I can't see myself dating anyone :(

[Sam Spade]

There's a difference between defending your choices and imposing your own framework onto everyone else. Just as there's a difference between being comfortable with your choices and having no doubts whatsoever about them.

 

Back to the original point, the outcome still comes down to which way up your coin lands

 

There was an article by a 40+ woman that really made mt think about this lately. Basically her story is pretty ordinary - dating all her life, until *finally*, at the age of 41, she meets and marries *the one*. Success, story, right?

 

There are a couple of problems though, that she talks about.

1st, she really, really, realy, really wants to have kids. The problem is - she no longer can. So, now she's super miserable for not getting married sooner etc. and has a really hard time getting over the fact that she can't have kids.

 

Which brings another point - it is simply hard to believe that it takes 2 decades of dating to find a suitable partner. It is also hard to believe that he is that much better - like orders of magnitude - better than all the men she's encountered and dated before. Which begs the question, wouldn't she be happier if she married earlier, a slightly less perfect dude and live her dream of having kids and a happy family?

 

We'll never know, but the point is that she pretty much took having kids for granted, and essentially postponed starting a family until the last possible moment (but unfortunately overshot it). Either way, her choices are her choices, but the point is that she was comfortable with them - until she wasn't. Not much other insight came out of this (other than her recommendation for girls to freeze their eggs )

 

If getting mrried and living happily ever after was all about 'the one' (and which side the coin lands), the proportion of people who get married in every age group would be constant (i.e. to reflect the pure randomness of the process). However, you know that the majority of people get married in their 20s and 30s. So, you see where I'm going with this - it is hard to argue with a straight face that you meet 'the one' by accident - and that thie accident overwhelmingly tends to happen in people's childbearing years. So, of course there is element of luck, but most relationship still grow out of mutual commitment, rather out of miracolus alignment of the stars etc..

[Citizen Drawn]

It's not about "miraculous alignment of the stars"; it's about flipping your coin enough times so that eventually you end up with the right outcome. I don't think that's anything to do with the "one", it's about not giving up on finding someone that's suited to you just because you haven't had any luck with someone it past. Flip the coin again.

 

As for settling perhaps if she had kids earlier with a guy that made her unhappy she would have been pretty miserable about that too, and then, there are kids involved, so that's even worse.

 

If getting married is all about settling into something that suits you then you have, to all intents in purposes found "the one" However, if settling is about methodically getting married to anyone and having kids for the sake of it, then why not just marry the first person that shows any interest in you and have done with it?

[Sam Spade]

It's not about "miraculous alignment of the stars"; it's about flipping your coin enough times so that eventually you end up with the right outcome. I don't think that's anything to do with the "one", it's about not giving up on finding someone that's suited to you just because you haven't had any luck with someone it past. Flip the coin again.

 

As for settling perhaps if she had kids earlier with a guy that made her unhappy she would have been pretty miserable about that too, and then, there are kids involved, so that's even worse.

 

If getting married is all about settling into something that suits you then you have, to all intents in purposes found "the one" However, if settling is about methodically getting married to anyone and having kids for the sake of it, then why not just marry the first person that shows any interest in you and have done with it?

 

I'm not argying wiht nay above, just with the definition of what it means to find someone "suited to you". In my mind that's a very large territory, with many possible choices, rather than a daunting journey to take decades just so I could find someone unique (in a way that I can't even define, no less). Looking at all the girls I've dated (and known) within the last 15 years - all of them are comparable. Evaluating them as life partners, none of them possesses any special qualities that would make her more 'the one' than others (in fact - ironically, some of the ones I've loved the most, have been least suited to me but that's not the point). Maybe there are girls out there that would make me marginally happier, but even if so, i don't think this type of marginal improvement/payback would be worth it. I prefer to put my time to other uses .

[Citizen Drawn]

I'm not argying wiht nay above, just with the definition of what it means to find someone "suited to you". In my mind that's a very large territory, with many possible choices, rather than a daunting journey to take decades just so I could find someone unique (in a way that I can't even define, no less). Looking at all the girls I've dated (and known) within the last 15 years - all of them are comparable. Evaluating them as life partners, none of them possesses any special qualities that would make her more 'the one' than others (in fact - ironically, some of the ones I've loved the most, have been least suited to me but that's not the point). Maybe there are girls out there that would make me marginally happier, but even if so, i don't think this type of marginal improvement/payback would be worth it. I prefer to put my time to other uses .

 

Yes but for YOU it's a world full of choices which you are comfortable with. For SOME people it's like fitting a square peg into a round hole, they are simply not made in the same way and few people are compatible with them. I do not see what's so hard to fathom about this. You may as well argue these people should be genetically altered.

