not so strong themselves. That is why they fear a woman who thinks for herself. They know she will ask why a lot and they are prone to tantrums when they don't easily get their way or have to explain why their way is the prudent one. There was a safety course one of my cousins took for women and they talked about online dating. It advised women to use the independent/strong description due to the fact that they would be meeting strange men who might use the service to victimize women. They might not choose a woman they don't see as an easy target. I think that is why you see those two qualities on dating sites so often.
Author Thaddeus Posted July 24, 2009 Author Posted July 24, 2009 IAlso, OP didn't say the women of the site he is using described themselves as strong, independent, and stubborn. One can be any of these three qualities without being all of them.Well, the term "stubborn" didn't come up, but in fact I have seen (in the past - I'm not on any dating sites anymore) the phrase "strong and independent" used plenty of times.That is why they fear a woman who thinks for herself.And who, perchance, is this mythical "they"? Personally, I'm attracted to strong and intelligent women. I just find that when they have to splash it all over their profile, it's telling me that they like others to think they're strong and independent but they may not believe it themselves. Those who truly are - and I've met plenty of them, wonderful women all - don't have to advertise it.There was a safety course one of my cousins took for women and they talked about online dating. It advised women to use the independent/strong description due to the fact that they would be meeting strange men who might use the service to victimize women. They might not choose a woman they don't see as an easy target. I think that is why you see those two qualities on dating sites so often.Now THAT makes sense. So you're saying it's basically a filter to weed out those who prey on those who maybe aren't quite so strong?
Ruby Slippers Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 I've never done Internet dating, so can't comment on how people present themselves in profiles, but these days, I think highlighting strength and independence is a way of trying to let the guy know that you're not the dreaded clingy and needy. I have browsed some personal ads for their (endless) entertainment value, and noticed that most people write the same old recycled crap, using whatever catch phrases are in at the time. The truth is that most of us, both male and female, can be strong, independent, clingy, and needy at different times, for different reasons. I would imagine the grumpiness you're encountering has to do with the mentality of Internet daters in general (cynical after going through dozens of ads/potentials/flakes), not the "strong and independent" self-designation.
Trialbyfire Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 There was a safety course one of my cousins took for women and they talked about online dating. It advised women to use the independent/strong description due to the fact that they would be meeting strange men who might use the service to victimize women. They might not choose a woman they don't see as an easy target. I think that is why you see those two qualities on dating sites so often.Whoah, that makes a hella' lot of sense! Abusive men or control freaks will steer clear from these traits.
Star Gazer Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 I have no online dating experience, so I'll use my experience on this board as an example. Women like you and several others here do indeed strike me as strong and independent, not because you make a frequent point of mentioning how strong and independent you are (I understand and agree with Thadd's point in that respect) but because you demonstrate it through your posts. There are, however, others who DO make a point of talking about how strong and independent they are (or use similar language to that effect) that yes, merely come across as bitchy and hence very unattractive. Yeah, I usually don't hear those who are strong and independent going around telling everyone they are such. Usually, you demonstrate who you are without labeling yourself...
samspade Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 I'm not dating anyone right now but there was a time that I did the online dating thing for a while. Contrary to many other people's experiences, it was generally pretty positive. Though I didn't meet anyone who I cared to spend the rest of my life with, I did meet some very good women and some (not all) remain decent friends to this day and we're still in contact. But I did notice something in some profiles, combined with meeting them in person, that got me thinking. In a number of profiles, the women in question were very clear that they thought of themselves as "strong and independent." Now, my first though was that those who really are strong and independent don't need to wave it like a battle flag. And I also thought that maybe they were saying that because they didn't want to be labelled as a gold-digger, that they had their own career and resources and whatnot. (That's another thread entirely anyway.) But what I found was that those who put that at the top of their profile were, well, just plain grumpy. They kept going out of their way to prove how strong and independent they were and, frankly, just came across as kinda b!tchy. Has anyone else had this sort of experience? Ladies, if you've done the online dating thing, have you used "strong and independent" (or similar) in your profile, and what's the response been like? It doesn't necessarily mean bitchy, but it usually is code for masculine traits. A woman can be strong and independent but still feminine; unfortunately, a lot of women adopt masculine traits and assume that their "strength" intimidates men (when actually it just turns them off). The flip side, for a guy, would be "I'm a nice, understanding, new age guy..." read: I'm a feminized man. A lot of marriages occur between masculine women and feminine men, especially in their 30s when they're ready to settle.
samspade Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 What I've found is that men who avoid women who describe themselves this way, are often not so strong themselves. That is why they fear a woman who thinks for herself. The opposite is actually true. The stronger the man, the greater his ability to pass on a domineering woman. It's not fear, rather, it's that women who behave like men are unattractive. Pushover, effeminate, and desperate men who think they'll never do better usually settle for type A chicks. I've never done internet dating either, but I'd advise anyone who does to tread carefully. You're going to find a lot of bitter women and a lot of wussy men. Use your wits and date in the real world....
Author Thaddeus Posted July 24, 2009 Author Posted July 24, 2009 I would imagine the grumpiness you're encountering has to do with the mentality of Internet daters in general (cynical after going through dozens of ads/potentials/flakes), not the "strong and independent" self-designation. I'd advise anyone who does to tread carefully. You're going to find a lot of bitter women and a lot of wussy men. Use your wits and date in the real world....Two (of the many) reasons I don't online date anymore! I'd like to reiterate, though, that I did meet some genuinely decent people. Online dating is not all doom and gloom, feminized men and women with hair on their chests or stalkers/gold-diggers/clingy types. There are, surprisingly, some really decent people online and IME they out-numbered the aforementioned types by a wide, wide margin. Most of them would be very at home here at LS. Honest, genuine, caring, reasonable and intelligent individuals.
HsMomma Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 I've never done the online dating thing, either, but I do tend to agree with the others here who have said that most women who truly are strong & independent don't around using those words about themselves. I also don't see those words as bad things in & of themselves (neither the words nor the traits) - I think, like anything else, if the strong/independent side is tempered by the loving/gentle side, a man gets the best of both worlds. TBF, I have to ask about your comment as to Thadd's posts sounding misogynistic - maybe I'm a bit blind here, but it seems to me that most (I am trying really hard to practice what I preach about saying "all", "none" or any other overgeneralization ) of his posts seem to be more toward the fact that he likes women. Could you clarify what you meant?
Star Gazer Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 TBF, I have to ask about your comment as to Thadd's posts sounding misogynistic - maybe I'm a bit blind here, but it seems to me that most (I am trying really hard to practice what I preach about saying "all", "none" or any other overgeneralization ) of his posts seem to be more toward the fact that he likes women. Could you clarify what you meant? I'm not sure I'd call his posts misogynistic, but he does seem to generalize women as being overall b*tchy whiners. For example (obviously he's saying this with sarcasm): http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2291907&postcount=135
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