[Sam Spade]

Yes but for YOU it's a world full of choices which you are comfortable with. For SOME people it's like fitting a square peg into a round hole, they are simply not made in the same way and few people are compatible with them. I do not see what's so hard to fathom about this. You may as well argue these people should be genetically altered.

 

 

Hehe, maybe I'm the one who needs genetic alteration.

My personal experience has been that whenever I've perceived barriers towards establishing relationships in 80% of the cases these pariers have been function of my own issues rather than anything being 'wrong' with the other person. Of course, there is the reciprocal risk of your issues leading you to ignore incompatibilities. IN either case, overthinking doesn't help much.

 

Whatever feelings 'you' seek are already within you. To wait for someone with a very, very specific 'i don't know what' to let them out is foolish - or at least inefficient - IMO .

[PrincessOfDarkness]

I do not believe in "the one" or anything like that but I truly believe that some people have personalities that are just not compatible with many other people on even a very basic level. I am one of those people.

 

I rarely find even a friend that I can truly enjoy being with and who "gets me". Add to that even minimal physical attraction and I am probably talking about 98% of men being out of the question. If you add to that that few men are single at my age AND that they have to be at the right place at the right time to meet me AND that their interest has to be reciprocal hence you get a next to impossible probability.

 

Other people can find 80% of women attractive (I am saying men as I think men have an easier time feeling sexual attraction) and say be compatible with 60% of people and of course they will have much easier time finding a mate.

 

As for me, if I want a family, I will either have to accept being with someone who I truly have no desire of being with or go through life alone (which I have truly accepted).

[Isolde]

Thanks, Green. It's good to hear from you again!

 

Sam Spade, I agree that "Whatever feelings 'you' seek are already within you". I've already decided I don't want a partner to make me feel like a different person. I just want to share part of my life with someone--just like just about everyone else on this planet.

 

Princess of Darkness, I do believe everyone is compatible with a decent number of people but you are right that some way more than others.

 

As I said, I don't WANT to overanalyze this. I've tried to forget about boys, but it's impossible and honestly, I don't want to have to forget or repress anything, because to all intents and purposes there is nothing unhealthy about my thinking (at least, nothing more pathological than anyone else's way of thinking). Which leaves me... here, I guess.

[Sam Spade]

I do not believe in "the one" or anything like that but I truly believe that some people have personalities that are just not compatible with many other people on even a very basic level. I am one of those people.

 

I rarely find even a friend that I can truly enjoy being with and who "gets me". Add to that even minimal physical attraction and I am probably talking about 98% of men being out of the question. If you add to that that few men are single at my age AND that they have to be at the right place at the right time to meet me AND that their interest has to be reciprocal hence you get a next to impossible probability.

 

Other people can find 80% of women attractive (I am saying men as I think men have an easier time feeling sexual attraction) and say be compatible with 60% of people and of course they will have much easier time finding a mate.

 

As for me, if I want a family, I will either have to accept being with someone who I truly have no desire of being with or go through life alone (which I have truly accepted).

 

 

This is an unfortunate, and very real, possibility. Why do you think it is so hard to find someone who "gets you", and what exactly does that mean?

 

The answer really depends on how people understand compatibility. Some view it as a personal inventory of traits. Others - like me - view it as a process, something that you negotiate as you go along. So, in the absence of major dealbreakers, it is mostly a desire to work.

 

All that said, luck and circumstances still play huge role in all this, of course. Where I live it is pretty much impossible to find the educated worldly women that I'd ideally hang out with (and previously had, when I lived in actually civilized places ). It's either impossible, or it would take impossibly long and hard work to find them. And things would be even worse, if I wasn't in a top 50 city (which doesn't say much since in US anything beyond the top 10 is basically an overgrown village )

 

Anyway, I could choose either to accept that I'll never have exactly the kind of person I want, or I could adjust my expectations. Chosing the latter, resulted in a great girl, who, while not my imaginary ideal, I get along with and like very much just fine. MOre importantly - in spite of the huge differences in backgrounds and educations (and almost certainly - IQs), i feel like my gf "gets me" just fine. Maybe not all of the time, but most of the time.

 

I hope this does not come across as 'lecturing; - It is certainly not, and I understand the predicament, just mentioning all this because it is probably is not 100% objective reality - chaces are that is some perception involved. For the longest time I had the belief that I'm very unique and special (and therefore my girlfriend must be too), which simply cannot be true. I'm a pretty cool guy, and above average in many/most respects, but at the end of the day, I'm not THAT special. The point being that my ideal woman is probably about 2 feet outside of my actual league. Which in turn made me realise that it can't be that hard to find women to actually get along and be happy with. Which is where social skills and adjustment of expectations come into play. At the end of the day, I'm much happier then I would have been if I pursued some peculiar idea of a woman that I should be with.

 

So, I don't know. I've been on both sides of the fence, and "being true to yourself" is a pretty hard battle to lead if you're not 100% sure what are you doing (I wasn't).

[Isolde]

But your whole view is predicated on the assumption that one (whether male or female) has a fair number of people interested in them in the first place. It's not like I go around saying "you don't get me, so I'm not gonna date you." I have friends who don't completely get me and that's fine because we get each other enough to contribute to each other's lives in some way. I don't believe in soulmates and am not looking for such in an R.

 

I think that people either click or they don't, on a rather fundamental level, and that generally people click with those whose mindsets and values they understand. Beyond that, it's pretty negotiable IMO.

 

Guys often act like they don't think that I click with them; this is part of the reason why I think I'm not compatible with many people.

[Sam Spade]

But your whole view is predicated on the assumption that one (whether male or female) has a fair number of people interested in them in the first place. It's not like I go around saying "you don't get me, so I'm not gonna date you." I have friends who don't completely get me and that's fine because we get each other enough to contribute to each other's lives in some way. I don't believe in soulmates and am not looking for such in an R.

 

I think that people either click or they don't, on a rather fundamental level, and that generally people click with those whose mindsets and values they understand. Beyond that, it's pretty negotiable IMO.

 

Guys often act like they don't think that I click with them; this is part of the reason why I think I'm not compatible with many people.

 

 

Well, I've said it multiple times before - you certainly aren't a run-of-the mill chica, so it is bound to make it harder to connect with run-of-the mill guys. In this sense it really is a numbers issue at this point, and the numbers of those tha could appreciate your weirdness/grumpiness/introspectiveness simply don't stack in your favor. All you have to do is dye your hair blond, abandon all introspection and own identity, and be the girl that everybody else wants you to be/is used to . Okay, not funny at all . But that's why it is important to think hard about what's "negotiable" and what's simply desireable.

Two more of the reasons I don't plan on looking more (besides liking my gf ) include precisely 1) the major risk that even if you find your "ideal", they still need to also like you (dubious in my case, since my level of class seems to diminish with every year in the US) and 2) my own set of traits/peculiarities is inconsistent with what most girls expect. Not to mention that it is much easier to love someone who appreciates you (vs. somebody who is everything you imagined them to be, except they are ambivalent towards you or something).

 

 

As far as I'm concerned, all the guys that don't think you click with them are morons, and I'll beat them up - all of them .

 

All that said, you;'re still way too young to make any resolutions about what's up and what it's gona be

[Jimmy's_Brother]

I feel I can relate to the original post. I'm a guy who doesn't often feel connected to other people. People seem selfish and inconsiderate most of the time. Would really like to meet someone but haven't felt a connection with a good, honest, available, attractive girl for a looong time.

 

However, I'm not hopeless. Rather, I've decided as of tonight to simply try to stop worrying about thw whole mess and focus on the basics like school and work etc.

[PrincessOfDarkness]

Isolde, I have seen your picture before and have read many of your posts. You are gorgeous and intelligent and I think that the real problem is that you are in fact too good for these men. Being deep and introspective just doesn't cut it in today's dating world. To give you an example, I work in academia. In my department there are lots of women 30-45 that are single and can't find a guy for the life of them. In fact about 70% have stayed single for the 3 years that I have worked there. They are all brilliant scientists as well as able to hold deep, interesting and philosophical conversations. On the other hand ALL men in my department are married. All of them. And to make it worse, their wives don't even come close to matching their intellectual level (most are college drop outs) and lots of them are typical bimbos.

 

It seems like the demand for intellectual women is quite low unfortunately while for men it's a bonus (as long as they are not TOO weird). That's why SamSpade has an easier time finding girls than you do guys.

[IcemanJB]

OP, I've recently (as in the past couple weeks) made some serious attitude changes in my life. I guess to put it bluntly: I used to make "finding a woman" a high priority; now, it's definitely much lower on the list. I'm also 23 years old, and am now focusing on making MYSELF better all around, and just enjoying things as they come. Even that terrible first date I had last Sunday.

 

Ever since I took this attitude, it's like the pressure is off. I mentioned this to a female friend of mine, and she goes: "YES. I bet now that you're thinking like this, that girl will come into your life." haha. Maybe. Maybe not. I don't really care at this point.

 

Admittedly I can be quirky, I have a bit of a weird sense of humor, and I can count on one hand the number of girls that I have actually connected with. I feel as if we're in the same boat in that respect. I really think you'll be fine. Just hang in there.

[Sam Spade]

Isolde, I have seen your picture before and have read many of your posts. You are gorgeous and intelligent and I think that the real problem is that you are in fact too good for these men. Being deep and introspective just doesn't cut it in today's dating world. To give you an example, I work in academia. In my department there are lots of women 30-45 that are single and can't find a guy for the life of them. In fact about 70% have stayed single for the 3 years that I have worked there. They are all brilliant scientists as well as able to hold deep, interesting and philosophical conversations. On the other hand ALL men in my department are married. All of them. And to make it worse, their wives don't even come close to matching their intellectual level (most are college drop outs) and lots of them are typical bimbos.

 

It seems like the demand for intellectual women is quite low unfortunately while for men it's a bonus (as long as they are not TOO weird). That's why SamSpade has an easier time finding girls than you do guys.

 

 

Yeah, but I'd also suggest additional interpretation (although it still doesn't look pretty for anybody involved). It seems that men are less likely to mind to "marry down", while it seems hardly ever acceptable for women. This could really exacerbate the situation you describe. Let's face it - man or a woman, the second you recieve your PhD, if you want to date people of similar background, this means that your dating pool instantly excludes 98% of the population (I've sadly though about that, and I've actually looked it up!). And that's just based on this one criterion. Add attraction and basic desency - and the odds quickly become depressing. While I'd love to date a fellow academic, in my life I've encountered 1 that is dateable and i really liked (and she dumped me, plus she doesn't count because she'd work for the industry ).

Of course, there is the issue of hot graduate students at conferences . But, they're only good for the mythological conference hook up because given how close to impossible it is for two academics to find a job in the same city, such relationships rarely last. While such relationships between peers happen often, they always start in graduate school (or were married before that) and couples find a way to make it work - and many don't succeed.

[monkey00]

Since I've gotten this far in the thread, I'll add this:

 

1) I have zero dating opportunities right now, for several reasons, some of them out of my control; and

2) I'm extremely picky when it comes to guys, in several areas, BUT, some of this is in my head, as I don't yet know what I want and need in an R.

3) I have never had an R so I don't even understand how this works at all.

 

It doesn't really take a mathematician to realize that something has to change before I meet a guy I can spend some time with. Thing is, if condition 1) is met, 2) is lessened, as I like to give people a chance before deciding if there is potential. So, it's kind of the case that 1) needs to happen before I can work on figuring out what I want and need and the difference between those two things.

 

SG once said something very apt. She said I need to stop thinking and start doing.

 

But I can't do anything; therefore, I come here and make posts like this.

 

Oh yeah, did I mention patience isn't my strong suit?

 

You know when I was younger Isolde I had a similar list. I was a late bloomer and often did not get women. I had female friends here and there but wasn't too social and was quiet. I was also the intellectual/logical type that couldn't get out of my thick head for one minute to act on instincts.

 

SG is right about that, action is more powerful than thought. Maybe for you it might take some time, or years to develop a new mindset/thought of pace when it comes down to the opposite sex. Your first date/interaction with a guy/R that comes around and every other one thereafter is experience and wisdom that will teach you a lot.

 

I say go out there and increase your opportunities. Join clubs, try speed dating, online dating even, make friends, interact with the boys, etc.

[Isolde]

Isolde, I have seen your picture before and have read many of your posts. You are gorgeous and intelligent and I think that the real problem is that you are in fact too good for these men. Being deep and introspective just doesn't cut it in today's dating world. To give you an example, I work in academia. In my department there are lots of women 30-45 that are single and can't find a guy for the life of them. In fact about 70% have stayed single for the 3 years that I have worked there. They are all brilliant scientists as well as able to hold deep, interesting and philosophical conversations. On the other hand ALL men in my department are married. All of them. And to make it worse, their wives don't even come close to matching their intellectual level (most are college drop outs) and lots of them are typical bimbos.

 

It seems like the demand for intellectual women is quite low unfortunately while for men it's a bonus (as long as they are not TOO weird). That's why SamSpade has an easier time finding girls than you do guys.

 

There IS some truth in what you say about educated women having more difficulty than educated men.

 

But, I refuse to believe that any woman should just accept this as her lot.

[Isolde]

You know when I was younger Isolde I had a similar list. I was a late bloomer and often did not get women. I had female friends here and there but wasn't too social and was quiet. I was also the intellectual/logical type that couldn't get out of my thick head for one minute to act on instincts.

 

SG is right about that, action is more powerful than thought. Maybe for you it might take some time, or years to develop a new mindset/thought of pace when it comes down to the opposite sex. Your first date/interaction with a guy/R that comes around and every other one thereafter is experience and wisdom that will teach you a lot.

 

I say go out there and increase your opportunities. Join clubs, try speed dating, online dating even, make friends, interact with the boys, etc.

 

It's not like I'm on square one; I have gone on a number of dates before, though none recently. And speed/online dating is not for me! But yeah... experience and interactions are better than sitting around doing nothing.